Robotech and HG License Debates

[Macross007]

Nope, the article is incorrect at best. HG has no copyright on Macross. Copyrights cannot be licensed under Japanese law. HG cannot have those rights, period. HG can have a license to distribute SDFM and has merchandising rights to SDFM and (supposedly) on DYRL at most. HG copyrighted the name Macross in several countries.

I am not even sure if HG can edit the footage of the Macross saga at will without permission of the copyrightholders. Altough in HG's defence they can always claim that RT is a rather inacruate dub attempt.

But these lunatic Robotech idiots keep lying about it : http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31

[Gubaba]

Yeah, I have read that thread too. I don't want to go into details, but I am amazed of how some of these Robotech idiots are saying the VF-1 runs on protoculture when Tommy Yune said HIMSELF that thing runs on fusion power. Also, these same cretins refuse to acknowledge the OSM (Original Source Materials) when Carl Macek HIMSELF used them to "create" his crappy ripoff. Can't believe you have the patience to deal with them. Can't believe you are still on the Robotech forums too.

One thing I don't understand (or I might've understood when I was a kid, but forgot)...why does Bodolzaa shout out "PROTOCULTURE!" when he sees Rick and Lisa kissing?

Or is randomly shouting out the name of a fuel source common in the Robotech universe? Is it the RT version of "Yack Deculture"?

[Macross007]

One thing I don't understand (or I might've understood when I was a kid, but forgot)...why does Bodolzaa shout out "PROTOCULTURE!" when he sees Rick and Lisa kissing?

Or is randomly shouting out the name of a fuel source common in the Robotech universe? Is it the RT version of "Yack Deculture"?

WHAT !?!?!? Macek did not change that part of the script !?!?!? No wonder why some Robotech fans refuse to acknowledge the OSM (Original Source Materials).

Edited May 26, 2009 by Macross007

[Gubaba]

WHAT !?!?!? Macek did not change that part of the script !?!?!? No wonder why some Robotech fans refuse to acknowledge the OSM (Original Source Materials).

Nope, he didn't. And "Protoculture" doesn't, I believe, become a fuel until the Mospeada generation.

[kanedaestes]

No it was a fuel from the start.

[Einherjar]

Nope, he didn't. And "Protoculture" doesn't, I believe, become a fuel until the Mospeada generation.

Didn't they decide to turn Khyron into a Protoculture fuel addict rather than a guy who loves booze in the later episodes and novel? Maybe Bodolzaa needed a wired boost after seeing Rick and Lisa kiss.

[Gubaba]

No it was a fuel from the start.

Really? I don't ever recall them referring to it as such during the Macross Saga. But it's been twenty-five years since I've watched it...I may be misremembering.

Anyway, if it was always a fuel, why did Rick and Lisa's kiss remind him of it?

Or was it like, "Damn, two people kissing...this is dull...CRAP IN A HAT! I left the Protoculture Matrix running back at my apartment! My Protoculture bill's gonna be HUGE this month!"

[Seto Kaiba]

Nope, the article is incorrect at best. HG has no copyright on Macross. Copyrights cannot be licensed under Japanese law. HG cannot have those rights, period. HG can have a license to distribute SDFM and has merchandising rights to SDFM and (supposedly) on DYRL at most. HG copyrighted the name Macross in several countries.

The article doesn't say anything about copyrights... all it says is that Harmony Gold wasn't affected by the outcome of the lawsuits over the intellectual property rights to Macross. Since they never had those rights to begin with, that's actually a true statement... the lawsuit did not affect the film distribution rights or the merchandising rights.

I am not even sure if HG can edit the footage of the Macross saga at will without permission of the copyrightholders. Altough in HG's defence they can always claim that RT is a rather inacruate dub attempt.

So long as they have the film distribution rights, they can release it outside of Japan and edit it at their discretion.

I'm sad... they locked my post after I got in my parting shot at Maverick_LSC.

[Gubaba]

The article doesn't say anything about copyrights... all it says is that Harmony Gold wasn't affected by the outcome of the lawsuits over the intellectual property rights to Macross. Since they never had those rights to begin with, that's actually a true statement... the lawsuit did not affect the film distribution rights or the merchandising rights.

So long as they have the film distribution rights, they can release it outside of Japan and edit it at their discretion.

I'm sad... they locked my post after I got in my parting shot at Maverick_LSC.

So the "Who Killed Focker" thread they let go on and on and on as two members hurl abuse at each other, but the legality thread they close immediately? I guess we know where their priorities are...

And hey! Are you banned yet?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for THAT discussion...

Mod A: "Seto's getting annoying. Let's ban him."

Mod B: "But...but...he's one of the only members here who actually KNOWS anything!"

[Seto Kaiba]

And hey! Are you banned yet?

Oddly... no, my account is still fully active.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for THAT discussion...

Mod A: "Seto's getting annoying. Let's ban him."

Mod B: "But...but...he's one of the only members here who actually KNOWS anything!"

Oh, the moderators there haven't kept it a secret that they want to get rid of me.

Seifrietti Weisse told me flat out that he considers me the site's worst troublemaker, and that he thinks the site would be a lot better off without me. I'm fairly sure Maverick_LSC is in the same camp, which means the only moderator who's really not actively looking for an excuse to ban me is MEMO1DOMINION.

[Gubaba]

Oh, the moderators there haven't kept it a secret that they want to get rid of me.

Seifrietti Weisse told me flat out that he considers me the site's worst troublemaker, and that he thinks the site would be a lot better off without me. I'm fairly sure Maverick_LSC is in the same camp, which means the only moderator who's really not actively looking for an excuse to ban me is MEMO1DOMINION.

Ah, so the conversation would really go something like this:

Mod A: "Seto's getting annoying. Let's ban him."

Mod B: "And he's always posting over at MacrossWorld."

MOD C: BUT HE'S ONE OF THE ONLY MEMBERS WHO KNOWS ANYTHING AROUND HERE! HEHEHE.

[Macross007]

Ah, so the conversation would really go something like this:

Mod A: "Seto's getting annoying. Let's ban him."

Mod B: "And he's always posting over at MacrossWorld."

MOD C: BUT HE'S ONE OF THE ONLY MEMBERS WHO KNOWS ANYTHING AROUND HERE! HEHEHE.

You made my week sir. :lol: :lol:

[Einherjar]

Oh, the moderators there haven't kept it a secret that they want to get rid of me.

Seifrietti Weisse told me flat out that he considers me the site's worst troublemaker, and that he thinks the site would be a lot better off without me. I'm fairly sure Maverick_LSC is in the same camp, which means the only moderator who's really not actively looking for an excuse to ban me is MEMO1DOMINION.

Besides MEMO1DOMINION who actually attempts to do something for the series and fandom, most of the people there seem like useless ungrateful fans. Their situation may be unique, but would it kill them to contribute something more worthwhile besides X vs. Y or why didn't G do R despite being a borrowed animation problem? They must rely on people like Seto in gathering/translating material about Macross so that they can give it the Robotech treatment or some strange association with Robotech and take pride in keeping it relevant. You could say they're just using you to get all the "inside information" they're too lazy to find themselves, because Harmony Gold and Palladium aren't as reliable anymore.

You know the saying "Ignorance is bliss," maybe they're just waiting to get rid of you and eventually call everything labeled "Macross" as non-canon and other nonsense as soon as Robotech makes its triumph return.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Einherjar

[Bri]

The article doesn't say anything about copyrights... all it says is that Harmony Gold wasn't affected by the outcome of the lawsuits over the intellectual property rights to Macross. Since they never had those rights to begin with, that's actually a true statement... the lawsuit did not affect the film distribution rights or the merchandising rights.

[...]

What I am refering to was the folowing part:

"The litigation in Japan involving Tatsunoko, Big West and Studio Nue does not affect Harmony Gold or its licensees. Harmony Gold is not a party to any legal proceedings. Furthermore, the lawsuit, which was tried in front of a Japanese court, only relates to rights in Japan. Since Harmony Gold’s worldwide rights to Macross exclude Japan, a Japanese judgment does not apply to us."

The rights in question in Japan were the copyrights. Those extend to the US through the Berne convention so the article was incorrect in stating it was about Japanese rights only. The outcome of the lawsuit gave Tatsunoko economic rights to SDF Macross without those rights, HGs license would look different.

[JB0]

Man, I remember when I was young and foolish, and I was on the RT.com forums.

And people were discussing the Yamato and Bandai Valks left and right.

Now the rules explicitly include "Posting commercial info is not allowed. This includes info about other stores, prices or products, or auction info (except if it's a store exclusive that's featured in the Robotech News). "

That's just sad. You can't talk about other people's products, and you can't even talk about THEIR products unless they're already talking about it officially.

Just to clarify, I KNEW they started deleting import merchandise discussions a long time ago, but not that they'd actually made it officially against the rules to discuss.

Edited May 27, 2009 by JB0

[Jasonc]

He used to work for RT.com, and was Tom Bateman's roommate.

In regards to me, no, I never worked for HG. Just doing a little research into the company can turn up all sorts of info on what they do, sister companies, and all the other non-anime related stuff. HG's biggest income, I don't know what is for sure, but what I did say is yes, HG does have quite a name as far as real estate. They also make money on the movies side of things, but I don't even know what all that is.

From what has been hinted to me by several HG staff members before, Robotech is like an orphaned boy who lives in a big house that sees him as the oddball, or black sheep of the family. While I'm sure it brings in some money from time to time, I don't think it's on a level that the company considers substantial.

Seto, if the mods decide to ban you, that'd be a travesty for them. Sefrette and Maverick are just mods who have the job cause they do as Steve and Tommy do, and support the franchise to a fault. I don't think there's anything in the TOU there that says you can't be annoying.

[Gubaba]

In regards to me, no, I never worked for HG.

Whoops! sorry about the mix-up...

But you were a moderator on RT.com, weren't you?

*blinks innocently* You mean moderators don't get paid?

*waits for drippingly sarcastic comment from >EXO< or Azrael*

[azrael]

*waits for drippingly sarcastic comment from >EXO< or Azrael*

Unlike the RT mods, we get paid in doggie treats...and some tan/brownish substance which Shawn makes us drink. Tastes like blood, sweat, melted toy plastic, and Graham's gunpower mix which is strangely addictive. Then we chase it down with beer. Shawn only gives out Yoshinol as yearly bonuses.

[Seto Kaiba]

They must rely on people like Seto in gathering/translating material about Macross so that they can give it the Robotech treatment or some strange association with Robotech and take pride in keeping it relevant.

Nah, these days they've gone back to the old standby of trying to divorce Robotech from its origins. Just look at that damn fool Treiz... trying to claim that even Harmony Gold's official line on the mecha of the series is wrong because it's based off of the Japanese specs.

You could say they're just using you to get all the "inside information" they're too lazy to find themselves, because Harmony Gold and Palladium aren't as reliable anymore.

Wait, they were reliable once?

Seto, if the mods decide to ban you, that'd be a travesty for them. Sefrette and Maverick are just mods who have the job cause they do as Steve and Tommy do, and support the franchise to a fault. I don't think there's anything in the TOU there that says you can't be annoying.

Eh, it's pretty much common knowledge that Steve and Tommy select moderators based not on who was best suited to the job, but who kissed the most ass and toed the company line the closest.

Really, between the asinine behavior of most of the moderators, the complete and utter lack of anything like new content, and the increasingly restrictive Terms of Use, it's no wonder the intelligent and knowledgeable people abandoned the site in droves starting in 2003. These days, if you take me out of the equation, you're left with a few occasional contributors who know what they're talking about, and a lot of frothy-mouthed baboons like Treiz, who couldn't spell his own name if you spotted him the T and the Z.

[Einherjar]

Wait, they were reliable once?

To fans that hanged to every word from HG and Palladium's spokesperson or "mechanical expert's" mouth, yes, but most of us know better. Now almost all of the experts are gone, even Macek, and the people left rarely talk about the specifics people want to know again and again. They're there more for the fans' business than anything. Meanwhile, fans are left rummaging through an official website that's been stagnant for years or buying overpriced RPG books and toys with the same quality they've always had.

Then there's the option to learn Japanese to understand official books that may have little to no bearing with Robotech canon, but gives the universe it a more modernized, fluid appearance. But even then the die-hards still refer to it as "non-canon" or "an alternate continuity" until official Robotech experts come around and put a label on it. Like the story they're still hanging on to is any more legitimate. So what's the point?

Edited May 27, 2009 by Einherjar

[VF5SS]

What kind of fans would honestly use a franchise's tabletop RPG for mechanical stats anyway? That's like buying guns based on how many hit points they take off in GTA4.

[sketchley]

Unlike the RT mods, we get paid in doggie treats...and some tan/brownish substance which Shawn makes us drink. Tastes like blood, sweat, melted toy plastic, and Graham's gunpower mix which is strangely addictive. Then we chase it down with beer. Shawn only gives out Yoshinol as yearly bonuses.

Ah... the life of a mod.*

Wait. You guys get doggie treats?!?! いいな

*Speaking as a moderator on another forum.

[Moly_Sigang]

As from what i understand from all these is that HG is a sub-licensee of Tatsunoko and that their rights to Macross is limited to what Tatsunoko own in SDF Macross TV series. The court ruling states that Tatsunoko only has the distribution rights and merchandising rights to SDF Macross while Big West/Studio Nue owns the whole Macross franchise. That said, Tatsunoko can't give HG something they don't legally own in the first place. Am i right?

[azrael]

Ah... the life of a mod.*

Wait. You guys get doggie treats?!?! いいな

As long as you don't ask what kind, what their made of, or where they come from...yes, "doggie" treats.

As from what i understand from all these is that HG is a sub-licensee of Tatsunoko and that their rights to Macross is limited to what Tatsunoko own in SDF Macross TV series. The court ruling states that Tatsunoko only has the distribution rights and merchandising rights to SDF Macross while Big West/Studio Nue owns the whole Macross franchise. That said, Tatsunoko can't give HG something they don't legally own in the first place. Am i right?

They are the legal owners of the SDF Macross animation reels so they can license that footage to HG. They do not have rights to the original story, character art or mecha art, which is the legal property of BW.

[Beltane70]

I still get the occasional laugh whenever a member by the name of Lord Khyron Kravshera comes on.

He's convinced that all of the Macross sequels are based solely off of DYRL's story because they follow its designs. He says that anyone that believes that they were able to repair the Macross after the final episode of SDF: M are morons because he feels that there was no possible way they could have done it in Earth's gravity. He also further claims that there wouldn't have been enough resources to build the Megaroad-01, rebuild Macross City, repair and refit the Macross, and rebuild Earth's cities in the time frame that the official continuity indicates.

I can actually tolerate Treiz even though I disagree with about 85% of the things he says.

[Einherjar]

Nah, these days they've gone back to the old standby of trying to divorce Robotech from its origins. Just look at that damn fool Treiz... trying to claim that even Harmony Gold's official line on the mecha of the series is wrong because it's based off of the Japanese specs.

Sounds like he cares more about pushing your buttons than getting into debates, Seto. Your responses are always informative, but he seems to take more pleasure in screwing with you than anything. I'm surprised you even bother going back there from time to time if they want to be that way, and not even throw down warnings or the ban hammer for that crap.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Einherjar

[Freiflug88]

He's convinced that all of the Macross sequels are based solely off of DYRL's story because they follow its designs. He says that anyone that believes that they were able to repair the Macross after the final episode of SDF: M are morons because he feels that there was no possible way they could have done it in Earth's gravity. He also further claims that there wouldn't have been enough resources to build the Megaroad-01, rebuild Macross City, repair and refit the Macross, and rebuild Earth's cities in the time frame that the official continuity indicates.

He must of forgotten about the Zentradi factory and I am sure destroying a fleet of 4 million giant-sized space ships is gonna leave plenty of scrap metal. I will admit it is kind of annoying to see some Zentradi be DYRL freakish green while others look plain human in Macross sequeals espessially when Macross DYRL is considered an in universe fictional drama.

Sounds like he cares more about pushing your buttons than getting into debates, Seto. Your responses are always informative, but he seems to take more pleasure in screwing with you than anything. I'm surprised you even bother going back there from time to time if they want to be that way, and not even throw down warnings or the ban hammer for that crap.

Trust me a lot of Robtoech fans take pleasure in screwing with Seto. I actually joined Robotech.com first and figured Seto as a know it all jackass who liked to toy with Robotech fans.

[Gubaba]

Trust me a lot of Robtoech fans take pleasure in screwing with Seto. I actually joined Robotech.com first and figured Seto as a know it all jackass who liked to toy with Robotech fans.

Well, he IS that...but he's also so much more!

[JB0]

He must of forgotten about the Zentradi factory and I am sure destroying a fleet of 4 million giant-sized space ships is gonna leave plenty of scrap metal.

That actually causes problems.

Most of that scrap isn't in a stable orbit. And we know that Zentradi ships can survive re-entry, since their wreckage has been shown on Earth.

So the Earth was razed by ray guns and afterwards gets a steady pelting of large meteors from all directions.

An early part of the recovery project should've been dedicated to stabilizing or safely disposing of debris.

(Though most of those 4 million ships didn't get wrecked. They folded out with the destruction of the flag ship and presumably connected with other fleets.)

[sketchley]

That actually causes problems.

Most of that scrap isn't in a stable orbit. And we know that Zentradi ships can survive re-entry, since their wreckage has been shown on Earth.

So the Earth was razed by ray guns and afterwards gets a steady pelting of large meteors from all directions.

An early part of the recovery project should've been dedicated to stabilizing or safely disposing of debris.

(Though most of those 4 million ships didn't get wrecked. They folded out with the destruction of the flag ship and presumably connected with other fleets.)

Not to mention that the captured Factory Satellite(s) was either originally meant to, or redesigned to process asteroids.

The Factory Satellite certainly is akin to a deus ex machina.

[Seto Kaiba]

Trust me a lot of Robtoech fans take pleasure in screwing with Seto. I actually joined Robotech.com first and figured Seto as a know it all jackass who liked to toy with Robotech fans.

Nah, most of the ones who enjoyed screwing with me seem to have all gotten the banhammer at one time or another and haven't been back to vex me since. The only one left is Treiz, who really isn't specifically targeting me, he's just using the message boards as an outlet for his stupidity. Oddly enough, there are quite a few members there who respect and value my opinion... made even stranger by the fact that many of them even LIKE me, despite my best efforts to offend them.

I'd take umbridge at that remark about me being a know-it-all jackass who likes to toy with Robotech fans... I most certainly do not like toying with Robotech fans! I prefer to regard them from a distance... like watching monkeys fling poo from behind the plexiglass windows at the zoo.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

I'd take umbridge at that remark about me being a know-it-all jackass who likes to toy with Robotech fans... I most certainly do not like toying with Robotech fans! I prefer to regard them from a distance... like watching monkeys fling poo from behind the plexiglass windows at the zoo.

Well...you DO post there more than most of us...which, by analogy, is kind of getting into the cage with the monkeys.

Funny about Treiz...I first heard about him when he tried to argue with DougBendo about whether or not the SDF-3 would in reality have fallen into the black hole or not (can't recall who won, though...the whole thing was pretty painful) and then as the guy who posted a negative review of every episode of Frontier. Some of his points were valid, most were negative for negativity's sake.

Interesting that he's moved on to whether the Japanese specs "work" for RT. I hope he wins that little argument. It would make me feel a little safer about Macross Chronicle translations not being pilfered to bolster RT.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well...you DO post there more than most of us...which, by analogy, is kind of getting into the cage with the monkeys.

Yeah, but that's really more like marching into the cage to stop the monkeys from trying breathe water...

Funny about Treiz...I first heard about him when he tried to argue with DougBendo about whether or not the SDF-3 would in reality have fallen into the black hole or not (can't recall who won, though...the whole thing was pretty painful) and then as the guy who posted a negative review of every episode of Frontier. Some of his points were valid, most were negative for negativity's sake.

Treiz is one of those special children who believes that Robotech is a wildly successful and popular sci-fi franchise to rival Star Wars or Star Trek, and he usually tries to support his arguments with some pretty tortured logic that usually relies on throwing the "canon" sources aside and creatively reinterpreting a bunch of disjointed scenes out of context.

Interesting that he's moved on to whether the Japanese specs "work" for RT. I hope he wins that little argument. It would make me feel a little safer about Macross Chronicle translations not being pilfered to bolster RT.

No such luck, I'm afraid. Turns out even that "Art of the Shadow Chronicles" book reprints P. Thomassen et. al.'s OSM-derived mecha specs word for word... even the spelling and transposition errors.

I don't think we'll have to worry about Chronicle translations being pilfered to bolster RT, they seem content with what they already have, and what they can steal from RobotechResearch and SteelFalcon where the VF-1 is concerned.

[JB0]

Not to mention that the captured Factory Satellite(s) was either originally meant to, or redesigned to process asteroids.

The Factory Satellite certainly is akin to a deus ex machina.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Beats the heck out of mining planets and shipping the raw materials up to the factory.

Especially since the factory itself is mobile. Just park it near an asteroid belt and start shoving rocks in.

...

Hmm... given the firepower available to the zentradi, you could blow up a moon and shovel that in as well.

Haven't seen any planet-buster weapons aside from the Protodeviln... but it's kind of amusing to think of, given the Robotech novels claimed the zentradi were originally created as miners. I don't think that's QUITE what they had in mind, but I'm never gonna be able to shake the image now.

[Einherjar]

Funny about Treiz...I first heard about him when he tried to argue with DougBendo about whether or not the SDF-3 would in reality have fallen into the black hole or not (can't recall who won, though...the whole thing was pretty painful) and then as the guy who posted a negative review of every episode of Frontier. Some of his points were valid, most were negative for negativity's sake.

For die-had fans, isn't that the standard response to any new Macross material released specifically because it's not labeled Robotech? It might also be a personal bias, because he's totally fine with everything not Macross, even new Gundam and new Speed Racer (film included). Anyway, he might have been screwing around with Doug just for kicks too.

I don't think we'll have to worry about Chronicle translations being pilfered to bolster RT, they seem content with what they already have, and what they can steal from RobotechResearch and SteelFalcon where the VF-1 is concerned.

Who knows? I remember MEMO mentioned wanting to do something along those lines before. If HG continues to keep quiet about Robotech, a new or enthusiastic fan is bound to get the "brilliant" idea to retcon the material into Robotech anyway for completeness sake.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Einherjar