Does it bug anyone else?

[Aegis!]

So pretty much no one has anything good to say about the VF-0 or Macross Zero for that matter...I wonder why does Kawamori eveb bother to make new series when there´s so many nitpicking.

[Abombz!!]

Well.  The VF-0 looks like it's part of the fleet in Macross7.  Something in Kawamori's design that evolved.  That's is just my opinion, ofcourse.  

Ok... I hate Macross Zero.... but that was quite an offensive statement in my opinion.

Get a life!

Bah! Life is overrated. And besides.... I gave it, its yearly 3 weeks vacation.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

I'm just real disapointed they wern't biplanes, i wanted valky biplanes.

Now that would make one heck of a Alternate universe series.

a mile long space ship crashing in the pacific in 1915? that could work!!

[Abombz!!]

I'm just real disapointed they wern't biplanes, i wanted valky biplanes.

Now that would make one heck of a Alternate universe series.

a mile long space ship crashing in the pacific in 1915? that could work!!

No! The whole variable biplanes concept. Make the tanks into destroids.... Ring of Red style... and you got yourself an AU Macross show.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

i was thinking a Harry Turtledove type thing, where the countries at war in 1914-1918 use variable technology from space to fight the first world war! but i see where you're coming from!!

of course, they would adapt the tech in terms of what they had back then, bi-planes, early tanks and all that...

Edited August 25, 2003 by Isamu Atreides 86

[Abombz!!]

i was thinking a Harry Turtledove type thing, where the countries at war in 1914-1918 use variable technology from space to fight the first world war! but i see where you're coming from!!

of course, they would adapt the tech in terms of what they had back then, bi-planes, early tanks and all that...

Well... knowing Japanese writers.... I bet they wouldn't have much trouble coming up with something fairly interesting.

[azrael]

So pretty much no one has anything good to say about the VF-0 or Macross Zero for that matter...I wonder why does Kawamori eveb bother to make new series when there´s so many nitpicking.

Because he doesn't understand our nitpicking.

[Radd]

So pretty much no one has anything good to say about the VF-0 or Macross Zero for that matter...I wonder why does Kawamori eveb bother to make new series when there´s so many nitpicking.

I honestly have no clue where you're getting this. Obviously not from these boards. Take a look around and think again.

Now, if you're talking about posts in this thread where people are comparing the VF-1 to the VF-0 and saying that the VF-1 outperforms it, you're grossly misunderstanding what people are saying.

This thread was started by someone saying it bothers them that the VF-0 is technologically superior to the VF-1. Others have chimed in to correct him. There's multiple sources that prove that the VF-1 is technologically the superior fighter. Any idea that the VF-0 has better technology is a misconception born from modern animation techniques making the variable fighters of today look better than those animated by Animefriend 20 years ago, and Kawamori's constantly changing design style.

I like the VF-0, and many others do too. Take a look in the toy forums sometime, or even just M0 threads in general.

[Morpheus]

The VF-0 looks great to me, technologically superior ? Maybe, consider it was in limited production at that time, The VF-1 in the original series was the mass produced one, so maybe it got some gadgets removed in order to made them cheaper for mass producing purposes.

One question, the VF-1 could reach space under it's own power in TV series episode-3, while the VF-0 being a test bed for the thermonuclear turbines, I quess the VF-0 are limited to atmospheric use then

The FAST pack......did the VF-0 has any FAST pack ? Or maybe a Full Armor variant ? B) That would be great

[Isamu Atreides 86]

The VF-0 looks great to me, technologically superior ? Maybe, consider it was in limited production at that time, The VF-1 in the original series was the mass produced one, so maybe it got some gadgets removed in order to made them cheaper for mass producing purposes.

One question, the VF-1 could reach space under it's own power in TV series episode-3, while the VF-0 being a test bed for the thermonuclear turbines, I quess the VF-0 are limited to atmospheric use then

The FAST pack......did the VF-0 has any FAST pack ? Or maybe a Full Armor variant ? B) That would be great

i would think that since it still uses fuel, that it would need air to spark combustion, therefore not allowing for use in a nonatmospsheric setting.

[Mobyrz]

Well,

If you notice in ep 1, that Roy's vf-0 flying over sara and shin, it has fast packs on the legs. The fast packs are for extra missles instead of thrusters.

Edited August 25, 2003 by Mobyrz

[Aegis!]

So pretty much no one has anything good to say about the VF-0 or Macross Zero for that matter...I wonder why does Kawamori eveb bother to make new series when there´s so many nitpicking.

I honestly have no clue where you're getting this. Obviously not from these boards. Take a look around and think again.

Now, if you're talking about posts in this thread where people are comparing the VF-1 to the VF-0 and saying that the VF-1 outperforms it, you're grossly misunderstanding what people are saying.

This thread was started by someone saying it bothers them that the VF-0 is technologically superior to the VF-1. Others have chimed in to correct him. There's multiple sources that prove that the VF-1 is technologically the superior fighter. Any idea that the VF-0 has better technology is a misconception born from modern animation techniques making the variable fighters of today look better than those animated by Animefriend 20 years ago, and Kawamori's constantly changing design style.

I like the VF-0, and many others do too. Take a look in the toy forums sometime, or even just M0 threads in general.

yeah I know what you mean but you can´t say there´s no criticism at all in regards to the VF-0 when this topic arises once in a while , I think the situation as far as now is more like this :

Apart from the thermonuclear engines I don´t see any difference in performance between the VF-0 or VF-1 to come to the concclusion that the VF-0 is a prototype or an older model of the VF-1 , which would be a stupid assumption if it was based solely in the numbers of the valkyries.

To this date I think this matter remains unclear mainly because there´s been no solid and specifically clear clues in the OVAs to suggest that neither of the to valks is more advanced than the other one. If anything at all the only radical differences I can gather are their functions (one is a testbed and the other one the cheap main variable fighter ) and appearance (the airframe mainly) but apart from that there´s nothing that has convinced me that the VF-1 or VF-0 is more superior to the other one. I think some people should relax a bit and stop acting like orthodox fans and let the OVA finnish first. I honestly don´t know how some people expected Kawamori to do a Prequel without showcasing his current style , I bet if the VF-1 ever appears in M0 it will not be exactly like we remember it to be , looks-wise, mainly because Kawamori can´t get rid of his style even if he wanted to because that´s what is has developed into after all this years.

[ewilen]

I don't remember the details, but I think VF-1's in the series could only reach suborbital altitudes (almost certainly not escape velocity) without the use of special atmospheric escape boosters. (Not FAST packs but a big rig that encloses much of the aft portion of the Valkyrie.) I think I know what's being referred to in episode 3, but I assume when they return to the SDF-1, it's only at high altitude.

Since FAST packs and armor are represented as innovations in the course of the TV show, it would require a break of continuity (or a bit of explaining) to have them on the VF-0. Perhaps they could show up as a prototype which only eventually got put into production much later.

Not only do jet turbines need air for combustion, but Valks in space need reaction mass to propel them. I suspect that this is why we always see FAST packs on Valks in space in the "more technologically accurate" DYRL, but I don't know how explicitly this has been stated by canonical sources.

Edited August 25, 2003 by ewilen

[KingNor]

ok, i might have been wrong about the technical aspects of the valk actually performing better. it LOOKED like it was flying better than the vf-1 ever did, but if it is on jet fuel and not nuclear then it would technically be inferior i guess (never seen a nuke jet fly so i don't know ) call it diffrent animation style what ever (i'd personally consider it lazyness and lack of restrain in animation, but i'll let that go)

what i simply will not be able to let go is my opinion that the thing simply LOOKS way more advanced. that i just can't handle and throws the whole serise for me.

since the way it is animated in my opinion shows it doing crazyer stuff than a vf-1 and it is designed to look more like later models than the vf-1 as a casual fan i just assumed it was a better plane, so.. thats just what i was seeing.

to illustrait my point about how it looks more advanced than it should, here is a pic.

note the mainly the shoulders, feet/thrusts, and lower leg fins. if you can honestly tell me this looks more like a predisessor to the vf-1 and not something more akin to the thunderbolt valk (right?) then i am clearly seeing the franchise in a diffrent way than EVERYONE else and i'm sorry i brought it up...

anyway... here ya go:

Edited August 25, 2003 by KingNor

[GobotFool]

Think of it this way people, ever see those pretty concept cars full of advanced dohickys on the showroom floor but you never see make mass production? Well thats the VF-0 for you. It was directly said the VF-0 is a test bed prototype limited run series. Its probably a very expensive prototype made to test out the variable frame that would eventually be adapted for the VF-1, a later but less advanced series of fighters. for those pointing out how the VF-0 uses fuel and not nuclear jets also remember they mention the VF-0 was supposed to have nuclear jets but had to make due with regular fuel cause of a shipping delay (just like my fast packs! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr), VF-0 highly advanced proto type. VF-1 a less advanced production series.

I think the VF-0, while I like it looks kinda clunky compared to the VF-1

[Radd]

Couple of things. First, yes, there is critisism of the VF-0. Some people just don't like it, but those people are in the minority. Most people on the site love it. Most of the people posting in this thread love it.

To address some other issues. People keep saying that the VF-0 was built to use nuclear engines. We do not know this. Nowhere in or out of the OVA is this said. The engineer in the show says that they had to make due with the hyper tuned conventional engines, instead of the nuclear engines, but the way it's said he could easily mean that they had to make due with the VF-0, instead of the VF-1 because the VF-1 engines weren't ready.

I sincerely doubt the VF-0 was ever intended to use nuclear engines because of the radical changes required of the frame of the Valkyrie. The VF-0 is larger than a VF-1 specifically to accomodate the conventional engines, and gas tanks are built into the fuselage of the Valkyrie.

You could not put these engines onto a VF-1, with all the changes you'd have to make you'd have to build a whole new Valkyrie. That Valkyrie is the VF-0.

Now, when people are talking about the VF-1 outperforming the VF-0, they're not talking how it moves in the animation. They're talking about the technical stats found at the Macross Compendium.

For those bugged at how well animated the VF-0 is, think of it like this:

In SDF Macross, a low budget tv series, sometimes the Valkyries would move really well, and sometimes they'd move really awkwardly due to bad animation, or a near lack of animation (they liked fading between key frames a lot in the original series).

In 'DYRL?', a big budget movie, the VF-1 Valkyries move much, much, better than their SDF Macross counterparts.

Macross 7,a medium budget tv series, the much more advanced VF-11, VF-17, and VF-19 Valkyries don't move nearly as well as the VF-1 Valks from 'DYRL?'.

Dynamite 7, the same Valks and some lesser Valkyries are moving much better.

It's all about the budget of the show. If we get a new tv series, regardless of when it takes place the Valkyries won't be as well animated as those in Macross Zero, or any of the other high budget Macross movies or OVAs.

As for the picture comparison, you're right about a lot of it. The VF-0 uses a lot of the style found in later Valkyries. The pointed feet, the shape of the nosecone, the shape of the wings, things like that. The shoulders I'd disagree with, the VF-11 shoulders are small and roundish, with a flat panel attached to the front. Take a closer look at the Jamming Bird picture and you'll see what I mean.

Also, take a look at the proportions of the craft. This would be better if you had actual line art of all the Valkyries, but taking what we have, look at the chest of the VF-0, notice how it's much heavier, bigger, and bulkier than the VF-1 chestplace? The VF-11 chestplate is almost non-existant, much trimmer and thinner compared to both.

Take a look at the legs. The VF-0 legs look much simpler in design than those of the VF-1. Just big engine casings with pointy feet at the end. Lacking even the curves of the VF-1 legs, let alone those of the much later VF-11. The same goes for the forearms. I'll agree that the upper arms are much slimmer and rounded, like later Valkyries.

The VF-0 just seems to take a lot of Kawamori's later design styles and ideas and put them into a craft that is supposed to look less advanced and less streamlined than the VF-1.

[Mr March]

I agree there's some room for criticism and a few areas that make the VF-0 appear more thrilling and dynamic from an entertainment standpoint. However, most of these claims stem from the differences in both scene composition/technique and the differences between animation two decades prior compared to the present.

What I don't get, especially comparing the lineart, is the remarkable exaggeration made about the differences in the two designs. People seem to approach the design discussion with such vigour as to suggest one Valkyrie is a circle while the other is a square. Or worse still, suggest the VF-0 looks sooooo advanced that it belongs in an entriely different era.

The VF-0 looks similar in battroid mode to the VF-11 only in the shoulders and arms, but these features don't fit with the overall aesthetic of the VF-0. To me, the thin arms and small shoulders on a VF-0 battroid makes it look much less refined and clunkier in than the VF-1. Thin features work for the VF-11 design because the VF-11 is a thinner proportioned battroid. The VF-0 is not, and those thin arm/shoulder features are jarring to the overall design. The VF-11 is also a "V" shaped torso design. The VF-0 torso is much more triangular and flat, just like the VF-1.

The VF-0 Fighter looks far more like a VF-1 than a VF-11 Fighter. The mid section, forward nose, and wings are far more dissimilar than alike. The VF-0 is very much linear and square like the VF-1. The VF-11 is much different, being very flat and wedge-shaped.

The feet of the VF-0 are much more square than the VF-11 or any of the other era Valkyries. Except for the pointed ends, the look very similar to the VF-1, just in CG.

I find the VF-0 is very suited to it's era. The VF-0 would look out of place next to the VF-4 of Flashback, way too clunky for the YF-19 or YF-21 of Plus, and way too good looking for the mecha of 7. It suits the Space War One era...it wouldn't fit anywhere else.

[bsu legato]

Well said, Mr March. I wish there were some more recent VF-1 battroid line art to compare with, since that one picture that everybody has posted in this thread has those impossible dimensions that drives us so nuts in the toy forum. A better comparison would be to show a 1/48 Valk next to the CGI VF-0.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that the VF-0 represents the VF-1 as the Froating Head would design it today, a sort of "do over" if you will. Now Kawamori's not just going to chuck out the classic VF-1, so instead we get a VF-0.

[GobotFool]

What I think we need is Kawamori to add a VF-1 to Macross zero, make it go through a detailed transformation process that emulates the Yamato 1/48 and also have the same proportions of the yamato, minus the teeny hands. and call that version the definitive envisionment of the VF-1

Of course doing this would still make people unhappy, but still its straight from Kawamori himself! So live with it. So many people want the valk to be what they want it, not how its creator kawamori envisions it. Same can be said of Lucas and star wars, though the new prequals are really bad and I feel Lucas should have called it quits whiile he was ahead, macross zero has lots of potential and what I saw of the first two episodes left me wanting more.

Edited August 25, 2003 by GobotFool

[Aegis!]

Think of it this way people, ever see those pretty concept cars full of advanced dohickys on the showroom floor but you never see make mass production? Well thats the VF-0 for you. It was directly said the VF-0 is a test bed prototype limited run series. Its probably a very expensive prototype made to test out the variable frame that would eventually be adapted for the VF-1, a later but less advanced series of fighters. for those pointing out how the VF-0 uses fuel and not nuclear jets also remember they mention the VF-0 was supposed to have nuclear jets but had to make due with regular fuel cause of a shipping delay (just like my fast packs! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr), VF-0 highly advanced proto type. VF-1 a less advanced production series.

I think the VF-0, while I like it looks kinda clunky compared to the VF-1

Now, this is the thing I don´t get.

How could the VF-0 possibly be a damn prototype of the VF-1 if the VF-1 was one step away from being released from the production lines and the VF-1 airframe and design features were already tested by the VF-X and VF-X-1 series !? If anything the VF-0 draws/copies the design of the VF-1. It would be very foolish if we assumed the VF-0 was an older model than the VF-1 simply because of the numeration of the valkyries...And don´t use that ¨oh the VF-1 could be considered a future fighter¨ argument because it doesn´t make sense.

Think about it , where did the UN get its basic design for most of the Pre-2040 valkyries ? the VF-1 ! where do you think they would get the design for a new testbed in 2008 if there´s no other variable fighter design apart from the VF-1 !? I mean , C´mon people isn´t it obvious ? I hate to put nostalgia and sentimentalism aside for once but not because I love the VF-1 am I going to assume there´s no space for a early development of a fighter during a time which until now was completely empty in the continuity.

And the idea that the VF-0 is or looks more advanced than the VF-1 is just ridiculous, if people can´t see beyond the animation improvements of later series then there´s nothing we can do to help them. How difficult can be to accept the VF-0 could just simply be a testbed for testing new armament system and stealth features for fighters like the VF-X-4 ?

[GobotFool]

Think of it this way people, ever see those pretty concept cars full of advanced dohickys on the showroom floor but you never see make mass production? Well thats the VF-0 for you. It was directly said the VF-0 is a test bed prototype limited run series. Its probably a very expensive prototype made to test out the variable frame that would eventually be adapted for the VF-1, a later but less advanced series of fighters. for those pointing out how the VF-0 uses fuel and not nuclear jets also remember they mention the VF-0 was supposed to have nuclear jets but had to make due with regular fuel cause of a shipping delay (just like my fast packs! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr), VF-0 highly advanced proto type. VF-1 a less advanced production series.

I think the VF-0, while I like it looks kinda clunky compared to the VF-1

Now, this is the thing I don´t get.

How could the VF-0 possibly be a damn prototype of the VF-1 if the VF-1 was one step away from being released from the production lines and the VF-1 airframe and design features were already tested by the VF-X and VF-X-1 series !? If anything the VF-0 draws/copies the design of the VF-1. It would be very foolish if we assumed the VF-0 was an older model than the VF-1 simply because of the numeration of the valkyries...And don´t use that ¨oh the VF-1 could be considered a future fighter¨ argument because it doesn´t make sense.

Think about it , where did the UN get its basic design for most of the Pre-2040 valkyries ? the VF-1 ! where do you think they would get the design for a new testbed in 2008 if there´s no other variable fighter design apart from the VF-1 !? I mean , C´mon people isn´t it obvious ? I hate to put nostalgia and sentimentalism aside for once but not because I love the VF-1 am I going to assume there´s no space for a early development of a fighter during a time which until now was completely empty in the continuity.

And the idea that the VF-0 is or looks more advanced than the VF-1 is just ridiculous, if people can´t see beyond the animation improvements of later series then there´s nothing we can do to help them. How difficult can be to accept the VF-0 could just simply be a testbed for testing new armament system and stealth features for fighters like the VF-X-4 ?

When has it ever been stated the VF-1 even exists in macross zero? I don't remember ever hearing mention of its existence. for all you know it could be another 4 years till a VF-1 is even made. even if the VF-1 does exist, that still doesn't mean the VF-0 predates it. The VF-0 still could be a predecessor that is being passed out on a limited basis while waiting for the VF-1 to get into full scale production. Just because both fighters may possibly co-exist in the current area of the VF-0 time line does not mean they were built side by side. I still feel the VF-0 was built 1st with the VF-1 following it. though I do agree with you aegis, people should not confuse more advanced animation for a more advanced fighter.

Edited August 25, 2003 by GobotFool

[Aegis!]

Think of it this way people, ever see those pretty concept cars full of advanced dohickys on the showroom floor but you never see make mass production? Well thats the VF-0 for you. It was directly said the VF-0 is a test bed prototype limited run series. Its probably a very expensive prototype made to test out the variable frame that would eventually be adapted for the VF-1, a later but less advanced series of fighters. for those pointing out how the VF-0 uses fuel and not nuclear jets also remember they mention the VF-0 was supposed to have nuclear jets but had to make due with regular fuel cause of a shipping delay (just like my fast packs! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr), VF-0 highly advanced proto type. VF-1 a less advanced production series.

I think the VF-0, while I like it looks kinda clunky compared to the VF-1

Now, this is the thing I don´t get.

How could the VF-0 possibly be a damn prototype of the VF-1 if the VF-1 was one step away from being released from the production lines and the VF-1 airframe and design features were already tested by the VF-X and VF-X-1 series !? If anything the VF-0 draws/copies the design of the VF-1. It would be very foolish if we assumed the VF-0 was an older model than the VF-1 simply because of the numeration of the valkyries...And don´t use that ¨oh the VF-1 could be considered a future fighter¨ argument because it doesn´t make sense.

Think about it , where did the UN get its basic design for most of the Pre-2040 valkyries ? the VF-1 ! where do you think they would get the design for a new testbed in 2008 if there´s no other variable fighter design apart from the VF-1 !? I mean , C´mon people isn´t it obvious ? I hate to put nostalgia and sentimentalism aside for once but not because I love the VF-1 am I going to assume there´s no space for a early development of a fighter during a time which until now was completely empty in the continuity.

And the idea that the VF-0 is or looks more advanced than the VF-1 is just ridiculous, if people can´t see beyond the animation improvements of later series then there´s nothing we can do to help them. How difficult can be to accept the VF-0 could just simply be a testbed for testing new armament system and stealth features for fighters like the VF-X-4 ?

When has it ever been stated the VF-1 even exists in macross zero? I don't remember ever hearing mention of its existence. for all you know it could be another 4 years till a VF-1 is even made.

mmm mate , Macross Zero is set in 2008 , the VF-X-1 first flight is in 2007 already and by 2009 the VF-1 makes its first appearance so I really doubt there would be 4 years between 2007-2009.

Taking this into account we could say that the VF-0 and VF-1 projects were paralel to each other and in that sense one was aimed to be the cheap mass production model and the other one a testbed for post-VF-1 fighters. So maybe in 2008 the VF-X-1 project went in two different ways , one the VF-0 proggrame and the other the VF-1 proggrame (and no , the VF-0 could not possibly be the VF-X-1 prototype because that prototype was used for space flight test using thermonuclear engines).

I have to agree though that Kawamori owes to put the VF-1 in Macross Zero , at least by the end of the series or even by Ep.4 , with the all-new animation treatment.

[Mr March]

Well said, Mr March. I wish there were some more recent VF-1 battroid line art to compare with, since that one picture that everybody has posted in this thread has those impossible dimensions that drives us so nuts in the toy forum. A better comparison would be to show a 1/48 Valk next to the CGI VF-0.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that the VF-0 represents the VF-1 as the Froating Head would design it today, a sort of "do over" if you will. Now Kawamori's not just going to chuck out the classic VF-1, so instead we get a VF-0.

Yeah, that would be much more appropriate. The VF-0 is designed with physical limits, imposed by the need for a true CGI model that can handle transformation while maintaining proportion. The original lineart/animation allows for altering of physical characteristics. I beleive "anime magic" is the popular term for this.

Yes I agree with the makeover as well. The VF-0 shares the defining traits of the VF-1 design, kept within the era but tweaking and refining a proven design aesthetic. Personally, I love the revisitations as long as they remain true to the era, which the VF-0 most certainly does.

Edited August 25, 2003 by Mr March

[GobotFool]

mmm mate , Macross Zero is set in 2008 , the VF-X-1 first flight is in 2007 already and by 2009 the VF-1 makes its first appearance so I really doubt there would be 4 years between 2007-2009.

whoops my bad, forgot the date of macross zero, for some reason I thought it was earlier. Still the thought that they were developed togeather one as a high end fighter the other as a mass produced one is not a bad theory. It has happened the more advanced of two lines developed side being canceled even after early production for budget reasons. Also I know nothing bout VF-X, How cannon is this game considered?

Edited August 26, 2003 by GobotFool

[Aegis!]

mmm mate , Macross Zero is set in 2008 , the VF-X-1 first flight is in 2007 already and by 2009 the VF-1 makes its first appearance so I really doubt there would be 4 years between 2007-2009.

whoops my bad, forgot the date of macross zero, for some reason I thought it was earlier. Still the thought that they were developed togeather one as a high end fighter the other as a mass produced one is not a bad theory. It has happened the more advanced of two lines developed side being canceled even after early production for budget reasons. Also I know nothing bout VF-X, How cannon is this game considered?

VF-X and VF-X-1 are not games (well , there´s a game called VF-X but it has nothing to do with this) but rather the prototypes used to test the VF-1 desing.

[GobotFool]

mmm mate , Macross Zero is set in 2008 , the VF-X-1 first flight is in 2007 already and by 2009 the VF-1 makes its first appearance so I really doubt there would be 4 years between 2007-2009.

whoops my bad, forgot the date of macross zero, for some reason I thought it was earlier. Still the thought that they were developed togeather one as a high end fighter the other as a mass produced one is not a bad theory. It has happened the more advanced of two lines developed side being canceled even after early production for budget reasons. Also I know nothing bout VF-X, How cannon is this game considered?

VF-X and VF-X-1 are not games (well , there´s a game called VF-X but it has nothing to do with this) but rather the prototypes used to test the VF-1 desing.

Where are these things refrenced? I am not up on my macross history

[azrael]

Where are these things refrenced? I am not up on my macross history

READ: http://www.anime.net/macross/

[KingNor]

Mr March:

Very very well said. I have to say you make a good case, though i still see the VF-0 as a more advanced looking vehicle. It looks to me like the step between the vf-1 and the thunderbolt valk you have shown in your post.

In my opinion, they to make it appear like a less technologically advanced vehicle it should have been drawn big, blocky, and awkward. to me it looks refined. smaller usually means more advanced when it comes to the military.

Thats just the way i see it.

Aegis:

"if people can´t see beyond the animation improvements of later series then there´s nothing we can do to help them."

For one thing. in an animated show, the animation is key. if they animate something in a way that makes it look to be more advanced than something else, then that is what people will see.

Personally i think it is kind of careless to not put more effort into animating an older fighter to appear to be less agile than a newer one.

I'm studying in part to be an animator and i've learned that it takes alot more effort to restrain movement than it does to animate extreem movement. so while others may simply see it as a diffrent style and some neat crazy plane fighting, i see it as a big break in continuity. its my problem i guess. oh well.

Understand i started this thred to state my opinion that the vf-0 seemed too advanced to me. i wasn't really looking to change anyones oppinion or have other's change my opinion. i just wanted to see if it bothered anyone else, doens't seem to bother anyone else that much though, so i guess i'll just have to agree to disagree.

i do like the design of the vf-0, i just don't think it fits in its time period very well.

[Commander McBride]

If the VF-0 looked less advanced, than no onwe would want to watch it. I mean, it would probably look like the Methuss tot the Valkyrie's Zeta Gundam.

[ewilen]

I'm studying in part to be an animator and i've learned that it takes alot more effort to restrain movement than it does to animate extreem movement. so while others may simply see it as a diffrent style and some neat crazy plane fighting, i see it as a big break in continuity. its my problem i guess. oh well.

Actually, I think this is a good point. In M0's defense, I do recall Roy making a big deal about pilots' needing to take the speed of transformation into account; perhaps the VF-1 will transform more quickly/smoothly. But I also don't see this as a factor in the actual fighting as depicted, and for that matter I'd rather the combat was slower--which would make it more realistic and easier to follow.

As for the overall appearance, one area where the VF-0 really looks more like later VF's to me is in the cockpit/nosecone area. It's got a stubby, rounded, bulbous nose, a bit like an F-4, instead of the VF-1's sleek, contoured, F-18/Viper (Battlestar Galactica)/X-Wing nose.

That said, if I was going to bet, I'd bet that Kawamori's intent is for the VF-0 to be a prototype in the VF-1 development program, and that existing continuity regarding the VF-X and VF-X-1 is being cast aside.

[Bub]

Kinda OT but I think people's views on VF-0 compared with the VF-1 (which being advanced and "advanced looking") may actually change if we see a VF-1 in future Macross Zero episodes.

[Aegis!]

Aegis:

"if people can´t see beyond the animation improvements of later series then there´s nothing we can do to help them."

For one thing. in an animated show, the animation is key. if they animate something in a way that makes it look to be more advanced than something else, then that is what people will see.

Personally i think it is kind of careless to not put more effort into animating an older fighter to appear to be less agile than a newer one.

I'm studying in part to be an animator and i've learned that it takes alot more effort to restrain movement than it does to animate extreem movement. so while others may simply see it as a diffrent style and some neat crazy plane fighting, i see it as a big break in continuity. its my problem i guess. oh well

What I meant by seeing beyond the animation is that we shouldn´t assume something is/looks more advanced solely because of eye-candy animation and fast choreography. Perhaps the animators failed in representating the VF-0 technological limits by making an emphasis in the action of the battle and the early variable fighters dynamic combat. I believe that if they made M+ with M0´s animation it would be a lot faster and dynamic than what we saw in the original OVAs.

That said, if I was going to bet, I'd bet that Kawamori's intent is for the VF-0 to be a prototype in the VF-1 development program, and that existing continuity regarding the VF-X and VF-X-1 is being cast aside.

I highly doubt so , if they haven´t said that by now then it´s very difficult they´ll say it in the next episodes.

Kinda OT but I think people's views on VF-0 compared with the VF-1 (which being advanced and "advanced looking") may actually change if we see a VF-1 in future Macross Zero episodes.

I agree , I think many orthodox fans may find it unbearable to watch a new series that features a VF-1 look-alike without actually seeing the real thing in its newly animated glory ; that to my mind is the main reason people show so much critisism and biased assumptions agaisnt the VF-0.

[garoquel]

Actually let me settle this and this all boils down to, having sidestories and prequels made after the original series has come and gone, and most of these newer offerings wheter gundam, macross, or whathave you are reflections of the times they are made, everything from the look of the characters, settings, vehicles, weapons etc.

all this happens and the timeline gets wre-written with each new release, look what happened with macross, and DYRL, after DYRL came out everything from the look of the characters to the VF-1's was brougth in line with the movie, and all the original stuff was thrown out the window, thats the reason for all current Macross artwork that we see has DYRLS movie stylings with the guys wearing the jumpsuits and Mynmay wearing her pink dress.

dont be surprised if after macross zero everyone is wearing some sort os hybrid navy style G-suit/ Tactical fligth suit, Top Gun style. that would be trippy .

Garoquel

http://www.macrossmilcomnet.net

[Vampire Hunter D]

Kinda OT but I think people's views on VF-0 compared with the VF-1 (which being advanced and "advanced looking") may actually change if we see a VF-1 in future Macross Zero episodes.

Yup you're right! But i like the VF-1 than the VF-0.....

[VF-0S FAN]

My tastes must seem limited to all of you but I only like S valkyries ( it's also good for the bank account )

So I really prefer the VF-1S rather than the VF-0S in Fighter mode but in Battroid Mode that's totally the opposite and in Gerwalk mode ,I like both