ryno banned again...

[taksraven]

I smell thread lock...

Does that smell like teen spirit?

Taksraven

[Mr March]

Does that smell like teen spirit?

Taksraven

No, it Smells Like Children

[Gubaba]

ichijoe hikaru sumthing.....

Ah. Y'know, I like MacrossWorld. I check it (and often hang around) a couple of times every day.

But I think that if I were given a 3-Day ban, I could probably control myself enough not to piss the mods off further by trying to sneak back in.

[Beltane70]

I've never been banned on any forum, but if I were to get a temporary ban, I sure wouldn't do anything to further jeopardize my membership.

[Gubaba]

I've never been banned on any forum, but if I were to get a temporary ban, I sure wouldn't do anything to further jeopardize my membership.

Yeah...it's like getting a speeding ticket, and then driving away from the cop at 90 mph...

[Mr March]

Depends on the forum. There are very good and just reasons for getting banned from some message boards.

But if you want back in, best to behave

[Dante74]

I dare you.

Ok, you called my bluff.

But check my new avatar!

Edited April 26, 2009 by Dante74

[anime52k8]

AHHHH!!! MY EYES!!!!!

[Mog]

I expect better from you, Dante74.

No arrow pointing out Connery's E.O.P. = FAIL!!

[Mr March]

Ok, you called my bluff.

But check my new avatar!

LOL! :lol:

The animation totally makes the avatar

[Kyp Durron]

I've never had a problem with Ryno, but he dug his own grave and has no one to blame but himself.

Heck, I suspected that Macross 1979 was him because I thought I recognized his posting style. He always says "Thanks mate!" in his posts whenever he thanks someone, not to mention how frequently he was posting.

-Kyp

Edited April 27, 2009 by Kyp Durron

[macross4life]

I don't see what he did that was so wrong. Can anyone elaborate on this? As fas as I understand this 1979 guy was banned for people "thinking" he was this "ryno" guy. But I don't even see a connection between the 2? How do you guys know it was me?

[Kyp Durron]

Interesting first post there...

-Kyp

[eugimon]

what's that over yonder I see? Oh nothing, just some bridges being burnt.

[nukatsuka]

Im sorry Ryan but this post actually made me laugh. Read your last sentence...thats probably part of how they figured out it was you.

I don't see what he did that was so wrong. Can anyone elaborate on this? As fas as I understand this 1979 guy was banned for people "thinking" he was this "ryno" guy. But I don't even see a connection between the 2? How do you guys know it was me?

[m0n5t3r]

is that right or was that last part (..."it was me") changed...

5.0??? didn't even see 4.0...

[eugimon]

Im sorry Ryan but this post actually made me laugh. Read your last sentence...thats probably part of how they figured out it was you.

haha, that's awesome.

[VFTF1]

We had a similar case on one of our local Transformers boards here in Poland. Except the "culprit" who pissed off the mods and couldn't stand his 3 day ban, so kept making new accounts and digging himself a deeper hole was 13 years old...

Message to Ryan: creating new user accounts to get around temp bans results in perma-bans. Creating new-user accounts to get around perma-bans reminds mods why they banned you in the first place. Creating yet ANOTHER new-user account to get around yet another perma-ban continues to erode memories like "Ryna is a nice guy who is dedicated to Macross" and creates new memories like "Ryan is that guy who thinks he's better than the rest of us and can ignore mods and rules"

Being rebellious in the face of opression is cool.

Being rebellious in the face of the mundane is ridiculous.

Persisting in rebellion in the face of the mundane is laughable.

I think what might have ticked off the mods was also the fact that while numerous folks (myself included) initially wrote posts in defense of Ryan with calm arguments, Ryan just insulted the mods and called them names.

In any event - some of us hang out in only a few select threads mainly. So I remember when the mods in the toy thread gave a warning to Ryan, I was like "huh? why?" - and got PMed with long letters meticulously demonstrating that Ryan had been warned in other threads where I am not a frequent guest.

Anyways - to make a long story short - dude - this is ridiculous.

I am sure that many of us here would like to change something minor in our favor but the whole point of playing together is that we agree to somtimes compromise and are respectful of the people we are playing with.

That's kind of the stuff they teach in kindergarten - first and second grade.

What possible point did creating FIVE seperate user accounts have?

I personally can't stand crap like this. It's totally unnecessary. Instead of five user accounts, you could have written five letters to the mods or something. Or written to any of us asking to maybe start a thread trying to get you un-banned or to write PMs to the mods to try and see what could be done about it.

There were numerous ways to proceed.

The one you chose was the worse

Pete

[taksraven]

I don't see what he did that was so wrong. Can anyone elaborate on this? As fas as I understand this 1979 guy was banned for people "thinking" he was this "ryno" guy. But I don't even see a connection between the 2? How do you guys know it was me?

Post of the Year.

Taksraven

[Dante74]

Post Thread of the Year.

Dante74

[do not disturb]

its hard to stay cool/level headed when random people are calling you out left and right.

why not just let him post in peace and see where it goes?

if you let him back in and he conitues to be a douchebag, just ban him for life.

i think he deserves a "real" second chance which he has yet to receive.

[MacrossMan]

its hard to stay cool/level headed when random people are calling you out left and right.

why not just let him post in peace and see where it goes?

if you let him back in and he conitues to be a douchebag, just ban him for life.

i think he deserves a "real" second chance which he has yet to receive.

I’ve always thought Ryno’s banning was a bit on the silly side. There are rules and I believe most understand and follow them.

I’m not sure what led up to the original ban, but I do remember the guy being excited about having a custom title; not even realizing the joke was on him. Once the joke went over his head it was made clear in the open forum that his “substantial” post count was due to spamming and things went sideways from there.

This is a free and open forum with rules; understandably, but I think this was more about pissing someone off than breaking a rule. I was given a brief suspension once for comments made after a mod's reply in this post. My subsequent posts afterwards here and here ended with the mod handing down a temporary ban in his reply; not for breaking any rule in particular, but for what I have seen on this forum is some mods seem to get beside themselves.

Some might argue that “calling a mod out” is a plea for others to rally behind you. On the flip side of things, one might argue that this thread being allowed to continue without any concrete evidence is a gross misuse of mod rights to allow others to substantiate suspicion without being accountable. From my understanding this thread was locked early on, then unlocked for some reason.

It still has not been substantiated how it was revealed that this was Ryno, other than this thread being allowed to stay open for members to post their suspicions on it being him.

I’m of the same belief as dnd; why not just let him post in peace and see where it goes. The short and sweet answer to that is probably “because I/we don’t have to”. If macross1979 was indeed Ryno I do not see the harm in his posts and have to wonder what this is really about. What does banning him and allowing this thread to carry on matter at this point if he is banned?

It's a wrap so let's move on.

[Excillon]

I’ve always thought Ryno’s banning was a bit on the silly side. There are rules and I believe most understand and follow them.

I’m not sure what led up to the original ban, but I do remember the guy being excited about having a custom title; not even realizing the joke was on him. Once the joke went over his head it was made clear in the open forum that his “substantial” post count was due to spamming and things went sideways from there.

This is a free and open forum with rules; understandably, but I think this was more about pissing someone off than breaking a rule. I was given a brief suspension once for comments made after a mod's reply in this post. My subsequent posts afterwards here and here ended with the mod handing down a temporary ban in his reply; not for breaking any rule in particular, but for what I have seen on this forum is some mods seem to get beside themselves.

Some might argue that “calling a mod out” is a plea for others to rally behind you. On the flip side of things, one might argue that this thread being allowed to continue without any concrete evidence is a gross misuse of mod rights to allow others to substantiate suspicion without being accountable. From my understanding this thread was locked early on, then unlocked for some reason.

It still has not been substantiated how it was revealed that this was Ryno, other than this thread being allowed to stay open for members to post their suspicions on it being him.

I’m of the same belief as dnd; why not just let him post in peace and see where it goes. The short and sweet answer to that is probably “because I/we don’t have to”. If macross1979 was indeed Ryno I do not see the harm in his posts and have to wonder what this is really about. What does banning him and allowing this thread to carry on matter at this point if he is banned?

It's a wrap so let's move on.

Because rules are rules. And that works on 2 fronts:

1. Why should he be exempt from the spamming rules, while the rest of the membership is subject to them? I don't care if he has ADD/Hyperactivity/Immaturity, whatever. This isn't a spamming forum. I'm not one to be wordy, some of my posts are short, but the topic needs to at least address the main subject, not eugimon's pants, and CERTAINLY not that awful ninja smiley we all got REALLY F***ING sick of seeing. The mods should remove that smiley permanently, I know I've had my fill.

2. If Ryno was willing to show a BLATANT disregard for the spamming rules, multi account rules, who's to say he wouldn't have broken more serious rules down the road? Conjecture maybe, but I think at this point it favors the mods side of the arguement.

Like I said in an earlier post, let him rot in the Robotech forums. He knew the rules, knew he was breaking them, let him suffer. I think all the people who KNEW (not suspected) that he was Ryno deserve to be punished as well. If for no other reason than that is undermining not just the mods, but the site rules. You undermine the site rules, you undermine the site itself.

[VFTF1]

Answer is simple:

Because if it was Ryan, then Ryan broke the rules in a big way. If he can do it, why can't other people? If we can suddenly say that this particular rule is silly and not that big a deal, then why can't other people say that about other rules - about all the rules?

I would also like to see Ryan come back to MW - mainly because it seems to me that he loves Macross and therefore it is natural that he should want to hang out with people who share the same love of Macross.

However, I would also like to see Ryan be equally cool in his approach as DND and MM are in approaching his ban.

Namely - Ryan - since this is no big deal and petty - why not also just apologize to the mods for the initial infraction, acknowledge some peoples' complaints, and also apologize for the multi-user accounts?

However- Ryan could have done this ages ago yet he keeps creating new user accounts to get around the ban.

So - who's making a haystack out of one little strand of hay? Not the mods. Not any members that might have considered Ryan's posts to be spam - but Ryan himself who rather than just sit out his 3 day temp ban or ask via email for members to petition for his return following his perma-ban has flipantly created multiple accounts to post in disregard of the people who run the site and do the work to keep it running.

Bad form.

Pete

[eugimon]

There's a link to the original situation that got ryno banned in the first place on the first page. I'll quote EXO's summation here:

I just want to reiterate what has been said. Ryan wasn't banned because of the post whoring/spamming. It was because he continually broke other rules such as multiple accounts and continually ignoring the moderators of this site's private warning. And he denied the private warnings and played it like he was being persecuted publicly to make the mods look bad. So it's not like he wasn't given multiple chances. I even had a thread of PMs with him and I carefully spelled out what kind of thin ice he was walking on. He tells me he understands and promises to be good, but then continually does moronic things. I met Ryan at MWCon, and yes he was a nice guy. But he's totally disruptive.

Again, his banning is not given to him on his first strike... he was given MULTIPLE CHANCES.

And yes the mod's actions are inconsistent, but that's because we take banning as something serious, if it's an obvious troll then it's easy, but if it's someone that is a genuine member that has caused a ruckus, then it's not as easy. We actually take time to decide what the final action will be.

And another thing, a permaban is a permaban. We allowed one member to come back, but don't press your luck... once it's decided you're gone... you're most likely to stay gone. But banning someone is the last option so the members don't have to worry about walking on eggshells.

On a personal note... the first time I spoke to ryan about the matter, I told him that what we were talking about was off the records and I didn't want him to tell anyone what I was telling him. And the asswipe forwarded my PM via BCC to his buddies, but the idiot hit reply to me instead of forwarding... right there and then I knew that he had total disregard for rules or what anyone thinks. I'm sure he's enjoying reading this thread but that's pretty much all he's going to get to do.

It was made clear that it wasn't just the spamming that got him temp banned but also the multiple accounts he opened while he was a member for the express purpose of trolling. He was given warnings, a flashy title and then the temporary suspension and during that time out period he continued to open new accounts and continue posting, taunting mods, making an ass out of himself and those of us who DID come to his defense.

I'm still gonna stick to what I wrote in that first thread that I didn't think Ryno's antics were worth the considerable attention paid to him. But HOW he chose to deal with the situation pretty much set up how it was all going to play out. By continuing to flaunt the mods and ramping up the antics he pretty much verified what some people and mods thought of him.

And by continuing to open new accounts and resume his behavior instead of, as was suggested by VFTF1, approaching the mods in calm and conciliatory manner, he's pretty much shooting himself in the foot and proving right the chorus of people who were calling for his perma ban and again - it makes those of us who did support him look like fools and I'm not gonna speak for anyone else, but I'd think twice about supporting him if a debate for bringing him back did come up.

[Mr March]

Post Thread Avatar of the Year.

[Phyrox]

...why not just let him post in peace and see where it goes.

Hmm, because he was already perma banned? The mods don't just hand those things out, you gotta earn 'em. Banning wouldn't really mean anything if, like you suggest, it didn't mean anything.

As to why this thread is still open, I would imagine it's because the mods realize that clamping down on anything controversial is pretty poor form, and giving MWers a place to talk about this sorta stuff is good. I'd wager no mods really care enough about Ryno to let this threat exist merely to allow strangers to "call him out," or whatever. This thread is about openness, not Ryno.

[David Hingtgen]

I'll make a quick comment:

He initially had a 3-day ban. That's pretty darn short as bans/punishment go---people have been punished more for doing less. But he didn't even "accept" that and simply be quiet for 3 days---he created a new account and started post-spamming again within a *day*.

"Blatant disregard" of bans/punishment/moderation will annoy all the mods real quick. That's just outright thumbing your nose at us (and Shawn and Graham). (and no, I didn't do any of the banning)

[Excillon]

The thing that kills me though is that certain people act like the mods owe them an explanation, and they don't. They just did they're job, the job they agreed to do. I'm sure every cop has had to arrest someone they didn't want to arrest. Hell, I was arrested once and the cop flat out told me if he could he'd let me out of the car right there, unfortunately for me, I broke the law by fighting in a bar brawl, and even though it was 2 on 1, and even though I gave one guy stitches and another lost 4 front teeth and got pretty banged up myself and broke my hand, I still broke the law. I didn't even start it, but that didn't matter. Wisconsin doesn't have self defense laws, so it's black and white. I fought, I went to jail, I paid the 250 dollar ticket for DC fighting, that was the end of it. I didn't like it, but I accepted it. Most of us are mature enough to accept the consequences of our actions. Anyhow, the point is that I'm sure the mods don't enjoy banning and pissing off members, but sometimes, they have no choice. It's what they must do to preserve the order of this site. If not, people would be ripping each other off, flaming and getting downright nasty, not to mention the worst of it: Without the mods regulation, how many repeat topics, more importantly, how many f***ing ROBOTECH topics would we see on here? Think about it.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Excillon

[EXO]

I originally locked the thread and others thought it was better to remain opened since this seems to be a persistent problem for the mods. An uninterrupted feedback from the members would probably help the site more than an explanation from the evil tyrants of the boards.

Just to let you know... Anything that makes this duty seem like a job pisses off the mods, so the repetition of this issue is exhaustively offensive.

But to help shed some light:

FYI, Ryan did send a letter that was posted by admins in the mod section asking to be reinstated. He promised that he would not again make a duplicate profile and start posting on MW. He promised that he learned his lesson and would never ever do it again. It was sent to an admin forwarded by another member. And he was sent a reply stating that his request would be reviewed in 3 months.

Little did we know that he was already posting under a different profile during that time.

That also didn't lend credibility to the person that forwarded the note.

If you were given 5 guesses on how we know that it was Ryan, you would probably be right on all 5 points. It wasn't that hard and it was pretty obvious and very solid. If you take even more guesses, the percentage of you being right would still be pretty high.

There are a lot of predicaments that could happen when a member that was banned tries to come back under a different profile. First of all, a permaban is a permaban. We've only had one occasion where it was reversed, I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone else, especially now.

One of the main concerns, other than rules being rules is that when a banned person starts dealing with merchandise or money with other unsuspecting members, then there's the problem of someone getting shorted if that person's new profile was cut off again. I'm not saying that that person is out to steal money, but that person is very much aware that if he is found out then his account would be suspended again in the middle of a transaction. The mods and admins of this site are in no way responsible of any transactions that happen in the For Sale/Trade Section. But we can't help but try to protect people from losing their money or part of their collections as we are all fellow collectors. We weren't aware of the deal going on mentioned earlier on this thread but other transactions were monitored until it seemed like it was complete. Again, if there was anyone that were dealing with Ryan at the time his new profile was banned, we are in no way at fault. There is only one person to blame, but hopefully that's not an issue.

Multiple profiles is a big issue when it comes to forums. Anyone can guess why, think of the trouble of one person being many different personalities on one board. I'm not even gonna get into it... you guys figure it out.

Other member's have been sent warnings about spamming... every one of them didn't have a problem with it... no drama, no fuss. Most of them still post now. One smiley posts and FTW's are discouraged but once and a while isn't offending. I do it myself... MWers aren't meant to walk on eggshells. But answering every post like they were personally directed at you, especially with a spamlike reply becomes an eyesore for other people and to continue to do so after a warning is just blatant disregard for the forum rules.

In no way am I trying to explain the action of the mods... I'm just trying to point out why the rules are what they are.

BTW... By Jeniffer Aniston, we mean Jeniffer Aniston, Zardoz, Manfaye and whatever else there is...

[EXO]

whoah... that's a long post...

call the padre!

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

The Spirit of Hurin compels me...

[VFTF1]

I appreciate the long post, and I hope other members do too.

Thanks for clearing it up,

Pete

[taksraven]

I think all the people who KNEW (not suspected) that he was Ryno deserve to be punished as well. If for no other reason than that is undermining not just the mods, but the site rules. You undermine the site rules, you undermine the site itself.

Not trying to be narky or rude, but how would you know for sure that some people KNEW it was Ryno rather than suspecting. (Unless they were silly enough to admit to it directly)

I agreed with all of your previous points except for this one. Even if they did know it was Ryno, its not like they were commiting an act of genocide. In other words, I don't think that their crime was *that* extreme. It still wasn't right though and there would be nothing wrong with the mods telling them that.

*************************

As for working with the mods to make this a better forum. Maybe if we had some sort of "Three strikes and yer out" policy. I have been to other forums where infractions against the rules are recorded against your name (privately, not publicly) so you know exactly how close you are sailing to some sort of ban or disciplinary action. It might help make things more consistent.

I know that one warning from a mod should always be enough to get a person to shut up, but people are argumentative by their very nature.

Also, it might help if all warnings were PM'ed. I nearly missed a warning once and it was right before I nearly shot my mouth off (once again, I'm no angel). PM ing the warnings would give people less of an excuse to say that they didn't know.

Just an attempt at some constructive input, feel free to ignore it.

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

I agree with Taks about not punishing people who interacted with Ryan 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 because how are you going to prove who knew it was him? So far, I don't even know all the user names he used - just Macross1979, and then the one he used to butt into this thread. I don't think I interacted with him but - it would be bad form to punish people who did because...what? Are we supposed to suddenly become paranoid about newbies? Are we supposed to request ID papers of users before we talk to them or engage them in forums?

But on the other hand - this is exactly why Ryan deserves his ban: look at what happened because of him - look at the harm done. We now have a discussion going about possibly punishing some members for engaging with other members who were "fake" members and really subversives going against their ban.

What really takes the cake - IMO - though - is just how BIZZARRE Ryano's behavior in all of this is. I mean - WHY would you create a duplicate account after getting a 3 day temp ban? WHY would you send a letter to the mods via an intermediary asking for leniancy ONLY to create yet another duplicate account - even after the mods BASICALLY told you "we'll let you back in after 3 months" (because - come on - let's be serious - is there any doubt that "3 month review" basically translated to "we appreciate your letter, if you're sincere then we'll bury the hatchet in three months?")...

Another note - this whole discussion is kind of unfair to Agent 1. I saw the thread where he got banned - and yeah, what he wrote was out of line - but in the grander scheme of things - it was also a "petty" offense - he didn't exactly murder anybody or set the forum "on fire" or something. And yet I'm really impressed that he had the wherewithall to patiently wait out his ban, probably petition through several channels for re-entry -and come back with a completley cool attitude and make positive contributions to the forum.

Meanwhile this the - what - second multi-post topic thread dealing with Ryano. And this is the second time where lots of us say things like "he's a nice guy" and "he should apologize and we'd help him get back in" and then we learn what Exo has told us.

Personally, I at this point feel like Ryan is either totally on an emotional rollar coaster ("Please send this letter to the mods on my behalf"...five minutes later...creates yet another user account/undermines the mods)... or he actually ISN'T a nice guy and ISN'T trust worthy.

Finally - whoever the member was that stuck his neck out and conveyed Ryan's message of peace to the mods has now been burned in terms of credibility - at least judging from Exo's post. Independent of whether this member made a big mistake or not, the member is ANOTHER person hurt by this situation.

So - all in all - I think it's obvious that Ryan's caused some real harm to people and continues to do so and deserves his ban in light of all of this.

Pete

[Dante74]

Wouldn't it be awkward if he showed up at the con?