ryno banned again...

[m0n5t3r]

Wouldn't it be awkward if he showed up at the con?

LOL, that's exactly what i was thinking for you guys in the US... EXO just standing around and then somebody hugs him from behind... guess who???

(not that it's any of my business )

EDIT - that Zardoz avatar sure is distracting...

Edited April 29, 2009 by m0n5t3r

[eugimon]

The idea of "ryno" hearings is pretty silly. As is the implied idea of members reporting suspected ryno sightings. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Ryno Party?

This is giving the guy far more credit and influence than he, or this situation, deserves.

[do not disturb]

if he created that many accounts just to hang here, i'd say he likes this place, and probably more so than the majority of the membership. the guy has always been amped in his posts, PMs and in real life(from those who have met him).

granted he broke the rules but at the end of the day, this is a toy/anime forum, why so serious? if he was posting offensive stuff i could understand the ban but him going on posting rampage because he missed this place isn't that bad. he went cold turkey from posting and its obvious he needed to get his fix so to speak.

and as a member(not a mod), if you're really spending your days looking for possible fake accounts to report, you really need to get a life. like seriously, your sh!t is just pathetic. its one thing for a mod/admin to do it since its their job/duty but as a member?, i'd say you simply suck at life.

i don't get how someone does/says something stupid on the internet and people hold their grudge for years and years and years. its the internet, its great for porn, shopping, and make fun of stuff, none of it needs to be taken to heart.

whatevs though, i'm not a mod so i can't really say, i just feel he deserves a real 2nd chance.

if he steps out of line in the slightest, show him the exit and ban him for life.

[VFTF1]

if he created that many accounts just to hang here, i'd say he likes this place, and probably more so than the majority of the membership

Huh? So if I create multiple user accounts and open seven topics about Jennifer Aniston and tell the mods to piss off if they start to lock them, then that'll mean I like this place more than the majority of the membership?

if he steps out of line in the slightest, show him the exit and ban him for life.

Define "steps out of line in the slightest" ?

Because from what I can tell he's already done that over and over and over again.

i don't get how someone does/says something stupid on the internet and people hold their grudge for years and years and years. its the internet, its great for porn, shopping, and make fun of stuff, none of it needs to be taken to heart.

I agree.

Which is why I don't get how Ryano could take to heart his 3-day temp ban to the extent that he led to this ridiculosu situation for himself.

Or is it only that the MODS can't take things to heart, but if a member feels unfairly treated then they can break rules and flame away?

Pete

[do not disturb]

i wasn't speaking of just the mods, i'm talking about everyone on this planet.

nothing said on the intenet should really be taken personally. sometimes people take it personal but in reality, the people who talk crap are usually complete strangers that really have no effect on your life. much like multiple jennifer aniston threads really didn't do anything to ruin anyones life here....though i can't say it wouldn't be annoying.

as a wise man once said to me when it comes to posting on a messageboard....why do you even care?

since then, posting on a messageboard has been more fun and less retarded.

[eugimon]

People care because lots of us like it here, the way it is. Why shouldn't we care about a community we've been involved with for years?

You're right, people shouldn't take things personally. So they shouldn't take it personally when they're being informed they're breaking the rules. Rules, which we as a community, agreed to when we signed up.

[do not disturb]

i forgot, an internet messageboard is serious business!

[MacrossMan]

I'd wager no mods really care enough about Ryno to let this threat exist merely to allow strangers to "call him out," or whatever. This thread is about openness, not Ryno.

I beg to differ on the first sentence. As far as the second sentence, Ryno aside, this is my "openess" in reference to there not being consistency in mod’s behavior/style of/in modding.

Maybe if we had some sort of "Three strikes and yer out" policy. I have been to other forums where infractions against the rules are recorded against your name (privately, not publicly) so you know exactly how close you are sailing to some sort of ban or disciplinary action. It might help make things more consistent.

I know that one warning from a mod should always be enough to get a person to shut up, but people are argumentative by their very nature.

Also, it might help if all warnings were PM'ed. PM ing the warnings would give people less of an excuse to say that they didn't know.

Just an attempt at some constructive input, feel free to ignore it.

Taksraven

I agree with Taksraven statements.

More than rules, I think there needs to be consistency and standards when it comes to moderating; particularly when handing down suspensions.

Several of the moderators here do a fine job of walking the fine line of moderating. I commend them and have a lot of respect for their style of moderating, but there are a few who remind me of cocky police officers; the moderators, or police in this case, that usually show no restraint when they are irritated. These moderators tend more to respond, react and flex in the open forum instead of keeping a cool head.

No matter how it’s sliced, moderating is a job and should be treated as such. As a manager in my job I have to keep a certain degree of separation between the employees I am responsible for. As a parent I can’t be friends with my child; I have to be a father first to properly handle my responsibilities.

In my job I am responsible for several mission critical applications and I’m an administrator on the severs they run on. It’s my responsibility to assign certain rights and access to users on certain applications dealing with intranet content while others I simply maintain. As an administrator you have God-like powers in a sense because of things you can do. I could cause havoc in my workplace by shutting down certain communications, intranet content, and other critical content with a few keystrokes.

Moderating comes with responsibility. Not to sound cliché, but I’m sure most of you remember in the first Spiderman when Peter Parker’s uncle told him that with great power comes great responsibility.

Being an administrator or moderator on a hobbyist forum is not as serious, but I do think that the being a moderator on a forum requires a certain degree of separation between its members to properly “police” the forum as well as keeping their side of the street clean.

As a moderator, your side of the street is not clean when a member has been called out in the open. I personally feel all moderating should be done privately when dealing with members who have violated a rule. As stated in Taksraven’s post, people naturally tend to become argumentative when they’re called to the rug in the open. I would never confront an employee I manage about an issue in front of their co-workers. Those types of conversations are handled in private and are generally better received in private.

I recently had to terminate an employee which is never fun. I have to be able to sleep at night knowing that I have taken away a person’s livelihood. I find peace in knowing I did everything I could to help prevent the person from losing their livelihood before arriving at termination.

With some consistency and standards in moderating policies I think any problem the forum faces with members violating rules would take care of itself from the inside out and there would be no reason for threads like this.

[eugimon]

i forgot, an internet messageboard is serious business!

obviously, you seem to care enough to critique the culture here.

[EXO]

You think we should reinstate someone that breaks other rules because they can't take a 3 day suspension? I tried to make a counterpoint by using other people that were given warnings as an example. Is it fair to those guys, who weren't even suspended but just warned to let other people walk all over the rules? I know this is just a toy forum but we have simple little guidelines to keep it from becoming a free for all.

[miriya]

Wouldn't it be awkward if he showed up at the con?

I have been avoiding posting in this thread (but actively reading it). However I did want to reply to this one....

Why would it be awkward? AFAIK he IS going to be at the con, just like last year. Hopefully I will make it too. But like DNDs point, he is an enthusiastic macross fan who loves the toys. Why shouldnt he come to the con? Also, Knowing him personally and partying with him for a weekend in Santa Cruz, I know that he is a great guy and very funny and entertaining and has a good heart. Anyway, I dont know what I am trying to say but I think that he should come to the con and I hope that he does.

[EXO]

He should go to the con if he wants...

things that get posted here sometimes get taken too seriously. That's just someone's opinion (about it being awkward).

[VFTF1]

as a wise man once said to me when it comes to posting on a messageboard....why do you even care?

One of the things that made me a Macross fan was that it was very obvious that the creative talent behind the series cared about making it very good.

One of the things that made me want to sign up for Macross world was that it was very obvious that the people who set this website up cared enough to make it a fun place to be, cared enough to create rules and regulations so that there would be no ad hoc punishments, but so that we would all have a written guide of rules for reference that we were free to critique and petition for changes if we saw they were merited.

Look - I generally agree with you if you interpret the "why do you even care?" line as meaning that it's never good to get too engaged and that a bit of distance never hurt anybody.

But the other extreme is just as overboard. I mean - look at the guys in the Model Kits section. Look at that guy building the 8 foot long Daedelus. Look at Gubbaba doing all the translation work he's doing... Look at people taking the time to amass collection, take cool pictures or feeling that it's worthwhile to spend huge chunks of time watching anime and thinking about it and analyzing it...

Clearly there's a lot of caring going on.

And last point:

I actually disagree somewhat with this whole "it's just the internet" vibe - I think we've fallen victim to it - it's a BOBBY TRAP...

Look - the internet might be a virtual world - but behind these letters and posts are PEOPLE. And really it's no different then when people gather together in large groups in the "real" world - you need some kind of common rules and guidelines that are fair and you need common courtesy.

More than breaking any rules or guidelines - Ryan broke common courtesy. He was not nice. He was impolite in what he did.

Because it's "just the internet" doesn't make that ok. The internet is populated by human beings - and yes - true - you're right - it's "just" a message board and it's "just" an anime hobby - ok. But - then again, it's also something we all love and it's something we enjoy being a part of.

Heck - look - if Ryan created a new user account in order to open a topic that was titled "I'M SORRY LET ME BACK IN PLEASE" - fine. Heck - if he came into THIS thread and wrote a long post about his point of view - fine.

But come on. The guy hasn't even had the common courtesy to let us know what his point of view is. He comes into this thread with what is either a flippant joke ("how did you know it was me?") or carelessness on his part ("oops, forgot to wash the blood off my hands" type of carelessness) while people here are taking the issue seriously enough to try to stick up for him.

I just don't think that's nice. Does it mean I'm going to starve, die, go bankrupt or that by dick will fall off? Do I lose sleep over it? No. Does the fact that it's not a vital national security matter mean that automatically I shouldn't really care? No.

Don't think I don't appreciate your POV DnD. I just wish that Ryan himself could stick up for himself half as good as some of the members have been doing for him.

Pete

[do not disturb]

You think we should reinstate someone that breaks other rules because they can't take a 3 day suspension? I tried to make a counterpoint by using other people that were given warnings as an example. Is it fair to those guys, who weren't even suspended but just warned to let other people walk all over the rules? I know this is just a toy forum but we have simple little guidelines to keep it from becoming a free for all.

i feel you. i know he broke the rules and its clear he wasn't mature enough to handle his 3 day suspension, i get it.

i don't expect anyone to read my suggestion and make it happen, it was only a suggestion.

i've never attended an MWcon but i hope he makes it out and perhaps some of the other members will have a chance to meet him and realize hes just not that bad of a guy. maybe he'll make a good enough impression and get a second chance.

BTW, i'm not backing this guy because hes my homie, i barely know him. we maybe exchanged like 5 PMs during his time here but he seemed nice enough. i just feel whenever a witch hunt starts here, some members are way too quick to jump on the hatewagon.

[VFTF1]

BTW, i'm not backing this guy because hes my homie, i barely know him. we maybe exchanged like 5 PMs during his time here but he seemed nice enough. i just feel whenever a witch hunt starts here, some members are way too quick to jump on the hatewagon.

I don't detect a hate wagon anywhere.

I've also emailed a couple times with Ryan and done two transactions with him - he was an honest and reliable dealer, which is a big pluss. He also clearly was and probably still is a big Macross enthusiast and has a good collection to show for it.

No body here is questioning his humanity.

I think the point is - like I wrote when he was banned the first time around: The only person who can bring Ryan back is Ryan.

And he's been doing a lousy job at it ever since

Pete

[do not disturb]

i should add, ryno if you're looking at this and want to talk, shoot me an email to ihateskating212@yahoo.com

maybe i can relay your thoughts and feelings on the matter, maybe you can make a formal apology and come back one day as a regular member.

i think the fact that you got members going to bat for you says a lot about you as well as the community, therefore i feel you owe it to them to explain your actions in some way.

just throwing that out thee my man.

[eugimon]

There was a hate bandwagon, it was in the first version of this discussion. Thankfully, those people don't seem interested this time around.

We're using misteryno to talk about the rules, the culture and the moderation philosophy and implementation on this site. I think everyone here is able to separate the infraction from the person. Most of us here all agree that the we appreciated MisteRyno's enthusiasm and his obvious passion. His involvement in the post a pose thread infused it with some much needed life, for instance.

But that's a separate matter from what's being discussed. As EXO has stated on numerous occasions, he wasn't banned because he was "spamming".

[EXO]

i should add, ryno if you're looking at this and want to talk, shoot me an email to ihateskating212@yahoo.com

maybe i can relay your thoughts and feelings on the matter, maybe you can make a formal apology and come back one day as a regular member.

i think the fact that you got members going to bat for you says a lot about you as well as the community, therefore i feel you owe it to them to explain your actions in some way.

just throwing that out thee my man.

I think we went thru that already... well good luck with your attempt there. And the spambots... lol.

[Noyhauser]

He broke the rules, was warned and then continued to do so, even in this thread. Why do we need his side of the story? He already acted contrite before, just to throw it back into the moderator's faces. So trying it a second time is a good idea?

And to be completely blunt, I think the forums are better off without him. He was a blatant and annoying post whore, which proved to be a distraction. Sure people can be serious about macross, so long as it is done within the forum rules established. He went outside of that and continues to revel in it. You don't deal with that by trying to "understand his point of view."

[Mr March]

Does this sort of incident even happen often enough to justify such a stir among the membership? I mean really, the board manages itself and only once in a long while is anyone actually involved in some sort of row that get's them banned. Perspective is definitely missing in all of this drama. But then again, MW has been kinda quiet so maybe this is good for the boards, even if it is just treading water.

[Noyhauser]

Does this sort of incident even happen often enough to justify such a stir among the membership? I mean really, the board manages itself and only once in a long while is anyone actually involved in some sort of row that get's them banned.

No and that's my point. I don't see why this is a big stir that requires all this discussion. From what I can tell, some people met him at the CON and feel some sort of obligation. Yet we already had similar precedents on here. A-One was well known to alot of members personally and he was banned for flaunting the rules. However he served his time without trouble and came back recently. So why would the moderators make an exception for ryno who has continually flaunted the rules and keeps breaking them? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Its clear to me that the moderators acted judiciously in this case, and ryno was given an appropriate punishment. Why there is any discussion is beyond me. I can see why moderating on this forum is a thankless job.

[eugimon]

Does this sort of incident even happen often enough to justify such a stir among the membership? I mean really, the board manages itself and only once in a long while is anyone actually involved in some sort of row that get's them banned. Perspective is definitely missing in all of this drama. But then again, MW has been kinda quiet so maybe this is good for the boards, even if it is just treading water.

Well, like I was saying, I think mistryno has become a proxy for the bigger discussion on the culture of macross world. There's some people who have been pushing for more open threads, others who have been criticizing the moderation (for both more and less) and MisteRyno managed to capture that zeitgeist.

[do not disturb]

ha! its not secondary email addy, not my main one.

maybe i miss all the drama around this guy and hes just a total douchebag?

i just think its hard to be civil if everyone is all in your face and trying to attack you. he probably felt like he was wronged in some way getting banned in the first place and i'm sure it didn't help having usual peanut gallery saying how much he sucks or what have you. its hard not to take it personal when that many people are coming at you, and when people start getting personal, thats usually when they lose their cool and i think that was the case for ryno.

[EXO]

from what I remember, the peanut gallery was WITH Ryno. Suspending and ultimately banning was a moderator group decision...

[Vegas]

thats funny if ryno went to this year's con...

ill be sure to take a picture of him and exo together or any mods...just kidding

[Sulendil Ang]

Does this sort of incident even happen often enough to justify such a stir among the membership? I mean really, the board manages itself and only once in a long while is anyone actually involved in some sort of row that get's them banned. Perspective is definitely missing in all of this drama. But then again, MW has been kinda quiet so maybe this is good for the boards, even if it is just treading water.

Seconded.

Really, what's the fuss with all of this? As far as I'm concern, he's temporary banned for spamming, and then he created not one, not two, but FIVE accounts (well there's some disagreement about the numbers, there's no doubt he posted at least once in this very thread using another account), which is far more than enough for a banhammer.

Bottom line: You break the rule, you're gonna receive punishment. Unable to respect both the rules and the said punishments is at very best an unwise action.

PS: Wow, there's so much drama in the Toys forum than, say, Macross Series forum and Anime forum, my favourite forums. I should lurk there sometimes to entertain my boring day.

[anime52k8]

PS: Wow, there's so much drama in the Toys forum than, say, Macross Series forum and Anime forum, my favourite forums. I should lurk there sometimes to entertain my boring day.

[taksraven]

But then again, MW has been kinda quiet so maybe this is good for the boards, even if it is just treading water.

Yeah, I've been noticing a whole lot of quiet lately. I know that there are natural peaks and lows, but it seems pretty quiet now.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Well, like I was saying, I think mistryno has become a proxy for the bigger discussion on the culture of macross world. There's some people who have been pushing for more open threads, others who have been criticizing the moderation (for both more and less) and MisteRyno managed to capture that zeitgeist.

Well, it has been nice that the mods have allowed for this thread to continue and let some people blow off a little steam. Thing is, of course, if fundamental changes were made to the forums it would just polarise things even more. People would start whining that things here weren't as good as they used to be (I have already seen occasional posts complaining about that) and you would get others complaining that some things had not changed enough.

BUT things always end up changing one way or another and there is always the chance that forums could die from indifference. In the early days of the internet (engage silly old fart mode) I used to hang around on a lot of usenet threads like aus.tv and aus.music and we used to have great discussions there. They were not moderated so some pretty nasty stuff was said from time to time (one wanker once wanted to meet me in public so he could fight me, what a loser) but after a few years the discussions became stale and boring and I don't bother going to the groups anymore.

So it goes.....

Taksraven

Edited April 30, 2009 by taksraven

[Kicker773]

Wow, I never really bothered to look up the top part of the forums and one topic that jumped from the start was this thread. I never knew Ryno, nor have I done any transactions with him. I did see the occasional multiple posting, which at first was fine because I knew from the posts he was an enthusiastic guy, but as time progressed it did get a little annoying. Then again maybe I was just having a bad day and was easily annoyed.

I understand where the mods are coming from on this issue, rules are rules, and if we make an exception then they would have to make an exception for everyone. Permaban = Life time ban from the forum is a little bit harsh and I can see how it got there based on the many opportunities Ryno has been given. Then again I don't really know what conversations he had with the mods and he really didn't help his cause by calling mods names and forwarding an pm that was off the record and between him and the mods. I can feel his enthusiasm of wanting to post on the forum all the time since he loves macross so much, but like a girl says "don't love me too much that your starting to smother me!" (you all know what that means ^,^) he should have taken his 3 day suspension like a man and move on.

Personally, for me being a member on this forum is actually something I cherish since it took me almost six months to become a member. Confirmation issues with e-mail or logging in was a major problem a few years back and I never really heard anything from the mods when I e-mailed them about me joining. So 3 days of waiting is nothing compared to me waiting for six months to become a member. I've me a few a good people on the forum and also a few bad apples, but majority of my experience here has been great.

Ryno you should feel lucky that you have a few people on the forum who took the courage to speak up for you and back you up at the cost of their credibility. I hope you'll cherish that and listen to their advice next time. Your lucky to have met these people in person at cons and they were nice enough to try and speak up for you. I wish in the future if I ever get banned someone who speak on my behalf.

[miriya]

I wish in the future if I ever get banned someone who speak on my behalf.

I will stand up for you Kicker if it ever gets to that. I have had nothing but positive experiences with you here.

[big F]

Not again.

Go away for a few days and stuff always happens.

[Roy Focker]

If people could occasionally act normal we wouldn't need moderators at all. Some just abuse their posting abilities. They don't care about the forums, other members or about their friends. It is all about their fun.

[Kicker773]

I will stand up for you Kicker if it ever gets to that. I have had nothing but positive experiences with you here.

Thanks miriya, I doubt I'll ever get banned unless i do something really stupid.

[MacrossMan]

Thanks miriya, I doubt I'll ever get banned unless i do something really stupid.

Speaking from experience, you don't have to do anything stupid. I'd knock on wood before saying that, or else you might find yourself on the wrong end of a mod's banning wrath.