Surprise!

[the_foul_fowl]

After looking at the pics of the VF-22, I've done something I've never done before...

I've pre-ordered a Yamato macross valk!

I'm not usually one for first runs but I figure since this is technically a repaint of the almost problem-free YF-21, I'm hoping there'll be minimal problems in this release.

I just wish there were more pics of the head. All the photos I've seen have the two points of light reflecting off the visor, makes the VF-22 look like it's squinting and all dorky-like.

[Graham]

Nope, homages to the YF-19 Hasegawa kits custom painted in Model Graphix years ago.

Technically the blue & white and orange & white Project Super Nova paint schemes first appeared in the Variable Fighters Aeroreport chapter of the TIAS Macross Plus book, which predates the Model Graphix articles & Hasegawa by several years.

[David Hingtgen]

..which are all still homages to the F-14 and F-15 test schemes...

[Alex]

Double nuts? is this Yamato being ironic? I mean, this colour scheme really IS just balls.

I apologise for the crass nature of my last comment. I usually am such an erudite fellow.

But, COME ON.......!

Edited May 6, 2009 by Alex

[mr.chogokin]

I just wish there were more pics of the head. All the photos I've seen have the two points of light reflecting off the visor, makes the VF-22 look like it's squinting and all dorky-like.

Give him a 1:6 tommy gun and you'll get a squinting 30's gangster about to open fire. "I like my shoes to be spit shined. Not turtle waxed, see? Yeah! :lol:

[edwin3060]

..which are all still homages to the F-14 and F-15 test schemes...

My point exactly!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

My point exactly!

Yeah but it's not like anyone who was here before didn't know that. Yes those designs may have influenced the ones seen on the 19 in the TIAS book, but it's not news. People caught onto the fact years back.

Anyways, onto more important matters.

Graham, is Yamato going to retool the spine/neck piece in fighter mode, and use a more durable plastic for the bicep/arm swivels/joints in these next releases? How about tampo printing nearly all of the details instead of using stickers, as the v2 1/60 VF-1 and VF-11B have done?

Edited May 6, 2009 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[edwin3060]

Yeah but it's not like anyone who was here before didn't know that. Yes those designs may have influenced the ones seen on the 19 in the TIAS book, but it's not news. People caught onto the fact years back.

Then why did you deny it?

(edwin3060)

Warrhead-- The orange recolour could be an homage to the YF-15 prototype, as well as a variant of the original Prototype 3 colouring, while the red and blue could be an homage to the F-15 S/MTD.

(SDK7.0)

Nope, homages to the YF-19 Hasegawa kits custom painted in Model Graphix years ago.

Face it, you were caught trying to act smarter than you actually are.

Besides, the question from Warrhead (and others in this and another thread) show that not everybody knows the probable origin of these colour schemes-- which might lead them to appreciate them less. Personally, the possible historical homage to actual real life aircraft brings an extra dimension to my enjoyment of the toy and I'm just trying to spread the joy

[Valkyrie addict]

whatever happened to a "kawamori designed" scheme for the 19 that was mentioned a few years ago?!

[miriya]

I would like to see Yamato do a line of all their current valks in blank DIY non-painted, non-tampoed white and black versions. Easy customization.

[VT 1010]

I would like to see Yamato do a line of all their current valks in blank DIY non-painted, non-tampoed white and black versions. Easy customization.

IIRC, I believe Graham had mentioned that if Yamato were to make a valk that was too close to a model kit, they could run into licensing issues. Even if it isn't painted, they start to walk a fine line. Now that they are releasing the fan racer, things may have changed though.

[arrow]

Even though I have the 19, I never liked the brown coloring.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Then why did you deny it?

I didn't deny it.

Face it, you were caught trying to act smarter than you actually are.

The fact that you even brought this up proves that you are trying to act smarter than you are. Face it, you are trying to tell people that have been here for years that something might be new, but in fact isn't. All I did was confirm exactly where the color schemes were seen, in this case the Hasegawa customs then the TIAS book that Graham mentioned, not some "hey it could be from..." theory.

Even though I have the 19, I never liked the brown coloring.

I have a feeling it was Kawamori trying to put a twist on the traditional "hero" colors of Japanese mecha/main characters; white w/red trim. To me, the off-white looks better in the anime than on the toys. I'm not the biggest fan of the double nuts just being the exact same thing only with faded trim, and white body. Maybe it'll look better in person.

I would like to see Yamato do a line of all their current valks in blank DIY non-painted, non-tampoed white and black versions. Easy customization.

I think Graham proposed this to Yamato when the 1/48's were the "new" VF-1 toys, years back, but Yamato wouldn't do it. The idea was for blank 1/48 VF-1's molded in white with A/J/S heads, so you could pick which one you wanted to use, and swap with ease. Edited May 7, 2009 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[QuinJester]

I would like to see Yamato do a line of all their current valks in blank DIY non-painted, non-tampoed white and black versions. Easy customization.

I would also love to see this. The inevitable deep discounting when they don't sell would mean super cheap valks.

[edwin3060]

The fact that you even brought this up proves that you are trying to act smarter than you are. Face it, you are trying to tell people that have been here for years that something might be new, but in fact isn't. All I did was confirm exactly where the color schemes were seen, in this case the Hasegawa customs then the TIAS book that Graham mentioned, not some "hey it could be from..." theory.

Ermm..my post was addressed to Warrhead, and while he might have been here for a long while, he may have missed out on this interesting historical facet, given that he thought that the schemes were something that Yamato pulled out of thin air rather than something that was drawn from previous Macross works (which could be based on real-life aircraft). I also brought it up in a positive tone, and didn't turn all whiny when someone disagreed with me.

Besides, Graham was the one who called you out on the whole 'paint schemes come from Hasegawa' issue and David was the one who again pointed out the resemblances to the F-15 schemes-- and yet you picked on me to give a snarky response? Is this going to be another thread where you bash me mindlessly for pointing out something that Graham said (because, ironically, you missed out on that thread), and then turn around and apologise to Graham when he has to come defend his own words?

Regardless, I don't want to derail this thread anymore. The colour schemes for these YF-19s were probably based on the Hasegawa/TIAS schemes, which could have drawn inspiration from the YF-15 and F-15 S/MTD. Let's leave it at that, ok?

VT1010 The Yamato Fan racer has never been made before by another company though, so I don't think there would be licensing issues there. On the other hand, most of the VFs that have been made into toys have also been made as model kits before.

[VT 1010]

VT1010 The Yamato Fan racer has never been made before by another company though, so I don't think there would be licensing issues there. On the other hand, most of the VFs that have been made into toys have also been made as model kits before.

That's true. Since Bandai is also making toys that aren't from M7 or MF (and Yamato is about to release a valk from M7), there's no telling how things may have changed with licensing. We can only speculate.

[boinger]

After looking at the VFX-2 pictures, it's a possibility that the VF-22S is being made by Yamato because they still have the licence to VFX-2. Then there's hope for VF-17D, VA-3 Invader and maybe even the Feios Valkyrie!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Besides, Graham was the one who called you out on the whole 'paint schemes come from Hasegawa' issue and David was the one who again pointed out the resemblances to the F-15 schemes-- and yet you picked on me to give a snarky response? Is this going to be another thread where you bash me mindlessly for pointing out something that Graham said (because, ironically, you missed out on that thread), and then turn around and apologise to Graham when he has to come defend his own words?

Why would I have to apologize to Graham? I don't see this as bashing you mindlessly I see this as pointing out that we already know some of the stuff that you are bringing up. The fact that you even bring up that I missed some random thread and the irony in it shows "mindless bashing", I don't even remember what you're talking about.

If this is about the VF-11 thread and the miscolored kites I meant no offense to Graham and already stated that I was not accusing him of bullshit. Hell I wasn't accusing him of bullshit at all. If I did apologize, which you will probably try to run a search and quote me on, it's because of the way I may have come across, but I'm not going to confess to something I didn't do. Whatever you may want to think, instigate, or imply, I never accused him of bullshit. Like any other fandom, a lot of fans tend to have a sense of entitlement from a company that makes toys, this is not limited to here, I've been around it elsewhere. I acknowledged the fact that "hey some tips from here pointed Yamato in the right direction for the kite colors", why you even brought that thread up puzzles me.

After looking at the VFX-2 pictures, it's a possibility that the VF-22S is being made by Yamato because they still have the licence to VFX-2. Then there's hope for VF-17D, VA-3 Invader and maybe even the Feios Valkyrie!

Possibly, but I think that the rumored deal with Bandai is per-valkyrie, as in if Bandai wants the VF-171, they can make similar variants, like the VF-17. Same goes for VF-11, and VF-22, I think we will see Macross 7 versions, as well as VFX-2 eventually. With Bandai already making a VF100's Fire Valkyrie, I have a feeling that they are planning DX Fire & Blazer Valkyries.

Yamato tends to favor valkyries that may not always be the most popular, for example I wouldn't be surprised if they have the license for VF-9. So if a company were to go for a Pheyos or VA-3, I think it'd be them, with Tamashii primarily going for the hero mecha.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[edwin3060]

You may know the stuff that I'm bringing up, but others might not--regardless of when they joined the forums. I've seen questions about the colours for the YF-19 pop up about 3 different times in this thread as well as the other threads that were closed as duplicates, hence my wanting to point out a plausible historical possibility.

You coming in and flaming me for doing so is entirely unwarranted-- just like you flamed me previously in that kite thread for having a sense of entitlement (I might add, without doing previous research)--and I won't stand for you denigrating my opinions just because I didn't join the forums in 2003.

Boinger: The VF-22S has been stated to be a Gamlin Kizaki version my Yamato, so while it is possible that they may come out with a VF-X2 re-colour in the future, this current release of the VF-22 is clearly an expansion of the Yamato licenses to include Macross Dynamite 7 (even if only 1 design), rather than just making toys within their current licenses.

[Cent]

You two should probably stop the bitch-fight already before a mod jumps in on it. Just a precaution.

[Radd]

Bit of a reminder, from what we've seen of Yamato and Bandai the license for a particular series in all likelihood only applies to Valkyries which originated within that particular series/game. The Koenig Monster first appeared in VF-X2, so Yamato can make that and Bandai, unless a deal is worked out, cannot make one even though they have the Frontier license. By that same token, the VF-17 appears in VF-X and VF-X2, to which Yamato owns the license. However, it originated in Macross 7, so Yamato has been unable to make a toy of it.

Now, the VF-22 first appeared in Macross 7 proper, not Dynamite, so in all likelihood the appearance of the VF-22 by Yamato, in Gamlin's colours no less, means that either Yamato made a deal for the VF-22 specifically, or that Yamato has both the M7 amd Dynamite licenses now.

Just to curb speculation that the VF-22 is being made due to the VF-X license. Yamato had attempted to include a VF-22 canopy with their Fast Pack edition of the YF-21, which has the same colours as the VF-X VF-22, but that plan was dropped because it came to light that the VF-X license did not cover the VF-22.

Of course, all of this is only speculation on my part (except the part about Yamato's 1/72 VF-22 canopy, I'm pretty certain the reason for that was confirmed, but correct me if I'm wrong on that), but it fits the actions we've seen on both the part of Bandai and Yamato. Graham can maybe confirm or correct some of this?

[eriku]

Why would I have to apologize to Graham? I don't see this as bashing you mindlessly I see this as pointing out that we already know some of the stuff that you are bringing up. The fact that you even bring up that I missed some random thread and the irony in it shows "mindless bashing", I don't even remember what you're talking about.

Here's a ProTip for you Shin: Ignorance is bliss...ifyouknowwhatImean...

And here's to hoping the 19 gets some retooling. If the upcoming releases are just straight-up repaints I'll have no trouble ignoring them.

[edwin3060]

Given that the YF-19 recolours were announced at the end of last month, and will be released at the end of this month, I don't think there will be any significant re-tooling other than what has already been done for the Fold-booster bundle/25th Anniversary version.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

You coming in and flaming me for doing so is entirely unwarranted-- just like you flamed me previously in that kite thread for having a sense of entitlement (I might add, without doing previous research)--and I won't stand for you denigrating my opinions just because I didn't join the forums in 2003.

I don't flame, I debate and abide by the rules here.

and I won't stand for you denigrating my opinions just because I didn't join the forums in 2003.

I've been here longer than that, 2003 was just when they did major board changes enabling all of us to resign under new names. I don't denigrate your opinions just because of when you joined, I just point out stuff and debate it, irregardless of join date.

Given that the YF-19 recolours were announced at the end of last month, and will be released at the end of this month, I don't think there will be any significant re-tooling other than what has already been done for the Fold-booster bundle/25th Anniversary version.

No I think it's quite possible for there to be retools, Yamato has retooled many of their releases. 1/48 VF-1A Max DYRL? had the tighter attached flaps/nosecone, VF-0 w/GHOST had the fixed arms due to retooled parts, and that's just a small number of their many retooled toys. They've done this since their 1/72 YF-19 1.5 there is no reason they will stop now.

Here's a ProTip for you Shin: Ignorance is bliss...ifyouknowwhatImean...

Oh I definitely know....haha

And here's to hoping the 19 gets some retooling. If the upcoming releases are just straight-up repaints I'll have no trouble ignoring them.

I'm with you on that one. I hear that the 19 is the worst of the 1/60 Macross Plus releases. The spine in fighter mode, cracked arms, in at least one case, dismembered arm above the elbow, non locking torso, et al. Sounds like the VF-11 is a world of difference.

[Zinjo]

My theory is that Bandai approached Yamato and offered a deal of certain Mac 7 VF's in exchange for the rights to produce and distribute the VB-6 Monster. Bandai has their VF-100 line which matches the scale of the Yammie VB-6.

If a deal does exist, we don't know if that includes the Yammie molds, CAD specs or just the rights to the variable monster toy. If a deal exists then Bandai may opt to make their own in the same scale.

There is a conspicuous absence of the VB-6 from Yamato and a surprising introduction of a Mac 7 valk (something Yammie never had before) by a company who never before released valks from that Bandai sponsored show. Considering how prominently the monster was shown in Frontier and all the re-issues of Macross merchandise these days, I suspect the VB-6's absence may be due to a quiet deal between the two companies.

We won't know for sure until some sort of announcement is made by either side or Graham gets wind of a deal through his sources at Yammie that he can talk about.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Zinjo

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

If a deal does exist, we don't know if that includes the Yammie molds, CAD specs or just the rights to the variable monster toy. If a deal exists then Bandai may opt to make their own in the same scale.

The latter is most likely the case.

We won't know for sure until some sort of announcement is made by either side or Graham gets wind of a deal through his sources at Yammie that he can talk about.

I think we will hear something next week from the Shizuouka Hobby Show.

There is a conspicuous absence of the VB-6 from Yamato and a surprising introduction of a Mac 7 valk (something Yammie never had before) by a company who never before released valks from that Bandai sponsored show. Considering how prominently the monster was shown in Frontier and all the re-issues of Macross merchandise these days, I suspect the VB-6's absence may be due to a quiet deal between the two companies.

I think the deal would be for specific designs and all related variants. For example, whoever's got the Fire Valkyrie license can make a VF-19P, and VF-19F/S Blazer Valkyries. The VF-19A is nearly identical save for paint to the YF-19, so I can see Yamato doing that eventually. I can also see them releasing VFX-2 and Macross 7 versions of the VF-11C & VF-22. VF-11 including the D model Jamming birds version.

Meanwhile, I can see Bandai making the VF-171 DX, then making a VF100's VF-17 to test the waters, and then making a VF-17 DX if there is enough demand. I can also see them introducing Destroids in the VF100's line, going by a similar name, like Destoy100's, including all SDF Macross Detroids, including the original Monster, then enemy mecha. This still leaves Yamato open to make enemy mecha and further destroids in 1/60 scale.

So in this scenario, neither company overlaps.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

If Bandai ever produces a Köenig Monster, I hope it's a whole new one and better than Yamato's. I specially dislike the gaps at the wing roots in Bomber mode and the sagging arms.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I may bend for the 22 Millia... already dead sure gettin Max's 22.

[edwin3060]

I don't flame, I debate and abide by the rules here.

I think the kite saga, as well as this discussion, has shown that you do-- in both cases you jump in and give your opinion as though it were the truth without doing the proper research.

Zinjo: I'm not sure whether Bandai and Yamato traded the VF-22 for the VB-6, although I hope that they do. A 1/100 VB-6 KM Ranka ver. would be amazing, and boost their VF100s line! I also hope that Bandai would retool and solve the problems with the VB-6 sculpt, while maintaining the accuracy (unlike the DX toy! ) Otoh, Bandai and Yamato may well have traded Macross Zero and Macross Dynamite 7, given that Bandai is releasing VF-0s in their new 1/250 scale. Until we get more information, anything is just speculation!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I think the kite saga, as well as this discussion, has shown that you do-- in both cases you jump in and give your opinion as though it were the truth without doing the proper research.

Saga? Wow never knew you saw it that way. Then again, being that things tend to be blown out of epic proportions here, I shouldn't be surprised. Didn't need research to know that, I've been here long enough to witness it.

I'd really like to see a YF-19 in white with blue trim, dead on to the Model Graphix Hasegawa customs.

[Radd]

Anything is possible. Though, I suspect it's more likely that the VB-6 was not a big seller for Yamato to begin with, and they don't expect it's appearance in Frontier would change that for a re-release. They never did any repaints, either, back at the height of the toy's popularity.

I am looking forward to hearing what's up with Yamato and the M7 license. From one of Graham's comments (unless I'm misremembering) it sounded as if Bandai had let the M7 license lapse but was keeping pressure on Big West not to let anyone else have it. They may simply be happier to let Big West license M7 to another company while Bandai milks Frontier.

[Radd]

If it is a mecha by mecha deal, I doubt we'll see a VF-17 from either Yamato or Bandai. Bandai would not want Yamato releasing a VF-17, as they will likely release a VF-171. And Bandai is likely to concentrate on Frontier with the larger toys.

[505thAirborne]

If it is a mecha by mecha deal, I doubt we'll see a VF-17 from either Yamato or Bandai. Bandai would not want Yamato releasing a VF-17, as they will likely release a VF-171. And Bandai is likely to concentrate on Frontier with the larger toys.

I'll take a VF-171 before a VF-17!!

[edwin3060]

Saga? Wow never knew you saw it that way. Then again, being that things tend to be blown out of epic proportions here, I shouldn't be surprised. Didn't need research to know that, I've been here long enough to witness it.

There you go again pointing out your 'experience'-- if you haven't realised by now, my whole point is that assuming people know stuff just because they've been around awhile is wrong, just as assuming people don't know stuff because they are new is wrong. But whatever-- I've realized that quite a few people here don't seem to be able to admit their shortcomings.

505th: There are the 1/55s from Bandai . I think we'll see a VF-17 eventually, either in the VF100s line or the 1/250 line from Bandai. Who knows, if Bandai ever does a DX VF-171, they may even go back and do a 1/60 VF-17... not likely though.

Radd: If Yamato is able to get the licenses for all the Mac7 designs, I think I will be eating ramen for the rest of my life, lol.

[thankheaven]

Just don't get disappointed if it turns out that the VF-22 is a one time deal only and they can't make anymore M7 or D7 VF's.

Though i wouldn't be suprised if Yamato found a way to make a VF-11C since 95% of the work is already done.

Edited May 9, 2009 by thankheaven