Panel Lines, Sitckers and Weathering

[red2alpha]

Forgive me if this has been covered long before but I have a few questions about detaling my new, fresh from Nippon, 1/60 VF-1S from Yamato.

First the VF:

Last year I bought the VF-1A Woodland and detailed that. For marking I went to my hobby shop and bought a bunch of dry transfer decals for the numbers, that was easy, then, using my Xacto knife trimmed the stickers that came with the VF and applied them, making sure to burnish the stickers after appilication. That worked out pretty well but not perfect. I wanted to get the custom decals but was unable to find them.

For the panel lines I mixed a wash of Tamiya flat black and thinner (X-20?) and used a very fine brush to apply it to the panel lines using capillary action. It turned out okay, there was some bleed over but the effect was over all good and not very noticable, the Valk being woodland and larger.

Now I have the 1/60 scale VF-1S which is smaller and white and I'm afraid that the old method will ruin the finish. I have considered using a mechanical pencil for the lines but then that would mean spraying the entire thing down with a fixer, which would mean masking and blah, blah, blah...

So, how do you guys do it? That's pretty much it.

[mickyg]

I'll chime in on the panel lines here. I've got a Hikaru VF-1A that I plan to do this on. The plastic on these has an almost matte finish. I'm not sure if it's a matte clear coat or if the plastic is just textured that way. At any rate, it tends to soak up paint pretty well and with washes, it's hard not to discolour the plastic around the lines. I would recommend experimenting on some portions of the valk that won't be terribly visible. In my case, I'm trying first on the triple missle clusters. What I found, using thinned artist oil, is that the plastic will absorb a lot of paint, to the point that you'll need to use a great deal of thinner to wipe it off, and at the same time, probably remove most of the panel lining in the process. Needless to say, I haven't gotten it to stage that I'm ready to try it out on the valk itself yet! I will be experimenting on how long I leave it on before wiping it off and a few other things (how much to thin the paint beforehand, etc...) before I post my findings.

Check out W M Cheng's various buildups, he's got a fantastic technique and that's what I'm trying to emulate with mine. He hasn't, to my knowledge, done any v2 1/60s though.

Anyone care to chime in on their experiences? Maybe putting a clearcoat down first is advisable?

One more thing, don't go with the gundam marker approach. There's one member here who did this on his VF-1D and wasn't at all happy with the results (it soaks in really fast and doesn't come off like it does on other plastics).

Hope that helps!

[ron5864]

The Tamiya Weathering Kits are a snap for soot and dirt effects. Plus they are easy to apply and difficult to screw up.

[MechTech]

I HEAVILY advise you do a search under this or the "Models" section. It HAS been covered before, BUT VERY in depth and you'll miss A LOT of great advice! - MT

[alfye]

I HEAVILY advise you do a search under this or the "Models" section. It HAS been covered before, BUT VERY in depth and you'll miss A LOT of great advice! - MT

Here are:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29379

[red2alpha]

Thanks, all of you for the imput. Like I said, I knew I was beating a long dead horse here, but I had to ask.

[mickyg]

Thanks, all of you for the imput. Like I said, I knew I was beating a long dead horse here, but I had to ask.

I've done quite a lot of searching here (and elsewhere) and I've yet to find a definitive "how to" on panel lining a v2 Yamato. So although the topic of panel lining and weathering models and other toys has been covered in great detail (and might be a dead horse) I think the v2 deserves its own approach.

That said, most of the pics I've seen that the owners have commented on, were done with the Tamiya weathering kit. It wasn't mentioned if they'd done the panel lines with it or just the weathering itself. I picked up a kit the other day and will give it a try this week. I'll let you know how it goes.

By the way, the thinned oil approach didn't work out so well for me - it just smeared into the white paint and was so hard to remove that I ended up having to use so much thinner that the lines came off too. I also found the paint never really dried, as I was able to rub it off with a finger 2 days later. The end result after getting off all the wash that the plastic just a touch darker than the original. As I mentioned, I tried this on the triple missle cluster so as not to mess up the valk. I think applying a clearcoat with this kind of plastic is going to be a must before going the oil wash method. Whatever the finish is on the plastic of the v2s is just too absorbant.

[red2alpha]

I looked of the link that alfye added to his post ( thank you by the way) and, that led me to another and still another and so on. What I came up with was stay away from Gundam pens, even if they do look very tempting. And they do. When I got my VF-1S I also got the two Destroids, tomahawk and Defender, those I can handle, I'm a long time Panzer model builder and weathering those shouldn't be to diffrent than weather tanks, after all they are ground mecha and subject to the elements, rain, mud, dust ect. I might post some pics of those when I'm done.

However, an aircraft is diffrent and the VF-1S is the holy grail for me, espically one of this quality. I had a 1/55 chunky monkey when I was a kid, it started life as the Autobot Jetfire but thanks to the Revel decal sheet it didn't stay that way long. Like I said before, I did the panel lines on my VF-1A woodland but there is now way I'm going to ruin my 1S with half tested attempts. Well, thanks for all the help and suggestions. Off to the drawing board.

[mickyg]

Hi there Red,

Just another quick note on the oil wash technique. I think I got bored and decided to dive into this last night. Turns out my previous attempt was a bit flawed. I mixed the thinner and oils but was way heavy on the oils. If you have the proper proportion of thinner to artist oils right, it's actually not bad. Anyway, the "proper" proportion is probably the consistency of milk and the idea is to get the liquid to flow into the panel lines. If I understand correctly, the effect after applying is a lot of blotches where you've applied and connecting lines (the panel lines) between your blotches.

Here's some early results on my 1A:

Not sure if you can tell but the effect is a bit spotty in some places. I think I didn't thoroughly mix the wash before applying. Oh, and I got rid of the excess using a Qtip dampened with thinner (low odor turpentine). Despite what I mentioned about the porous nature of the plastic, if the wash is thin enough, it comes off just fine.

[colint]

Try using watered down chalk - the results are really good, and its much less hassle than using oil-based paint.

I used to use thinned umber oil, but it was a pain when you made a mistake - with chalk you only have to wash it off again

When I get time I'll post pictures of some of the stuff I've done

Colin.

[Noyhauser]

Hi there Red,

Just another quick note on the oil wash technique. I think I got bored and decided to dive into this last night. Turns out my previous attempt was a bit flawed. I mixed the thinner and oils but was way heavy on the oils. If you have the proper proportion of thinner to artist oils right, it's actually not bad. Anyway, the "proper" proportion is probably the consistency of milk and the idea is to get the liquid to flow into the panel lines. If I understand correctly, the effect after applying is a lot of blotches where you've applied and connecting lines (the panel lines) between your blotches.

Here's some early results on my 1A:

Not sure if you can tell but the effect is a bit spotty in some places. I think I didn't thoroughly mix the wash before applying. Oh, and I got rid of the excess using a Qtip dampened with thinner (low odor turpentine). Despite what I mentioned about the porous nature of the plastic, if the wash is thin enough, it comes off just fine.

I'm Noy and I approve of this message

[mickyg]

I'm Noy and I approve of this message

Thanks Noy! I think...

Here's the end result after taking the plunge! There's still a lot more to do but I got impatient and wanted to see how it'd look. There's a bit of a "dirty" look to the plastic when it's all done so if you're not wanting that, you might have to put some extra effort in to wipe the panels down after the wash has dried.

FYI - this was probably a 50/50 mix of white and black artist oil and then thinned down almost equally with low odor thinner (varsol/turpentine/etc...). You'll know it's right when it separates out and it looks like there's equal portions of thinner to paint. Also, I let this dry for almost 24 hours and didn't have any real trouble wiping it off after that long. Stubborn areas required a bit thinner on the paper towel or cotton swab I was using (just damp).

Apologies for the quality. The first pics were taken with a decent camera, these were on my phone.

[dodgethis]

Had the same issues when I panel-lined my VF-0 and VF-1 with Tamiya enamels. Got around the stains by using some polishing compound on a cotton bud to remove them. Rub lightly though. You don't want to get a glossy finish.

[derex3592]

Ok...hey guys...LONG time reader, first time poster....I have panel lined my 1:48 VF-1S and an old 1:60 ver 1 VF-1D and a Masterpiece Alpha and Beta here lately, and used the smallest Pentech (or whatever they are called) marker available. That worked out great and all.......BUT I now have 5 of these new 1:60 Ver 2 valks to deal with....I've been reading along here, and I use to model build in high school and I do have an airbrush and used to be halfway descent. So my question is this...the marker approach aint workin on these, the lines are simply too thin. Tried a very small mechanical pencil too....ok, but not great..too shiny...

How do you go about doing these "washes"? oil or chalk? Would like to weather these too...might order the cheap weathering kits someone mentioned above...Any help greatly appreciated....and I'm not scared to try some things.....LOL! I want these to look goood in the display case eventually!

[mickyg]

Hi Derex and welcome from a fellow long time reader, fairly recent poster!

I did some model building about 10 years ago myself and NEVER panel lined or applied any kind of weathering whatsoever. And you could tell, too! So this advice is basically from a complete noob.

The oil wash I did came out really well and it was the first time I'd ever done anything like it. Kinda scary to do on such an expensive toy, I know! At any rate, it wasn't really difficult, not terribly complicated and I think the results are pretty good. Plus, it's cheap! I think I spent less than $10 on all the supplies.

To to recap my method (which can be found by several others on the board as well, frequently in the model buildups that WM Cheng posts):

1. Get some artist oil paints in 3 colours: black, white, brown
2. Grab some oil thinner - turpentine or a derivative is what you'll need but I highly recommend the low odour type. If you're doing it indoors, it won't stink up the house!
3. For white parts mix up a light grey colour (lots of white, a little bit of black) and mix that up with at least the same amount of thinner. Aim for a milk consistency.
4. For darker colours, experiment with the wash colour. I ended up using the same shade for the black, red and white on mine but it depends on what you're after
5. The consistency of the wash needs to be pretty thin. You're wanting it to "run" down the panel lines when you apply a "spot" to the surface.
6. I highly recommend testing this out on a model or something so you get the hang of it. It won't kill your VF but might save you a bit of extra, unnecessary cleanup and some frustration in the long run (I should take my own advice!).
7. Moving along, with a brush, dip it into the wash, but don't saturate the brush
8. Then apply the wash by touching it to a panel line. I found the wash tended to flow quite easily and occasionally pool up where it dripped. Not too big a deal but be prepared for that.
9. Let it dry for a couple of hours at least (even 24 worked OK for me) and wipe off the excess with a cotton swab or paper towel. Any areas that are stubborn, you can dampen the towel or swab in thinner and have better luck.

If you want an easier time of this, you can also precoat the whole thing in a gloss clear coat. I didn't and probably needed to spend a bit more time wiping the wash off than if I had. Still, not necessary to get the job done though.

I can post up some better quality pics if that's of any use to you.

[derex3592]

Thanks so much for the helpful info. Any more pics would be fantastic! I'm gonna attempt this on some old 1:72 scale planes that I could care less about and then step up to the valks when I feel right about it. Now...how to find time off from work and the gf to find time to do all this....hmmmm....lol!