Learning Japanese

[sketchley]

Something that has been mentioned a couple time is to get a Japanese girlfriend. I disagree that this is the best way to learn japanese, due to the differences in masculine and feminine forms. You dont want to end up talking like a girl.

So obviously you should find guys to talk to on a regular basis. Ideal place would be to work in an environment that is mostly men, who do not use english at all. Ive worked in a couple Japanese factories and learned tons of stuff I would have never learned otherwise, slang for tools, troubleshooting terms, shorthand for long technical jargon, what to scream(in a manlyman voice of course, not a girlygirl morning musume wanabe squeal:) when your thumb gets caught in the kensamaetoretoridashiisaisohosei.

When guys come over to Japan a common thing for them to do is to teach english to earn a living, this IMHO is a big mistake if you want to learn Japanese. One of my friends here has been living here longer than me, but is clueless on speaking japanese because he uses english day in day out both at home and at work teaching english.

The lead singer of Kiss is the most noteable person that I can remember recommending people to get a boyfriend/girlfriend in the target language. Even if you may end up sounding transgender, it's still the best way - and probably the most fun you'll have learning anything. Of course, this is presuming that the person taking this advice is starting from zero, or is a beginner of the language - as it's quite difficult to make friends if one can't even string together the most basic of sentences.

I do agree with finding friends of the same gender, and especially the point about making friends who don't use English nor have any interest in English. For starters, they'll still be your friends even if you stop using English to converse with them. Not to mention that they'll be more normal friends that you could develop into life-long friends.

It is true that having a work environment in English does slow down the pace of language acquisition, however we have to work to live. Short of coming to go exclusively to school, the options are limited. How many companies are going to hirer a foreigner who doesn't speak the language and won't use English? The trick is to use Japanese as much as possible at work, and virtually all the time out of work.

But yeah, I've heard of guys who've been here 35+ years, and they don't speak a word...

Edited April 15, 2009 by sketchley

[eugimon]

Keep in mind that language acquisition starts inside the womb - hearing the mother's and father's voices. I'm not sure how it applies to Japanese (as words are generally non-stressed), but with English there is a clear distinction between content and function words. Tests have shown that newborns respond to content words much more than function words.

Therefore, years in school only counts towards reading and writing, IMHO. Actual speaking begins around the end of 1 or middle of 2. Listening begins earlier. So, if you're 20, you're 20 years behind a native speaker AND at a disadvantage because you're not immersed in the language (if you're not in Japan, that is).

(example content words: tree, run happy. example function words: a, of, or.)

It's not just that, after a certain point the brain loses the plasticity needed to be able to map new sounds with ease. While there's a lot of overlap between english and japanese, korean and mandarin and especially cantonese and the other southern chinese dialects there are certain sounds native to each language that aren't found in either. One of the hardest things in learning to differentiate these sounds or tones, especially in conversation and then to be also be able to replicate it.

[sketchley]

Ah yes... but we don't want to scare them off of learning languages, do we?

For those not worried about being scared off, read on:

The age when it happens is about puberty. If you've reproduced a sound in a foreign language all of once (possibly more, may be getting my facts wrong) before that magic age, you'll be able to reproduce it correctly any time thereafter. If you learn the sound after that age, it'll take years, if at all, to learn to reproduce it correctly.

Another difference, is that during puberty the analytical parts of the brain are activated. Which is why us big kids get more out of learning grammer rules et al than the repeat after me, Johnny can do it, so can I way that kids learn.

The flip side is that when learning the basics analytically, it's not like a native speaker, the rules are easily forgotten/confused and one is more than well aware of the size and amount of effort needed to learn - the dictionary stops being a fun place to learn dirty words from as we realize that all of the knowledge in that thick book must be crammed into our small heads.

So yeah, get a girlfriend (or boyfriend), and you'll kind of return to the fun of looking up dirty words in books.

[eugimon]

Ah yes... but we don't want to scare them off of learning languages, do we?

For those not worried about being scared off, read on:

The age when it happens is about puberty. If you've reproduced a sound in a foreign language all of once (possibly more, may be getting my facts wrong) before that magic age, you'll be able to reproduce it correctly any time thereafter. If you learn the sound after that age, it'll take years, if at all, to learn to reproduce it correctly.

Another difference, is that during puberty the analytical parts of the brain are activated. Which is why us big kids get more out of learning grammer rules et al than the repeat after me, Johnny can do it, so can I way that kids learn.

The flip side is that when learning the basics analytically, it's not like a native speaker, the rules are easily forgotten/confused and one is more than well aware of the size and amount of effort needed to learn - the dictionary stops being a fun place to learn dirty words from as we realize that all of the knowledge in that thick book must be crammed into our small heads.

So yeah, get a girlfriend (or boyfriend), and you'll kind of return to the fun of looking up dirty words in books.

yeah, most everything brain related pretty much codifies with the end of puberty but the magic age to be exposed to multi-languages is around 5 to 6 months! It's at that age when babies really start purposefully vocalizing so it's age they should be exposed to as many languages and encouraged to vocalize in them as possible.

More recent studies suggest that babies raised in multilingual homes have more flexible minds and are able to grasp new concepts or divergent concepts simultaneously much better than children raised in single language homes.

[DJ Loe Kee]

Ah yes... but we don't want to scare them off of learning languages, do we?

For those not worried about being scared off, read on:

The age when it happens is about puberty. If you've reproduced a sound in a foreign language all of once (possibly more, may be getting my facts wrong) before that magic age, you'll be able to reproduce it correctly any time thereafter. If you learn the sound after that age, it'll take years, if at all, to learn to reproduce it correctly.

Another difference, is that during puberty the analytical parts of the brain are activated. Which is why us big kids get more out of learning grammer rules et al than the repeat after me, Johnny can do it, so can I way that kids learn.

The flip side is that when learning the basics analytically, it's not like a native speaker, the rules are easily forgotten/confused and one is more than well aware of the size and amount of effort needed to learn - the dictionary stops being a fun place to learn dirty words from as we realize that all of the knowledge in that thick book must be crammed into our small heads.

So yeah, get a girlfriend (or boyfriend), and you'll kind of return to the fun of looking up dirty words in books.

i'll add a reason to learn a foreign language. i don't have a "source", this comes from my supervisor (who is fluent in spanish, he went to mexico for a couple months to learn the language). he told me that there's research that shows learning a second language extends a person's life expectancy..

Edited April 15, 2009 by DJ Loe Kee

[Bri]

The ability to learn languages as an adult is quite depended on the individual. Learning is a skill. As child you learn to learn as it were.

The capacity to learn is rather similar to muscle usuage, it you don't use your brain to learn the ability becomes weaker over time. This is really were the current generations of say below 40 have an advantage over previous generations. When you stop learning, routine kicks in, the mind fixates, starts to specialise in what you already know and it becomes much harder to absorb new information after a while.

Adults do retain the ability to learn languages fast. Some psychologists claim adults are even better at it then childern due to improved analytical skils and a greater awareness of figurative concepts and non-verbal communication.

The advantage of young childern is really in the area of memory and time. Dedicated teacher like parents and school teachers plus not having to work for a living gives them so much extra time to work woth a language. This is why having a boy or girlfriend in the target language is so benificial. They act as a pseudo parent in the other language. The main pitfall ofr adults is motivation. They are aware of how much bloody work it is and may give up, a child has no such option.

[eugimon]

yeah, I didn't mean to imply an adult couldn't learn a new language, just that there is a window of time where it's easier... especially if the goal is to be perfectly fluent in conversation. This is especially true when trying to learn a tonal language. Western ears and even korean and japanese ears just aren't tuned to be able to easily pick up the nuances. Of course it's capable to learn but it's easier if you were exposed during infancy.

[sketchley]

The ability to learn languages as an adult is quite depended on the individual. Learning is a skill. As child you learn to learn as it were.

The capacity to learn is rather similar to muscle usuage, it you don't use your brain to learn the ability becomes weaker over time. This is really were the current generations of say below 40 have an advantage over previous generations. When you stop learning, routine kicks in, the mind fixates, starts to specialise in what you already know and it becomes much harder to absorb new information after a while.

True, true. Though I feel that it must be added that some people just have a knack for picking up languages. I wish I could remember the name of that specific part of the brain that some have, and most do not, but as it was a term in the midst of a Korean show that I saw while living in Korea... my crusted over brain can't even remember if it was an English term, or not!

Adults do retain the ability to learn languages fast. Some psychologists claim adults are even better at it then childern due to improved analytical skils and a greater awareness of figurative concepts and non-verbal communication.

Nods. I remember the day in Korea when I suddenly realized that all of the Sino-Korean words (about one or two thirds of the language) are extremely similar to Sino-Japanese words (about one or two thirds of the language), and just having undergone a phonological change that just occured to me. My vocabularly in Korean expanded by a couple of magnitudes in a matter of seconds. It frustrates me no end when I try and convey it all to my Japanese students...

So yeah, analytical mind at work. But I still can't string together anything but a basic sentence in Korean, and I definitely miss a lot of stuff that I would've learned by copying, as kids do. So, I figure what the psychologists are trying to say is that adults can quickly acquire a vast sum of the basics of the target language, but it's the kids who, despite having a lower total sum, acquire finessed, native-speaker-like abilities.

The advantage of young childern is really in the area of memory (...)

I disagree. I teach kids, and the majority of them learn something one week, and forget it by the next week, and have to be reminded of it for another few weeks, or months, or even years, before it sticks in their head and they use it actively. (Caveat: this is based on 1 40 minute lesson per week. My son, who learns daily from me, learns stuff, but forgets went to use it.)

So yeah, kids have the potential of learning vast sums extremely quickly, but they are equally capable of forgetting it in an equivalent time period. Adults may not learn as much in the same period, but they tend to retain far more of what they've learned. Kids have the advantage.

The main pitfall ofr adults is motivation.

This has to be stressed to all learners of all things. Make yourself more than one goal in the target language (a girlfriend is a good, multi-goal motivation).

[Bri]

So yeah, analytical mind at work. But I still can't string together anything but a basic sentence in Korean, and I definitely miss a lot of stuff that I would've learned by copying, as kids do. So, I figure what the psychologists are trying to say is that adults can quickly acquire a vast sum of the basics of the target language, but it's the kids who, despite having a lower total sum, acquire finessed, native-speaker-like abilities.

That is certainly true, I just wonder if the native speaker like abilites aquired by children are due to an age based superior ability to aborb language details, or the fact they are being raised in a native speaker environment. Something an non-native adult can not easily copy.

As a side note: I've met collegues who were former refugees from Vietnam who learned accentless Dutch from scratch in less then 2 years. They still have some problems adapting to certain situations but thats due to cultural differences not language. It's easy to correct a child when they do something that is socially unacceptable. Much harder it is to show that same honesty to a foreign adult for fear of offending.

So yeah, kids have the potential of learning vast sums extremely quickly, but they are equally capable of forgetting it in an equivalent time period. Adults may not learn as much in the same period, but they tend to retain far more of what they've learned. Kids have the advantage.

Oh yes, children do pick up things faster. My aim was to show it is still very usefull for adults to try and learn a new language as getting (close) to native level speaking level is hard but not impossible.

[eugimon]

Bri, there are some people who have brains that are more tuned for learning languages, polyglots. My wife is like this, she not only picks up words faster and grammatical structures faster than most people, she's able to approximate not just the accent but the particular rhythms of the languages she picks up and she retains that information even after years of non use. It's pretty startling.

Some of that is natural, scientists think that polyglot brains are actually physically different than other people's, even people who are multilingual. On the other hand, her early education focused heavily on rote memorization... a method of learning that comes in handy when trying to learn a new language.

There's also something to consider when thinking about what "fluency" is. For some people, the various languages are perfectly interchangeable, "compound bilinguals" and for some people, each language is separate, "coordinate bilinguals" My sister is the former, in her everyday speech she can interchange korean or japanese words into an otherwise normal english sentence: Umma, when are we eating bap? For me, once I start a sentence in one language I have a hard time finishing the sentence in anything but that language. I also tend to say english words with the appropriate accent even though when I speak english, I speak with no accent (I am american born and educated).

[Bri]

Amazing that she is able to get information that fast in her long term memory. Normally, people have to practise reguarly to maintain their language skills.

I thought that people who exchange words between languages easily are generally raised bi-lingually. They have one concept of language and words and see the words from both languages as synonyms. It's quite common with immigrant children here but they have to be careful not to mix grammar.

Seperate languages is normal when one learned the primary language first and a second (or more) later. I guess that's the same for both of us. I can think in both Dutch and English altough switching between the two takes a second. Thing is that some character traits come across stronger in one language or the other. It's funny when I hear from others that I act differently when I speak one language or the other, heh. Also mental conditioning from childhood does not transfer between languages which is great fun. Essentially I find I can say things in one language that I would have a hard time saying in my mother tongue.

To get back on topic I hope to be able to think in Japanese in a while too. That is the big step between passive and active knowledge of a language. To that end seeing actors on television link words to actions (without subtitles) and gestures speeds the learning process up so much. The main problem for me sofar is the limitied vocabulary and that will require ye olde cramming from a textbook/dictionary.

[sketchley]

Now that raises an interesting question: do we really think in any language, at all?

It took me a while to figure it out, but I've found that I tend to think visually (depending on what type of brain you have, you may be the same, you may think differently; such as sounds, smells, movements, etc., etc.). Once I figured that out, I started to append the words in the target language to the images that I use to think in; as opposed to appending them to the English words.

It took a couple of years, but I've reached the point where I don't have to translate in my head, I only have to rearrange the word order (SVO for English/French, SOV for Japanese/Korean). The words are interchangeable (I think this is something similar to what eugimon's sister is doing).

As for particles/function words... despite years... decades of learning the rules, I never could get them to work. So, I gave up and just watched TV and read stuff in the target language. And simply from exposure, I'm using them, largely correctly, based on gut feeling. Which, is exactly how I learned to use function words in my native language (English).

[Gubaba]

Now that raises an interesting question: do we really think in any language, at all?

It took me a while to figure it out, but I've found that I tend to think visually (depending on what type of brain you have, you may be the same, you may think differently; such as sounds, smells, movements, etc., etc.). Once I figured that out, I started to append the words in the target language to the images that I use to think in; as opposed to appending them to the English words.

It took a couple of years, but I've reached the point where I don't have to translate in my head, I only have to rearrange the word order (SVO for English/French, SOV for Japanese/Korean). The words are interchangeable (I think this is something similar to what eugimon's sister is doing).

As for particles/function words... despite years... decades of learning the rules, I never could get them to work. So, I gave up and just watched TV and read stuff in the target language. And simply from exposure, I'm using them, largely correctly, based on gut feeling. Which, is exactly how I learned to use function words in my native language (English).

I'll second that. Gut feeling DOES work, but you have to get to a pretty high level of competence before you can even try it out. I can't tell you how many times I got a question on my Japanese class tests right, not because I studied the textbook hard, but because I was watching "Pa-Pa-Pa-Pa-Puffy" over and over again.

I was introduced to concepts in the classroom, but watching variety shows with lots of food cemented them in my head.

(That said, I'm an extrodinarily verbal person, and I do often (not always) think in language. Sometimes I think in English, sometimes in Japanese...sometimes (very rarely) in French or German.)

[DJ Loe Kee]

Now that raises an interesting question: do we really think in any language, at all?

It took me a while to figure it out, but I've found that I tend to think visually (depending on what type of brain you have, you may be the same, you may think differently; such as sounds, smells, movements, etc., etc.). Once I figured that out, I started to append the words in the target language to the images that I use to think in; as opposed to appending them to the English words.

It took a couple of years, but I've reached the point where I don't have to translate in my head, I only have to rearrange the word order (SVO for English/French, SOV for Japanese/Korean). The words are interchangeable (I think this is something similar to what eugimon's sister is doing).

As for particles/function words... despite years... decades of learning the rules, I never could get them to work. So, I gave up and just watched TV and read stuff in the target language. And simply from exposure, I'm using them, largely correctly, based on gut feeling. Which, is exactly how I learned to use function words in my native language (English).

i think in english. i can think in ebonics too but that is it not even a real language, no matter what oakland wants to believe (make them speak proper english instead of them complaining that i speak proper english). i wish that i could think in creole (a french dialect).

[big F]

Man, I hate Roppongi.

I was waiting for one of my friends in front of Almond once, and one of the African "Hey, come to my club, come to my club" guys walked up, trying to give me a flyer. I told him no thanks and he said, "What, you don't like titties?" and stood there glaring at me.

I told him I was meeting my girlfriend (untrue), and he finally left.

Hell, I pretended to be German to get away from those guys once...

LOL the exact same thing happened to me a few years ago out side Cafe Almond I too spoke to him in German and he then just got his buddy who spoke German, so I had to explain to him I wasn't interested in German, looked worse when he saw me and my English friends later that night all speaking English. LOL Roppogi gawd!! that place is two diiferent worlds by day and night.

I learnt some Japanses from frase books and Anime and then from a class for a year with a Japanese teacher. That helped no end as she did the formal and casual speaking, along with writing. Although I have not been in Japan for over a year now I still remember a lot. I am geting rusty though.

Oddly while in Amsterdam last year for work I got a cab driver who spoke Japanese, we spent the whole journey speaking in Japanese and english much to the anyoyance of my collegues in the cab, it was great to get someone who actually wanted to speak to me in Japanese who wasnt Japanese.

The best way is to actually be there though a friend of mine is now an interpreter due to spending 10+ years living in Tokyo. He started with the get a Japanese girlfriend and learn Kanji by looking at them and remembering funny dog on side means.... and tree means exit etc, now he does translation work for a comic company, and guides rich torists and does company meetings etc

If you work at it long enough it will come to you.

[VFTF1]

I learned Polish reading Polish versions of the Marvel Transformers comic books. Also thanks to watching Dynasty in Poland with a Polish voice over (literally voice over - as in, the engish is spoken and a Polish guy just talks over it)...

I've been learning French since I was little. I'm really really bad at it, but I can read Tintin comics and know what's being said, and once managed to pick up three French chicks in Kalamazoo Michigan, take them to dinner and convince them to go stay at my house (well, at the house that was owned by my room-mate who was a carpenter who was renting me a room). He was very happy that I was living with him when he came home to find three French girls in the house They were kind of scared of all his guns though - but hey - it's America ...

Since then, I've been really bummed about not knowing any more languages because there's so much great stuff out there that remains inaccessible to me or where I need intermediaries.

All you guys who have taken the time to learn Japanese are cool. I wish I did it and hope that maybe one day I'll do it

Pete

[DJ Loe Kee]

even though you have a textbook (i think), i found this websites on google.

http://www.learn-japanese.info/indexspeak.html

^this site has audio, real importatant for self-study.

http://www.freejapaneselessons.com

http://www.learnjapanesefree.com

http://learnjapanese.elanguageschool.net

http://www.easyjapanese.org

http://www.studyjapanese.org

i used my online tutorials more than my textbook until i found a private tutor (ok, so i was lazy and that was the real reason why).

http://www.kosnet.go.kr

http://korean.sogang.ac.kr

http://www.mct.go.kr/hangeul/index.html

http://learn-korean.info

http://learnkorean.elanguageschool.net

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com

http://catcode.com/kintro

Edited April 19, 2009 by DJ Loe Kee

[Kicker773]

what about that software everyone's raving about? Rosetta Stone or somoething, i've heard good reviews about it, but I haven't had the chance to pick it up. I would really like to learn Japanese and looking for a japanese gf is out of the questions since I already have a GF, but a penpal would be great.

[Lindem Herz]

what about that software everyone's raving about? Rosetta Stone or somoething, i've heard good reviews about it, but I haven't had the chance to pick it up. I would really like to learn Japanese and looking for a japanese gf is out of the questions since I already have a GF, but a penpal would be great.

Never really worked for me in languages for which I didn't already have some skills (Latin and Korean. oh god, KOREAN T_T), but maybe I never gave it a really SERIOUS (a 6 hours a day everyday kind of) try. On the other hand, for the languages I already had some basic abilities in (French, Mandarin), it works wonders on my vocabulary. Careful, though, native speakers tend to say that some expressions that appear in RS are ridiculously inaccurate (and, at least for Spanish, yeah, some of them are. Quite a few, actually, but they exist).

Edited May 2, 2009 by Lindem Herz

[Valkyrie]

It seems whenever I tell someone I'm studying Japanese, they tell me "You should try that rosetta stone thing", despite never having used it themselves. But no. Not for me. I'm highly skeptical that rosetta stone could get me fluent, in any length of time. Fluency will only come from studying how real people really talk.

If you're serious about learning Japanese, I highly recommend the AJATT method. Go to alljapaneseallthetime.com and start reading. Then download the sample chapters of Remebering the Kanji and an SRS program like Anki (both are free), and start studying.

Shoot me a PM if you need some help getting started.

[MilSpex]

I'll second that. Gut feeling DOES work, but you have to get to a pretty high level of competence before you can even try it out. I can't tell you how many times I got a question on my Japanese class tests right, not because I studied the textbook hard, but because I was watching "Pa-Pa-Pa-Pa-Puffy" over and over again.

I was introduced to concepts in the classroom, but watching variety shows with lots of food cemented them in my head.

(That said, I'm an extrodinarily verbal person, and I do often (not always) think in language. Sometimes I think in English, sometimes in Japanese...sometimes (very rarely) in French or German.)

Yes and no for me. I spent a year at a Japanese university trying to learn the language. After about a month I stopped going to class because I couldn`t understand a word of what was going on. Spent most of my time in my room watching Jap TV (sad yeah I know!) and although my pronunciation and listening improved I still couldn`t string a sentence together after a year. For me at least it needs to be a combination of study and exposure but I`m not good at study and lose focus after 5 minutes, all the words just blend together, (some kind of mild epilepsy or something?). Anyway thats why after 10 years (5 while living in Japan) of on and off study I still haven`t really picked up the language. Study is important.

[sketchley]

Rosetta stone? Plenty of commercials for it on tv here (Japan). As an English language teacher, I can say that it's more on gimmick and short on the other stuff. But that's just my impression of the English version. No clue on the Japanese.

See my posts earlier in this thread regarding learning Japanese for more info.

[DJ Loe Kee]

what about that software everyone's raving about? Rosetta Stone or somoething, i've heard good reviews about it, but I haven't had the chance to pick it up. I would really like to learn Japanese and looking for a japanese gf is out of the questions since I already have a GF, but a penpal would be great.

i have rosetta stone on my pc, i've used it twice. the first time was when i first started studying korean and i didn't like it. the japanese and korean version doesn't teach you how to read and write. i went back to the website (and my book) that i was using. i went back to rosetta stone about a month ago and it really does help. i went through lesson one and i was able to match most of the pictures to the words that they said. but i already knew what the words meant thanks to my private tutor and book. so, i see it as a supplement to my book but i haven't bothered to use it again (i bought some index cards, cut them in half, and i wrote in korean script/hangeul on one side with the english definition on the other side; and i like that method better. i also found my index cards of hiragana, katakana and japanese vocab from my college japanese class while i was cleaning up one day). so, i wouldn't use rosetta stone by itself.

if anybody wants to try it out, pm me and i'll give you my "Rosetta Stone - Korean Explorer [Retail] [PC & Mac]" megaupload link. i'm not sure if i would get in trouble for posting my link on MW or not. it has 24 languages on it but it only has the first 2 or 3 lessons.

24 Languages

Korean

Arabic

Chinese (Mandarin)

Welsh

Danish

German

English (UK)

English (US)

Spanish (Latin America)

French

Hebrew

Hindi

Indonesian

Italian

Japanese

Swahili

Latin

Dutch

Polish

Portuguese

Russian

Thai

Turkish

Vietnamese

edit:

it doesn't teach you grammar either. i knew (but i didn't have memorized) the grammar particles (-i, -ka, -neun, -eun, -leul, -eul, ect. korean particles and "underneath object", "above object", ect.. the only japanese grammar particle i know is "no").

Edited May 2, 2009 by DJ Loe Kee

[akt_m]

Whatever i saw at english courses, i don't remember anything anymore. I probably learned a lot more of english from playing Fallout 1 and 2, which made me associate words with actions and images.

Does anyone knows the name of a good kanji dictionary software??? Would be good to find one i can write the kanji instead of trying to find it... (i have a stylus so writing them wouldn't be dificult). I know that at vista premium it has a hand writing recognition program for japanese, but i'm using XP. Also trying to find a japanese - english translator software or japanese - portuguese if there is one...

I know a little of japanese (the fact i'm a japanese decendant helped a little) but it is not enough to understand raw manga or anime.

[DJ Loe Kee]

Whatever i saw at english courses, i don't remember anything anymore. I probably learned a lot more of english from playing Fallout 1 and 2, which made me associate words with actions and images.

Does anyone knows the name of a good kanji dictionary software??? Would be good to find one i can write the kanji instead of trying to find it... (i have a stylus so writing them wouldn't be dificult). I know that at vista premium it has a hand writing recognition program for japanese, but i'm using XP. Also trying to find a japanese - english translator software or japanese - portuguese if there is one...

I know a little of japanese (the fact i'm a japanese decendant helped a little) but it is not enough to understand raw manga or anime.

if you have the ms windows foreign language pack installed

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en

you can go into ms word and type using hiragana. i tried it once and it converted it into kanji automatically for me. my language class did show me the kanji for the words, just the hiragana.

i'm not sure if that will be of any help to you, i haven't tried it again in over 5 years.

Edited May 2, 2009 by DJ Loe Kee

[Valkyrie]

Whatever i saw at english courses, i don't remember anything anymore. I probably learned a lot more of english from playing Fallout 1 and 2, which made me associate words with actions and images.

Does anyone knows the name of a good kanji dictionary software??? Would be good to find one i can write the kanji instead of trying to find it... (i have a stylus so writing them wouldn't be dificult). I know that at vista premium it has a hand writing recognition program for japanese, but i'm using XP. Also trying to find a japanese - english translator software or japanese - portuguese if there is one...

I know a little of japanese (the fact i'm a japanese decendant helped a little) but it is not enough to understand raw manga or anime.

The best I've got for you there is this site;

http://jisho.org/kanji/radicals/

You just click on one or more radicals, and it pulls up a list of all the kanji that contain them.

[akt_m]

Thx that will help!

[Sulendil Ang]

Well, I'm interested to learn Japanese as well, but I don't really have the time to do so. I may choose an elective course if the university did offer the course.

Since I do know Chinese (both simplified and traditional), at least Kanji should be a easy one for me.

[Sir Galahad®]

Sometimes when I have difficulty I use this site when I used to work for a japanese company...

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C

[MilSpex]

Sometimes when I have difficulty I use this site when I used to work for a japanese company...

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C

yeah thats a great site because it gives furigana for all the kanji.

[Bob_Coffee]

If your serious about learning japanese, i also highly recomend getting a denshi jisho. its an expensive investment, although for the nintendo ds you can buy one realtively cheaply.

its pretty good aside from not having that many words as a dedicated denshi jiisho. Ive studied japanese for about 3 years class wise, im far from fluent, but atleast i can hold a conversation lol.

[Valkyrie]

If your serious about learning japanese, i also highly recomend getting a denshi jisho. its an expensive investment, although for the nintendo ds you can buy one realtively cheaply.

its pretty good aside from not having that many words as a dedicated denshi jiisho. Ive studied japanese for about 3 years class wise, im far from fluent, but atleast i can hold a conversation lol.

Actually, my iPhone is great for that. Jisho.org has an excellent iphone optimized site, and there are several excellent japanese learning apps, including dictionaries and flash card programs. It's a great platform for japanese students.

[DJ Loe Kee]

does anybody use declan's software?

http://www.declan-software.com

i read a good review for his korean version and i now have all four versions of it (i just need to install it after i swap out my bad hard drive for a new hard drive).

Declan's Korean Software Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declan-software.html

Declan's Korean Cards Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...flashcards.html

Declan's ReadWrite Korean Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...ite-korean.html

Declan's Korean Hakgyo Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...ean-hakgyo.html

Declan's Korean Dictionary Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...dictionary.html

so, i'm sure that his japanese and chinese versions are good too.

Declan's Japanese FlashCards

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/screenshots_djfc.htm

Declan's ReadWrite Kanji

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc...ots_rwkanji.htm

Declan's ReadWrite Hiragana

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc..._rwhiragana.htm

Declan's ReadWrite Katakana

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc..._rwkatakana.htm

Declan's Japanese Dictionary

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc...hots_djdict.htm

this seems alot better than rosetta stone.

[DJ Loe Kee]

does anybody use declan's software?

http://www.declan-software.com

i read a good review for his korean version and i now have all four versions of it (i just need to install it after i swap out my bad hard drive for a new hard drive).

Declan's Korean Software Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declan-software.html

Declan's Korean Cards Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...flashcards.html

Declan's ReadWrite Korean Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...ite-korean.html

Declan's Korean Hakgyo Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...ean-hakgyo.html

Declan's Korean Dictionary Review

http://www.learnkoreanlanguage.com/declans...dictionary.html

so, i'm sure that his japanese and chinese versions are good too.

Declan's Japanese FlashCards

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/screenshots_djfc.htm

Declan's ReadWrite Kanji

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc...ots_rwkanji.htm

Declan's ReadWrite Hiragana

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc..._rwhiragana.htm

Declan's ReadWrite Katakana

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc..._rwkatakana.htm

Declan's Japanese Dictionary

http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/sc...hots_djdict.htm

this seems alot better than rosetta stone.

i just installed the software (the full version) and it's way too short. you'd be better off buying a book.