MacrossMan Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 You guys will have to excuse my ignorance if this should have been obvious, but I have been checking out some of the models in Model Grafix in the magazines section. Is it me, do models, hands down, make toys look like; well toys! The detail and the difference in the molds are incredible! My question is why can't the toys have the kind of detail of the models? In an attempt to answer my own question I am going to assume the amount of detail work that goes into them is unrealistic for mass production? Even if that might be the answer, why do models have that "perfect" look that the toys don't?
mechaninac Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) Mass production; or more precisely, production costs is one reason: Toys, even complex ones, are made to have as few parts as possible to minimize the amount of assembly (not a factor in models since the buyer does the assembly) and reduce overall complexity to absolute minimum to make the toy work as desired. Ultimately, one of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, is the targeted buyer. Toys have to be designed with the compromise of playability in mind, even high end collector oriented items will require allowances for robustness which invariably will impact how the toy is engineered, and therefore, how it looks as compared to the source material. Even with today's higher attention to authenticity in design, the product intent will still affect the final product to varying degrees. With a model, most if not all, compromises that would be true to a toy can be ignored. Since the intended buying public are model builders who will invest endless hours and resources (depending on level of skill, patience, funds, etc.) to achieve perfection in the end product, the producer of a model can break down the components in any way they see fit to get the most detail and assembly flow to the buyer. Complexity, depending on subject, is irrelevant (most modelers welcome a challenge and more parts mean easier painting... less masking, and just engenders a "more bang for the buck" feel when the box is opened for the first time), and durability is not even a real issue... you're not supposed to play with your models; they're to sit pretty on display. Long winded way of saying that comparing toys to models is like comparing apples and oranges. Edited April 11, 2009 by mechaninac
CF18 Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 This is toy: http://www.toy-world.com.hk/forum/viewthre...;extra=page%3D1 This is model: http://www.dalong.net/review/etc/mf04/mf04_p.htm Professional model work and photography can make a big difference. And you already answered that those kind of professional work is impossible for mass production.
macross1979 Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 This is toy: http://www.toy-world.com.hk/forum/viewthre...;extra=page%3D1 This is model: http://www.dalong.net/review/etc/mf04/mf04_p.htm Professional model work and photography can make a big difference. And you already answered that those kind of professional work is impossible for mass production. Sorry MM...I don't really have a good answer for you on that one. But I needed to make a statement to CF18. Thanks for posting those awesome pics of Michaels(spelling) valk. It makes that toy look amazing. You are right though. Good photography makes a big difference.
miriya Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 Good question macrossman. The models of the VF-25 in the model magazines are pro-built all painted, detailed and weathered. When I built my VF-25 kit without painting but only panel lining, gundam marker and snap together it took about 9 hours or so to build. I would guess that the ones that are fully painted, lined, weathered, and detailed would take much much more time, maybe 20 or 30 hours?
505thAirborne Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 I'll take the models first, for a few reasons, one is they are cheaper in most cases, better designed, about as sturdy as some of the newer toys, you can customize them anyway you want and theres no risk in it loosing face value as a "collectors items" down the road. As for the Toys, most of these are considered Collectors items and should be left on display only or still in its box. Not played with. The moment you try to customize a toy, there goes its value. (((( However if you never plan selling your toys, disregard this notion )))) With the model kits, knock yourself out!! Even though it takes a long time for you to build a model and paint it, etc. Theres a big sense of satisfaction when your done. Plus if it should break, its a model and a little glue never hurt anyone. Big difference when a $200.00+ toy needs to be super glued!!
Jasonc Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 When it comes to the VF-25 models vs. the toys, I can't really provide an explanation. I don't have any of the kits, so my only guess is that although they do transform, they aren't build with the idea that they'll be transformed and played with like toys. That said, the materials are much less in cost, so some of that savings can go into detail? In most other cases, models are designed to be in a static condition (they mostly don't transform or even move too much off display cases. For that reason, the general model will have better detail, as it will be built in a position where other areas that aren't seen do not need to be as detailed as the external visual parts. I could be totally wrong, but some of that would make sense.
anime52k8 Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 I'll take the models first, for a few reasons, one is they are cheaper in most cases, better designed, about as sturdy as some of the newer toys, you can customize them anyway you want and theres no risk in it loosing face value as a "collectors items" down the road. As for the Toys, most of these are considered Collectors items and should be left on display only or still in its box. Not played with. The moment you try to customize a toy, there goes its value. (((( However if you never plan selling your toys, disregard this notion )))) With the model kits, knock yourself out!! Even though it takes a long time for you to build a model and paint it, etc. Theres a big sense of satisfaction when your done. Plus if it should break, its a model and a little glue never hurt anyone. Big difference when a $200.00+ toy needs to be super glued!! I'd hate to disagree but I disagree. while a kit may be cheaper when you start adding in all the incidental costs form all the supplies you need to finish the kit, it can end up being just as costly as a toy. Then there's the time put in to building it and how much that time is worth to you. And I wouldn't call them better designed either; designed with a different emphasis in mind would be more accurate. most models are designed to be as accurate as possible, and make major sacrifices to strength and playability as a result. A good toy can be safely posed and handled without any chance of breaking; even a great model kit can't say that. I personally buy toys for fun (I consider buying toys as collectors items/investments to be a waist of money). model kits look great but are a lot less fun than toys. you can't play with a model and building that model is usually more stressful/painful than fun.
Ghostkiller Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) toys are great fun but for models : it is a different story models are all different depending on what you goal is... the pleasure is that you do not have a mass production toy but something unique and it is great fun when you build it , we are all proud but sad when it is done.... regarding the price : trust me models are not really cheap "specialy when the favorite scale is 1/32" for real references models wins in term of accuracy but for anime I am not too sure as it is just anime at the end but just to bring on some confusion between models and toys : my last model which have a bit toy feature : trust me or not I can play with it removing engine , moving flaps , changing loads..... Edited April 12, 2009 by Ghostkiller
D_Unit Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) I'm not very good at putting models together or painting them. In fact the chances of me breaking down in an insane fit of rage, destroying the kit I was working on, then going outside on a mass rampage is very likely. It would be great the next time I visit my relatives in China to find a local artist that can paint/put together some kits for me. But since I much prefer diecast toys over nicely done models any day; I'd most likely to be paying someone for "adult" anime figurines instead (the hand painted ones are sooo much better/sexier than mass-produced versions). Edited April 12, 2009 by D_Unit
kanedaestes Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 I feel models are great for Gundams or anything that doesn't have a complex transformation. Over time the model doesn't tend to hold up after multiple transformations. Plus I am not that great of a modeler so I prefer toys. Toys are great, usually great to handle with, and can transform repeatedly without too many complications (yes there are some instances that isn't true but whatever). I love both but I leave my models for Gundams and the like, i prefer toys for variable figures.
Vifam7 Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Just to note - some model kits these days are starting to blur the lines between model kits and toys. These days, kits made by Bandai, Kotobukiya, and few other makers come pre-colored and snap-fit. They're relatively easy to build and playable if you wish to do so. Bandai's Gunpla and current VF-25 models can either be nice display pieces or playable action figures depending on how the builder wishes to complete it. And on the opposite end, some toys are nothing more than pre-built pre-painted model kits. Just as fragile too. Edited April 12, 2009 by Vifam7
SVF-Gerwalk Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Just to note - some model kits these days are starting to blur the lines between model kits and toys. These days, kits made by Bandai, Kotobukiya, and few other makers come pre-colored and snap-fit. They're relatively easy to build and playable if you wish to do so. Bandai's Gunpla and current VF-25 models can either be nice display pieces or playable action figures depending on how the builder wishes to complete it. And on the opposite end, some toys are nothing more than pre-built pre-painted model kits. Just as fragile too. Fully agree, plus you can make a model to be a toy but you cant make a toy to be a model Edited April 12, 2009 by SVF-Gerwalk
505thAirborne Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 Its always interesting how Toy buyers have a different view over Model kit builders, And though neither of us is right or wrong, its good to see we can share our opinions. I admit if you are just starting out making in model kits and getting the paints, putty, brushes, Airbrush machine that can be a costly start. on the other hand it is not that bad, You do not need an entire can of Tamiya spray paint for a single VF-1A. And though "anime52k8" you disagree with my point (And thats cool) I do see your point on what makes the TOY a better deal at times... I also agree with "Vifam7" in that many kits being made now a days are easy to build, pre -molded in color Like the VF-25 and especially Gundam Kits. My main point was this, between the VF-0 fighters being a nightmare, the new V.2 Valks having (not a lot) but some breakage issues, even the YF-19 is prone to problems, I'd rather spend less $$$ for something more detailed that is just as good on Display as it is or on a raid to destroy a Zentradi or Vajra fleet!!! But again some like a Steak medium rare, others well done, you order what you like!!!
Temjin Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 I like both Models and toys, but over the years I started to like toys a bit more. Sometimes when I look at a model, it does have that hollow empty feeling to it. Toys has more substance stuff in it, though one might think it should be other way around. I don't really get it. Ghostkiller, that's a cool engine!
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