EDF-1 Athanasius

[Aurel Tristen]

I haven't been around for a while, so I thought I'd post my current project. I normally don't do WIP type stuff, but I'd kinda like a documentation of the work flow anyway.

The idea was to design and build a 3D computer model of a fictional ship built between the SDF Macross, and Fronteir era. The first step was to write up the ships concept:

Completed: AD 2067

Operated by: UESF

Classification: Macross Type Gun Platform

Sub Class: Extra-orbital Attack and Defense

Statistics

Length: 110.3 Miles

Displacement: 45,000,000,000 tons

Propulsion: 50x OTEC Thermonuclear/Ion propulsion thrusters (Invertible), 12x Overtechnology Reflux Furnaces, 12x Ion propulsion Verner engines

Speed: Sea: 30 kmph, Air: 3 Mach below 10,000m, Space: Unlimited/Thermodynamic Barrier w/ Omnidirectional Deflection System

Range: 97 Years operation time

Sensors: OTEC 4 petaflop computing system, OTEC LIDAR, Conventional RADAR/SONAR/FLIR, OTEC Sub-dimensional Wave detector, Quadrant Division Breach Sensor Array, Advanced AI driven MARK-O Targeting system

Armament: Main: Pair annihilation driven vectorized SDE cannon (Polarized),

Auxiliary: 8x OTEC guided converging beam cannon system, 7 high-speed 178-cm-diameter electromagnetic rail cannons

Missiles: 1,200 self-guided multi-channeled medium maneuverability reflux missile plafroms, 1x Terrestrial Bombardment Cannon (Rail accelerated high mass projectile)

Armor: Level 1: 13in Hypercarbon Reflux Reactive

Level 2: 40in Hypercarbon Reflux Reactive

Level3: 50in Hypercarbon Reflux Reactive, Omnidirectional Deflection System

Deployable Craft: 4,000 VF-25 Valkyrie Fighters(Various Models), 950 VF-19s, 4,700 VF-171s

History

In 2015, The Earth government was looking for a new type of ship to supplement the colonial class Macross vessels. Colonial ships had the advantage of a large self sustainable civilian population feeding the military pilots, resources and longevity, but operating such a ship close to Earth seemed unnecessary. Why live on a big ship when you could take a short shuttle ride home? The government assigned OTECs Python Concepts division the responsibility of designing a brand new class of fortress that would carry more firepower, in exchange for less sustainability and comfort.

After 4 years of research and development, Python introduced the Codename Greek blueprints that laid the groundwork for the Athanasius. The designs included new untested technologies such as pair annihilation driven reactions and massive rail cannons. Despite its ambitious assertions, the design was blessed off on, and by 2021, production was well underway.

As it turned out, the pair annihilation theorem was a far greater contribution than any ship. In its wake came the development of the VF-25, and many of the weapons used on Frontier class ships. The rail cannon hybrid turned out to be less cost effective than originally thought, and considered far to violent for use in the defensive role.

In 2067, behind schedule and over budget, the EDF-1 Athanasius was completed in Earth orbit. Its construction drew .2% of Earth's resources, and required hundreds of thousands of trips to the asteroid belt for raw ore. All setback's aside, its success was legendary. Deploying just months after its launch to put down the 2nd largest Zentradi rebellion in history, the ship singlehandedly destroyed 97 Flagships, effectively decimating the attack force and causing the remainder to surrender. The battle was also notable, as the commander of the EDF-1 refused to utilize the Minmay Attack that could have saved many lives.

Weapons

The Polarized pair annihilation driven vectorized SDE cannon developed for the EDF-1 was intended to penetrate any shielding system, be it physical or electromagnetic, to end assaults by aliens utilizing yet unknown technologies. The idea was to 'Over kill' the problem to make up for any unknowns that might be encountered in the future. After its creation, many asked why such a weapon system was not used in any of the following colonial ships. The official answer always was that it wasn't cost effective, and took too much manpower to operate. In truth, the weapon was never very stable. Its operation put everyone aboard the ship at risk, a risk that could not be taken with a large population of civilians on board.

The long name for the weapon is but a short description of how it functions. The weapon draws from Super Dimensional Energy, is 'vectorized,' meaning it can be directed at point targets, and uses the pair annihilation technique to break up mater into energy, and vice versa. Energy fields tend to be 'downshifted' into carbon molecules, while metals are 'upshifted' into gamma rays, and other exotic particles.

The Terrestrial Bombardment Cannon was originally designed as a planet killer. Due to the huge amount of mass a planet has, energy weapons tend to be less cost effective. The output necessary causes huge heating problems from the source. Instead, kinetic energy systems were suggested. Why would a defense fortress need the ability to deal heavy damage to a planet? At the time, the government's intel suggested that removing the Zentradi threat all together would mean going to and destroying some of the major Zentradi staging planets. The first TBC was built as a proof of concept that a planet could be 'wounded' or even 'killed' with regular matter.

The TBC uses the rail cannon concept (a series of super-powerful magnets used to accelerate a projectile to near the speed of light) to fire a SABL like projectile with great mass. The projectile uses a similar coefficient concept to that of a bullet, mushrooming on the surface of the target to distribute the energy with less penetration. The outer-core of the projectile is made of compressed uranium known as Hyperanium. The core is made up of a sharp spike of hypercarbon that is charged during the firing process. The shell expands on the impact surface, triggering a blast equal to a 50 Megaton Nuclear weapon, while its core continues through the ground roughly a thousand miles deep before friction turns it into plasma. This charged plasma is designed to hit the molten core of a planet and create bubble, disrupting geological activity and causing massive volcanic eruptions. On planets with a dead core (a cool center such as our moons), the plasma tends to react to the cool core like a hot iron hitting water. The thermal reaction displaces a high volume of the planets core, causing massive fissures that can break up the planets surface. When used on low mass objects, a cool core can even explode, literally shattering the planet.

Many of these functions depend greatly on the planets mass and makeup. Planets larger than Mars require multiple shots, though the additional shots must be made with incredible accuracy to take advantage of the hole from the previous shot. Because of the EDF-1's computer, multi-shot salvo's must take place while in distant orbit, and only one shot per orbit can be made.

It looks a lot better on my personal Wiki, as I can format it better. Anyway, with the statistics in place, I started sketching different parts of the ship in photoshop using my tablet. What worked best for me was to draw each section individually, making additional sketches where parts must connect. I also started in Battle mode, working backwords instead of the other way around, as I wanted more detail in the Battle mode this time.

Though I hadn't finished the arms, reflex cannon towers, or head, I found I was spending more time in 3D studio building transformation mock ups then getting things done in PS. I decided I'd start building the actual model, and have something to work off of for the rest. I'm still rather undecided on the arms. I'd like to do the classic ships thing, using two sub-ships as arms, but I don't want them to look as... detachable as they do on the SDF-1.

I started with the foot and leg, working my way up. You'll notice it looks like a combination of Battle Frontier and the Quarter. I'm hoping the colors and other little details (such as the square Vernor engines will make it look a little more... Macross like.

[badboy00z]

Looks like the leg of the Mac Quarter. Lol.

[anime52k8]

cool model so far, but why is it 110.3 MILES in length?

[MilSpex]

wow, thats big.

[Aurel Tristen]

cool model so far, but why is it 110.3 MILES in length?

I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. It was originally designed to be the biggest in a group of ships I invented, but I recently changed its design to fit a different role. I figure the Battle Frontier has to be around that size, maybe even bigger, so the EDF-1 might serve as a early test of super-sized construction. I think the size fits the number of available aircraft though.

If you think of it as a one ship fleet, it also makes a little more sense. Kind of a foolish concept, but if you look at the Yamoto, and the Bismark, you'll see a human pattern.

[Mr March]

I think anime52k8 was questioning why the length of a Macross ship would be measured in MILES rather than KILOMETERS, since Macross is Japanese and all the official statistics for the franchise are always in METRIC

BTW, 177.07 kilometers = 110.03 miles

[sketchley]

I think anime52k8 was questioning why the length of a Macross ship would be measured in MILES rather than KILOMETERS, since Macross is Japanese and all the official statistics for the franchise are always in METRIC

BTW, 177.07 kilometers = 110.03 miles

Not to mention that other stats in the stats write-up above are in metric...

[Sketch]

Not to mention that other stats in the stats write-up above are in metric...

No offence, but a 100+ mile long ship just doesn't fit with anything we've seen in Macross. This ship would be more than 10x longer than the Macross Frontier colony ship...

[Aurel Tristen]

I'm not trying to make it sound like its cannon, though I see what you mean. The stats, as I said, come from my personal wiki, so no one really looks at the stats but me (IE no constructive criticism)

For example, my listing of planets, I have the sizes in 'Earths' and such, as I use measurements that have meaning to me. I have a much stronger concept of a mile in my head then a kilometer, though rest assured if I were ever to publish a page about the ship (and I don't know why I would because fictional Macross stuff doesn't draw much of a crowed) I'd try to follow the format I see in the Macross Mecha database, and other such places.

[anime52k8]

No offence, but a 100+ mile long ship just doesn't fit with anything we've seen in Macross. This ship would be more than 10x longer than the Macross Frontier colony ship...

actually I meant something more along the line of this. From reading the discription it sounded like the ship was meant to fall somewhere between the SDF/SDFN class ships and battle class ships. if that's the case you wouldn't want more than 1.5 kilometers or so (about 1 mile)

the original SDF-1 was 1.2 kilometers in length, the battle class ships were 1.6 kilometers in length.

a 110 mile long ship (177 kilometers) ship would be as big the command portion of the bodolzaa-class fortress.

[akt_m]

By its size it could be a carrier for battle frontiers. And launch one in a gunbuster fashion.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Too big. Five times up is okay, maybe 10, but not 100.

Other than that, pretty cool.

[Star Dragon]

"Its construction drew .2% of Earth's resources"

Oh I think NOT. More realistically this mega ship of doom would take probably (20% of Earth's Military, Industrial, and commercial resource alone!), even that might be a bit LOW.

At least your time frame is more reasonable, by using 9 years to REBUILD a SDF-1 class as a comparison.

Personally, unless you make this some sort of planetary evac capable vessel or a Galctic conquest ship, I wouldn't make a WARSHIP bigger than 20km, 12.5 miles IIRC.

Plus I thought the GOVT wanted to make a more cost effective ship? This thing would probably take priority from any other endeavor and need much support during construction.

People have a tendancy to think "Bigger is better". Not always true.

Your tech base determines that. If they enemy can't hit you, see you, find you, or even get through shield/hull, then it almost don't matter what size your vessel is. Unless they use a Macross class to push a little gunboat into the sun.

Those are just my opinions.

Still you can make whatever design you want, just trying to put some perspective here.

When you say 97 f;agships you mean "Nupetiet Flagships" right? Or Boldoza bases???

[Vostok 7]

I like how the specs quote sea and air speed. Would that be even physically possible?

Vostok 7

[Knight26]

Um, hmmm, Engineering mind working on this, specs make no sense, design far too large and ambitious, someone's been reading too much SW EU comics and books, great you broke my brain, ooh pretty colors.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Um, hmmm, Engineering mind working on this, specs make no sense, design far too large and ambitious, someone's been reading too much SW EU comics and books, great you broke my brain, ooh pretty colors.

Except, this outclasses anything in that canon, aside from planet-destroyer battle stations, such as the Death Stars.

The gravitational disturbance from landing one of these things on a planet would cause major destruction. You'd get secondary tide effects and the like.

Having an atmospheric speed is kind of... I don't know, STUPID. And, don't get me started on a nautical speed.

At 177km, I'm gonna say, again, too damn big.

20km is pushing it, even.

If a Battle-Class is 1 mile, even, then 5 miles, or 8km, would suffice. 16km is ten times the size of a Battle-class.

So, I'll leave you with this:

"Now witness the firepower of this fully operational battle station."

-Members of Macross World Forums, EDF-1 Athanasius Thread

[Knight26]

I was just pointing out, like most of us here, how rediculous this design is. It is far too huge to be practical for a human scale operator, and combine that with the fact that he seems to want to transform it takes it even beyond rediculous. As SMC said even 20 KM is pushing it. Check out www.wcnews.com they recently posted a pic comparing the two dreadnaughts seen in the Wing Commander Franchise. The Terran Dreadnaught was alittle over a kilometer long, something like the size of the Macross, while the Kilrathi Dreadnaught, from official sources, is something like 22Km long. Just look at the size difference and how rediculous the dreadnaught looks as a result.

[Aurel Tristen]

I was just pointing out, like most of us here, how rediculous this design is. It is far too huge to be practical for a human scale operator, and combine that with the fact that he seems to want to transform it takes it even beyond rediculous. As SMC said even 20 KM is pushing it. Check out www.wcnews.com they recently posted a pic comparing the two dreadnaughts seen in the Wing Commander Franchise. The Terran Dreadnaught was alittle over a kilometer long, something like the size of the Macross, while the Kilrathi Dreadnaught, from official sources, is something like 22Km long. Just look at the size difference and how rediculous the dreadnaught looks as a result.

Yikes!

Yeah, uh, this is rather stupid, and is going to sound like a load of BS, but the 110 mile thing is a mix up. I have two creations that I've always confused with each other. The first is the EDF-1, and the second one is the Alexia. The Alexia is a space platform that is basically Long Island in space (Thus the 110 miles). The orbital platform is dated around 2400. The EDF-1 was supposed to be more along the size of a Flag ship. The size and weight as listed in my WORD files (much older than the wiki) is:

Length: 15 Miles (24,140m)

Displacement: 440,000,000 tons

which is still ridiculous, I know. And yes, bigger is not always better. It turns out, as the US Navy has discovered, its better to have a fleet of ships around an air craft carrier than having a mega carrier with its own defenses. Imagine a carrier that DID have that whole fleet's capabilities built into one ship.

It is kinda hard to talk realism with Macross though. Sure, the weight to size ratio is somewhat realistic, but we are talking about ships that TRANSFORM INTO GIGANTIC HUMANOID SHAPES! I've struggled years to come up with a rationalization for that one. Personally, I think the Macross (both TV and movie versions) look awsome once transformed. It resembles a human shape, but is still mechanical enough to look somewhat realistic. Now the Quarter on the other hand, or better yet, the Battle Frontier really has no excuses at all. Why? Why spend trillions more dollars to give it FINGERS to GRIP its sub vessels?

Just in case, let me remind everyone that I am not the famed Nanashi that apparently was here years ago and pissed everyone off. When I first came to this community a year or two ago, I was mistaken for said individual, and I'm a little concerned that this might explain a little of the hostility I'm feeling now, though its my own damn fault for not knowing my own creations well enough to see such an oversight. When I first fabricated this crap, the idea of a 100 mile long ship didn't seem that insane to me, and I could easily mix things up. I think that's why later on I bumped the Alexia up from a insainly large ship (Quite a bit uglier than this one) to a space platform.

Almost forgot the transformed render. Note that new elements are still very un-detailed such as the pectoral sections and cannon towers.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Nanashi

[Knight26]

Ok, those specs make a bit more sense, now you are just talking something the size of a Super Star Destroyer, which while still insanely huge makes more sense. Check out the 10x page on http://www.merzo.net/ and see how the Macross sizes up to an SSD.

As for the 110 mile long space platform, that sounds ok, large yes, but for something that doesn't move that is ok.

[anime52k8]

ignoring the specs for a second, that is a really cool model you've got going. it's shaping up nice and I'm sure it will be great when finished.

[SchizophrenicMC]

That's starting to look awesome.

Back to the Star Wars nomenclature for scaling things, I'd like to formally request that people stop saying "Super Star Destroyer." A Super-class Star Destroyer is a fake set of statistics, made up to fool an Imperial Oversight Committee, so that funding for the Executor-Class could be procured. Super-Class (Star Dreadnoughts, not Star Destroyers) is listed to be 8km long and 6km wide. The product of the project, the Executor-class, was 19km long, and 8km wide. In the movie, it was mis-referred to as a Super Star Destroyer. In fact, the ship was the flagship of the class, the Executor. Also, don't bring the Eclipse-class dreadnought (Note: Dreadnought is spelled dreadnought, not dreadnaught, as it would normally be) in, as it is shorter, but deeper.

[anime52k8]

That's starting to look awesome.

Back to the Star Wars nomenclature for scaling things, I'd like to formally request that people stop saying "Super Star Destroyer." A Super-class Star Destroyer is a fake set of statistics, made up to fool an Imperial Oversight Committee, so that funding for the Executor-Class could be procured. Super-Class (Star Dreadnoughts, not Star Destroyers) is listed to be 8km long and 6km wide. The product of the project, the Executor-class, was 19km long, and 8km wide. In the movie, it was mis-referred to as a Super Star Destroyer. In fact, the ship was the flagship of the class, the Executor. Also, don't bring the Eclipse-class dreadnought (Note: Dreadnought is spelled dreadnought, not dreadnaught, as it would normally be) in, as it is shorter, but deeper.

and this is why I'm not a fan of Star Wars

Edited April 10, 2009 by anime52k8

[Aurel Tristen]

ignoring the specs for a second, that is a really cool model you've got going. it's shaping up nice and I'm sure it will be great when finished.

Thanks.

I just received the SpaceNavigator I ordered yesterday (gotta love 1 day mail) and its really cutting down the workload. I'd HIGHLY recommend this thing to any 3D artist looking to save some time.

I'll create a flythrough of the current model with it as soon as I have enough new geometry to show. Until then, I've also got a demonstration of it functioning in 3D studio max up on youtube

[chillyche]

That's starting to look awesome.

In the movie, it was mis-referred to as a Super Star Destroyer. In fact, the ship was the flagship of the class, the Executor.

Funny that the movie -- the SOURCE for the whole world of spin off stuff -- somehow messed something up. No canon but the first three films, I say. (Although, I was surprised how the prequels seemed to invalidate stuff in the so-called canon sequels by Timothy Zahn)

ANNNYYYYWAYYYY back to Macross, right?

[chillyche]

Thanks.

I just received the SpaceNavigator I ordered yesterday (gotta love 1 day mail) and its really cutting down the workload. I'd HIGHLY recommend this thing to any 3D artist looking to save some time.

Did you get the PE or the SE version?

Because this thing looks rad.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Funny that the movie -- the SOURCE for the whole world of spin off stuff -- somehow messed something up. No canon but the first three films, I say. (Although, I was surprised how the prequels seemed to invalidate stuff in the so-called canon sequels by Timothy Zahn)

ANNNYYYYWAYYYY back to Macross, right?

Well, it's called the Executor, even in the movie. However, they erroneously called it (Rebels either had bad intel or called it that to describe its size and power) Super Star Destroyer.

[MDP310]

Well, it's called the Executor, even in the movie. However, they erroneously called it (Rebels either had bad intel or called it that to describe its size and power) Super Star Destroyer.

They called it a Super Star Destroyer because they were basically saying "Everyone shoot at the really big one!"

And then the canon got really weird and confusing because nobody in Lucasfilm is manly enough to just say "no, that's wrong." They have to come up with a rediculously complicated explanation that includes every piece of information ever.

Anyway this ship is a pretty cool idea, I especially like how the model looks like a cross between an SDF and the Quarter.

[Aurel Tristen]

Did you get the PE or the SE version?

Because this thing looks rad.

Here's the kicker. PE and SE are the exact same thing, but only SE 'can be used to develop commercial products' or some BS. I got the PE. If they can somehow tell that I used it to make commercial products, I'll be impressed.

Anyway this ship is a pretty cool idea, I especially like how the model looks like a cross between an SDF and the Quarter.

Thanks. Yeah, I think thats the only way I was able to convince myself to work on it. Otherwise, I spend way too much time re-doing work on my SDF-1. I don't know if I've told my sad story, but I had my SDF-1 all decked out, all turrets re-modeled, problems fixed, bridge re-built before my hard drive suffered a bad case of Iraq and died. I've been working with a old backup version trying to get it back up to speed, and I think its reach the point were it surpasses the original. I don't yet have the heart to start re-building my VF-1 from a 3 year old backup.

[Star Dragon]

I don't yet have the heart to start re-building my VF-1 from a 3 year old backup.

I know what that's like. One of my associates had just finished SDF storm attacker mode and his HD crashed. He gave up on it cause he's have to start from scratch and went to another game completely...Sucks, I just got one poor early screenie as a reminder.

[Aurel Tristen]

Well, I allowed myself to become distracted again, and started hacking away at that SDF-1. Got it to transform, and its the best result yet. Both modes resemble something like the Macross, though I'm having issues with some discrepencies that I'm sure are due to animation.

The towers are tapered from the top view in 'Cruse' mode, but squared off when transformed. These two 'vents' appear from nowhere on the hips after transformation, and the sholders are a mess. I can't work out how they could be flush in both modes mechanically. No matter how I work it, there is space between the two 'plates' (front and back). There is also no way to make the 'neck' section fit sungly in both modes.

Otherwise, I'm rather pleased. I just need to make new ships, and I'm still torn, as some of this model takes from the 'refit' version, and some from the TV version. I cant decide if I should give the TV ships another go or just go with the refit version.

Pictures are linked because they are too high res for the post:

Attack mode

Cruse mode

[MilSpex]

I liked it better when it was 110 miles long. I like some of the ideas posted for a ship that big. Planetary evacuation ship or a carrier for SDFs.

btw on just the original 3 star wars movies being the only canon. Word to that. And the special editions aren`t canon either imo. Just the originals as screened in the `70s and `80s. I take the same approach with Macross lately. Macross 7 and Frontier are just too dumb in some ways to be called Macross. So I disowned them from the franchise. in my head. haha

[SchizophrenicMC]

Looking good!

[Aurel Tristen]

I find it really hard to believe this thing is ONLY 39,518 faces. I'm using polygons in many places where a texture map would due just fine (mostly because I hate mapping and texturing more than anything)

I did fix the bridge issue though, but it leans further away from cannon. Instead of that oversized hellipad that sat between the bridge sections, I now have the mechanics necessary to allow the two sections to be seperate in cruse mode, together in attack mode, and not magically transform in between.

As you can see in some of the pictures, I've finally got off my lazy ass and modeled the ARMD (movie version) as seen attached to the Macross. This takes my model even further out of cannon, as I have a TV SDF-1 with movie arms, and movie main thrusters (instead of the rectangular TV ones). Why not just do the whole thing as the TV version? I think the towers look WAY cooler in the TV version.

Still a lot of detail missing from the bridge, I know. That whole chunk that sticks up in back behind the sensor tower is missing, along with a lot of other junk.

PRE-REBUILDYou'll note I lost some of the detail in the main body from this version.

POST-REBUILD

[Star Dragon]

Awesome work...

Note there's nothing saying you can't have one that big. But defiantely I think a 20-30km one as a progression step would be logical.

You don't go from building a 3-4km version to over 100 without testing. Funny things happen.

I'm really impressed you managed that level of detail with under 40k polys so far.

Quick question. Do you think you would ever try a Macross II version of the SDF-4 Apocalypse? (AKA Macross Cannon)

The SDF superstructure with 4 Zentreadi Nuepitiet flagships as arms instead of the ARMDs?

Edited April 18, 2009 by Star Dragon

[Aurel Tristen]

Awesome work...

Note there's nothing saying you can't have one that big. But defiantely I think a 20-30km one as a progression step would be logical.

You don't go from building a 3-4km version to over 100 without testing. Funny things happen.

I'm really impressed you managed that level of detail with under 40k polys so far.

Quick question. Do you think you would ever try a Macross II version of the SDF-4 Apocalypse? (AKA Macross Cannon)

The SDF superstructure with 4 Zentreadi Nuepitiet flagships as arms instead of the ARMDs?

I know what it looks like, "oops, no one likes that size, I'll change it." but I assure you it was a stupid mistake on my part, switching those two up again. I'm not afrade to go there, I as the Alexia proves, but just not with that design.

I'm thinking that poly count on my SDF-1 has to be wrong somehow. I've got the insides of the barrels modeld, as well as other unessisary but fun details such as the bridge structure (within the glass section)

Update: I've continued to stay off my ass and acutally UVW mapped my ARMD (movie ver) model, ambient occlusion baked in. The thing is a memory beast though, with 3 1024x1204 and 1 512 maps, not including bump maps. I'm rendering a new animated sequence testing the transformation with the ARMDs, and changes to the bridge. I've also shifted the timing on some of the sections to make the transformation more... interesting.

About the 'Macross Cannon,' If I still had my Zentradi (I spell it weird) flagship model, I'd give it a shot, as it wouldn't be a whole lot of work. I find organic meshes like the Zentradi ships to be really difficult.