Battletechnology

[Funkenstein]

NO THEY DID NOT

They only had rights to market Nichimo Macross model kits.

My mistake.

[wolfx]

I still don't see why should HG or whoever make a big fuss over the designs. The Warhammer looks NOTHING like the Tomahawk these days. In the past it was a direct copy sure but not now. Someone explain it to me.

[Einherjar]

I still don't see why should HG or whoever make a big fuss over the designs. The Warhammer looks NOTHING like the Tomahawk these days. In the past it was a direct copy sure but not now. Someone explain it to me.

If not for copyright infringement reasons, maybe for greed or opportunism. Take your pick. Despite not looking identical, the similarities gives them an opening to act. It's almost like those video game industry news stories about all those independent and small technology companies going into legal battles with the big three (Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony) for technologies their consoles use that these little guys supposedly invented first and got no credit ($) for it.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Einherjar

[Whamhammer]

If not for copyright infringement reasons, maybe for greed or opportunism. Take your pick. Despite not looking identical, the similarities gives them an opening to act. It's almost like those video game industry news stories about all those independent and small technology companies going into legal battles with the big three (Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony) for technologies their consoles use that these little guys supposedly invented first and got no credit ($) for it.

Yeah , but the Project Phoenix re-sculpts have been out for what, six years now?

[Lynx7725]

I love that everyone is letting their blind hatred of HG completely eclipse the fact that the rights owners of Battletech are entirely in the wrong. I don't care what you think about Robotech, ripping off someone else designs you didn't have the rights to is worse than whatever complaints you could lodge against HG for what they did with Robotech.

Ah, herein lies the difference. The situation at first use by FASA was IIRC unclear, then HG C&D'ed; I can't remember if there was a subsequent lawsuit, but FASA eventually withdrew the designs. Even though there is a fan demand for it, FASA didn't bring it out again -- they stuck with the agreement they had. Even later, when Catalyst came out with the Phoenix Reseens, they tried hard to make them look different so that they can satisfy fan demands but yet not violate the agreements. Even this current spate is because Catalyst didn't know of the details of the (closed door) resolution of the case.

Whereas HG had a semi-questionable claim that wasn't resolved until recently, and even then resolved behind closed door such that others (such as Catalyst) didn't know any of the results. Moreover, for decade HG refused to be transparent about the situation while treating any potential cases with immediate semi-hostile actions (A C&D isn't exactly the friendliest sort of thing).

That HG had a legitimate rock to stand on is one thing; their behaviour and treatment of others using that legitimate rock is, IMO, rather shameful. Legal yes, but essentially bullying. They might not have a choice in the matter, but it's the equivalent of a warning shot across the bow on first meeting -- mightily unfriendly folks.

Can BT make the new Warhammer different enough to qualify as new work but have enough homages to the original Warhammer? I don't know as I too am not a copyright lawyer.

I believe the Phoenix Reseens are sufficiently different. Heck, WE want to disown the thing...

[eugimon]

If HG owns the rights to those designs then they HAVE TO contest if someone tries to infringe on their rights. If they don't, basically they can lose their claim to it. HG doesn't need to be "friendly" with people who are basically trying to profit off their IP.

Edited September 5, 2009 by eugimon

[Lynx7725]

Agreed on that, but I feel their way of doing it just leaves no room for any negotiation and thus any benefits to them, a newcomer, and us consumers. However we are drifting off topic, so I think it's best not to go there in this thread.

[Einherjar]

The franchise is still doing good even with this setback, right? The new RPG books (and other products?) are still selling.

[Wanzerfan]

I hope somebody pilots a PPC-laden Marauder up Harmony Gold's ass and pulls the trigger for all three PPCs for the sh!t they've pulled.

[the white drew carey]

If HG owns the rights to those designs then they HAVE TO contest if someone tries to infringe on their rights. If they don't, basically they can lose their claim to it. HG doesn't need to be "friendly" with people who are basically trying to profit off their IP.

This statement itself is on legal shaky ground. There is a lot of legal mumbo jumbo behind when an owner loses their rights for not protecting them, and it isn't that simple.

Remember when Tommy Yune, speaking for HG at SDCC in 2002, "admitted" that MacII and Mac+ slipped by them in the 90s because no one was minding the store at the time. In HG's quasi-legal explanation, they claimed that this was why they haven't been able to do anything to stop those specific products from being sold to this day. However, copyright law allows that an IP holder cannot always know when they are being infringed upon, and that the time frame for protecting their product takes into account when they first become aware of the infringement.

HG's statement was BS, though, as they were actively licensing RT at the time in the form of comics and the Robotech: Crystal Dreams game for N64. Its clear the real reason they didn't do squat about MacII and Mac+ as because they knew that A) they didn't have any legal recourse beyond the Macross TV series, and B) the story about not minding the store was utter crap and they would be called on it if they actually tried to use that as a legal defense.

Even when HG blocked the Toycom Mac+ VF toys, it wasn't a "legal victory" at all. Whatshisname from Toycom just bent over, let HG give it to him in the rear, and birthed the bastard child Toynami to plague us with crappy (and expensive) knockoffs of toys that were already available in Japan.

[eugimon]

Right, I should have been more clear... it's not like HG would just automatically lose their rights to those properties but it makes it easier for other companies to also produce material that infringes or appears to infringe on their rights and successfully defend themselves in the case HG takes them to court over it.

[the white drew carey]

Right, I should have been more clear... it's not like HG would just automatically lose their rights to those properties but it makes it easier for other companies to also produce material that infringes or appears to infringe on their rights and successfully defend themselves in the case HG takes them to court over it.

That's cool. I was more worried that others would misinterpret what you were stating and wanted to clarify, not that you were uninformed yourself.

[mondamoto]

I am not sure how the game is selling but I purchased the most recent box set with plastic miniatures and the figures are really nice a lot better than the previous plastic figures they had released.

While I would love to see the unseen again as they were there when I started playing back in the Battledroid days I understand where HG is coming from but I also cannot understand why the 2 parties cannot come to an agreement about them so everyone wins.

[big F]

Is HG or its posible parent company listed, I mean if it is buying shares in it could get you an insider view and if enough people from the various fandom comunites we caould actuall influence at board level.

[Ginrai]

Is HG or its posible parent company listed, I mean if it is buying shares in it could get you an insider view and if enough people from the various fandom comunites we caould actuall influence at board level.

Sure... if HG were a publically traded company.

[Whamhammer]

I am not sure how the game is selling but I purchased the most recent box set with plastic miniatures and the figures are really nice a lot better than the previous plastic figures they had released.

While I would love to see the unseen again as they were there when I started playing back in the Battledroid days I understand where HG is coming from but I also cannot understand why the 2 parties cannot come to an agreement about them so everyone wins.

Who needs a re-release of the unseens? Some of us have 23 Warhammers tucked away.... somewhere.... and might re-emerge if I get time to play. And we all have a copy of Heavy Metal, right?

[Einherjar]

Who needs a re-release of the unseens? Some of us have 23 Warhammers tucked away.... somewhere.... and might re-emerge if I get time to play. And we all have a copy of Heavy Metal, right?

You could make a killing with that if you sold them on ebay. More emphasis on could, because fewer people have money to spend there in certain circles.

[Whamhammer]

You could make a killing with that if you sold them on ebay. More emphasis on could, because fewer people have money to spend there in certain circles.

Not really, there are several people on that I've seen on E-bay that are selling home-cast mechs. They make a mold from the original and clean up the mold untill its good enough , then paint the mech and sell it as a painted product (so they can avoid gettng sued for legal infringements). I have a friend who used to be a caster for another company , he makes casts for his own minuatures for small table top game companies to use as thier product , and he has shown me how its done (he doesnt do that BTW).If demand for something like this goes up , these guys kick in and eventually bring the market value down.

[Einherjar]

Not really, there are several people on that I've seen on E-bay that are selling home-cast mechs. They make a mold from the original and clean up the mold untill its good enough , then paint the mech and sell it as a painted product (so they can avoid gettng sued for legal infringements). I have a friend who used to be a caster for another company , he makes casts for his own minuatures for small table top game companies to use as thier product , and he has shown me how its done (he doesnt do that BTW).If demand for something like this goes up , these guys kick in and eventually bring the market value down.

Can you really make a profit from all the effort put into homemade cast miniatures on ebay?

[Einherjar]

So far the HG C&D has only affected IGN. The trailer there has been taken down, but it's still online on other gaming websites as well as youtube. Most sites aren't even talking about it.

[Whamhammer]

Can you really make a profit from all the effort put into homemade cast miniatures on ebay?

I imagine so, people do it. I dont remember how much the cost of materials are, but they sell them for more than the price of a "factory" mech would run and it has a lower melting point than "Ralidium" (what Ral Partha called their non-lead metal they used in production), you could use lead from old fishing weights or tire weights for free if you go to the right places. Lets say Im selling a midlands quality painted home spun "Warhammer" online for $15.00 + 5.00 shipped local ConUS (which I did see this) if I remember right Warhammers retailed for 6.50-7.00 bux-ish before they stopped being produced. They are essentially selling it as 15.00 paint job, and I've known plenty of "gamers" too lazy to paint and pay others to do it for them for more than that. The buyer thinks that theyve got a mech that they didnt have to paint and at a decent price versus the price of buying a new one. You spin of a bunch of the same type of mech to make the most use of the mold and materials and you sell them only a few at a time as to not totally flood the market or arouse suspisions. Lets say for gigles that it cost 2.50 each to make one mech and list it on Ebay to boot (I doubt it is that much), youre still clearing 12.50 Its to the very least an easy way to recoup the cost of materials to make home spun mechs for you and your buddies that couldnt get the mechs anymore through retailers. (Or current stuff if you want a bunch and dont want to pay a premium in minature prices.) The more you sell over time the more you'll make.

I just checked Battletech Warhammers right now, and there is one person with three auctions up right now for a metal Warhammer (Used) mounted and primered "ready for painting" and described as "customized" (the antenna aerial, which usually came with an original miniature anyways) plus drilled and pinned. The prices right now range between 8.99 to 10.50. That vendor also has for sale multiples each of Marauders, Riflemen, Battlemasters, and Cylcops'es, all mounted, drilled and pinned, customized, and primered ready to paint. It might be coincidental, but thats alot of the same kinda mechs done in an almost assembly line like production method to just be from some "collection" lot.

[Zentrandude]

I hope somebody pilots a PPC-laden Marauder up Harmony Gold's ass and pulls the trigger for all three PPCs for the sh!t they've pulled.

Clanner wasn't IS Marauder Weps 2 Magna Hellstar PPCs, 2 Magna Mk II Medium Lasers,1 GM Whirlwind Autocannon (AC5)?

[thegunny]

It might be coincidental, but thats alot of the same kinda mechs done in an almost assembly line like production method to just be from some "collection" lot.

Maybe but I've got a full Wolf's Dragoon Zeta Company (pre Misery) and apart from the single mech types it has 4 Annihilator, 7 Stalker, 5 Atlas, 4 Awesome, 3 Marauder II, 4 Imp & 3 Shogun mechs plus all up I have 614 IS mechs and 332 Clan mechs. There are a heap of multiple mech types in that lot.

[Penguin]

Clanner wasn't IS Marauder Weps 2 Magna Hellstar PPCs, 2 Magna Mk II Medium Lasers,1 GM Whirlwind Autocannon (AC5)?

Man, I loved the Marauder IIC

[VF5SS]

Fun fact, the Victor Music Industries designs were originally used in the Japanese release of the Mechwarrior game for SNES. It was originally just called Battletech in Japan.

[Penguin]

Did FASA have another rights or license expiration or some such issue that meant they had to stop using the Victor Musical (sic ) artwork? I was looking at a more subsequent printing of the 3055 Technical Readout and they weren't there anymore.

Come to think of it, it might have been a second hand copy, and I know those pages long ago separated out of my copy, so maybe that's why they weren't there.

[Lynx7725]

No, the VMI 'mechs were only there for the first version of the 3055 book. Subsequent reprints removed them. I'm not sure why, but possibly due to "derivative works".

[Penguin]

No, the VMI 'mechs were only there for the first version of the 3055 book. Subsequent reprints removed them. I'm not sure why, but possibly due to "derivative works".

That's a shame. There's some nice artwork there. Although, some of the designs made you think, "Hmmm... where exactly are the weapons?"

[Wanzerfan]

Clanner wasn't IS Marauder Weps 2 Magna Hellstar PPCs, 2 Magna Mk II Medium Lasers,1 GM Whirlwind Autocannon (AC5)?

I was talking about a using a custom Marauder where you replace the GM Whirlwind cannon mounted on the top with a PPC (I know it's hell on the heat, but well worth the effort); half the fun of Battletech is taking the stock model Battlemech and customizing the hell out of it, all the while trying to keep within the weight limit.

[Whamhammer]

Maybe but I've got a full Wolf's Dragoon Zeta Company (pre Misery) and apart from the single mech types it has 4 Annihilator, 7 Stalker, 5 Atlas, 4 Awesome, 3 Marauder II, 4 Imp & 3 Shogun mechs plus all up I have 614 IS mechs and 332 Clan mechs. There are a heap of multiple mech types in that lot.

There are going to be people like yourself and I that have large collections. I have 23 real original Warhammers stored away as well as other multiples. But if you look at these auctions, you can pretty much tell they are suspisious and most likely not "factory" but homespun duplicates.

[Whamhammer]

I was talking about a using a custom Marauder where you replace the GM Whirlwind cannon mounted on the top with a PPC (I know it's hell on the heat, but well worth the effort); half the fun of Battletech is taking the stock model Battlemech and customizing the hell out of it, all the while trying to keep within the weight limit.

Im not sure how readily available it still is , but the program "Heavy Metal" will do all the work for you in making new designs and printing mech sheets for them (it was the official software at one point, not sure it still is) , you can even give new weapons and equipment for it to use and assing values for it, and it did have mech updates for it as well. Its good stuff.

[Whamhammer]

I was talking about a using a custom Marauder where you replace the GM Whirlwind cannon mounted on the top with a PPC (I know it's hell on the heat, but well worth the effort); half the fun of Battletech is taking the stock model Battlemech and customizing the hell out of it, all the while trying to keep within the weight limit.

Some of my fav's is the Penetrator described on of the the books that was all clan tech ( two ER-Larges and six Medium Pulse lasers) , hated the stock one but loved that. I made an IS Warhammer with two ER PPC's and six standard mediums which was such a brick. I also made an Omni-mech construction for the Battlemaster called the "Omnimaster" and one variant sported an LB20X . Im going to have to put the software on my comp again. I gotta find a B-tech group where I live!!!

[Einherjar]

I'm a newbie to Battletech, and something crossed by mind watching the Mechwarrior reboot trailer. Pilots have a way of ejecting from their mech when it has a core breach, but when they bail does it propel them far enough to survive the explosion? They've all looked pretty big throughout the series.

[IHATEYOU]

I'm a newbie to Battletech, and something crossed by mind watching the Mechwarrior reboot trailer. Pilots have a way of ejecting from their mech when it has a core breach, but when they bail does it propel them far enough to survive the explosion? They've all looked pretty big throughout the series.

In the game when a battlemech is totaled it doesn't set off an explosion like in the trailer the engine immediately shuts down so ejecting from a totaled unit isn't really a problem. There is an optional rule somewhere that let's you roll to see if a destroyed unit does go nuclear as well as rules for purposely lighting off you fusion engine. The explosion causes damage based on the units engine rating and lesser damage to the surrounding hexes. If i remember properly an ejecting pilot lands in the hex immediately behind the mech. If the mech did go nuclear the pilot would be boned.

[big F]

For those who are interested, I once went for a job at Ral Partha and ultimately ended up working at a similar company, to cast your own figures in the same way you will need a smelting pot to melt the lead or Ralidium, we used moslty ingots of plumbers solder as it doesnt have any flux in it. then you'll need a centifugal casting machine these are esentially a mechanisum like a potters wheel with three clamps on to clamp down your two part mold and ahole in the lid to let you pour in you mix. The big part that'll set you back the big bucks is the compression plates that heats and cures your un-vulcanised rubber disks you will make your molds from.

We used to place the masters on the base and then cover them with the top part compress heat and then cut sprews into the mold. the center part has a plug put in to form the pour and spin chambers. The only problem is you will need to use actual metal masters. This is only an issue if you dont have metal originals to cast from.

We made lots of space marines and some orcs, I wanted to make some Battle tech stuff for personal consumption but was never allowed to by the management. Shame of it is I should have just done it on the sly

Most of our centrifugal casting machines came from a company in New York state, You could probably with the exception of the vulcaniser make all you need from junk or other such stuff.

You could consider using Silicon RTV instead of Rubber as this would be easier and allow the use of non metal masters.

Some of the casting kit has been on eBay in the past.