Battletechnology

[taksraven]

So far the HG C&D has only affected IGN. The trailer there has been taken down, but it's still online on other gaming websites as well as youtube. Most sites aren't even talking about it.

Well thats interesting, isn't it. I new HG was full of shite when push came to shove.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

half the fun of Battletech is taking the stock model Battlemech and customizing the hell out of it, all the while trying to keep within the weight limit.

the other half of the fun was setting up your mech so it didn't explode instantly due to overheating when you tried to carry out an alpha attack (or whatever the name of the attack was where you fired all of your weapons at once)

Taksraven

[Dangaioh]

the other half of the fun was setting up your mech so it didn't explode instantly due to overheating when you tried to carry out an alpha attack (or whatever the name of the attack was where you fired all of your weapons at once)

Taksraven

Actually, the fun part for me, was to create an Assault mech and give it "full bore" of weapons, that reloads quickly while hot, heats up as much as possible and flush the heat sink... thus overheating (quickly) and blowing up really good , before completing the first objective.

[Einherjar]

In the game when a battlemech is totaled it doesn't set off an explosion like in the trailer the engine immediately shuts down so ejecting from a totaled unit isn't really a problem. There is an optional rule somewhere that let's you roll to see if a destroyed unit does go nuclear as well as rules for purposely lighting off you fusion engine. The explosion causes damage based on the units engine rating and lesser damage to the surrounding hexes. If i remember properly an ejecting pilot lands in the hex immediately behind the mech. If the mech did go nuclear the pilot would be boned.

So it's something they invented for all the Mechwarrior games. Thanks to that I always wondered if I'd really want to ride in one if I'm going to be boned like that.

I downloaded the free intro book and was caught off guard for some of the mech designs in them. They're on the last few pages. I didn't expect most of them to look humanoid.

http://www.classicbattletech.com/index.php...full&id=210

Edited September 17, 2009 by Einherjar

[Zentrandude]

that's cool i like to collect battle tech publications especially in pdf format. love the picture of the mech (I think its the dragon) give the old kick in the face. who needs PPCs while you have a giant mech foot to shove up some mech jock's behind.

[VF5SS]

If you want to play a computerized version of the Battletech tabletop game try Megamek. I think the boardgame has aged a little better than the Mechwarrior PC games.

[Whamhammer]

In the game when a battlemech is totaled it doesn't set off an explosion like in the trailer the engine immediately shuts down so ejecting from a totaled unit isn't really a problem. There is an optional rule somewhere that let's you roll to see if a destroyed unit does go nuclear as well as rules for purposely lighting off you fusion engine. The explosion causes damage based on the units engine rating and lesser damage to the surrounding hexes. If i remember properly an ejecting pilot lands in the hex immediately behind the mech. If the mech did go nuclear the pilot would be boned.

Depends on the rules set you look at. There was a set that you bailed a hex away (30m) from the mech, another was three (90m). The optional rules set that did have a possibility of engine explosions, the area of explosions was three meters and the damage was a percentage of the engines rating and reduced by a percentage of that in a specefied range from the mech. rule of thumb is that the average person was hosed (unless they drove an Urbanmech I suppose, it had a dinky engine) because it took only one point of "mech" damage to kill a foot trooper. If you went by the Mechwarrior RPG rules set it depended on how a person was built. I did know a player that was able to build a character that as tough enough (along with equipment he was able to wear in the mech, no it wasnt powered armor) that took a three "mech" points of damage and survived it, he was more or less out of commision for a long time and I think he lost an arm in the process. The man was no Kai Allard-Lao in the mech however (I think he equated to a 4 gunner and four pilot).

So more or less, yes, dont be near an engine explosion . Its baaaaaaaaad!

[Whamhammer]

If you want to play a computerized version of the Battletech tabletop game try Megamek. I think the boardgame has aged a little better than the Mechwarrior PC games.

Do you remember the end of B-techII: Crescent Hawks revenge? You got that "training" mode that you could pair mech fights (with a bunch of mech choices) 12 vs. 12 .

[Einherjar]

I also didn't expect the cockpits to actually be inside the head in some of the humanoid mechs (page 36). I always thought they were in the chest area.

[Lynx7725]

I also didn't expect the cockpits to actually be inside the head in some of the humanoid mechs (page 36). I always thought they were in the chest area.

Btech has always placed their cockpit in the head (or a protrusion from the torso known as a "head"). It's only in later years that torso-mounted cockpits became an option -- most "book" mechs are still using head cockpits.

So no, quite dissimilar from Valks, which is a torso cockpit. Closer to Destroids though.

[VF5SS]

I also didn't expect the cockpits to actually be inside the head in some of the humanoid mechs (page 36). I always thought they were in the chest area.

One of the funny things about the rule is that some of the heads can't been seen from behind and yet a headshot is always possible from the rear. Although one thing that was never really translated to the PC games is the space a Battlemech occupies is a 30 meter hex which is meant to give it room to maneuver and dodge. So they're not as "stiff" in their actions like most of the PC games tend to show them.

[Ginrai]

So they're not as "stiff" in their actions like most of the PC games tend to show them.

They're not stiff in Mech Assault yet everyone bitches about those games for that reason. Weird.

[VF5SS]

Because Mechwarrior fans became unhappy whores just like the No Mutants Allowed guys for Fallout. They wouldn't allow the Mechwarrior games to change at all so eventually only hardcore fans played them consistently leaving the casual gamer really put off.

[Ginrai]

Because Mechwarrior fans became unhappy whores just like the No Mutants Allowed guys for Fallout. They wouldn't allow the Mechwarrior games to change at all so eventually only hardcore fans played them consistently leaving the casual gamer really put off.

Hmm. Well, I think Mech Assault 2 and Fallout 3 are both really fun games. Silly purists.

[Einherjar]

Btech has always placed their cockpit in the head (or a protrusion from the torso known as a "head"). It's only in later years that torso-mounted cockpits became an option -- most "book" mechs are still using head cockpits.

Yeah, I was expecting mechs like the Mad Cat to be in the pdf. Even though I didn't get way into it, I assumed that was the standard all mechs went for in the series. They used it a lot in most of their products, I think. In fact, I'm surprised that mech wasn't in this intro book, unless the pdf was an excerpt from the original book from the 80s.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Timber_Wolf

[thegunny]

The reason the Timber Wolf (Madcat) isn't in the intro book is that it is a Clan mech and the intro book only deals with Level 1 3025 Inner Sphere mechs. The Clan mechs don't feature until 3049/3050 with the exception of the odd bit of clantech in Wolf's Dragoons.

[Whamhammer]

I also didn't expect the cockpits to actually be inside the head in some of the humanoid mechs (page 36). I always thought they were in the chest area.

There is an optional rule for the cockpit to be moved to the center torso, but if the center torso's inner structure (one of the most common hit locations being center mass) is hit theres a chance that a critical hit will destroy the cockpit (and pilot) and if the structure is depleted by damage , everthing in the center torso is disabled (in this case, killing the pilot). The heads not a bad spot to have in the tabletop game, theyve made it hard for a head hit to happen , you have to roll two six sided dice at the same time and both have to roll a six to do it (1 in 36 chance).

[Whamhammer]

One of the funny things about the rule is that some of the heads can't been seen from behind and yet a headshot is always possible from the rear. Although one thing that was never really translated to the PC games is the space a Battlemech occupies is a 30 meter hex which is meant to give it room to maneuver and dodge. So they're not as "stiff" in their actions like most of the PC games tend to show them.

They certainly arent stiff , but I wouldnt say that they are agile in the concept as anime mecha are. The thirty meter hex concept is also used to convey maneuvering along with the notion that a phase is the equivalent of ten seconds as well which allows for motion correections too.

[VF5SS]

They certainly arent stiff , but I wouldnt say that they are agile in the concept as anime mecha are. The thirty meter hex concept is also used to convey maneuvering along with the notion that a phase is the equivalent of ten seconds as well which allows for motion correections too.

Nice blanket statement there. You know I read Starship Troopers and know that the humanoid weapon is meant to fast, agile, and lethal. I know Japan loves that book because Heinlein's powered suit is literally the basis for all mecha and I can guess the FASA guys also read it because of their oh so liberal use of terms like "flamer" and "jump jet."

[Gui]

Nice blanket statement there. You know I read Starship Troopers and know that the humanoid weapon is meant to fast, agile, and lethal. I know Japan loves that book because Heinlein's powered suit is literally the basis for all mecha [...]

"Real mechas", yes, but not mechas as a whole: the manga of Tetsujin 28 was there some years before Starship Troopers and it is this character who recently got its permanent statue in I don't remember which island of the archipelago...

[Ginrai]

"Real mechas", yes, but not mechas as a whole: the manga of Tetsujin 28 was there some years before Starship Troopers and it is this character who recently got its permanent statue in I don't remember which island of the archipelago...

Gimme a break. Tetsujin 28 is a robot controlled by a remote control box. No one rides in it. It's a very different concept.

[VF5SS]

Now if you really want to look at the influence of Starship Troopers on mecha, just try and think about how many robots jump around in some manner and carry some kind of shoulder cannon or bazooka.

On the bounce, trooper.

[Gui]

OK, so what about Wells' martian tripods then?

[VF5SS]

Mostly used for badguys and alien mecha like the stuff from Ideon. They're more like (colonial) Kaiju in that they represent an unstoppable invasion force.

[Whamhammer]

Nice blanket statement there. You know I read Starship Troopers and know that the humanoid weapon is meant to fast, agile, and lethal. I know Japan loves that book because Heinlein's powered suit is literally the basis for all mecha and I can guess the FASA guys also read it because of their oh so liberal use of terms like "flamer" and "jump jet."

What in Hades was that supposed to mean?? If the FASA mechs were supposed to be "fast,agile, and lethal" why is it that whenever a guy (in thier stories) fires a weapon that only creates half to a quarter of the mechs heat sinks ability to dissepate heat theyre sweating to death in the cockpit? I'm giving answers on game mechainics, and youre looking for a flowery dissertation that fills in all loopholes between A GAME and reality?

[Whamhammer]

Nice blanket statement there. You know I read Starship Troopers and know that the humanoid weapon is meant to fast, agile, and lethal. I know Japan loves that book because Heinlein's powered suit is literally the basis for all mecha and I can guess the FASA guys also read it because of their oh so liberal use of terms like "flamer" and "jump jet."

Oh yeah, glad you can read, cookies in the mail.

[Whamhammer]

Gimme a break. Tetsujin 28 is a robot controlled by a remote control box. No one rides in it. It's a very different concept.

Honestly, best thing to think about a Battletech mech is to think it as the next step in armored combat from a tank. Its more powerfull, somewhat more agile. In a tank you have to move the turret to get a bead on the enemy, in a mech you have the torso and all the joints to bring into line while keeping your balance with its legs. Also where tanks have from three to five crew , most mechs are only one guy. Its almost litteraly Robot-Jox (as much as Im sad to say anything about Robot-Jox at all), Solaris VII almost screams it.

[VF5SS]

You don't seem to be very good at using a forum.

[Gui]

Mostly used for badguys and alien mecha like the stuff from Ideon. They're more like (colonial) Kaiju in that they represent an unstoppable invasion force.

They're still mechas, whatever way you'll look at them

Anyway, I think anyone in here has a pretty good understanding of what the word "mecha" refers to and endless babblings about concepts or representations will not bring us anywhere, I'm afraid: there were mechas before Starship Troopers, including in classic SF stories by western writers, and japanese didn't invent them even if it's in their country that this genre became particularly successful; though I'll agree that it was more an effect of Mazinger Z, which came after Starship Troopers, than Tetsujin 28

On the hand, Mazinger Z doesn't remind me at all of Starship Troopers, from close as well as from far...

Oh, and I don't think Starship Troopers was a particularly huge success in Japan actually: except for an OAV at the end of the 80s, and a rather crappy and unfaitful one while I'm at it, nothing makes me think it is of particular importance in this country

[Whamhammer]

You don't seem to be very good at using a forum.

I love you too........

[Whamhammer]

They're still mechas, whatever way you'll look at them

Anyway, I think anyone in here has a pretty good understanding of what the word "mecha" refers to and endless babblings about concepts or representations will not bring us anywhere, I'm afraid: there were mechas before Starship Troopers, including in classic SF stories by western writers, and japanese didn't invent them even if it's in their country that this genre became particularly successful; though I'll agree that it was more an effect of Mazinger Z, which came after Starship Troopers, than Tetsujin 28

On the hand, Mazinger Z doesn't remind me at all of Starship Troopers, from close as well as from far...

Oh, and I don't think Starship Troopers was a particularly huge success in Japan actually: except for an OAV at the end of the 80s, and a rather crappy and unfaitful one while I'm at it, nothing makes me think it is of particular importance in this country

Gui,

I'm not sure if your reffering to Starship Troopers original written work , or the movie. Just to be sure , VF is talking about the original written work.

[Ginrai]

There were power armor of sorts in SF literature before Starship Troopers, this is true. Lensman is the earliest example I have been able to find. Lensman, however, pretty much invented the space opera and is a very pulpy brand of sci-fi not very concerned with science or reality. Starship Troopers is one of the early examples of hard sci-fi, and among the first to depict power armor in fetishistic mechanical detail and was a big inspiration for Gundam. The mecha designs for the '70s Japanese reissue of the novel (by Miyatake) were a big selling point to the Japanese audience and that is how they directly inspired the real robot movement. Yes, they didn't get around to doing an anime adaption until much later and it was kind of an interesting failure, but that's hardly an indicator of the book's success in Japan.

If there's a sucky movie adaptation of a book does that suddenly mean the book wasn't popular and didn't sell well? Of course not.

[Penguin]

If you want to play a computerized version of the Battletech tabletop game try Megamek. I think the boardgame has aged a little better than the Mechwarrior PC games.

Curse you and your easily clickable links! Now I've downloaded it and can't stop playing it!

[Gui]

There were power armor of sorts in SF literature before Starship Troopers, this is true. Lensman is the earliest example I have been able to find. Lensman, however, pretty much invented the space opera and is a very pulpy brand of sci-fi not very concerned with science or reality. Starship Troopers is one of the early examples of hard sci-fi, and among the first to depict power armor in fetishistic mechanical detail and was a big inspiration for Gundam. The mecha designs for the '70s Japanese reissue of the novel (by Miyatake) were a big selling point to the Japanese audience and that is how they directly inspired the real robot movement. Yes, they didn't get around to doing an anime adaption until much later and it was kind of an interesting failure, but that's hardly an indicator of the book's success in Japan.

If there's a sucky movie adaptation of a book does that suddenly mean the book wasn't popular and didn't sell well? Of course not.

Hard Science Fiction – which founded the period of the genre known as "The Golden Age" – is as old as the very begining of the 40s: it is usually considered to have begun when John Campbell became the editor in chief of Astounding (now Analog), and this happened in 1939 if memory serves. Although Heinlein's very first published story appeared in this magazine, Starship Trooper is younger of about 20 years (1959): this can hardly be considered as "one of the early examples of hard sci-fi", all the more as the following decade was the reign of the New Wave which rejected the paradigms of Hard SF; for more infos, use "Michael Moorcock" and "New Worlds" as keywords...

Otherwise, it's common knowledge in the anime community that the most popular mechas of the 70s was undoubtedly Mazinger Z and Getter Robo, followed by some others which it is unnecessary to name: in any case, none of these mechas were close to or even inspired by Starship Trooper, for obvious reasons. I don't doubt the influence of this novel onto Gundam though, but despite all the love I have for this franchise I can't admit it represents the mecha genre as a whole, all the more as it appeared quite some years after Mazinger and, of course, Tetsujin

Because of all of the above, and particularly the very first paragraph, I think your previous post was unclear at best or frankly wrong at worst: for this reason, I'll keep thinking that the Starship Trooper novel didn't have as much of a success in Japan as you claim, until I'm proven otherwise – and neither the movie or the OAV are supposed to be taken into account in this discussion, for the simple and good reason that both of them appeared only a long time after the mecha genre was clearly and strongly established

[Lynx7725]

Oy. B.A.T.T.L.E.T.E.C.H. thread.

To get back on topic: Some news.

MechWarrior free release update and MTX announced

For immediate release:

Its been awhile since we last updated you on the status of the free release of MechWarrior 4 so we felt the need to assure everyone that the time is nearing. We had hoped to release the free title the last weekend of summer but that unfortunately did not happen due to paperwork.

As previously mentioned, I indicated that there are still a number issues to resolve before the free release. Those issues are resolving thanks to the hard work of many at MekTek. From a development stand point the free release is near ready to go but we are still waiting to resolve some of the legalities associated with such a wide distribution. While we have not provided a set date for the release, we are still on target, and our partners are happy with the progress MekTek has been making.

Our focus on the strongfree/strong release has been revamping our match making service MekMatch in order to accommodate many more users. In addition to the work being conducted on the MechWarrior 4 strongfree/strong release, we are also working on a community software distribution and patching application which we have been alluding to on our forums. This software is known as MekTek X (or simply MTX). X stands for the last decade of service to the MechWarrior community.

MTX was developed out the need for a centralized distribution and patching point for all of MekTek’s software currently being developed and planned to be released including MekPak4 for the free release, Single Player Campaigns from MechWarrior 4: Vengeance and Black Knight, Assault Tech1: BattleTech, and much more. This software has been in development by Studio MekTek since the announcement of the free release and successfully reached beta testing status two weeks ago. MTX is a free desktop product which has been thoroughly tested and will connect you with MekTek.net’s community as well BattleTech.com and the rest of our partners.

MTX will be the central point of distribution for the launch of the free release. This application boasts some of the following features:

* Bootstrap Installations

* Incremental Delta Auto-Patching

* Torrent or HTTP Downloading from an exclusive MekTek Tracker

* Custom Web Browser

* News Updates from MekTek and Partners

* Online Help

* Community Chat Lobbies

* Network Diagnostic Tools

Stay tuned on BattleTech.com and MekTek.net for more information.

To be honest, I'm quite concerned about the MekTek direction. It's turning the MW4 from a playable arcade-ish game into a full blown sim of a 'Mech. Complexity's not always a good thing to have.