Ginrai Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 We have a new podcast up at: http://www.destroyallpodcastsdx.com It is about Angel's Egg, a snooty snooty snooty film from Ghost in the Shell's director, Mamoru Oshii! Did I mention it was snooty? It's snooty. Quote
AcroRay Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Cool! I really enjoyed the Avalon podcast. Angel's Egg is something that has intrigued me since I read about it in the Baycon guide the C/FO sent me a couple of decades ago... Man, I'm feeling old. Quote
Ginrai Posted March 17, 2009 Author Posted March 17, 2009 The problem with Angel's Egg is that while it's totally gorgeous, it's empty and dull and just has that "oh WOW I just had art history 101" kind of symbolism in it. This is not the first time Japan has gone, "Hey, referring to the Bible MUST make our movie meaningful!" Beautiful Dreamer is about 9 million times better and Ghost in the Shell uses similar imagery much more effectively. Quote
AcroRay Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Beautiful Dreamer is one of my all-time favorite anime films, and has been since I saw it back in the late 80s. I really disliked Oishii's GITS (haven't seen Innocence yet), but that was more in comparison to the much more lively character chemistry I loved in the manga. I thought the film was pretty to look at (I was fortunate enough to see it in a theater), but boring and not nearly as philosophically engaging as it seemed intended to be. I've found nearly all of his films that I've had the fortune or time to seeto be rather ponderous, and far more shallow than his works' rich technical merits suggest. Angel's Egg seemed like the quintessential example of his style being more about 'the journey' than 'the destination'. I'll give the podcast a listen on my way home from work tonight...! Quote
Ginrai Posted March 17, 2009 Author Posted March 17, 2009 Beautiful Dreamer is one of my all-time favorite anime films, and has been since I saw it back in the late 80s. I really disliked Oishii's GITS (haven't seen Innocence yet), but that was more in comparison to the much more lively character chemistry I loved in the manga. I thought the film was pretty to look at (I was fortunate enough to see it in a theater), but boring and not nearly as philosophically engaging as it seemed intended to be. I've found nearly all of his films that I've had the fortune or time to seeto be rather ponderous, and far more shallow than his works' rich technical merits suggest. Angel's Egg seemed like the quintessential example of his style being more about 'the journey' than 'the destination'. I'll give the podcast a listen on my way home from work tonight...! Well, that's always the thing with Oshii. His work is typically beautiful but he always walks the razor's edge of boring and pretentious and sometimes he falls on the good side, and sometimes on the bad side. While his Ghost in the Shell is definitely not the colorful bouncy work of Shirow, I feel like compared to his other movies, it's paced pretty well and has enough action to keep from getting boring (except for that interminable boat scene). Angel's Egg, on the other hand, is Oshii at his most boring and pretentious. There's almost no dialogue in it and the dialogue that's there is almost all variations on "Who are you?" and quotes from the Bible grossly out of context. Beautiful Dreamer was kind of experimental and then he got cocky and made this crap. This one of those films that people on the internet have not actually seen, but have HEARD was really great, so they get all offended when you say it's garbage, for reasons that remain obscure to me. Quote
AcroRay Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 Oh, man... I'm sorry, but I thought the podcast was really... um... horrible. I really loved the previous podcasts I'd listened to (Mac7, Avalon, the Robotech comics one) but I think your commentary in this thread was much better than the podcast, dude! (Maybe I'm just too old and my kids too young for Doug E. Funny - so that whole, long stream of analogy waskind 'a was lost on me...) Looking forward to the next one, though! Angel's Egg, on the other hand, is Oshii at his most boring and pretentious. There's almost no dialogue in it and the dialogue that's there is almost all variations on "Who are you?" and quotes from the Bible grossly out of context. Beautiful Dreamer was kind of experimental and then he got cocky and made this crap. Perhaps it was one of those situations where his previous work so charmed the folks holding the purse strings that they figured "Hey! He's a winner! Give him some cash and free reign and he'll cook up something really great for us!". I think your observation in the podcast that it was something a band would want playing on stage with them during their concert is an apt one. I usually liken works along the line of Angel's Egg to a video lava lamp. Quote
Ginrai Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) So if I say what is in the thread on a recording, that's like 5 minutes, tops, and then what do you talk about for the rest of the time? We elected to just make fun of it. Angel's Egg sucks and as soon as you stop and try to dissect it you realize it's the kind of puerile "art for art's sake" brand new art students who are thrilled at being vague create. There's no meat, so the podcast is either over in five minutes, or you make fun of it and talk about something else. A video lava lamp is a good way of putting it, for sure. Edited March 18, 2009 by Ginrai Quote
AcroRay Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 as soon as you stop and try to dissect it you realize it's the kind of puerile "art for art's sake" brand new art students who are thrilled at being vague create. There's no meat, so the podcast is either over in five minutes, or you make fun of it and talk about something else. You'd have probably had more fun cutting in a commentary track! I haven't seen it, but its to me amazing that the film would be so devoid of content or merit. Sounds like Oishii was perhaps high on his own new reputation. I'm even more intrigued to see it now than I was in my freshman year of college! The Avalon podcast was really excellent - and long, for those who haven't listened. I'm all motivated to see it now, too, while previously I'd just thought 'gad, another boring Oshii flick." Quote
Ginrai Posted March 19, 2009 Author Posted March 19, 2009 There. I just put up a NEW podcast and it is a critical analysis of Angel's Egg. I hope that suits everyone better than the previous podcast based around mocking it and discussing the proclivities of Douglas Yancy Funnie. http://www.collectiondx.com/system/files/DAPDX-093A.mp3 Quote
AcroRay Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 Now THAT was much better! Even if the movie is total crap, I'd rather have the benefit of some of your academic background in the analysis than rambles about Doug Funnie... OK... now I really have to find a copy of it! If anything, the film sounds like Oshii a dream put to film - and I don't mean that to sound as lofty as the words might normally mean. Like most dreams, the film seems to be full of colorful but ultimately vague and shallow symbolism based on elements of the dreamer's own life. I'm one of those people who doesn't hold much stock in dream analysis. Angel's Egg is perhaps just a distillation of Oshii's favorite images and icons, the ones he's internalized and tends to apply as an artist on a regular basis, and they've all surfaced in this dream he's gotten the funding to put on film. How much character development is there in the typical dream? Simply impressionistic, perhaps? My film criticism skills and background are rather poor, but for lack of better terminology Angel's Egg sounds more like a "moving painting" than a motion picture. The films seems like its not really intended to tell a story, just convey impressions or offer a few things to puzzle over while entertaining the eye. Anyhow, I should really actually see the film. Maybe I'll just say 'this is crap!'. Quote
polidread Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 here's a youtube playlist of the entire thing. goodluck keeping yourself awake ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUJ-LLcE_0...&playnext=1 Quote
Ginrai Posted March 20, 2009 Author Posted March 20, 2009 Now THAT was much better! Even if the movie is total crap, I'd rather have the benefit of some of your academic background in the analysis than rambles about Doug Funnie... Glad you enjoyed it! OK... now I really have to find a copy of it! I know there are fansubs around! If anything, the film sounds like Oshii a dream put to film - and I don't mean that to sound as lofty as the words might normally mean. Like most dreams, the film seems to be full of colorful but ultimately vague and shallow symbolism based on elements of the dreamer's own life. I'm one of those people who doesn't hold much stock in dream analysis. Angel's Egg is perhaps just a distillation of Oshii's favorite images and icons, the ones he's internalized and tends to apply as an artist on a regular basis, and they've all surfaced in this dream he's gotten the funding to put on film. How much character development is there in the typical dream? This sounds really reasonable and I'd buy that in an instant. Simply impressionistic, perhaps? My film criticism skills and background are rather poor, but for lack of better terminology Angel's Egg sounds more like a "moving painting" than a motion picture. The films seems like its not really intended to tell a story, just convey impressions or offer a few things to puzzle over while entertaining the eye. Anyhow, I should really actually see the film. Maybe I'll just say 'this is crap!'. Well, that's a good interpretation, but it ultimately leaves the viewer with an empty, hollow feeling, much like the egg. Quote
AcroRay Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 Well, that's a good interpretation, but it ultimately leaves the viewer with an empty, hollow feeling, much like the egg. Maybe that's the intent? I nabbed a torrent and skimmed it. (Probably won't have time to watch it 'till later in the weekend, or Monday). The impression I get is one of innocence and wonder giving way harsh reality, and the disillusionment that comes with it. Sure, its got a lot of Oshii's usual pet metaphores, but I think that's the simple theme he's working with. He's probably just telling it with his and Amano's own particular tool kits. Oh - Her buddy with the hair & the Cross-bow struck me more as being like Archangel Gabriel or some similar angelic dude, not Jesus. He's kind of her guardian angel, leading her to a particular place she needs to go to... adulthood. Bastard! Quote
Gui Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 It may be something like that, yes... I don't remember all the details of this movie 'cause I watched it years ago but I thought it was very good, precisely because of its "out of time" atmosphere: it is probably very symbolistic but like almost all works of this kind cannot be appreciated by everybody, just because these symbols don't obligatory interest anyone It is definitely art, and precisely surrealism: that's the main reason why some people will not like it; exploring unconscious is often a very personnal journey Quote
yellowlightman Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) It is definitely art, and precisely surrealism: that's the main reason why some people will not like it; exploring unconscious is often a very personnal journey While the movie kind of bored me (and generally I love Oshii films), if nothing else I dig it because it's so radically different from mainstream, "normal" anime productions. It's the kind of animated film you really don't see coming from the mainstream anime industry these days. Or back then either, really. Edited March 23, 2009 by yellowlightman Quote
Area88 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Great choice for a review, something I wanted to feature on my site but I consider perhaps the hardest title to do. The plot is so profound and subtle. It's defintly not everyone, this is about as niche as it can get. It's slow and deliberate, requires more patience than anything you've watched before. Oshii is like that though, just take a look at Patlabor movie 1 for instance. He's a clever, clever man. An eccentric genius! You've inspired me to watch it again, defintly going to write my own review soon. Quote
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