Yamato 1/60 VF-11B Thunderbolt - Thread 2

[Vermillion21]

Can't wait ....

[edwin3060]

So is the top part of the HS stored in the hollow section after the canards?

It would seem so, yes.

[MacrossJunkie]

I just thought of something. Since you have to detach the shield and put it on the other side of the arm yourself when going from fighter to gerwalk/battroid and vice versa, can it still technically be called perfect transformation even though the shield is part of the fighter? You could let slide the gunpod since it's not necessary for the transformation. You can even get away with not counting taking off the intake covers on this and previous VFs since it's not really needed for transformation and they are closed anyway in space, it's more of a gimmick. It only occurred to me that this would be the first time I would actually have to take something off and put it somewhere else to complete a transformation. Not that I really care for something minor like this. Not like taking the legs off like the old 1/60s. Just something more of a "oh, hmmm" moment.

[edwin3060]

I just thought of something. Since you have to detach the shield and put it on the other side of the arm yourself when going from fighter to gerwalk/battroid and vice versa, can it still technically be called perfect transformation even though the shield is part of the fighter? You could let slide the gunpod since it's not necessary for the transformation. You can even get away with not counting taking off the intake covers on this and previous VFs since it's not really needed for transformation and they are closed anyway in space, it's more of a gimmick. It only occurred to me that this would be the first time I would actually have to take something off and put it somewhere else to complete a transformation. Not that I really care for something minor like this. Not like taking the legs off like the old 1/60s. Just something more of a "oh, hmmm" moment.

I think that as long as you don't have to do any parts-swapping, it can be called perfect transformation. Bandai has an even looser definition of 'Perfect Transformation' with their DX toy requiring you to swap the hands and store the gunpod holder somewhere.

[MacrossJunkie]

Well, you don't really swap any parts on the old 1/60 vf-1's, but I don't know if many people would call those perfect transformation. And you could leave the hands for the DX's on without swapping, they just look funky with the karate chop hand pose. Still, others have shown you can leave some of the other fix posed hands in while in fighter mode. Anyway, I'll stop here before I derail this thread into a full blown PT discussion.

[jenius]

I think that as long as you don't have to do any parts-swapping, it can be called perfect transformation. Bandai has an even looser definition of 'Perfect Transformation' with their DX toy requiring you to swap the hands and store the gunpod holder somewhere.

Historically "perfect transformation" has nothing to do with accessories like guns. Many toys feature guns that are positioned in one mode, removed, and then put in a hand after transformation ignoring the magic of how the gun would have gotten into the hand. Since the gun is never integral to the transformation itself it's okay to exclude it from the perfect transformation analysis. Similar are items like the intake covers on a Yamato. You don't HAVE to remove them and add them back so the fact they can be removed doesn't affect the perfect transformation element. Historically the hands have also been ignored as many old toys had hands that were simply little squares representing fists. In the case of the Bandai DX, there are other hands that can be made to work with the transformation but the assumption is you're probably going to be swapping hands around anyway. I think everyone prefers Bandai's solution to doing something wonky like having drastically under scaled articulated hands. In the end, the only item I can think of that might not be perfect on the DX is the shield... does it have to be removed during transformation?

[Cent]

yea the shield separates entirely, and has to be fitted onto the side of the arm using the peg. I dont know if I can blame them for that though, since there is really no good way for the transformation to accompany a transformation-connected shield.

I really see the whole shield transformation as being akin to the gunpod one. Its an object that detaches from the plane entirely during transformation, and is grabbed and latched back on by the movement of the hands and arms when the VF transforms. As long as ALL the parts that were in fighter mode are reused in the battroid mode, that's pretty PT to me. Bonus points for having less anime magic where the arms/hands magically snag loose parts out of the air and incorporate them into the transformation.

[ff95gj]

I don't know if this is brought up before (sorry if it did), at first fromthe price I presumed that the size of the VF-11B would be revised to match the YF birds.

But I just checked the package size from the Yamato site, the dimension of the package is in fact almost the same as the VF-1 SSP packages, only 1cm thicker.

So I think too much... It's simply expensive! Or technical difficult to produce/ design. Not because it's bigger.

[DarkReaper]

I guess their train of thought was like this:

Is the VF-11 a hero mech? No. -> Will some casual guy buy it? No. -> Will the hardcore collector buy it? Yes -> Will he buy it at any price? Yes -> Rip him off! -> Profit!!

[logos]

I don't know if this is brought up before (sorry if it did), at first from the price I presumed that the size of the VF-11B would be revised to match the YF birds.

But I just checked the package size from the Yamato site, the dimension of the package is in fact almost the same as the VF-1 SSP packages, only 1cm thicker.

So I think too much... It's simply expensive! Or technical difficult to produce/ design. Not because it's bigger.

It's is a 1/60 so it should be close to the correct size relative to the YFs. If the packaging is smaller maybe Yamato is finally learning that we don't want GIANT FREAKIN BOXES!

Also DarkReaper I imagine that since they wouldn't be selling VF-11Bs at even close to the volumes they sell 1/60 and 1/48 VF-1s we get stuck with a larger price tag. Just the way it is and yeah it sucks. I'm still going to buy one and only one (like many) so you see where Yamato is not going to have the volume compared to VF-1s and all the repaints of those we buy. Sales is all about the volume and the VF-11 is not going to have volume.

As to the hands issue. I love the articulated hands on all the Yamato stuff except the 1/48 (just too small). Some of use don't like having to swap hands and keep track of them. All my anime hands stay with the boxes as it's just one giant paint in the ass to keep track of all those parts, like the giant armory of missles that is growing on my desk. Besides I find hands with some articulation THAT CAN BE STORED AWAY, IN THE VALK, DURING TRANSFORMATION cool. I think it's also cool that Yamato caters to people on the otherside of the fence as well.

Edited March 10, 2009 by logos

[nightmareB4macross]

Historically "perfect transformation" has nothing to do with accessories like guns. Many toys feature guns that are positioned in one mode, removed, and then put in a hand after transformation ignoring the magic of how the gun would have gotten into the hand. Since the gun is never integral to the transformation itself it's okay to exclude it from the perfect transformation analysis. Similar are items like the intake covers on a Yamato. You don't HAVE to remove them and add them back so the fact they can be removed doesn't affect the perfect transformation element. Historically the hands have also been ignored as many old toys had hands that were simply little squares representing fists. In the case of the Bandai DX, there are other hands that can be made to work with the transformation but the assumption is you're probably going to be swapping hands around anyway. I think everyone prefers Bandai's solution to doing something wonky like having drastically under scaled articulated hands. In the end, the only item I can think of that might not be perfect on the DX is the shield... does it have to be removed during transformation?

Historically "perfect transformation" means transition from fighter to battroid (robot) and gerwalk (other) while maintaining the visual aspects of what the creator intended the mecha to look in all various states of transformation, wether the tranlation is perfect or not. This has nothing to do with lineart accuracy nor perfect (connected) moving parts to accomplish each mode.

In lame man's terms:

Valkrie Fighter - looks good but fattter than usual, but can still be considered and called a Valkyrie Fighter. Check.

Battroid (robot) - looks good but has too long of a nose and the legs are too skinny, but still can be considered a Battroid. Check.

Gerwalk (other) - looks good and has all the limbs sticking out ouf it and can hold a gun in its cube shaped hands while maintaining an awkward stance unlike the anime series, but it can still be recognized and considered a Gerwalk. Check.

...and so, you get, "perfect transformation". Not lineart accurate, but it get's the job done and sells.

[IXTL]

1/60 VF-11B on display at the Miyazawa Model Show. The figure on show has the Macross kite logos in the right colors.

http://blog.hobbystock.jp/report/images/rep0249/011.jpg

[lechuck]

Judging by that pic, the VF-11 seems to have the same head height as VF-1. Doesn't look like the VF-11 size was retconned at all.

And I can see that the intake hitting the back-plate thingy is going to be a royal pain in the a** when posing.

On the positive side the feet look much better now.

[Vic Mancini]

The heat shield is genius. And I'm warming up to the overall proportions, including the small tail fins.

One thing I still can't seem to look past is the feet. Too skinny and that strange toe-hinge just throws me off.

[AcroRay]

Very, very nice indeed!

Oddly, though - I was really proud that I'd bought one of Yamato's earliest efforts when the MacPlus VF-11B was first released - even pre-ordered it! - and I'd even repaired and improved the eventual broken hips, carefully tweaked the joint ratchets and the tightness of all its screws, and left little tabs on the canopy cover so I could fold them under the canopy to hold it on mechanically rather than rely on a piece of tape like the instructions lamely suggested. Now I'm finding myself feeling a little miffed that if I want one that's actually really well made I have to buy it from them all over again...

Guess I'm now in the same boat as the rest of the VF-1 1.0-to-2.0 owners! Hah!

[logos]

Judging by that pic, the VF-11 seems to have the same head height as VF-1. Doesn't look like the VF-11 size was retconned at all.

And I can see that the intake hitting the back-plate thingy is going to be a royal pain in the a** when posing.

On the positive side the feet look much better now.

According to the Macross Mecha Manual the VF-11B is 12.92 meters and the VF-1 is 12.68 meters in battroid modes so in actuality they are quite close to the same height. In fighter mode the VF-11B is 15.51m and the VF-1 is 14.23m. So this won't be to much bigger than a VF-1 1/60 in fighter mode either. Wow I always thought it was bigger than that. At least fighter mode will be somewhat bigger.

FYI

YF-21 - Fighter - 18.62 meters; Batroid -15.48 meters (without cannon)

YF-19 - Fighter - 19.62 meters; Batroid - estimated height 15.5 meters

Either way I just bought a Q-Rau this morning so I'm going to have to hold off on this one. I just hope it hangs around a while like the YF-21.

Edited March 10, 2009 by logos

[edwin3060]

Simply amazing! It looks set to become one of Yamato's best releases yet. The fact that they listen to our feedback on things like the colour of the logo makes it that much better!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

And I can see that the intake hitting the back-plate thingy is going to be a royal pain in the a** when posing.

It's on a ball joint and it looks like it has ample clearance, so it doesn't look too bad.

[eriku]

Simply amazing! It looks set to become one of Yamato's best releases yet. The fact that they listen to our feedback on things like the colour of the logo makes it that much better!

Has Yamato said anything like, "Thanks to MacrossWorld for pointing out the incorrect kite logo color. Due to their keen eye we've corrected the mistake."

Or is everyone just assuming that they changed it because people here noticed it?

[edwin3060]

Has Yamato said anything like, "Thanks to MacrossWorld for pointing out the incorrect kite logo color. Due to their keen eye we've corrected the mistake."

Or is everyone just assuming that they changed it because people here noticed it?

They changed it after someone here on Macross World pointed it out and Graham mentioned it to Yamato HK---and then got back to us saying that Yamato told him that the colour would be changed. So yes, I think we did contribute to the colour change.

[eriku]

That's all well and good, but that just proves my point - you think we contributed to the color change, it doesn't mean we did.

Just because it was changed after Graham mentioned it doesn't mean it was because he mentioned it. Yamato could have already caught it by that point.

I'm not saying we didn't, just that I don't believe we really know for sure one way or the other. It seems strange to presume credit for something.

Edited March 10, 2009 by eriku

[MacrossJunkie]

According to the Macross Mecha Manual the VF-11B is 12.92 meters and the VF-1 is 12.68 meters in battroid modes so in actuality they are quite close to the same height. In fighter mode the VF-11B is 15.51m and the VF-1 is 14.23m. So this won't be to much bigger than a VF-1 1/60 in fighter mode either. Wow I always thought it was bigger than that. At least fighter mode will be somewhat bigger.

FYI

YF-21 - Fighter - 18.62 meters; Batroid -15.48 meters (without cannon)

YF-19 - Fighter - 19.62 meters; Batroid - estimated height 15.5 meters

Either way I just bought a Q-Rau this morning so I'm going to have to hold off on this one. I just hope it hangs around a while like the YF-21.

You have the lengths for the 21 and 19 switched. The 21/22 is the larger of the two and I believe the longest of all the fighters that the UNS has had produced to date.

...

As for why the vf-11 is around the price range of the 19 despite being smaller, one good insight into this may be here

at Yamato's GN-U article. Much more so than the amount of plastic used is the number of molds for parts that have to be made.

Due to the nature of ABS material, this would increase the number of parts due to the increase of cast molds to accomodate the material's texture. PVC can create a whole mold at once, however, ABS, due to it's harder material will create the need to make more separate parts due to it's density. The use of CAD designs increases the cost as well as development time. The essence of the collector's passion for quiality became YAMATO's passion for quality.

▲99 parts are used for this model alone.

▲This is a 3-D schematic of our most new work produced by with ABS. The excessive number of parts needed in the faithful reproduction of one leg alone can be clearly seen.

This resulted in an excessive number of parts and a snowballing overbudget

The VF-11 probably has a good number of parts due to complexity with the transformation and gimmicks if the heat shield integration is any indication. The 21 and SV-51 are also very highly complex in engineering and number of parts which is likely why their prices were so high.

Also at the same price point, the 11 comes with fast packs while the 19 didn't.

[Kicker773]

I"m going to wait until someone picks this up and reviews it... with the 1/72 it was always a pain transforming it.. now the heatshield looks cool, but how durable is it especially with the paint is the next question

[MacrossJunkie]

Mirroring what others have said, I believe the heat shield will be molded in plastic that color. The reason why the heat shield in the close up pics we've seen so far were painted is because those were still the resin prototypes. The insignia on the heat shield might be another matter, but Yamato's tampo printing has proven to be extremely durable so far.

[anime52k8]

You have the lengths for the 21 and 19 switched. The 21/22 is the larger of the two and I believe the longest of all the fighters that the UNS has had produced to date.

...

the YF-21/VF-22 have the longest published length, but the VF-14 is probably a few feet longer. the Fz-109 is just over 20 meters, since it's derived from the VF-14, the VF-14 is probably around the same size.

As for why the vf-11 is around the price range of the 19 despite being smaller, one good insight into this may be here

at Yamato's GN-U article. Much more so than the amount of plastic used is the number of molds for parts that have to be made.

The VF-11 probably has a good number of parts due to complexity with the transformation and gimmicks if the heat shield integration is any indication. The 21 and SV-51 are also very highly complex in engineering and number of parts which is likely why their prices were so high.

Also at the same price point, the 11 comes with fast packs while the 19 didn't.

I think a simpler reason as to why the VF-11 cost as much as the YF-19, even though the VF-11 is closer in size to the VF-1 is because they know ahead of time that they will sell more VF-1's. Consider that the YF-19 came out more than a year and a half ago, and they've release 2 versions; the 1/60 v2 has been out for 8 months, and the already have 4 different versions out, with another 6 coming out in the next few months.

the R&D coasts for the VF-11 and the v2 1/60 may very well be about the same, but because yamato knows that they'll be able to milk the v2's molds so heavily, they are able to charge less per unit because while it will take them longer to recoup their initial investment they're basically guaranteed to make it up eventually. with the Mac plus valks they have to make up that R&D coast in much fewer units since they'll end up making fewer of them.

[logos]

Exactly. And yes I fooked up coping and pasting the length.

The use of CAD designs increases the cost as well as development time.

I call bullshit on this one. CAD designs can increase your quality control and allow you to do virtual test fitting as well as puke out the models you need to make your molds faster. It saves you development time with the number of prototypes you don't have to do anymore and helps you figure out clearances and tolerances a million times faster. It also allows you to create something called "drawings" that allow you to remake parts and molds decades after you tossed all your molds and jigs out cause you don't make it anymore. I could list a dozen other things too. I have worked in the CAD field for a while and I'm talking from experience here. The only way it adds to cost and development time is if you don't get the software modules and computer/printer hardware you need from the start and if you have guys who are inexperienced using CAD.

All the old farts in my building bitch about how long it used to take to design machines before CAD. Now we design stuff using less people and it's quicker. Argh! Marketing bullshit strikes again! When it comes to design and engineering Marketing should keep their big mouths shut. They barely understand it so all you get is bullshit from them usually........man do I sound jaded..... ......also never let them see something your working on before it's finished and priced. Next thing you know you've only just started testing your prototype and their trying to sell the bloody thing....even before you have a good idea as to what it will cost......did I mention that I'm jaded?

Edit:

What added to their development time? Going to ABS over PVC for one. If that required a bunch of extra parts because you can't mold it the same (probably true but I've never work with PVC we only use ABS for our stuff), well of course that is going to add to development time. More parts means more drawings and more molds to make. Drawings and molds that now have to be maintained and updated to keep data integrity. This allows you to keep records of all your changes so if you need to you can go into a designs past and see if something you changed at an earlier date caused your fook up go into its parameters and quickly/easily make your change. But that's good, it gives you more quality control and record keeping. It's just good engineering.

Here's and example of how using CAD saved them time. There is no way they could make their "universal skeleton" they are using without CAD. Once you have the skeletons parameters set and the model made all you have to do is plunk it into an assembly model and start designing and adding your "surface" parts to it until your done. It causes some extra time in initial development but saves you loads of time later on the other models you are going to be making because half of it's made already! Also as time goes on and your database of parts increases you have "existing" parts that you can use or modify to save you time.

Of course I could be blowing sh*t up everybody's asses as I don't work for Yamato and I don't know how they do things in their office but if their using CAD they have to be following at least some of the practices we use at work so..................

Anyway....oh yeah this is a VF-11 thread...............it looks cool and i'll buy one just not right away, like I've said before I have to recover from my recent VF-1 purchases and Q-Rau purchase first.

Edited March 11, 2009 by logos

[schmungbeen]

Exactly. And yes I fooked up coping and pasting the length.

I call bullshit on this one. CAD designs can increase your quality control and allow you to do virtual test fitting as well as puke out the models you need to make your molds faster. It saves you development time with the number of prototypes you don't have to do anymore and helps you figure out clearances and tolerances a million times faster. It also allows you to create something called "drawings" that allow you to remake parts and molds decades after you tossed all your molds and jigs out cause you don't make it anymore. I could list a dozen other things too. I have worked in the CAD field for a while and I'm talking from experience here. The only way it adds to cost and development time is if you don't get the software modules and computer/printer hardware you need from the start and if you have guys who are inexperienced using CAD.

All the old farts in my building bitch about how long it used to take to design machines before CAD. Now we design stuff using less people and it's quicker. Argh! Marketing bullshit strikes again! When it comes to design and engineering Marketing should keep their big mouths shut. They barely understand it so all you get is bullshit from them usually........man do I sound jaded..... ......also never let them see something your working on before it's finished and priced. Next thing you know you've only just started testing your prototype and their trying to sell the bloody thing....even before you have a good idea as to what it will cost......did I mention that I'm jaded?

Edit:

What added to their development time? Going to ABS over PVC for one. If that required a bunch of extra parts because you can't mold it the same (probably true but I've never work with PVC we only use ABS for our stuff), well of course that is going to add to development time. More parts means more drawings and more molds to make. Drawings and molds that now have to be maintained and updated to keep data integrity. This allows you to keep records of all your changes so if you need to you can go into a designs past and see if something you changed at an earlier date caused your fook up go into its parameters and quickly/easily make your change. But that's good, it gives you more quality control and record keeping. It's just good engineering.

Here's and example of how using CAD saved them time. There is no way they could make their "universal skeleton" they are using without CAD. Once you have the skeletons parameters set and the model made all you have to do is plunk it into an assembly model and start designing and adding your "surface" parts to it until your done. It causes some extra time in initial development but saves you loads of time later on the other models you are going to be making because half of it's made already! Also as time goes on and your database of parts increases you have "existing" parts that you can use or modify to save you time.

Of course I could be blowing sh*t up everybody's asses as I don't work for Yamato and I don't know how they do things in their office but if their using CAD they have to be following at least some of the practices we use at work so..................

Anyway....oh yeah this is a VF-11 thread...............it looks cool and i'll buy one just not right away, like I've said before I have to recover from my recent VF-1 purchases and Q-Rau purchase first.

I agree with all of the above. Im no genius, nor CAD engineer (I am an engineer tho... +1 for me), but to claim CAD costs them money is a bit of a farce. Particularly seeing as all they really to is remould heads and make slightly different paint apps...

Copy. Paste. add colour. New design...

What field did you work in that used ABS???

Ditto again with the VF-11B - Im gonna wait for a review first. Masterpiece grimlock and the VF-1s have preference, as they should (...). It looks cool so far though.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

They changed it after someone here on Macross World pointed it out and Graham mentioned it to Yamato HK---and then got back to us saying that Yamato told him that the colour would be changed. So yes, I think we did contribute to the colour change.

You're giving MacrossWorld too much credit. The Yamato team most likely already knew about the color differences. They've made the VF-11 8 years ago and it came with the correct stickers, and the red/white ones if you wanted that option.

I'm not saying we didn't, just that I don't believe we really know for sure one way or the other. It seems strange to presume credit for something.

In my experience, fans tend to claim credit for many things that they themselves did not contribute but love to think they contributed.

[MacrossJunkie]

the YF-21/VF-22 have the longest published length, but the VF-14 is probably a few feet longer. the Fz-109 is just over 20 meters, since it's derived from the VF-14, the VF-14 is probably around the same size.

I think a simpler reason as to why the VF-11 cost as much as the YF-19, even though the VF-11 is closer in size to the VF-1 is because they know ahead of time that they will sell more VF-1's. Consider that the YF-19 came out more than a year and a half ago, and they've release 2 versions; the 1/60 v2 has been out for 8 months, and the already have 4 different versions out, with another 6 coming out in the next few months.

the R&D coasts for the VF-11 and the v2 1/60 may very well be about the same, but because yamato knows that they'll be able to milk the v2's molds so heavily, they are able to charge less per unit because while it will take them longer to recoup their initial investment they're basically guaranteed to make it up eventually. with the Mac plus valks they have to make up that R&D coast in much fewer units since they'll end up making fewer of them.

Ah, I plain forgot about the Elgerzorene. You're right, that one is longer, though it's actually based off the VA-14 rather than the VF-14 which is a smaller craft. So I guess the largest would be the VA-14 followed by the VF-22 as far as mass produced UNS variable fighters go, but I'm going off on a tangent now...

I've no doubt that the economy of scale factors in a good bit, but it wouldn't seem logical to me to completely throw out the notion that having to make molds for something that requires a great number of individual pieces would be more costly than something that requires fewer parts to make. I've never made molds for models before, but I've read many times that making molds and the corresponding tooling costs for production is expensive... or something like that In fact, it would lead me to consider the two together as a multiplicative effect to the cost (i.e. Not only is it more expensive due to the complexity and number of parts, they don't expect to sell as many and so the high cost is divided among fewer units).

And let's not forget that, as mentioned before, the VF-11 comes with fast packs while the 19 didn't (at comparable price ranges)

[anime52k8]

Ah, I plain forgot about the Elgerzorene. You're right, that one is longer, though it's actually based off the VA-14 rather than the VF-14 which is a smaller craft. So I guess the largest would be the VA-14 followed by the VF-22 as far as mass produced UNS variable fighters go, but I'm going off on a tangent now...

I've no doubt that the economy of scale factors in a good bit, but it wouldn't seem logical to me to completely throw out the notion that having to make molds for something that requires a great number of individual pieces would be more costly than something that requires fewer parts to make. I've never made molds for models before, but I've read many times that making molds and the corresponding tooling costs for production is expensive... or something like that In fact, it would lead me to consider the two together as a multiplicative effect to the cost (i.e. Not only is it more expensive due to the complexity and number of parts, they don't expect to sell as many and so the high cost is divided among fewer units).

And let's not forget that, as mentioned before, the VF-11 comes with fast packs while the 19 didn't (at comparable price ranges)

technically the Fz-109 is based of the VF-14, and the Az-130 is based of the VA-14, at least until SK says otherwise (the vampire is such an under appreciated valk, it deserves more info and screen time)

anyways, the thing I wounder is how much more complex the VF-11 is compared to other Yamato VF's.

[VF-18S Hornet]

So when is the pre-order

[MacrossJunkie]

technically the Fz-109 is based of the VF-14, and the Az-130 is based of the VA-14, at least until SK says otherwise (the vampire is such an under appreciated valk, it deserves more info and screen time)

anyways, the thing I wounder is how much more complex the VF-11 is compared to other Yamato VF's.

Dang it, I looked it up on the compendium to check and I guess I got mixed up. I was thinking the larger of the two varauta fighters was based on the larger of the the two 14 variants. Apparently that isn't the case as the smaller Az-130 is based off the larger VA-14 while the larger Fz-109 is based on the smaller VF-14. Go figure... Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[MacrossJunkie]

So when is the pre-order

The pre-order has been available for some time.

Here's one at Over Drive http://www.over-drive-inc.com/store/produc...roducts_id=1132

Can't seem to find the one on HLJ anymore.

[eriku]

anyways, the thing I wounder is how much more complex the VF-11 is compared to other Yamato VF's.

I'm wondering about the complexity too. When I look at the pics we've seen it almost looks like it could be the most simple transformation on a Yamato valk so far, unless there are complexities that aren't outwardly apparent. I'm very excited for this toy!

Edited March 11, 2009 by eriku

[MacrossJunkie]

It might not be complex transformation wise as much as probably just requiring a lot of parts externally/internally to be made and be put together. Looking at the destroid line, in addition to economy of scale, you can see how there's an extraordinary number of bits and pieces snapped, glued, screwed together to make up the finished product despite it not even being a transformable design. Even those bracings or whatever those bumps on the front of the legs are called are individual pieces for some reason.