Yamato $2000 DYRL MACROSS

[Ignacio Ocamica]

The reason I was told for not using ABS is that the injection molding machines in the Chinese toy factories cannot handle the large size of some of the parts.

Graham

I would have said: the factories Yamato "works with" don't have the proper machines.

I see a lot of folks storming the thread with examples of other toys produced in China with far larger ABS parts

If you are allowed, I'd like to know what the estimated retail price Yamato had originally planned, cause according to this thread $500 was set in stone. I think this was an irrational hope.

Thanks for looking into this matter.

[Ghadrack]

We've had two of our talented kit makers on the board talk seriously about making a macross kit in the same scale range for a fraction of the price, (I know we are in the toys thread, sorry) but the discussion of this thing being on the horizon I suspect put them both off the idea. All i can say is no way in heck I'm gonna fork over $2,000 for a toy or model of the Macross, I want one, but that's too much for this collector.

[Neova]

The resin used is not the same type of resin used for garage kits, I was told it is used in the automobile industry and is supposed to be very strong.

If its PU or Polyurethane, then it is a used in BUMPERS, dashboards, interior trim, seats (as a foam) in automobiles. The last project I used it was for a mass production foam product. By varying the density, you control strenght vs flexibility but am not sure if it can capture detail as good as ABS but it is a tough material when dense.

As for using this material instead of ABS due to "large" parts injection, take a look at Hot Toys 1/6 Batman Tumbler. The body is assembled from multiple ABS panels and if you factor in man hours, it still cost nearly 1/10 of the proposed cost of the SDF-1.

Again, I have never seen high detail parts from PU but I cannot imagine it to cost a relative 5x as much as a high detailed ABS product.

[vf_1s]

have requested clarifying information from Yamato, stay tuned.

However, as far as I know (although this information is a bit old), it will be sold assembled and pre-painted.

The resin used is not the same type of resin used for garage kits, I was told it is used in the automobile industry and is supposed to be very strong.

The reason I was told for not using ABS is that the injection molding machines in the Chinese toy factories cannot handle the large size of some of the parts.

Graham

Hi Graham:

Can you explain what do you mean by "it will be sold assembled and pre-painted" ? Are you referring to the $2000 HDR model kit??? I thought it is only molded in color, and you have to assemble it yourself? Or are you talking about another toy version that is yet to come out???

Please please please let us know asap, as I am about to transfer money for the model kit. If there is an assembled version in the future, I will wait for it.

Thanks!!!

[Uxi]

Care to take another shot at this I know Im not the only one that want this...

I'm in for 1/2000 for $500 if it includes Daedalus, Prometheus, and 2 ARMD's.

[nugundamII]

have requested clarifying information from Yamato, stay tuned.

However, as far as I know (although this information is a bit old), it will be sold assembled and pre-painted.

The resin used is not the same type of resin used for garage kits, I was told it is used in the automobile industry and is supposed to be very strong.

The reason I was told for not using ABS is that the injection molding machines in the Chinese toy factories cannot handle the large size of some of the parts.

Graham

I need to add a disclaimer:

Im not trying to start a fight

but will you be getting your "freebie" for this one?

[Save]

I would have said: the factories Yamato "works with" don't have the proper machines.

In a way you are correct, the proper machines with the ABS technology to make it with the amount of detail @ 1/2000 scale don't exist yet.

I need to add a disclaimer:

Im not trying to start a fight

but will you be getting your "freebie" for this one?

The CAD engineers that worked on it don't get one, not to mention not even Kawamori got his two free.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Save

[Graham]

OK, had a long talk on the phone with Yamato last night and here's what I was told.

• The $2,000 SDF-1 is an exact replica of Yamato’s prototype and is being marketed as such. It is neither a toy, or a model kit per say.

• Each one is being individually built by the prototype maker, not mass produced in a Chinese toy factory. This is why the high cost. I was told that it can often cost a million yen getting prototypes made. Yamato will only be having a small run of these made and had to negotiate quite hard with the maker to get the price they did.

• It will be sold unpainted.

• It will be sold partially assembled. The major sub-assemblies, such as the ARMDs, body, legs, etc will be pre-assembled and then the customer just has to bolt everything together.

• The joints will be ratchet joints and will be made of hard nylon for durability.

• The main material IIRC is High Density Polyethylene (HDP), which has excellent tensile strength and impact resistance. I was told it is 6 times stronger than the type of resin used for garage kits. As mentioned, HDP is widely used on cars.

• Why are Yamato even selling this? – Well, when they originally had the prototype made, Yamato thought that it would be possible to produce it in ABS at a lower cost. Unfortunately, with the tooling limitations of the toy factories they use, it was not possible to mass produce it. So rather than scrap the whole project and write it off as a loss, they decided to still offer it to those hard-core fans who just had to have a large scale SDF-1.

• For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

And yes, for those curious, I have been offered one and call me crazy, but I will probably turn it down, as a) it's too big for my shoebox sized Hong Kong appartment and b) I'd honestly feel guilty about accepting such an expensive gift for free.

Graham

[hutch]

Graham, you're crazy....

Seriously though, thanks for the info.

[Funkenstein]

Just as I thought. I always felt that a 1/2000 scale Macross would be too big for the kind of transformation it would do. The joints would turn to crap after a few transformations, if they're not made of very rigid materials .

[UN_MARINE]

thanks, Graham.

• The $2,000 SDF-1 is an exact replica of Yamato’s prototype and is being marketed as such. It is neither a toy, or a model kit per say.
• Each one is being individually built by the prototype maker, not mass produced in a Chinese toy factory. This is why the high cost. I was told that it can often cost a million yen getting prototypes made. Yamato will only be having a small run of these made and had to negotiate quite hard with the maker to get the price they did.
• For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

Graham

see? didn't i say there was no need for panic?

it's unfortunate that we won't get the 2ft tall one, but at least we know there's hope for a smaller, more affordable one.

if the V2.0 VF-1 is any indication of what they could do to the SDF-1 if they shrunk it, then i'm all for the smaller SDF-1.

[CF18]

[*]For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

Hmm... when will the world economy recover...

And yes, for those curious, I have been offered one and call me crazy, but I will probably turn it down, as a) it's too big for my shoebox sized Hong Kong appartment and b) I'd honestly feel guilty about accepting such an expensive gift for free.

Auction it off at the next MWCON, money goes to MW server and hosting cost?

[vf_1s]

OK, had a long talk on the phone with Yamato last night and here's what I was told.

• The $2,000 SDF-1 is an exact replica of Yamato’s prototype and is being marketed as such. It is neither a toy, or a model kit per say.

• Each one is being individually built by the prototype maker, not mass produced in a Chinese toy factory. This is why the high cost. I was told that it can often cost a million yen getting prototypes made. Yamato will only be having a small run of these made and had to negotiate quite hard with the maker to get the price they did.

• It will be sold unpainted.

• It will be sold partially assembled. The major sub-assemblies, such as the ARMDs, body, legs, etc will be pre-assembled and then the customer just has to bolt everything together.

• The joints will be ratchet joints and will be made of hard nylon for durability.

• The main material IIRC is High Density Polyethylene (HDP), which has excellent tensile strength and impact resistance. I was told it is 6 times stronger than the type of resin used for garage kits. As mentioned, HDP is widely used on cars.

• Why are Yamato even selling this? – Well, when they originally had the prototype made, Yamato thought that it would be possible to produce it in ABS at a lower cost. Unfortunately, with the tooling limitations of the toy factories they use, it was not possible to mass produce it. So rather than scrap the whole project and write it off as a loss, they decided to still offer it to those hard-core fans who just had to have a large scale SDF-1.

• For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

And yes, for those curious, I have been offered one and call me crazy, but I will probably turn it down, as a) it's too big for my shoebox sized Hong Kong appartment and b) I'd honestly feel guilty about accepting such an expensive gift for free.

Graham

Thank you very very much for clarifying this Graham! That was much appreciated. It is good news that we don't have to glue it together at least, and screw means the kit is somewhat playable.

One last note, so there is for sure no painting of any sort on this? and what we saw in the pictures is what we get?

Thanks

[promethuem5]

Glad to hear it's cleared up... I, too think you should take the offer, Graham, and use it in some fashion for the site, maybe some kind of raffle for site funds, or a benefit?

[Hikaru VF-1S]

OK, had a long talk on the phone with Yamato last night and here's what I was told.

• The $2,000 SDF-1 is an exact replica of Yamato’s prototype and is being marketed as such. It is neither a toy, or a model kit per say.

• Each one is being individually built by the prototype maker, not mass produced in a Chinese toy factory. This is why the high cost. I was told that it can often cost a million yen getting prototypes made. Yamato will only be having a small run of these made and had to negotiate quite hard with the maker to get the price they did.

• It will be sold unpainted.

• It will be sold partially assembled. The major sub-assemblies, such as the ARMDs, body, legs, etc will be pre-assembled and then the customer just has to bolt everything together.

• The joints will be ratchet joints and will be made of hard nylon for durability.

• The main material IIRC is High Density Polyethylene (HDP), which has excellent tensile strength and impact resistance. I was told it is 6 times stronger than the type of resin used for garage kits. As mentioned, HDP is widely used on cars.

• Why are Yamato even selling this? – Well, when they originally had the prototype made, Yamato thought that it would be possible to produce it in ABS at a lower cost. Unfortunately, with the tooling limitations of the toy factories they use, it was not possible to mass produce it. So rather than scrap the whole project and write it off as a loss, they decided to still offer it to those hard-core fans who just had to have a large scale SDF-1.

• For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

And yes, for those curious, I have been offered one and call me crazy, but I will probably turn it down, as a) it's too big for my shoebox sized Hong Kong appartment and b) I'd honestly feel guilty about accepting such an expensive gift for free.

Graham

Thanks for clarifying this sitaution. Alright I'm going to call you CRAZY but we each have our own morality and ethics....You dont want it to be too smalll of a SDF-1 but anything that looks good and at a reasonable price Im probably going to end up buying. I wouldnt mind spending if the target price point is arond $500-$700 for a good size and detailed SDF-1.

Again thanks.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Hikaru VF-1S

[Valkyrie addict]

Thanks G-man

every man should seek happiness for himself despite the sorry state of the world...so Graham, please take your freebie SDF-1 so at least somebody in MW will have one, ahhaha and of course, making it 2000 bucks that Yamato will not see

Edited November 6, 2009 by Valkyrie addict

[Mog]

Auction it off at the next MWCON, money goes to MW server and hosting cost?

I like this idea!

---------------------------------

Thank you, Graham, for getting us an update on this whole situation.

Please thank your Yamato contact too for taking the time to answer our questions and clear up the situation.

If we can't get the 2-foot tall Holy Grail, maybe we'll still wind up with a 1/3000 or even a 1/2500 scale version?

Oh well, we can use the extra time, money, and savings to our advantage once again.

[BlueMax]

Auction it off at the next MWCON, money goes to MW server and hosting cost?

I agree as well, accept it on behalf of MW community at large for the purpose of fund raising for the upkeep of this site (Thanks Shawn for paying the bills... I believe this is still the case right?) , so that this site can continue to THE premier English site for all things Macross. At the same time, maybe they can include some kind of statement along with it to acknowledge the existence and support of overseas fans or something like that.

Sounds like a good idea for a PR move.

Of course, thank you Graham for getting the information for us, and please pass our thanks to Yamato for sharing the background story as well. Now we know there is good reason for this, though it is really a shame that this won't be mass produced.

EDIT: The SDF-1 of course should preferably be auctioned off during MWCon 2010. Makes it more exciting and it will also serve as an incentive for people to attend. All proceeds go to the maintenance of the siteas mentioned above, or can be channelled into the organisation of MWCon 2011 to get new prizes or to offset organisation expenses. Another related possibility is to use the money gained to reimburse the person(s) organising the event for all the time and effort put in. Just some random ideas that came to me.

Edited November 6, 2009 by BlueMax

[Mechinyun]

I agree as well, accept it on behalf of MW community at large for the purpose of fund raising for the upkeep of this site (Thanks Shawn for paying the bills... I believe this is still the case right?) , so that this site can continue to THE premier English site for all things Macross. At the same time, maybe they can some kind of statement along with it to acknowledge the existence and support of overseas fans or something like that.

Sounds like a good idea for a PR move.

Of course, thank you Graham for getting the information for us, and please pass our thanks to Yamato for sharing the background story as well. Now we know there is good reason for this, though it is really a shame that this won't be mass produced.

like this

[Neova]

[*]For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

No, that is not what we want. We want a big, affordable, perfect transforming and fully finished product. Not a cut down smaller item. For that, we can wait for Bandai to re-released their old 1/2500 DX then! Whats the point?

And yes, for those curious, I have been offered one and call me crazy, but I will probably turn it down, as a) it's too big for my shoebox sized Hong Kong appartment and b) I'd honestly feel guilty about accepting such an expensive gift for free.

I think you should accept this on behalf of MW and give us an indepth review with tons of pictures. There are lot of Macross fans with design, engineering and product development backgrounds here who are able and willing to offer free advice to Yamato to make this into a viable mass production item.

Also, since when has 24" been "too big"? Thats the same as 2x 1/48 Battroids or nearly the same size as the 1/4 scale Minmay! I'm sure fellow MW members would gladly help you store some of your collection to make space for the SDF-1.

Please reconsider and have it shipped to you ASAP.

[Agent-GHQ]

Do you feel remorsed or that sense of guilt for not accepting this so called large not toy or model kit per say??? If your home is too small for it, you got lots of fan elsewhere around the world who would gladly accept this so call large SDF. Its still small to me, but that's just me!

[m0n5t3r]

guess that settles that... me, i guess i have more patience than money

<----- (wondering who is PM'ing Graham for his possible freebie SDF-1)

EDIT - but yeah, just give it to Shawn on behalf of MW... if anybody here deserves a free SDF-1...

Edited November 6, 2009 by m0n5t3r

[Negotiator]

Also, Graham, "assembly required" is nothing new so if it helps to break things up to be affordable for the mass prod' sdf, I'm sure no one would have a problem using a screw driver.

[VFTF1]

Wow. Who would have thought that the truth was that they couldn't mass produce it and so decided to sell them on a per-customer/per-order basis?

Wow. not me.

Wow. I thought Yamato was just evil and produced things we all want and then jacked up the prices to spite us because this is how the world works. Like that's why bread and milk and water cost a million dollars. Or don't they?

Wow. Anyways, it's wierd hearing that they have labor costs. And what's this about a factory and machines and a million yen that it costs to develop something like this?

Wow. A million yen. I was sure Yamato was paying a blind legless chinese man half a piece of an Amerian penny to come up with this stuff.

Wow.

I'm shocked.

Pete

Edited November 6, 2009 by VFTF1

[bluemax151]

Not to minimize it but a Million yen is only like $11,000. That's about the cost of a decent motorcycle for instance. Just makes you wonder how large the rest of the associated development costs were.

[macrossnake]

OK, had a long talk on the phone with Yamato last night and here's what I was told.

• For those wanting a smaller, more affordable SDF-1, I’ll just say that patience is a virtue and the virtuous are often rewarded.

Graham

Great new, thx Graham.

[Cent]

So tell me, when are they going to come out with that HWR kit for those few rich people? They seemed to have written that off just fine. T_T

I wonder if a reproduction kit of that would be around the 2000 range too?

[VFTF1]

Not to minimize it but a Million yen is only like $11,000. That's about the cost of a decent motorcycle for instance. Just makes you wonder how large the rest of the associated development costs were.

Good point. That is a relatively low development cost.

I guess they just need to figure out how to mass produce it to bring the price per unit down then.

Pete

[Omegablue]

Take it, auction it off, and give the money to charity if you're feeling guilty about it?

Edited November 6, 2009 by Omegablue

[Desty_Nova]

The possibility of a smaller toy version doesn't exactly please me, operative word being "smaller" I didn't start collecting yamatos to settle for second best and I don't entirely accept the excuse we've been offered either.

Feels like they've given up too easily on this one. Obviously not ALL the parts are too big to be injection moulded, and surely there are work-arounds for the ones that are.

In a way you are correct, the proper machines with the ABS technology to make it with the amount of detail @ 1/2000 scale don't exist yet.

It's not like all the large parts would really be that detailed, or that they must be one solid piece.

[Funkenstein]

Auction it off, and post the pictures on Robotech.com!

[Cyclone Trooper]

I didn't start collecting yamatos to settle for second best and I don't entirely accept the excuse we've been offered either.

Feels like they've given up too easily on this one. Obviously not ALL the parts are too big to be injection moulded, and surely there are work-arounds for the ones that are.

It's not like all the large parts would really be that detailed, or that they must be one solid piece.

But the reason given is what it is. And no amount of boycotting Yamato is going to change the fact that they put an assload of effort into this project only to end up having it SORT OF turn into vaporware. This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and probably won't be the last (the 1/60 Monster most likely suffered the same kind of materials issues), so if an SDF-1 under 5-feet tall isn't your cup of saki, then you aren't required to purchase one. There are many of us who are glad to hear that Yamato hasn't just thrown in the towel and abandoned furthering the SDF-1 project altogether. If it's made into a 1/3000 scale similar to the old Tat/Matchbox version(s), I certainly wouldn't mind, nor would the vast majority of MWers. If the SDF-1 is just too damned big, bulky and heavy to realistically mass-produce at the 1/2000 scale, then so be it. Yamato at least tried. But a number of factors were against the designers from the get-go...and this can simply be tossed up to being a learning experience for the company: Don't try to bite off more than you can chew in the current economy. And like any company would do, it's attempting to recoup what it invested into this project by offering this SDF-1 up as a super-exclusive "built-to-order" item to hardcore collectors instead of just scrapping it and eating its losses.

Graham has hinted that a more affordable SDF-1 is somewhere in Yamato's pipeline for us. I completely understand that R&D costs, tooling up costs, materials, public and retailer interest and other factors ultimately determine the overall price of an item, but even some of the more well-to-do MW members who normally have no problem spending $500 to $600 at a time for Macross items were finding the $2300 price point a tad hard to swallow. To put it into perspective, that's the equivalent to about 6 months' worth of car payment for some people...all for a 2 1/2 ft plastic model kit. I never bought into the whole "Yamato is an evil corporate entity who's only goal is pure unadulterated greed" theme that sprung up after the shock of the price wore off. But at the same time, I also couldn't responsibly justify myself spending that kind of cash on something that--iconic as it is--wasn't at all practical, even to an avid collector. So what if affordable = smaller? Graham outright said that Yamato doesn't have the facilities nor the equipment available to it to produce some people's idea of an "Ultimate SDF-1" using the same resins that automakers use. That's just a fact that we're all going to have to accept and get used to. Smaller means that Yamato will be able to provide us with the same level of detail and gimmicks we've gotten spoiled on with its V2 Valkyries and Destroids while using the materials it readily has available instead of having to experiment with resins and plastics that its factories aren't set up to use.

Just my 2-cents...

Edited November 6, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[VFTF1]

Meh.

If people think the bitching and complaining is bad because Yamato DIDN'T release this to the general public...

Imagine just how many "screw you Yamato!" threads there would have been if Yamato HAD released it, and it started breaking in people's hands

If anything - this is a QC victory - they concluded it wouldn't work...yet. Back to the drawing board.

Good. Bravo.

Like Graham said - be patient.

I for instance am holding out for a 1:1 Minmei android who does everything we possibly could dream of

Pete

[Cyclone Trooper]

If anything - this is a QC victory - they concluded it wouldn't work...yet. Back to the drawing board.

Pete

You just summed up in two sentences what I spent two entire paragraphs trying to say!

Edited November 6, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[VFTF1]

You just summed up in two sentences what I spent two entire paragraphs trying to say!

That's odd. It's usually the other way around.

Pete