Official Bandai 1/60 Scale DX Toy Thread Ver.4

[honkhet]

So does that make Kawamori an inexperienced third party Chinese designer?

no doubt he is a first class anime mecha designer,

...but is he new to toy design?

Edited March 26, 2009 by honkhet

[ff95gj]

well, it's open to debate and we could get into discussion on some of the nuances of Japanese culture specifically the ideas of 'face' and 'social harmony' but I'm going to chose to accept what the article says at face value.

Of course we'll never learn the truth on what someone actually thinks...

I don't think that is only Japanese culture? I think that's global PR practice...

I should get back to topic. A local shop told me that RVF-25 would be there tomorrow (as expected).

I am wondering if the RVF-25 would be sold as well as the 25G? Personally the RVF-25 is less appealing to me...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

no doubt he is a first class anime mecha designer,

...but is he new to toy design?

Not at all. He was a designer on Diaclone toys, such as the F-15 that was eventually repainted as Starscream in Transformers, and did Powered Convoy, and maybe Battle Convoy too, which turned into Ultra Magnus and Optimus Prime in the TF line, Later he designed Hybrid Style Convoy and Masterpiece Starscream.

During the design of the 1/55 VF-1, he did help out with the transformation mechanisms.

[MacrossJunkie]

Some additional notes from the Figure Oh article -

Kawamori really liked the way the shoulder turned out sturdy with the use of diecast metal. This was one area he was concerned about in terms of sturdiness. He is also happy that the articulation turned out nicely. The Bandai rep says the initial prototype had difficulty raising the shoulders and after floating many ideas it was decided to simply use the transformation system as part of the joints. Lo and behold he says it worked great.

There is one area Kawamori wishes he attended to better - the shield. He says that he should've designed the shield attachment simpler. That had he done so, it would've done away with attaching the shield support part and would've allowed the back to fully cover the canopy in battroid mode. He regrets this point and admits it's something he needs to put in mind.

*I don't have the DX toy yet. Does anyone know what he's talking about in regards to the shield?

the back plate in battroid doesn't fully cover the canopy of the cockpit when looking at it from the side.

What I don't get is how changing the way the shield attached would have allowed the canopy to be covered.

[ff95gj]

the back plate in battroid doesn't fully cover the canopy of the cockpit when looking at it from the side.

What I don't get is how changing the way the shield attached would have allowed the canopy to be covered.

Please correct me if I am wrong; I can read only 30-40% out of Japanese.

It says something like as currently there are some parts in the backplate for attaching the shield (fighter mode I believe), these parts stand in the way so the backplate cannot cover the canopy well enough.

Anyone with a DX on hand, please check if this is the case...

Edited March 26, 2009 by ff95gj

[anotheran]

Please correct me if I am wrong; I can read only 30-40% out of Japanese.

It says something like as currently there are some parts in the backplate for attaching the shield (fighter mode I believe), these parts stand in the way so the backplate cannot cover the canopy well enough.

Anyone with a DX on hand, please check if this is the case...

I think he's talking about this piece:

That part slides down to attach the shield. I just leave it in the down position and never bother to push it back up in battroid mode.

Edited March 26, 2009 by anotheran

[MacrossJunkie]

I think he's talking about this piece:

Ah, thanks. That makes much more sense now.

[Alex]

Got my Michel lastnight (i played around with him enough so I think I have the right to call him that rather than Mikhail )

God that hip and crotch armour is frustrating. It never stays on when transforming it between modes. I'm gonna have to get some blu-tak on that area.

Other than that, very nice, not as nice as the MP Grim or Toynami Tread, but nice.

[edwin3060]

Some additional notes from the Figure Oh article -

Kawamori really liked the way the shoulder turned out sturdy with the use of diecast metal. This was one area he was concerned about in terms of sturdiness. He is also happy that the articulation turned out nicely. The Bandai rep says the initial prototype had difficulty raising the shoulders and after floating many ideas it was decided to simply use the transformation system as part of the joints. Lo and behold he says it worked great.

There is one area Kawamori wishes he attended to better - the shield. He says that he should've designed the shield attachment simpler. That had he done so, it would've done away with attaching the shield support part and would've allowed the back to fully cover the canopy in battroid mode. He regrets this point and admits it's something he needs to put in mind.

*I don't have the DX toy yet. Does anyone know what he's talking about in regards to the shield?

Hehe that shoulder statement is a little ironic considering that most of the breakages we have had are due to the shoulder screws breaking-- but the problem would be much worse I guess (and we have only had what, 4-5 reports of breaking screws?).

Well, the shield problem would never even come up with the VF-27 since the backplate for the VF-27 is not part of the shield! So get on with it already!

[GGemini]

On page 7 he says he wants a VF-27 and VF-171 made soon. I think that's his hint to Bandai. Bandai's guy says he'd like to get them made as well. Also says he'd like to get a VF100s VF-171 made.

VF-171! Yessss!!

Nice to see Mr. K supervising the DX team... maybe he finally finished building all the model kits and now has time for the DX

I think that with the feedback that Bandai is receiving and Kawamori's input, we'll see improvements in the line. The downside is... how many DX versions of the same VF can we buy?

[ff95gj]

From 1999:

[SVF-Gerwalk]

VF-171! Yessss!!

Nice to see Mr. K supervising the DX team... maybe he finally finished building all the model kits and now has time for the DX

I think that with the feedback that Bandai is receiving and Kawamori's input, we'll see improvements in the line. The downside is... how many DX versions of the same VF can we buy?

Is to late to make a new version, may be Q4 or next year or never ...

I´m really disappointed with the DX, lack of acuracy, wing bend up, paint lose, legs problem, back plate that no cover all ...

The interview is marketing BS all, the entire mechanism that supports the transformation of the model is a disaster, including the shoulders that is the worst.

I made this conclusion comparing the DX with the 1/72 model kit, that is awesome, full acuracy, good legs, good wings, awesome back plate ...

I´m thinking in cancel my RVF-25 and VF-25S Armour, and concentrate on model kits untill the DX turned on other way.

[SVF-Gerwalk]

Legs up !!, I see it and irritates me more

[badboy00z]

Well, the shield problem would never even come up with the VF-27 since the backplate for the VF-27 is not part of the shield! So get on with it already!

I'm pretty sure it's the same as the 25. Where else would the shield go? Mounted on the arm ventral side?

[edwin3060]

I'm pretty sure it's the same as the 25. Where else would the shield go? Mounted on the arm ventral side?

On the underside of the backplate.

If you look at the gerwalk mode of the VF-27 here:

You can clearly see that the backplate doesn't break in half to become the shield, unlike the VF-25.

[Renato]

I got the Michel yesterday. It is my first DX Valk. Some thoughts (although mostly disappointments), after only playing around with it for about an hour in total:

The hip armour is just total BS. It is beyond a joke. They fall off at the slightest touch.

Knees cannot bend backwards with the super packs on, due to the rear-calf armour reaching too high up and restricting the range of the kneejoint.

I liked the tiny details on the missiles inside the shoulder packs.

The groin connection: This is my biggest problem with the toy. The tiny, tiny plug connecting the two halves of the toy together in Battroid mode is too weak to sustain the weight of the upper half, particularly when all the Super parts are on. So the whole thing just crumbles in half. It gets really, really repetitive and annoying.

I disliked a lot of the design of the toy from the beginning, but when I heard about how pleased everyone was due to its sturdiness, I thought I would give it a chance, and that since I had low expectations due to its looks, I may end up liking it for what it is: a playable, fun toy, which resembles the cartoon closely enough.

However, even that small expectation was dashed. I thought this toy was supposed to be fun to play with, but alas, it may just turn out to be just another display piece. Which means, yet again, I have to say the model kit serves all of these purposes much better, and is much more affordable.

It's still early days and my views still may change, but so far this thing to me like it has neither looks, durability, nor play-value. If it's gonna rest on a shelf, there's the super messiah kit which I have yet to build.

[ff95gj]

I got the Michel yesterday. It is my first DX Valk. Some thoughts (although mostly disappointments), after only playing around with it for about an hour in total:

The DX is a toy without the super parts. You can play with it, and it feels sturdy.

With the super parts... I don't know what it is. If you try to pose it, some parts are falling off for sure.

An expensive, not-appealing-enough display piece?

Me too I heard a lot from MWers that how this toy looks better in real life than in pics and how fun it is to play with... and I thought I would change my view when I can get my hands on it... But my view hasn't change much as of yet.

I must confess that I still plan to collect the whole Skull squad... I do it out of love for the VF-25s, but not for the DX.

[Renato]

Then you're better off getting the kits. You don't even need to paint them.

And my DX collapses even without the super parts on. I might eventually coat the connectors with nail varnish and see if that helps. For the time being, I honestly cannot see what the fuss is about. I guess it's alright, but I wouldn't get another and definitely not worth the price.

I will put the stand together next.

Oh, I should add, the most impressive thing was Bandai's usage of space in their packaging. While you can fit ten valkyries inside one Yamato box, the Bandai boxes are compacted to the max with tons of stuff packed inside. I am really impressed with that. Kind of pathetic that the box is the most impressive thing, though.

[ff95gj]

Then you're better off getting the kits. You don't even need to paint them.

And my DX collapses even without the super parts on. I might eventually coat the connectors with nail varnish and see if that helps. For the time being, I honestly cannot see what the fuss is about. I guess it's alright, but I wouldn't get another and definitely not worth the price.

I will put the stand together next.

Oh, I should add, the most impressive thing was Bandai's usage of space in their packaging. While you can fit ten valkyries inside one Yamato box, the Bandai boxes are compacted to the max with tons of stuff packed inside. I am really impressed with that. Kind of pathetic that the box is the most impressive thing, though.

I'll get the model kits too. Two bad things with the model kits, is that I dare not to transform them, and that you can't wear the super parts at will. Those are the major reasons I get the DX... I don't blame the models, just that the DX has values in this way.

And yes, how I wish the thickness of the 1/48 Yamato boxes can be reduced by half!

[eriku]

The groin connection: This is my biggest problem with the toy. The tiny, tiny plug connecting the two halves of the toy together in Battroid mode is too weak to sustain the weight of the upper half, particularly when all the Super parts are on. So the whole thing just crumbles in half.

I have the same problem on mine and it really does taint the whole toy because what fun is a battroid that can't hold together? I highly recommend using some clear nail polish or superglue (or some say Future Floor Polish) on the peg and trying that. It worked wonders on mine and it now holds together perfectly. I still hate that connection point though and think there has to be some way to do it better.

[edwin3060]

I got the Michel yesterday. It is my first DX Valk. Some thoughts (although mostly disappointments), after only playing around with it for about an hour in total:

The hip armour is just total BS. It is beyond a joke. They fall off at the slightest touch.

Knees cannot bend backwards with the super packs on, due to the rear-calf armour reaching too high up and restricting the range of the kneejoint.

I liked the tiny details on the missiles inside the shoulder packs.

The groin connection: This is my biggest problem with the toy. The tiny, tiny plug connecting the two halves of the toy together in Battroid mode is too weak to sustain the weight of the upper half, particularly when all the Super parts are on. So the whole thing just crumbles in half. It gets really, really repetitive and annoying.

I disliked a lot of the design of the toy from the beginning, but when I heard about how pleased everyone was due to its sturdiness, I thought I would give it a chance, and that since I had low expectations due to its looks, I may end up liking it for what it is: a playable, fun toy, which resembles the cartoon closely enough.

However, even that small expectation was dashed. I thought this toy was supposed to be fun to play with, but alas, it may just turn out to be just another display piece. Which means, yet again, I have to say the model kit serves all of these purposes much better, and is much more affordable.

It's still early days and my views still may change, but so far this thing to me like it has neither looks, durability, nor play-value. If it's gonna rest on a shelf, there's the super messiah kit which I have yet to build.

Oops looks like you got one with a lousy groin connector-- I hope Bandai solves this issue before the Armoured VF-25S (which will be even more top heavy) comes out!

Looks like the hip armour really needs some blu-tack or double sided tape then. What a disappointment. Also disappointing is the range of motion for the knees.

Oh well, I'm waiting for Alto's Super packs to be released so I can finally see what all the fuss is about for the super packs. It should be out by this week! (2 days left Bandai!)

[todd77]

I have the same problem on mine and it really does taint the whole toy because what fun is a battroid that can't hold together? I highly recommend using some clear nail polish or superglue (or some say Future Floor Polish) on the peg and trying that. It worked wonders on mine and it now holds together perfectly. I still hate that connection point though and think there has to be some way to do it better.

Did yours came out of the box like that or did it took some time for the thing to wear out? If the latter, how long?

[honkhet]

in my opinion,

yamato did a really good job with their latest 1/60 ver2 vf-1, and thats why its still selling amidst the frontier craze.

the sdf/DYRL animes are even 25++ years old.

if it was the other way round with yamato doing the 1/60 vf-25 and bandai doing the 1/60 vf-1,

bandai wouldnt stand half a chance to sell their vf-1.

however the 1/72 vf-25 model kit is so awesome, it feels like 2 different companies made the DX and the model kit.

[eriku]

Did yours came out of the box like that or did it took some time for the thing to wear out? If the latter, how long?

It held 'OK' out of the box. If I shook the toy a little it would dislodge, but it would at least hold together on display. After two or three thransformations it gave out completely, as I noticed one day when I looked at the shelf and the poor guy was doubled over bakward in a rather painful looking pose. I took the assembly apart to see if anything was cracked, broken, worn, put together wrong, but everything looked fine. Either the 'clip' part of the connector is too far apart or the peg is off just enough to not work.

One coat of nail polish fixed it perfectly.

Keep in mind this seems to be a somewhat uncommon problem as most people report their pegs hold perfectly. Uncommon or not, it still sucks and I hope my next one doesn't suffer from it.

[todd77]

It held 'OK' out of the box. If I shook the toy a little it would dislodge, but it would at least hold together on display. After two or three thransformations it gave out completely, as I noticed one day when I looked at the shelf and the poor guy was doubled over bakward in a rather painful looking pose. I took the assembly apart to see if anything was cracked, broken, worn, put together wrong, but everything looked fine. Either the 'clip' part of the connector is too far apart or the peg is off just enough to not work.

One coat of nail polish fixed it perfectly.

Keep in mind this seems to be a somewhat uncommon problem as most people report their pegs hold perfectly. Uncommon or not, it still sucks and I hope my next one doesn't suffer from it.

Thanks for the reply. I'll definitely pay special attention to that area when mine arrives.

[wintermute]

Hey folks-

This is actually my first post on these boards. I've been a fan of Macross for more than 20 years, but the only toy I've owned from any of the series was the old jetfire repaint of what I'm assuming is the "chunky". Reading this thread covinced me to order the 25G. Gotta love those blue valks....

[SuperDimensionalDave]

All 3 of mine lock in very well. I can see the potential of it wearing after many transformations though. Hope I'm wrong. You know the act of locking the groin together is pretty much the Valkyrie F'ing himself. My new Valks are hermaphrodites!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Negotiator]

There is a way to simply make the legs come up higher, like so...

Don't force the wing plate pegs to snap into the legs. This peg is what seems to prohibit the legs from going higher. If it were at a slight angle instead

of straight down, it would work better. You can still connect the legs and the wings together via the peg, but just don't push it in all the way.

The side effects are

slight gap in the knees and gun pod will touch the ground.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Negotiator

[eugimon]

Damn, looks great with your fix!

[Renato]

however the 1/72 vf-25 model kit is so awesome, it feels like 2 different companies made the DX and the model kit.

In a way, it was two companies. At least two totally separate groups of people, because they were two different divisions. I can't remember the names right now, but one was called the "boys' hobby division" or something and the other was the "Collector's division"... Something like that. Anyway, the staff is totally different for both.

Eriku -- Thanks, I will try the nail polish fix. Hope it turns out as well as yours.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Renato

[transfan52]

Wow I didn't expect so much backlash of complaints over the recent VF25G... These problems seem to be with the minority for now... Hopefully I won't run into the same problems when mine comes in.

I can understand why ppl would be upset at bandai over this oversight with the loose fitting armor parts but yamato's QC related issues were much worse from what I can recall...

The macross zero lineup had its fair share of worse problems than this with the infamous shoulder breakage and loose fitting parts. The first batch of the recent v2 1/60s had the arm breakage problem but ppl didn't seem as upset over it. Maybe yamato has a reputation of having alot of QC issues with their products and that's why no one is surprised when something does break.

Still I feel sorry for all of you who are having trouble with the toy atm... A company like bandai is known for their reliability on a product the first time so I can see why ppl are disappointed. Still overall im impressed at how durable the first releases were of the vf-25 despite the minor flaws. Hopefully bandai can learn from their mistakes and make a decent product the first time for everyone.

[eugimon]

Yeah, once I bought a bag of oranges at the farmer's market that were all dry and some even had some sort of rot on the inside. But wait, that doesn't have anything to do with the DX either.

[ff95gj]

Yamato gets their share of condemnation for those problems... There are dedicated threads for the problems, not just complaints in a discussion thread.

And then, yes, because it is Bandai, we expect more from them. It would not be the same if it is, say, CMS.

And also Bandai made the great looking models, which shows that the mecha design is totally feasible. I can only say that they don't care enough to do better, and so I am so disappointed.

Wow I didn't expect so much backlash of complaints over the recent VF25G... These problems seem to be with the minority for now... Hopefully I won't run into the same problems when mine comes in.

I can understand why ppl would be upset at bandai over this oversight with the loose fitting armor parts but yamato's QC related issues were much worse from what I can recall...

The macross zero lineup had its fair share of worse problems than this with the infamous shoulder breakage and loose fitting parts. The first batch of the recent v2 1/60s had the arm breakage problem but ppl didn't seem as upset over it. Maybe yamato has a reputation of having alot of QC issues with their products and that's why no one is surprised when something does break.

Still I feel sorry for all of you who are having trouble with the toy atm... A company like bandai is known for their reliability on a product the first time so I can see why ppl are disappointed. Still overall im impressed at how durable the first releases were of the vf-25 despite the minor flaws. Hopefully bandai can learn from their mistakes and make a decent product the first time for everyone.

[todd77]

There is a way to simply make the legs come up higher, like so...

Don't force the wing plate pegs to snap into the legs. This peg is what seems to prohibit the legs from going higher. If it were at a slight angle instead

of straight down, it would work better. You can still connect the legs and the wings together via the peg, but just don't push it in all the way.

The side effects are

slight gap in the knees and gun pod will touch the ground.

Will the legs hold though if the toy were to be put on a display stand?

[Renato]

Yamato gets their share of condemnation for those problems... There are dedicated threads for the problems, not just complaints in a discussion thread.

And then, yes, because it is Bandai, we expect more from them. It would not be the same if it is, say, CMS.

And also Bandai made the great looking models, which shows that the mecha design is totally feasible. I can only say that they don't care enough to do better, and so I am so disappointed.

Again, it is a totally different division making the kits to that making the toys.