Where to next?

[Ghost Train]

Given the current state of anime, the only areas of the universe that will be explored will be the realms of moe, imouto(s), and maidos.

Enter MACROSS-13: MAIDO COSPRAY CAFE

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Given the current state of anime, the only areas of the universe that will be explored will be the realms of moe, imouto(s), and maidos.

Enter MACROSS-13: MAIDO COSPRAY CAFE

Maybe they will design VF's that will transform into panties, and the main character can spend the series trying to get a girl with moveable hair to put him on...yeah, thats good anime!

[KEIR451]

What about going outside our Galaxy? How long do you think it'd take a fleet to reach the Andromeda Galaxy and what would happen to the people?

[sketchley]

Well, considering that it takes something like 10 to 20 years worth of space folds (not constant, mind you) to travel from Earth to "near the center of the galaxy", it'd take many hundreds of years. Perhaps thousands...

[KEIR451]

Well, considering that it takes something like 10 to 20 years worth of space folds (not constant, mind you) to travel from Earth to "near the center of the galaxy", it'd take many hundreds of years. Perhaps thousands...

How do you think that would affect the population? Heck can their fold comms even work in intergalactic space? Also (aside from Steelfalcon's site) is there any other reference to how fast Fold is (his site says 1LY/6min.)?

[TehPW]

If they ever do another serial, once they finish Vigorously thrusting upon the dead corpse of MF, if i was god & wanted to make $ as well as good story, i'd want to see more fleet vs fleet combat, where one group of humanity has returned to its base habits of prey & covetting another's possessions or resources. Basically a repeat of perhaps what ended the protoculture's rein of power. certainly very simular themes have been played out in Gundam, Battletech, even Star Wars & Star trek to more or less a fashion.

perhaps, as a nod to battletech, being that former friendly assets of the NUNS attack earth? and to see which colonies of earth take sides?

[Gubaba]

Also (aside from Steelfalcon's site) is there any other reference to how fast Fold is (his site says 1LY/6min.)?

It depends on how many Fold Faults are in the way.

[Seto Kaiba]

Heck can their fold comms even work in intergalactic space?

I don't see any reason why fold communications would be impeded by being outside the galaxy.

Also (aside from Steelfalcon's site) is there any other reference to how fast Fold is (his site says 1LY/6min.)?

Yes, if you're willing to work out the distance-over-time math on your own... I've no idea where they got that 1ly/6min equivalency, because as far as I know it has no basis in canon. Thanks to some helpful info from the Worldguide sheet for Eden in Macross Chronicle that establishes how long it takes to cover the 11.7 light year distance between Eden and Earth (18-24 hours) we can establish a mean fold velocity of approximately 4,884 times the speed of light. With the approximate differential between real time and experienced time stated by Misa in Super Dimension Fortress Macross, we can estimate that the crew would experience roughly 5 minutes and 15 seconds during the 21 hour fold jump.

(The velocity derived from distance over time has a pretty wide range, being as fast as 5,698c or as slow as 4,273c, in the interest of expediency, I'm just going to split it down the middle and use 21 hours)

What about going outside our Galaxy? How long do you think it'd take a fleet to reach the Andromeda Galaxy and what would happen to the people?

Using the above-noted mean velocity of 4,884c for conventional fold travel (11.7ly in 21 hours), it would take over 409 years (real time) of continuous fold travel to cover the 2 million light year distance to Andromeda. If that were done in one continuous fold (certainly impossible, due to the geometric progression of energy consumption) the crew would only experience about 1 year and 257 days as a result of the time differential... barring any fold faults or anything like that.

Realistically, they'd probably find it impossible without using a zero-time fold engine. It'd take months between jumps to charge the drive for ~1000ly increments, and probably take centuries to get there even if they had the fuel to pull it off.

If they DID use a zero-time fold engine to get there, it'd take the aforementioned ~1.7 years of continuous fold travel to get there.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

Thanks to some helpful info from the Worldguide sheet for Eden in Macross Chronicle that establishes how long it takes to cover the 11.7 light year distance between Eden and Earth (18-24 hours) we can establish a mean fold velocity of approximately 4,884 times the speed of light.

You forgot the part where it says "1 to 2 fold jumps". 1 jump is most likely 18 hours, and 2 jumps is most likely 24 hours.

With the approximate differential between real time and experienced time stated by Misa in Super Dimension Fortress Macross,

Don't forget that that statement comes from SDFM, created roughly 20 years before the MC clarification was released. The MC article on folds also adds some insight about perceived and actual fold times, and there isn't that large of a discrepancy between them.

How do you think that would affect the population?

Can you clarify your question? Population in an emigrant fleet? Population on Earth? ???

[Seto Kaiba]

You forgot the part where it says "1 to 2 fold jumps". 1 jump is most likely 18 hours, and 2 jumps is most likely 24 hours.

I didn't... I was trying to err on the side of caution with my estimate of speed.

Don't forget that that statement comes from SDFM, created roughly 20 years before the MC clarification was released. The MC article on folds also adds some insight about perceived and actual fold times, and there isn't that large of a discrepancy between them.

Huh... I'd just gone with the figure I had on hand at the time. I don't recall the Chronicle sheet being all that precise about the time differential between the real time and subjective time, though it has been a while since I reviewed it. I'll go back to check and, if necessary, redo my math.

EDIT: On re-examination, Macross Frontier's dialogue seems to posit a difference of 1:7 rather than 1:240, thought a change that significant doesn't make much sense. Gonna try to confirm with other sources...

EDIT #2: 'kay... it's confirmed, but the wording isn't exactly clear. Luca attributes the unusually long (7 day) travel time to a large fold fault, but it's unclear whether the fold fault is the reason for the longer subjective AND objective time, or a larger disparity between the two... can you shed any light on this sketchley? Either way, the distance elapsed over objective time hasn't changed, so the drive speed math ought to be sound... it's just the subjective time estimates that need to be recalibrated (possibly).

Edited December 23, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

I didn't... I was trying to err on the side of caution with my estimate of speed.

... Either way, the distance elapsed over objective time hasn't changed, so the drive speed math ought to be sound...

Leaving out indication that there is down time between folds, is a glaring omission. In short, it implies that the technology has greater abilities than indicated.

In all likelihood, distance travelled per time unit is probably higher. However, not withstanding fold dislocations [faults, whatever], down time between folds has been consistently portrayed in the anime (insert speculative reason of choice here) and the total distance traversable in one jump is limited (already mentioned by another in the thread).

So, KEIR451, perhaps what I'm trying to say is that the figure Seto is giving is a "best guess in optimum circumstances for short distances". Travel between galaxies will be at a wildly different rate, and is most likely not possible; because of one important factor: lack of new resources to be acquired en route (call it need for fuel, or simply need for new building materials).

can you shed any light on this sketchley?

Nope. 'twas just pointing out that there is a change and that if the revised source is used, all of the revision has to be used.

it's just the subjective time estimates that need to be recalibrated (possibly).

If it includes the caveat indicated in this post, then yes, agreed.

Edited December 23, 2010 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

Leaving out indication that there is down time between folds, is a glaring omission. In short, it implies that the technology has greater abilities than indicated.

True... I suppose it would probably be safer to err towards the higher of the estimates to approximate covering that distance in a single fold jump rather than two with downtime in the middle. Still, an approximation is a nice thing to have...

However, not withstanding fold dislocations [faults, whatever], down time between folds has been consistently portrayed in the anime (insert speculative reason of choice here) and the total distance traversable in one jump is limited (already mentioned by another in the thread).

True again... 's why I cited increments of ~1000ly for a long-distance trip, since that's the longest known (planned but not executed) fold jump explicitly mentioned in Macross. They were charging up for a substantial period of time just to fold the Frontier that distance... I doubt that any ship could store the necessary amounts of energy to fold tens or hundreds of thousands of light years in a single jump.

Nope. 'twas just pointing out that there is a change and that if the revised source is used, all of the revision has to be used.

Huh... oh well. On reflection, the 1:7 figure cited by Luca makes a good deal more sense in the context of his later description of the fold booster as making the galaxy "a tenth" the size it once was. 's still not a bad setup, that'd make the trip from Earth to Eden about two and a half hours subjective, not much different from a bog standard commuter flight. When you can think about it like that, it really gives you a feel for the scale of the thing...

Thanks for pointing that out, I completely missed that somehow.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

On reflection, the 1:7 figure cited by Luca makes a good deal more sense in the context of his later description of the fold booster as making the galaxy "a tenth" the size it once was.

Careful. Now your confusing the standard fighter sized external Fold Booster with the Super Fold Booster (that uses Fold Quartz) introduced in Macross F.

[Seto Kaiba]

Careful. Now your confusing the standard fighter sized external Fold Booster with the Super Fold Booster (that uses Fold Quartz) introduced in Macross F.

No, I'm not... remember, the super fold booster's main improvement (aside from being able to pass through fold faults) is that it eliminates the disparity between subjective time and objective time. If the time displacement for conventional fold travel was the old 1:240, "a tenth" would have been a dramatic understatement. Luca wasn't talking about a super fold booster when he described the difference between subjective and objective time as a rough 1:7 when he was describing travelling to Gallia IV, he was talking about getting there by conventional fold travel. (and, in the context of Leon's later remarks in that same episode, it would seem the overall travel time in subjective and objective terms is overlong because of the fault surface, not one or the other)

[sketchley]

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg35077#msg35077

Super Fold Booster

Experimental Super Fold Booster that is able to penetrate fold dislocations [faults] by using fold quartz. (With it) there is no difference in the subjectivity and objectivity of time (spent in fold), and it is said that the travel time in the area of space that had been put to use (by mankind) was reduced to a tenth. It is an L.A.I. test piece [trial manufacture, experiment, prototype].

Edited December 23, 2010 by sketchley

[TehPW]

Sketchley was Brainy smurf in a pastlife... or

(with his own rap music theme by Ice Cube) if this was Counter Strike... still im hella smarter because of both of you...

[BeyondTheGrave]

Space pirates that were formerly NUNS forces lead by a female captain...

[Alex SDU]

Story about a Galaxy Patrol fleet, GP-13, with background where many human colonies and colony fleets declare independence and form a pact, and I called it, the Colonial Confederation.

War haven't start yet, between UN Spacy and the ConFed, but the tension is high, similar to Cuban Crisis. When war break loose, it gonna be in a neutral star system, which allied with the UN Spacy. And the battles gonna be like Korean(2 factions, backed by UNS and ConFed) and Vietnam War(heavy usage of troops dropships).

This time there gonna be more battles between fleets, slugging each other at close range, and ground battles as well where the UN Space Marines gonna have more screen time than the VF pilots.

As for the singging, there's gonna be USO-type performing team, entertaining the troops on the ground and in the fleet. But they just a background. This time the songs not gonna be one of the major factors in the story.

Love story - between a Special Force pilot, an female aircraft carrier captain(not the flagship, but one of those many carriers in that mentioned Galaxy Patrol), and his squadron leader.

Later, at the half of the season, the war spread wider, which we will see attack and invasion on UNS and Confed's territories.

And this time the Kite(UNS logo) gonna make a comeback. Personally I don't like the NUNS' logo in Macross F. Infact I believe that the Frontier government is an autonomous government, since they got their own president, unlike Macross 7 which clearly still under UNS control.

So...what do you think?

[Gubaba]

So...what do you think?

Sounds very "Un-Macross" to me...

[frothymug]

Yes, it's different. Seems like a decent story, but as Gubaba said, it'd be a lot different than we're used to. Doesn't mean it can't work, though. Macross has a winning formula, but it can't stay the same forever.

[Gubaba]

Yes, it's different. Seems like a decent story, but as Gubaba said, it'd be a lot different than we're used to. Doesn't mean it can't work, though. Macross has a winning formula, but it can't stay the same forever.

But let's look at the realities of the situation...where does Macross make most of its money these days? CD and figure sales.

If music is sidelined, CD sales suffer. If the love story is sidelined, figure sales suffer.

Hence, no profit.

EDIT: But I *do* think it's interesting that whenever a "fan" here comes up with a sequel plot, they usually choose to de-emphasize the music and the love triangles... no one ever chooses to de-emphasize the mecha.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Gubaba

[anime52k8]

Macross fans don't love Macross, they love the idea of Macross.

[Mommar]

But let's look at the realities of the situation...where does Macross make most of its money these days? CD and figure sales.

If music is sidelined, CD sales suffer. If the love story is sidelined, figure sales suffer.

Hence, no profit.

EDIT: But I *do* think it's interesting that whenever a "fan" here comes up with a sequel plot, they usually choose to de-emphasize the music and the love triangles... no one ever chooses to de-emphasize the mecha.

Actually, he chose to de-emphasize the Valks. Which is at least mildly different.

[VF5SS]

Everyone wants VF-X2 the show

[Alex SDU]

Everyone wants VF-X2 the show

I second on that motion.

[VF5SS]

How many people here have actually played VF-X2

[TheLoneWolf]

If VF-X2 were ever expanded into a TV series, I think a more appropriate title for it would be "Gundam."

[Alex SDU]

How many people here have actually played VF-X2

*Hand raised* Uuh! Uuh! Me1 Me! But only in first mission. And couldn't finished it.

Don't blame me. I'm more of a PC person, not some console junkies. Plus I played it at some videogame store.

Totally loved the Intro.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Alex SDU

[VF5SS]

There's a way you can play such a game

on the PC

so you can enjoy the scenes in between of Aegis Fokker sitting in his underwear

and then burly Captain Gilliam behind him

[Keith]

VFX-2 would work better as an OVA than a series, 4 episodes would be enough to expand on the characters there and still pack in plenty of Koenig Monster goodness.

[sketchley]

*Hand raised* Uuh! Uuh! Me1 Me! But only in first mission. And couldn't finished it.

Don't blame me. I'm more of a PC person, not some console junkies. Plus I played it at some videogame store.

Totally loved the Intro.

Tip for the first mission: spam the Ghost with micro-missiles (save them until it appears). Otherwise, do your best to keep away from its missiles until it starts to run low, and then make a concerted effort to defeat it.

[Alex SDU]

There's a way you can play such a game

on the PC

Through emulator, I presume?

so you can enjoy the scenes in between of Aegis Fokker sitting in his underwear

and then burly Captain Gilliam behind him

Huh?! Where's that?

The only video I managed to see was the "Get Free!" Intro.

Tip for the first mission: spam the Ghost with micro-missiles (save them until it appears). Otherwise, do your best to keep away from its missiles until it starts to run low, and then make a concerted effort to defeat it.

Thanks, mate. I'll try that, when I can found the game again.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Alex SDU

[VF5SS]

welcome to the life of Aegis Focker

[Alex SDU]

Wait...did he...they.... No way!

On a side note, is that a hair drier (green color), next to the sink?

Edited May 25, 2012 by Alex SDU

[VF5SS]

Yes it's a very spacy hair dryer

Aegis has to look his best

so he can go shopping with one of the girls and almost drop everything because she bought too much because she's a woman

This happens in like every Japanese thing ever