Where to next?

[RedWolf]

We've been to Solar system, Eden, the old stomping grounds of the Protoculture the center region of the galaxy.

Where to next?

The other spiral arms of the galaxy? The rim? Where space pirates, smugglers and mafia make their buck.

Planet bound or space colony bound?

[VFTF1]

I think we need to find out what happened to Megaroa---aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!

(beaten to death by MW members)

Pete

[talonlm]

The other spiral arms of the galaxy? The rim? Where space pirates, smugglers and mafia make their buck.

Planet bound or space colony bound?

Aren't there supposed to be thousnads of fleets of Zentraedi and Meltrandi left in the galaxy? Why have we seen so little of them? (Save for Maccross II, which I, too, cringe at mentioning!)

Still, I think it would be interesting to see a little more of them and their interactions with each other and the human colonization fleets.

[The Saint]

It doesn't seem like OverTech FTL sensor has that great a range. Human might have travelled considerable distances, but the actual volume of directly studied space remain microscopic.

[VFTF1]

Well - I personally would be interested in going back to Earth and exploring what is going on there. Frankly, we've gotten two entire series dedicated to colonization fleets - and the "fleet goes through space/meets aliens" format is going to start wearing thin.

On the other hand, beyond Macross Plus, which is very limited in its' focus and length, we haven't seen what's going on on Earth.

A story about Earth would be interesting. No aliens (beyond Zendradi) and more mundane plots (like Macross plus). Some mystery/noir elements...

And something about unfulfilled love and dreams...

I dunno... hard to fathom really.

Very hard to fathom...

Either that or go all out - have the Protoculture finally show up and meet a colony fleet.

Pete

[Dynaman]

A story about Earth would be interesting. No aliens (beyond Zendradi) and more mundane plots (like Macross plus). Some mystery/noir elements...

Quite a few possabilities there. With all the best and brightest (I assume) heading out on the colonization fleets the people left behind could be rather bitter - resentful of all the resources being plowed into colonization rather then rebuilding.

[sketchley]

The Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy.

Next best place to look for Protoculture that may have fled from the Milky Way Galaxy.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/galaxy.html

[The Saint]

Quite a few possabilities there. With all the best and brightest (I assume) heading out on the colonization fleets the people left behind could be rather bitter - resentful of all the resources being plowed into colonization rather then rebuilding.

Bitter about what?

Since we have no idea exactly how many people survived on Earth's surface post Space War I, we have no idea just how many people are "left behind" on Earth (or any other colonized planets). For all we know, there could be more people in space than on the planets, considering how big Frontier was and how many colonization and combat fleets are roaming about.

Looking at M7 and MF demographics, it's not even like they're particularly choosy about who goes with the colonies. Any resentment resulting from an absence of actual discrimination on the part of the colonization selection process is just a bunch of people inanely whining about how their lives would be better if they had the courage to emigrate to a colonization fleet.

Not everyone would want to join one of these fleets either. They're not exactly safe havens. At least you can build Grand Cannons on planets and your atmosphere isn't a privilege.

Personally, I find the idea of any story based on resentment of being left behind to not reflect the spirit of the Macross series.

[zeus the zentran]

Quite a few possabilities there. With all the best and brightest (I assume) heading out on the colonization fleets the people left behind could be rather bitter - resentful of all the resources being plowed into colonization rather then rebuilding.

[RogueTrooper]

A story set on Earth or another colony would be nice to see, past or future.

With the UN spacy being cool again and the emblem everywhere.

No new race of alien would be nice but the supervision army would be awesome.

[Dynaman]

Bitter about what?

Personally, I find the idea of any story based on resentment of being left behind to not reflect the spirit of the Macross series.

I thought the second half of sentence said what they would be bitter about.

As for Humans having left their emotional frailties behind - Frontier and Plus certainly shows they have not. (I'm only leaving 7 out since I didn't pay much attention to it...)

[eugimon]

I thought the second half of sentence said what they would be bitter about.

As for Humans having left their emotional frailties behind - Frontier and Plus certainly shows they have not. (I'm only leaving 7 out since I didn't pay much attention to it...)

rising above the baser emotions like bitterness and jealousy is a theme in macross, imo.

[taksraven]

rising above the baser emotions like bitterness and jealousy is a theme in macross, imo.

There was a "future of Macross" thread somewhere else here, in that I suggested the idea of a lone human working as part of a Zentradi fleet. Might be interesting, but even if the lone human was using a valk the focus would not be on valks.

I still say that humans encountering Protoculture would be a fantastic idea.

Taksraven

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, considering the Frontier holds more people than survived SWI, I'd say humanity has recolonized and rebuilt well in the last 50 years. On that note, looking at Macross city, and how it looks a lot better than most cities today, I'd assume they've rebuilt what they can. The rest is crater-marred desert.

And it makes sense to launch colony fleets. If there's another mass-extinction event, we're not screwed, because we're so scattered.

Moving on, I'd like to see something on Earth or Eden. Perhaps a return to the 7 Fleet

Perhaps a colonized planet named Sera where the main characters are attacked by the native species of humanoids that live underground, after the Humans of Sera were embroiled in their own, long war. Anyone who names the reference gets a point.

[Dynaman]

rising above the baser emotions like bitterness and jealousy is a theme in macross, imo.

It sure is. but a great many people in the franchise don't manage to do so, Grace and Leon rising right to the top of the list. So the idea that some power made and bitter people are left on Earth is not what I would consider far fetched.

[eugimon]

It sure is. but a great many people in the franchise don't manage to do so, Grace and Leon rising right to the top of the list. So the idea that some power made and bitter people are left on Earth is not what I would consider far fetched.

yeah, I was agreeing with you. That the idea would work well cuz the basic theme is very macross.

[taksraven]

Well, considering the Frontier holds more people than survived SWI, I'd say humanity has recolonized and rebuilt well in the last 50 years. On that note, looking at Macross city, and how it looks a lot better than most cities today, I'd assume they've rebuilt what they can. The rest is crater-marred desert.

And it makes sense to launch colony fleets. If there's another mass-extinction event, we're not screwed, because we're so scattered.

Moving on, I'd like to see something on Earth or Eden. Perhaps a return to the 7 Fleet

Perhaps a colonized planet named Sera where the main characters are attacked by the native species of humanoids that live underground, after the Humans of Sera were embroiled in their own, long war. Anyone who names the reference gets a point.

Dr Who and the Silurians?? :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_and_the_Silurians

Taksraven

[Dynaman]

yeah, I was agreeing with you. That the idea would work well cuz the basic theme is very macross.

Pardon me, I read your response all wrong, my apologies.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Dr Who and the Silurians?? :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_and_the_Silurians

Taksraven

NO! Good try, though.

Anyone?

[The Saint]

It sure is. but a great many people in the franchise don't manage to do so, Grace and Leon rising right to the top of the list. So the idea that some power made and bitter people are left on Earth is not what I would consider far fetched.

And you haven't really explained how people "left" on Earth could feel legitimately dis-enfranchised without appearing like a bunch of whiners. As I've said, it doesn't seem like the colonization fleets were very discriminating about who they took. Without actual systematic discrimination of who goes and who stays, and without a clear indication that planet-side life is somehow lesser than space colony-life, neither side can legitimately claim to be better off than the other.

Space War I basically hit the reset button for humanity, literally leveling much of the social problems created by centuries of cultural baggage, demographic distortions and unequal distribution of resource problems by bombing everyone back to the stone age. The positive rebound of humanity (in part thanks to OverTech) along with integration of the Zentradi post SW-I reflect the spirit of Macross, not a bunch of people discontent who think they've been shortchanged because they stayed home.

There is no shame in staying home.

[blobness]

Sciz, thats the second gears of war reference in a week. I take you're in the middle of a playthrough?

I second the Human on Zentradi fleet idea. I've always wondered how far the integration went.

[eugimon]

And you haven't really explained how people "left" on Earth could feel legitimately dis-enfranchised without appearing like a bunch of whiners. As I've said, it doesn't seem like the colonization fleets were very discriminating about who they took. Without actual systematic discrimination of who goes and who stays, and without a clear indication that planet-side life is somehow lesser than space colony-life, neither side can legitimately claim to be better off than the other.

Space War I basically hit the reset button for humanity, literally leveling much of the social problems created by centuries of cultural baggage, demographic distortions and unequal distribution of resource problems by bombing everyone back to the stone age. The positive rebound of humanity (in part thanks to OverTech) along with integration of the Zentradi post SW-I reflect the spirit of Macross, not a bunch of people discontent who think they've been shortchanged because they stayed home.

There is no shame in staying home.

I think that's the whole point of telling a story based on Earth. Maybe some people rightly or wrongly blame the turning of earth into a giant wasteland on humanity reaching for the stars. If they hadn't rebuilt the ASS-1, then the booby trap never would have fired and the zentradi wouldn't have bothered with a dirt poor, back water planet. So maybe it's a bunch of xenophobes who want to turtle up and not send the best and brightest out into space? (I'm not saying this is the "right" view so please don't start a debate as to whether the booby trap would have fired anyways or if the zents would have slagged the earth anyways, that's not the point)

Maybe it's a bunch of environmentalists who are pissed that the government creates mini worlds and sends them off to who-know-where while the earth's environment is still a giant desert?

Maybe it's a bunch of religious types who refused to get cloned and who are angry that their religion isn't able to spread across the stars as a result.

Maybe the Mayans or the Anti-UN are still pissed about what happened before Space War.

There's plenty of stories to explore that can take place on earth.

[badboy00z]

The Gundam approach: Earth VS Space colonies complete with a Macross drop on Earth. Lol.

[The Saint]

The Gundam approach: Earth VS Space colonies complete with a Macross drop on Earth. Lol.

Pretty much, rehash Gundam story lines with veritechs. At least Char won't be such a weird name for a Zentradi.

[Dynaman]

And you haven't really explained how people "left" on Earth could feel legitimately dis-enfranchised without appearing like a bunch of whiners. As I've said, it doesn't seem like the colonization fleets were very discriminating about who they took. Without actual systematic discrimination of who goes and who stays, and without a clear indication that planet-side life is somehow lesser than space colony-life, neither side can legitimately claim to be better off than the other.

Every idea has two sides, at least, arguing the merits. There have been 55 (?) emigration fleets, setting out in massive vessels that would take a very large portion of the Earth's remaining resources to build. Some (not all, not the majority, but a significant minority) would be arguing against such a plan. So, does it seem impossible that such a situation could occur?

[The Saint]

I think that if scarce resources was that big an issue, the fleets never would've been built in the first place. With so preciously few people left, if they couldn't be fed and sheltered day-to-day, you're not going to get them to build any fleet. There's no long-term survival without immediate survival.

Considering how quickly the humans were rebuilding, I think that OverTech (and that factory satellite they stole) provided the necessary force multiplier for manufacturing, combined with the reduction in competition (6 billion less) for Earth raw material, made any scarcity issue by the time of MF unlikely. It'd make more sense to do a scarcity scenario immediately post Space War-I, though it seems the scarcity of anything didn't last for more than a couple years on screen.

Remember that it's easier to maintain a higher standard on living on a planet than a colony. Being a largely closed system, a colony fleet has to be extreme frugal. I bet people on Earth don't have to recycle human bodies to keep their resource scale balanced.

And MF would seem to support the idea that colonization is heavily about making it as a colony and depending on the planet-side NUN government. If Earth was stretched that thin sending out the fleets, the Frontier government wouldn't have regarded it as a central authority and effective projector of military power.

Personally, I'm not interested in watching a bunch of people who simply thinks Fortress Earth would work out better than scattering humanity around the universe. That's a philosophical, maybe strategic difference of opinion. As an actual graduate of that general area of study, it's a lot more interesting to discuss at an academic level than watch the uninformed public be discontent about.

[sketchley]

Every idea has two sides, at least, arguing the merits. There have been 55 (?) emigration fleets, setting out in massive vessels that would take a very large portion of the Earth's remaining resources to build. Some (not all, not the majority, but a significant minority) would be arguing against such a plan. So, does it seem impossible that such a situation could occur?

One should keep in mind that the seeding program has been going on for 47 years by the time Macross F begins. I'm not disagreeing that there may have been a minority who voiced against the plan, but after 47 years? That's two, possibly 3 or more generations (taking cloning into consideration) that have grown up with the seeding plan as fact. (Consider it somewhat akin to man having walked on the moon.)

On the other hand, one should also take into consideration the people who survived SWI. They were, most likely than not, members of the UN Spacy, who are already inclined towards travelling, exploring and perhaps even colonizing space. Perhaps only the civilians who were brought along inside of the SDF-1 were not inclined - but even then, they have first-hand knowledge that humans can live in space.

Couple that with the irradiated surface of the Earth (even after 40+ years, the majority of it is still a wasteland; most likely despite the best efforts of mankind and OTEC technological advances) and I see an overwhelming support for the seeding plan - Earth has been destroyed, and it'll probably take centuries for it to even begin to recover. Why not hop a ride on the next emigration fleet to a blue-green world? Heck, even the average Megaroad-01 colony ship has more green space than what we've seen on Earth in the post Flashback 2012 Macross productions.

[Raven21]

Earth has been destroyed, and it'll probably take centuries for it to even begin to recover.

" All the king's horses and all the king's men Couldn't put Humpty together again."

-In this case,humpty dumpty referring to earth.

But the thing is, how do people live in those times and not harbor at least some level of hate for the zentreadi?

I mean,call me dumb and say that i'm wrong, but,you gotta the zentreadi were responsible for putting earth in

the condition it's in., I mean,you did have max and millia...

Man,SWI was just a tragedy all around,wasn't it?

But anyway,

There are 55 long-range emigration fleets,right?

'You think there gonna make a 56th fleet?

Just wondering.

[RedWolf]

" All the king's horses and all the king's men Couldn't put Humpty together again."

-In this case,humpty dumpty referring to earth.

But the thing is, how do people live in those times and not harbor at least some level of hate for the zentreadi?

As Leon pointed out to Pres. Glass it isn't PC to curse Zentradi. (Macross Frontier)

We see this PC attitude in General Gomez, sponsor of the X-9 Ghost. (Macross Plus)

He believes so much humans and Zentradi should not be fighting each other much less fighting at all. Thus unmaned fighters like Ghosts as a mainine fighter.

City 7 doesn't mind its mayor is a Zentradi. Thugh the fact she is Meltran may explain the 90 percentile vote. (Macross 7)

Macriss Plus OVA episode one detailed the problems of the day. Terrorism and colony disputes. I take it as from both Humans and Zentradi. Probably enough that guys like Loschier and Critical Path corporation make a dishonest buck out of it.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Sciz, thats the second gears of war reference in a week. I take you're in the middle of a playthrough?

I second the Human on Zentradi fleet idea. I've always wondered how far the integration went.

POINT! And, I'm not in the middle of a playthrough. I just like Gears...

I think that's the whole point of telling a story based on Earth. Maybe some people rightly or wrongly blame the turning of earth into a giant wasteland on humanity reaching for the stars. If they hadn't rebuilt the ASS-1, then the booby trap never would have fired and the zentradi wouldn't have bothered with a dirt poor, back water planet. So maybe it's a bunch of xenophobes who want to turtle up and not send the best and brightest out into space? (I'm not saying this is the "right" view so please don't start a debate as to whether the booby trap would have fired anyways or if the zents would have slagged the earth anyways, that's not the point)

Maybe it's a bunch of environmentalists who are pissed that the government creates mini worlds and sends them off to who-know-where while the earth's environment is still a giant desert?

Maybe it's a bunch of religious types who refused to get cloned and who are angry that their religion isn't able to spread across the stars as a result.

Maybe the Mayans or the Anti-UN are still pissed about what happened before Space War.

There's plenty of stories to explore that can take place on earth.

Once again, Eugimon makes a point.

Pretty much, rehash Gundam story lines with veritechs. At least Char won't be such a weird name for a Zentradi.

GASP! HE SAID A BAD WORD! Veritech is not a good word to say on this board. From now on, call them VFs, Variable Fighters, or, somewhat erroneously, Valkyries. Most people here, myself not included, don't take kindly to Robotech.

On that note, I refuse to believe Macross could get Gundam'd...

[Gubaba]

From now on, call them VFs, Variable Fighters, or, somewhat erroneously, Valkyries.

Why is "Valkyrie" erroneous?

[eugimon]

...

Couple that with the irradiated surface of the Earth (even after 40+ years, the majority of it is still a wasteland; most likely despite the best efforts of mankind and OTEC technological advances) and I see an overwhelming support for the seeding plan - Earth has been destroyed, and it'll probably take centuries for it to even begin to recover. Why not hop a ride on the next emigration fleet to a blue-green world? Heck, even the average Megaroad-01 colony ship has more green space than what we've seen on Earth in the post Flashback 2012 Macross productions.

Do the zents beam weapons leave radiation? In SDFM we see people walking around freely in the wastelands without and Hikaru finds flowers growing.

The real world example of the bikini islands shows that nature actually bounces back relatively quickly from radiation (never mind you can't eat the coconuts because of large amounts of selenium) and we know from fruit flies and other animals that changes due to the genetic code from radiation don't breed true and that their DNA repairs itself within a handful of generations.

I actually think that the earth is still a wasteland is unrealistic.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Why is "Valkyrie" erroneous?

Because not every VF is titled Valkyrie.

Only the VF-1 Valkyrie is a Valkyrie.

The VF-4 is not the VF-4 Valkyrie and the VF-17 isn't the VF-17 Valkyrie...

That's why.

[eugimon]

Because not every VF is titled Valkyrie.

Only the VF-1 Valkyrie is a Valkyrie.

The VF-4 is not the VF-4 Valkyrie and the VF-17 isn't the VF-17 Valkyrie...

That's why.

yes and no, every VF gets called a "valkyrie", it's the generic term for them whether or not an individual fighter's designation is "valkyrie". Kind of like "kleenex" and "xerox". There's examples of this in every single macross sequel, people referring to VFs as "valkyrie"

[Gubaba]

Because not every VF is titled Valkyrie.

Only the VF-1 Valkyrie is a Valkyrie.

The VF-4 is not the VF-4 Valkyrie and the VF-17 isn't the VF-17 Valkyrie...

That's why.

Eugimon's exactly right. "Valkyrie" is a blanket term referring to any VF, and it's used as such in almost every Macross series.