Gubaba Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Did the Anti-UN give up after the events in zero and become the UN's bitch? Possibly, but the attack on Mars Base happened BEFORE that. Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Did the Anti-UN give up after the events in zero and become the UN's bitch? Within 6 months, yes. Remember that the war was over before the SDF-1 launch. Quote
sketchley Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 You guys have read the Compendium, right? http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Category:Chronology http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2000 - start of the UN Wars (July) http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2005 - Anti-UN hijack the 3rd Oberth Space Destroyer, and use it to destroy the returning fleet from Mars Base SARA (no reason why the Harry Miler wanted to withdrawal). http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2007 - Conclusion of the UN Wars (in January) http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2008 - Macross Zero Quote
Gubaba Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 You guys have read the Compendium, right? http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Category:Chronology http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2000 - start of the UN Wars (July) http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2005 - Anti-UN hijack the 3rd Oberth Space Destroyer, and use it to destroy the returning fleet from Mars Base SARA (no reason why the Harry Miler wanted to withdrawal). http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2007 - Conclusion of the UN Wars (in January) http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2008 - Macross Zero I wonder why the Macross Chronicle Timeline mentions nothing about Salla getting attacked? Quote
sketchley Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I wonder why the Macross Chronicle Timeline mentions nothing about Salla getting attacked? Because it doesn't. The UN abandons the base*. The return fleet is destroyed somewhere between Mars orbit and Earth orbit. *Speculation: to consolidate resources around Earth/they had a budget shortfall? Quote
Gubaba Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Because it doesn't. The UN abandons the base*. The return fleet is destroyed somewhere between Mars orbit and Earth orbit. *Speculation: to consolidate resources around Earth/they had a budget shortfall? D'oh! I suck. Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 So, essentially, Sara wasn't attacked, its residents were on the way home... Wow... Sucks for Riber... Quote
Keith Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 There's no indicatin that the Zentradi ever ran into the Vajra, and even if htey had, the Zentradi would have been pretty sufficiantly owned. The greatest mystery about the Vajra would be their natural space flight & combat technology. Did they come by it before or after the Protoculture found them, the indication that Frontier gave being that the Protoculture based everything "they" had on the Vajra. Problem with that being, just who would the Vajra been fighting that they'd need such heavy arms, or was it simply something developed in retaliation to conflicts with the Protoculture. I guess what I'm asking, which adapted which's technology. Was what to do with/how to interact with the Vajra the source of the Protocutlure Civil War? Was higher end bio-tech like the EVIL & AFOS comparably powered with the Vajra? Quote
Morpheus Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Since the Protoculture positioned Vajra as Gods, then it would logical if they place a 'avoid Vajra' protocol into the mind of Zentraedi, so that explain why Zentraedi never encountered a Vajra. Protoculture War started by the EVIL series who got invaded/infected by multidimensional Protodevlin (probably the same dimension from the Vajra?). Quote
Keith Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Since the Protoculture positioned Vajra as Gods, then it would logical if they place a 'avoid Vajra' protocol into the mind of Zentraedi, so that explain why Zentraedi never encountered a Vajra. Protoculture War started by the EVIL series who got invaded/infected by multidimensional Protodevlin (probably the same dimension from the Vajra?). Nope, the "Protodevelin" war was started when the EVIL got possessed. The EVIL themselves were a result of pre-existing Protoculture Civil war, being an advanced form of Zentradi. Also doubtful that the Vajra & Protodevelin are from the same place. Quote
VF-25 Messiah Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Nope, the "Protodevelin" war was started when the EVIL got possessed. The EVIL themselves were a result of pre-existing Protoculture Civil war, being an advanced form of Zentradi. Also doubtful that the Vajra & Protodevelin are from the same place. Vajra are from a different galaxy, and the protodeviln were from a different dimension alltogether, right? Ie not the same. Quote
sketchley Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 If that were the case, they'd have just dropped out of fold. Erm... not necessarily. The fold field around them that transports our dimension into the Super dimension may simply dissapate, exposing them to the physics of the Super dimension. Quote
Morpheus Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Vajra are from a different galaxy, and the protodeviln were from a different dimension alltogether, right? Ie not the same. Isn't Vajra a super dimensional life form? That's why they could fold within fold dislocation. If it is, then both species are extra-dimensional alien. Quote
Master Dex Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Different dimensions is a term thrown around in science fiction an awful lot that is so often used incorrectly... in this case though it isn't that bad especially since they don't really elaborate on what they mean by 'came from a different dimension' at all. In most cased in SF if it is said that something came from an alternate dimension they mean like another realm, plain of existence, or even possibly an alternate universe. Since the scientific definition of dimension means something different than these it makes no sense to use the word... However dimension is just such a good word for that and it sounds right so it is used often to mean other things, so it really is not a bad thing, just gets confused especially when you know what it really means to say alternate dimension. In the case of Macross I'd say the Protodeviln are from an alternate realm or plain of existence as the term is used to describe. As for the Vajra, I don't remember them saying they were from a different dimension, so I assume they just lived in this galaxy too and we never noticed them before... they could be extragalactic though, I don't remember hearing that but their fold capability is pretty good, they could cross those distances well enough I bet. In the case of calling Vajra Super Dimensional Life Forms, that just means they are capable of fold travel I bet since folds utilize extra dimensions (in the correct sense of the word... well as correct as you can get with FTL) to travel at superluminal speeds. Much like how the Macross could travel by fold, therefor it is a Super Dimensional Fortress. Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Isn't that what everyone's been saying, Dex? Vajra = Intergalactic(?) lifeform capable of folding (Which uses a separate dimension to disobey this one's law no superluminality for FTL) PD = Lifeform from a separate dimension (With the meaning being the same as 1D, 2D, 3D, and Time.) I dunno... My give up. Quote
Master Dex Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Isn't that what everyone's been saying, Dex? Vajra = Intergalactic(?) lifeform capable of folding (Which uses a separate dimension to disobey this one's law no superluminality for FTL) PD = Lifeform from a separate dimension (With the meaning being the same as 1D, 2D, 3D, and Time.) I dunno... My give up. Actually I was taking the PD from another dimension as meaning another realm or such, not the standard definition of dimension that you listed (that being the whole 1D, 2D, etc. one). Other than that I don't know much more than you, I can't tell what anyone is trying to say anymore.. just offering my insight and two cents. Perhaps I should just offer up $1.05 and buy my freedom from the whole confusion, heheh . Edited February 16, 2009 by Master Dex Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Actually I was taking the PD from another dimension as meaning another realm or such, not the standard definition of dimension that you listed (that being the whole 1D, 2D, etc. one). Other than that I don't know much more than you, I can't tell what anyone is trying to say anymore.. just offering my insight and two cents. Perhaps I should just offer up $1.05 and buy my freedom from the whole confusion, heheh . Well, you've a 2 cent deposit. Would you like to pay the remaining $1.03 now? Quote
Master Dex Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Well, you've a 2 cent deposit. Would you like to pay the remaining $1.03 now? I'm not sure if you got the reference or not, nonetheless I think I'll wait for the opportune moment. Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Hey, Dex, I probably don't get the reference, but I'm near-certain if you told me what it was, I'd facepalm and curse myself. Also, your sig... True engineering... Words to live by. On that note, The Pessimist says the glass is half empty The Optimist says it's half full The Engineer says it's twice as big as it needs to be, curses the designer, and walks off to his drawing board Quote
Master Dex Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Very nice, I've heard the glass one before, I have a list of a bunch of engineering an science jokes. Also I can pretty much assure that you would face palm if I told you the reference, but it is a funny one. Yeah, as for the quote, it really did come to me just as I was waking up once (I don't remember much of my actual dreams so that counts as coming to me in a dream there) and I didn't want to let that go because it sounded perfect. I am an aerospace engineering student by the way (focusing on astronautical engineering, spacecraft that is). Can you guess what got me interested in Macross? Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Very nice, I've heard the glass one before, I have a list of a bunch of engineering an science jokes. Also I can pretty much assure that you would face palm if I told you the reference, but it is a funny one. Yeah, as for the quote, it really did come to me just as I was waking up once (I don't remember much of my actual dreams so that counts as coming to me in a dream there) and I didn't want to let that go because it sounded perfect. I am an aerospace engineering student by the way (focusing on astronautical engineering, spacecraft that is). Can you guess what got me interested in Macross? I can say the inverse is true for me. Macross (among other things, like living under an airport for the first few years of my life and my dad being an A/S nut and Robotechie) got me into Aerospace engineering. It is my dream to invent the first, real, fully operable, military-approved Variable Fighter. Being that the technology, at its roots, isn't very far off, I'd say it'd be a GREAT life's work, wouldn't you? I'm an A/S Engineering student (as far as one can be in High School, that is) myself, and plan on attending ERAU, Daytona Beach in a few years. I'm somewhat sad I must end this, but we're getting OT. Shall we continue via PM? Quote
westfall Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Hey, Dex, I probably don't get the reference, but I'm near-certain if you told me what it was, I'd facepalm and curse myself. Also, your sig... True engineering... Words to live by. On that note, The Pessimist says the glass is half empty The Optimist says it's half full The Engineer says it's twice as big as it needs to be, curses the designer, and walks off to his drawing board Funny one And as a fan of obscure references, i would love to know what the "$1.05" was all about, too. Although i'll probably have the same reaction as SchizophrenicMC. Edited February 23, 2009 by westfall Quote
Master Dex Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) If you really must know (prepare face palm demotivators, lol). Then it is a reference to Team America World Police, specifically one song called 'Freedom isn't Free' in which the song says freedom costs a buck o' five. If you remember freedom from the topic is for what I was talking about paying $1.05. Enjoy face palms. Edited February 23, 2009 by Master Dex Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 If you really must know (prepare face palm demotivators, lol). Then it is a reference to Team America World Police, specifically one song called 'Freedom isn't Free' in which the song says freedom costs a buck o' five. If you remember freedom from the topic is for what I was talking about paying $1.05. Enjoy face palms. /facepalm How did I not see that? Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 If you really must know (prepare face palm demotivators, lol). Then it is a reference to Team America World Police, specifically one song called 'Freedom isn't Free' in which the song says freedom costs a buck o' five. If you remember freedom from the topic is for what I was talking about paying $1.05. Enjoy face palms. Awww man.. I've watched it like 5 times and still didn't catch that. Guess I should be listening to the lyrics more Must be the puppet sex that distracted me. Anyway, back to the topic: Aliens from another universe, plausible. Aliens from another dimension, makes no sense. Quote
Zinjo Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 Well the Vajra are an inter/extra galactic species. We saw in MF that when it is mating season, Vajra from other galalxies converge. The PD are from SD space or the SD environment. They are apparently incorporeal beings capable of "possessing" sentient life. Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 They are apparently incorporeal beings capable of "possessing" sentient life. That's the part that makes no sense . Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 That's the part that makes no sense . It works for me. They are non-physical beings that have sentience. Think a spirit, if you're religious. Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 They are non-physical beings that have sentience. Think a spirit, if you're religious. Exactly. Makes no sense . Quote
Gubaba Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 Exactly. Makes no sense . Maybe not, but it seems unfair to single out Macross 7. Non-corporeal entities are a common SF trope, as are higher dimensional beings. Quote
Killer Robot Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 Maybe not, but it seems unfair to single out Macross 7. Non-corporeal entities are a common SF trope, as are higher dimensional beings. It's not that it's a rare thing in sci-fi: lots of things are common in sci-fi that I wouldn't really expect or want out of a new Macross series. For something that started so heavily on the "Just Like Us" approach to alien design, where the ancient galaxy spanning civilization had been very humanlike and in fact humans were seeded/engineered in their image, and their remaining weapons were similarly humanlike only larger and stronger, it set a certain tone. That tone was rather broken when the second type of alien encountered consisted of giant space monsters with no special resemblance between each other, possessed by extradimensional beings which can only be damaged by song-fueled chi powers. After that, the third alien enemy being a symbiotic relationship of giant space bugs and a network of ansible-linked microbes was a step back into harder sci-fi by comparison It wasn't "too crazy for sci-fi" so much as arguably "too crazy for Macross." I'm sure many who had issue as is would have found it easier to swallow had it been a standalone, or a sequel to a series that had some prior manifestation or hint of seriously inhuman aliens/creations and of superhuman powers. Had there been a series in 1973 that was about slightly futuristic fighter pilots and the people around them with no hint of aliens or spaceships, then ten years later SDFM was a sequel to that - people might have found an invasion fleet of four million ships filled with ten meter tall green men to be really out there, right? Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) Maybe not, but it seems unfair to single out Macross 7. Non-corporeal entities are a common SF trope, as are higher dimensional beings. That true.. ahh well I guess I'm more a hard sf guy than anything--more on the science and less on the fiction I'm fine with technobabble though. Edited February 25, 2009 by edwin3060 Quote
Gubaba Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 It's not that it's a rare thing in sci-fi: lots of things are common in sci-fi that I wouldn't really expect or want out of a new Macross series. For something that started so heavily on the "Just Like Us" approach to alien design, where the ancient galaxy spanning civilization had been very humanlike and in fact humans were seeded/engineered in their image, and their remaining weapons were similarly humanlike only larger and stronger, it set a certain tone. That tone was rather broken when the second type of alien encountered consisted of giant space monsters with no special resemblance between each other, possessed by extradimensional beings which can only be damaged by song-fueled chi powers. After that, the third alien enemy being a symbiotic relationship of giant space bugs and a network of ansible-linked microbes was a step back into harder sci-fi by comparison It wasn't "too crazy for sci-fi" so much as arguably "too crazy for Macross." I'm sure many who had issue as is would have found it easier to swallow had it been a standalone, or a sequel to a series that had some prior manifestation or hint of seriously inhuman aliens/creations and of superhuman powers. Had there been a series in 1973 that was about slightly futuristic fighter pilots and the people around them with no hint of aliens or spaceships, then ten years later SDFM was a sequel to that - people might have found an invasion fleet of four million ships filled with ten meter tall green men to be really out there, right? Different strokes for different folks, I guess...I was never bothered by it. Of course, there were OTHER things in Macross 7 that had me alternately scratching my head and pulling my hair out, but the nature of the Protodeviln wasn't among them. That true.. ahh well I guess I'm more a hard sf guy than anything--more on the science and less on the fiction I'm fine with technobabble though. ..Because nothing is closer to science fact than planes that turn into robots, giant humans with purple skin and blue hair, and virtuoid idols that can somehow control wires and hypnotize and entire city, right? And I've yet to come across any hard SF featuring a giant tuna. Just to be clear, I love Macross...but Gregory Benford, it ain't. Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 ..Because nothing is closer to science fact than planes that turn into robots, giant humans with purple skin and blue hair, and virtuoid idols that can somehow control wires and hypnotize and entire city, right? And I've yet to come across any hard SF featuring a giant tuna. Just to be clear, I love Macross...but Gregory Benford, it ain't. Anything is possible with technobabble! Quote
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