Currently watching Macross 7

[Lonewolf]

IMHO it gets better around ep 20. The ending of the series is ackward.

[chrono]

15 episodes! YEOW!

That's a long time to wait. But I assume that you'll start getting more character and story development along the way?

[Star Dragon]

Haha, I thought it only picked up for me when they started "Macross Idol"...

I was so stupified, I HAD to keep watching!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Protodevlin are just devils that took possession of people and fed on thier emotions. So when you are depressed you attract the devils and they feed off that energy.

Think of venom from spiderman. The hate, the anger, the need to kill, is something that can be inside anyone. So venom = the devil inside people when they give into the negative emotions.

Basara is like the solution to free people from the negative that makes them braindead. Spiritua heals the person who is depressed and drained of life. One example of this is the character Alice Holiday who lost the will to keep singing. When she was exposed to the energy of the younger generation it inspired her to keep creating and producing more.

Artists can feel drained of creative energy. So when the basara guy kept singing and singing, the devils couldn't possess those creatures anymore and those creatures could create thier own things rather than feeding off humans like vampires and allowing thier negative feelings to remain. They had some creative force awakened inside them to be able to produce energy for themselves. No need for human farms.

I keep thinking that this story is similar to the matrix where all the dead people are those that have thier bodies used as an energy source for the robots and willingly accept the world as it is by giving up thier individuality and identity and just being a number. The cool people, don't allow the matrix to shape thier feelings, like all the people living in the matrix ignorant of a world outside the one they live in, they instead create thier own reality outside the matrix and shape the world. (kind of like a god but they have to hack into the computer to mod the computer world as opposed to having super powers)

Basara is basically a jesus figure saving people from themselves. If you consider that war starts from humans to begin with (humans are just as warlike as the zentradi) then you can consider basara as like a peacemaker trying to use non-violent ways to solve problems by making people independant of the need to take from others which would be one thing that people fight about that may start wars in the first place)

If people had energy inside them to create things, so they didn't need to kill other people to get it, would humans fight and compete with other for food like the animals in nature have to? Humans are materialistic. Maybe that's why the PC destroyed themselves? They were scared to lose what they had and couldn't trust people? Eventually they got selfish, develop weapons, use these to kill each other and the war spread not just between them but involved the whole known explored universe. (resulting in the giants who were purposely created for only 1 purpose - destruction)

The pc were really US, in the future. So the story is a warning to future humans to not be so materialistic and share stuff. Mylene is an example since she couldn't have been allowed to access the knowledge in the ruins without being a product of two different races joining together. Sounds kinda touchy-feely, but it's in all the macross stories such as DYRL where giants had to unite and break thier mind controlled programming, very much like the people living in the matrix who had to be awakened to the real world.

Just think of spiritua as the powers that Neo had when he was inside the matrix, and Basara as being someone who could naturally tap into the energy through his songs. People feelings of hate and anger and depression go away when they hear a song, laugh, and think outside the box by opening thier mind to other things. (Neo in the matrix broke the rules as did the Agent Smith guy later on causing them to accidentally tap into some superhuman ability)

I don't know if this analogy is a good one but it makes sense to me. They are both considered science fiction movies, but there is a common theme in them of "breaking the system and not following the existing one handed down to you", in order to bring an end to an endless repeating cycle. (in the case of matrix the reliance of robots on humans as a battery, and in the case of mac 7, the need for beings to have to keep feeding off humans all the time) Killing each other is only going to be a patch-fix and short term band-aid solution because eventually the various sides will destroy each other by killing each other off - leading to extinction once the weapons become destructive enough to kill millions at a time and it gets out of control. There has to be a solution that gives both sides what they want.

I guess the singing is the way to make people calm and forget war, so in the show it is represented as some mysterious magic force. It didn't really have to be that way to the point of replacing weapons with music speakers but it gets the point across that way. They did it again in zero by making the villages hate materialistic things like radios and valkyries. They could be seen as the products of materialistic men who use them to fight and kill each other in order to obtain them. A bit like the animals competing for food in nature. But the difference is nature usually gives back and uses what it takes to create things. Men use it to create weapons which destroy things. The song of destruction is the music the humans make everytime they fire some new weapon to kill something, the song of creation is the nature you see in the show. The protoculture were trying to run from that war to start all over again because earth must have seemed like a paradise away from war when they came along. with lots of primitive life. But ironically its the weapons they brought with them that endangered us. Since the UN and AntiUn wanted to use them to make thier killing machines more sophisticated.

I think these kind of theme are not popular amoungst some because it tries to preach to you. Some people just want a simple robot show with action in it. I'm a fan of both. I don't hate macross 7, I understand it, but I tend to go with the style of macross plus and SDF:Macross more than macross 7. I just can't take the usage of sound weapons that seriously. I've mentioned in previous posts that at least in SDF:Macross when minmay sang her songs, there were still some zentradi out there who developed an immunity to minmay's music and started to learn our tricks. So the singing wasn't the end all solution to everything. There was more cynicism in SDF:macross I felt. Kamjin knew humans would try singing but still broke from the spell of minmay's song to continue to be a threat to the good guys in the story. In the end what resulted was some zentradi holding to thier warrior beliefs and defecting from the human side to fight as warriors again for what they believed was "right" to them. (even though we know they've been programmed to think this way) It wasn't a happy feel good ending like the one in macross 7. There was also the possibility of "there could be more like him out there" and it left the story open. DYRL also had left the ending open with the possibility that some just won't ever agree to be peaceful and to me that means you needed the weapons just in case.

Many people feel that basara method can endanger lives because not everyone is a ace pilot like he is, to be able to just doge your way through things. It's just sorta judgemental to those who would feel more comfortable shooting things because it's their way of fighting. You could choose to fight through songs, or with weapons. But overall, the show doesn't seem believable because the only solution is if everyone just sings their way through it. Yes minmay helped win SW I by song, but it was only a distraction so that we could kill off the leader. One was a bit more realistic and practical; cynical of it ever actually working because it sounded so ridiculous, and another was more idealistic, ALWAYS working and never failing. Somewhere between SDF:Macross and Macross 7 the franchise lost some believability. In Zero, shin doesn't put much faith in the idea of people flying, and we see the girl actually levitate rock with her mind or sing to make plants grow really really fast. She's got super powers not different from a character from the x-men. It's a big jump from SDF:macross where humans are grounded in the practical things and limited to technology, to macross zero where humans are seen able to generate the barrier themselves imo. The girl in macross zero is like the Alien with levitation powers in ET. She went home and the evil humans never got to study her. But instead of her just making the kids bicycle fly in the air, shin mysteriously obtained her powers and made his valk fly into space too! But no explanation. Seemed rushed.

Edited March 16, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[sketchley]

Protodevlin are just devils that took possession of people and fed on thier emotions. So when you are depressed you attract the devils and they feed off that energy.

Don't have time to read that huge post. However, your very first line makes me wonder if you have even seen Macross 7.

Protodevlin are not people, nor Protocultures. They are specially designed, experimental "next generation" Zentraedi called "Evhil Series" that were possessed by entities from another dimension.

From the Compendium: http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology...0000/index.html

Development on powerful biological weapons based on the Zentradi, "Evil Series," begins. [Note: "Evil" pronounced as "Eh-vil."] Evil is the abbreviation of the Protoculture term for "advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapon." Trial production takes place on a scientifically advanced planet (the first planet of the star system later known as Varauta), but because of unresolvable problems with the weapons' power exceeding the fighting capability requirements, trial production is halted.

PC 2868

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, the existence of a sub-universe is confirmed. According to survey results, this sub-universe is abound with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application.

The trial production of super dimension energy gates which can supply energy from the sub-universe is begun, and genetically engineered biological super dimension organs are developed. These biological super dimension organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy.

Because of power problems, the trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Evil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Evil Series."

PC 2871

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, trial production of the "Evil Series" for final tests is begun. Seven Evil Series weapons of seven types including a highly mobile, humanoid "Sivil" for search-and-destroy functions and a super-scale, high-powered "Glavil" for fleet warfare are completed. The Evil Series tests are begun, but at the same time biological super dimension organs overload and extradimensional energy is released. The Evil Series' bodies are occupied by the spiritual energy life form from the sub-universe and thus creating, from the massive fighting capability of the Evil Series and the enormous potential of the spiritial energy, beings with extraordinary fighting ability and a coveting for life energy, "Spiritia." They covet Spiritia in order to continue existing as extra-dimensional beings in this universe. They begin invading the surrounding planets and systems using spaceships and weapons of people from the scientifically advanced planet that they brainwashed. (They later become known as the Supervision Army).

Three months later, the internal conflicts of the Protoculture Stellar Republic are halted as efforts are devoted against the extradimensional energy beings occupying the Evil Series, dubbed "Protodeviln." However, over 30% of the Stellar Republic and several hundred systems are under Protodeviln control and the Spiritia-deprived people number several hundred billion. The Zentradi faction fight but, due to the prime directive "Do not interfere with Protoculture," are unable to fight effectively against the brainwashed Protoculture people under the control of the Protodeviln.

[DestroidDefender]

They (the ProtoDevlin) later become known as the Supervision Army

Wait - so the PD are the actual Supervision Army that the Zentraedi are fighting? I thought the SA were the like the PC's military police, the force that were supposed to keep the Zentraedi in line. I haven't seen all of Mac7 but I have to ask is that explicitly stated in the show? It smells like an off-camera "retcon" to me.

We've been having an interesting discussion about MacII with lots of people citing "the Compendium". Many of the "facts" from the compendium don't seem to have any basis in the story as seen on screen.

[azrael]

Wait - so the PD are the actual Supervision Army that the Zentraedi are fighting? I thought the SA were the like the PC's military police, the force that were supposed to keep the Zentraedi in line. I haven't seen all of Mac7 but I have to ask is that explicitly stated in the show? It smells like an off-camera "retcon" to me.

We've been having an interesting discussion about MacII with lots of people citing "the Compendium". Many of the "facts" from the compendium don't seem to have any basis in the story as seen on screen.

The Protodevlin created the Supervision Army. It was never stated that the SA were the ones controlling the Zentradi for Protoculture. I'm not sure how that info came about.

[DestroidDefender]

It was probably just an assumption of my part. If the Supervision Army were not supervising the Zentraedi then who were supposed to be "supervising"? The Protodevlin's subjugated planets?

[jenius]

Oh you're misreading it, it's the SUPER Vision Army... 'cause they have impecable seeing ability, not because they're over-seers of any sort. The protodevlin only brainwashed the PC who could see really well.

[Zinjo]

The Protodevlin created the Supervision Army. It was never stated that the SA were the ones controlling the Zentradi for Protoculture. I'm not sure how that info came about.

Ah yes, they created it out of the military forces they brainwashed in the Varuata system and the systems they began to invade.

When one considers that the PD controlled 30% of a galactic republic and several hundred systems, you get a sense of just how big the SA became in only 3 months.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Zinjo

[sketchley]

Perhaps the Supervision Army* is the name of the task force or fleet sent to the scientifically advanced planet (of the Protocultures) just after the Evil Series Zentraedi were possessed, and took control (brainwashed) the populace of the entire planet? Yes, speculation on my part, but it gives a logical explanation for the name.

* This is why I prefer the more literal translation 'Inspection Army'... it's meaning is more clear in English!

[Keith]

That would be a good explanation for the SA's name, and would coincide with the naming of the Varuta army, as they were the Varuta expedition team.

[Valkyrie addict]

Basara is not Jesus like!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus was not coky, self centered or driven to achieve his own pleasure, Basara only care about himself and his crappy singind and only sang for himself to achieve his own pleasure and noone understood him, besides, Jesus didn't need to fly and advance high tech valkyrie to prove his point, a donkey was enough for him

EDIT: added smily!

Edited March 18, 2007 by Valkyrie addict

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Nah I meant it in a more loose term because he saves humanity messiah-like. Oh so he is the only person in the world to fight these monsters kind of thing. And he even "dies" at one point. And these PD are like unstoppable force of evil locked away. The only way to deal with them is to seal them like some ancient vampire lying in a coffin for ages until some later generation accidentally unleashes them from thier 100years ancient rest. But only Basara has the way to do it. The military is useless against them. It's a little like how bullets don't hurt zombies enough so a vampire slayer uses techniques like bladed weapons to cut the head off or a stake to puncture the heart so the body can't move anymore. OR how you expose a vampire to sunlight and it dies. In this case they use music to get the ghost or spirit out of the body and the person back to normal. It's an ancient technique that modern science can't explain so it's up to a select group of individuals to handle.

Sketch:

I'll just quote the bit from the compendium I'm interested in:

Three months later, the internal conflicts of the Protoculture Stellar Republic are halted as efforts are devoted against the extradimensional energy beings occupying the Evil Series, dubbed "Protodeviln."

The extradimensional energy beings are the devils controlling the bioweapons. (proto meaning "first", devlin sounding like the word "devil", so these being the "first devils" recorded by the ancient PC and explained by exedol when he visits the ancient PC ruins where the cave paintings were showing the history of the PC and how they came about) Think a mixture of resident evil with ghostbusters. (demons, spirits, ghosts entering and possessing a person to control them against their will or intentionally invited by the host body.)

Basara cures the possessed being by exorcisng the evil spirits from the weapons and they no longer become vampiric needing to eat energy to sustain thier existence.

PD = the ghosts from the other dimension. (there are probably living beings in that dimension)

Evil = the weapons themselves.

The reason I imagine them as vamps is because they feed off humans and use them like cattle. Sucking them off energy to survive. As if they were no more than food. Humans are the animals, the devils use the humans (feeding off them like the vamps) as a food source the same way that humans eat animals or plants to survive. The protodevlin are so scary they are the zentradi's equivalent to seeing a ancient vampire or ghost. (even Exedol is freaked out and hides under the ship as if it is the end of the world or something. If it was just the evil series itself he would have just explained what they were in a casual manner.)

The first thing that comes to mind when you see the PD goth chick, is that she looks like a vampire. The "zombies" are just people whose minds or spirit was sucked dry and basara brings thier spirit back through music. Its only through music that the zombies come back to "life". Ever hear someone call a nerdy boring person a "stiff"? It's as if there is no life in them. The music gave people back thier culture the same way music puts the spirit back into the lifeless zombie. The energy produced from music has a ressurecting effect on the people who've lost thier memory and gone into some zombie like status. It's pseudo-scientific which is why the doctor who makes all the weapons is seen as a little crazy like the ghosbuster were in the ghostbuster's movie. Nobody believes in the spiritual world or vamps or anything in either macross 7 or zero. Aliens yeah, but not supernatrual demons. That is why Exedol is freaked out. It's like a rare event to see one of them.

I think the thing that it reminds me of is the whole concept of opening a gate to hell and not knowing how to stop it because it is an ancient problem that nobody found a solution to or just forgot it. In Doom you have those cyberdemons, in the game halo, it's the flood. In macross it's the protodevlin. But macross 7 didn't make them scary like the former. Macross 7 could have been scary with the whole "monsters in space thing" imo. It's the execution of the series, more than the plan, that failed to make us take it seriously. Zombies are scary in dawn of the dead and resident evil. Demons from hell can be frightening when presented right. It's just that I never felt like the PD were threatening enough to warrant exedol's reaction.

..But if the PD looked and behaved say like the enemies you see in Doom or something where they physically eat humans, sound scary and generally make people into zombie soliders who attack normal people (rather than just sit there in a mindless state) it would be much more interesting. There would be a sense of danger, and people actually dying, sometimes in a gruesome way. The original Bubblegum crisis had that dark feeling to it, which I think would be perfect for a more adult macross.

Edited March 19, 2007 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[MjrMisaHayase]

I was about to start watching episode 40 of Macross 7 when my computer went on the fritz. But, if I do get it back, then I can watch it, unless the file's gone, I can just re-download it.

[Keith]

Basara is not Jesus like!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus was not coky, self centered or driven to achieve his own pleasure, Basara only care about himself and his crappy singind and only sang for himself to achieve his own pleasure and noone understood him,

I don't know, sounds like Jebus to me.

besides, Jesus didn't need to fly and advance high tech valkyrie to prove his point, a donkey was enough for him

EDIT: added smily!

Walks on water, fly's a Valkyrie, same diff!

[Zinjo]

Nah I meant it in a more loose term because he saves humanity messiah-like. Oh so he is the only person in the world to fight these monsters kind of thing. And he even "dies" at one point. And these PD are like unstoppable force of evil locked away. The only way to deal with them is to seal them like some ancient vampire lying in a coffin for ages until some later generation accidentally unleashes them from thier 100years ancient rest.

I didn't get the impression the PD were "evil" (in the traditional sense) at all. Self serving and without respect to any other sentient life yes, but no psychotic malevolence toward everyone. The best description you gave about them were vampiric in nature, with the same attitude that anything with spiritia in it was cattle to be fed upon and by the time of Mac 7 they knew exactly how powerful they were individually.

But only Basara has the way to do it. The military is useless against them. It's a little like how bullets don't hurt zombies enough so a vampire slayer uses techniques like bladed weapons to cut the head off or a stake to puncture the heart so the body can't move anymore. OR how you expose a vampire to sunlight and it dies. In this case they use music to get the ghost or spirit out of the body and the person back to normal. It's an ancient technique that modern science can't explain so it's up to a select group of individuals to handle.

Well Basara and Mylene both possess anima spiritia abilities and it often took both of them to "handle" the PD

when they attacked. Hardly messianic powers for Basara.

I always thought the singing broke the mind control effect the PD had over their army, not so much a restoration of their spirit. Since I got no impression they actually fed on their own soldiers.

Basara cures the possessed being by exorcisng the evil spirits from the weapons and they no longer become vampiric needing to eat energy to sustain thier existence.

PD = the ghosts from the other dimension. (there are probably living beings in that dimension)

Evil = the weapons themselves.

Actually if I remember correctly he simply taught them how to produce their own spiritia, thus a way of feeding themselves without the need to prey on others. They super dimensional beings still possessed the bio-weaponry.

The protodevlin are so scary they are the zentradi's equivalent to seeing a ancient vampire or ghost. (even Exedol is freaked out and hides under the ship as if it is the end of the world or something. If it was just the evil series itself he would have just explained what they were in a casual manner.)

Maybe. However the Evil series were the most powerful weapons of their day and if only a couple could potentially waste a fleet, the possibility of meeting the whole "gang" would scare me too.

The first thing that comes to mind when you see the PD goth chick, is that she looks like a vampire. The "zombies" are just people whose minds or spirit was sucked dry and basara brings thier spirit back through music. Its only through music that the zombies come back to "life". Ever hear someone call a nerdy boring person a "stiff"? It's as if there is no life in them. The music gave people back thier culture the same way music puts the spirit back into the lifeless zombie. The energy produced from music has a ressurecting effect on the people who've lost thier memory and gone into some zombie like status. It's pseudo-scientific which is why the doctor who makes all the weapons is seen as a little crazy like the ghosbuster were in the ghostbuster's movie. Nobody believes in the spiritual world or vamps or anything in either macross 7 or zero. Aliens yeah, but not supernatrual demons. That is why Exedol is freaked out. It's like a rare event to see one of them.

Interesting speculation, however I don't agree with some of it. Essentially the idea that the PD would feed on their troops during the series, however I can't say it isn't a possibility.

In macross it's the protodevlin. But macross 7 didn't make them scary like the former. Macross 7 could have been scary with the whole "monsters in space thing" imo. It's the execution of the series, more than the plan, that failed to make us take it seriously. Zombies are scary in dawn of the dead and resident evil. Demons from hell can be frightening when presented right. It's just that I never felt like the PD were threatening enough to warrant exedol's reaction.

YES! Had the PD been effectively scary then it would have redeemed the series in my opinion. Their concept and the idea of possessed bio-weapons of incredible power is a scary idea and I wish it had been played up more.

I don't know, sounds like Jebus to me.

Walks on water, fly's a Valkyrie, same diff!

Why does this not surprise me about you Keith?

[Keith]

YES! Had the PD been effectively scary then it would have redeemed the series in my opinion. Their concept and the idea of possessed bio-weapons of incredible power is a scary idea and I wish it had been played up more.

The Protodevelin aren't scary unless you're Zentradi. i.e. the fear isn't being marketed towards you!

[Kamjin 639]

The Protodevelin aren't scary unless you're Zentradi. i.e. the fear isn't being marketed towards you!

That answers the mysterious question as to why Exedol didn't just leave Battle 7 and squish 'em when they came into the city...

MAX: Advisor Exedol! I order you to--

EXEDOL: *slips head down*

MAX: Dammit! *looks down hole* Come back up here or I'll release the footage of you singing ç§ã®å½¼ã¯ãƒ‘イロットï¼

EXEDOL: Noooo...

[DestroidDefender]

I'm so desperate for new Macross I'm trying to watch Macross 7 again. Surprisingly I'm not hating it. I do have a few observations:

• The main story is moving very slowly. I can see why I gave up the last few times.

• It uses an inter-cutting editing style that's a gets a bit tiresome and hard to follow. It changes back and forth between parallel scenes in the middle of the action - usually with the music blaring in the background.

• The character animation is often quite good. The mecha animation is wooden, repetitive and generally not good. Any shots besides the reused Valkyries are usually framed to tight and move so quickly you can't tell what they are showing you.

But actually I'm kind of digging it. I don't actually think I can blame Macross 7 for "ruining" my Macross. I think the the whole music/spiritua thing starts in DYRL. For me thats where things start to go off the rails. No sense blaming Macross 7.

[Kamjin 639]

The main story is moving very slowly. I can see why I gave up the last few times.

Has anyone ever considered the option of making a "Macross 7 Edited Version" using a limited amount of footage and story from the series?

Bear with me here. I'd try it myself but I neither own Macross 7 nor have sufficient video editing skills/programmes to attempt this, but were I to hear that someone here on Macross World had worked on the project, I'd be in line to see it:

- Like the Mobile Suit Gundam movies, taking the full run of episodes and using only the best footage and the plot-lines that are most valuable to the overall story.

- Cut-out a lot of the garbage, thus making it less tenuous for the viewer to get a good 'feel' for the universe portrayed in the series.

- Maybe splice-in different versions of the songs (via MP3) to make the BGM more exciting.

- End result: Four-to-six hours of Macross 7 bliss.

- Icing on the Cake: More people understand how to appreciate Macross 7's good points.

Any takers?

[Dio]

I'm probably not in the majority when I say Mac7 is my single favorite series in the whole continuity... and I feel it's my duty to point out that Gamlin is the one who saves the day in the end, not Basara

[Sorata]

I'm probably not in the majority when I say Mac7 is my single favorite series in the whole continuity... and I feel it's my duty to point out that Gamlin is the one who saves the day in the end, not Basara

Are you refering to him constantly covering Sound Forces butt, saving the group in Operation Stargazer or discovering the Spiritia gathering weapons in the enemy Variables, or bringing Basara back from acoma Or flying Mylene around in the Jamming Bird or.......

Not to start a rabid debate as this type of question usually results, in one but dont you guys think that even Basara was hinting to Mylene that she actually was in love with Gamlin rather than him but just didnt realize it. An example is his response to Mylene in Episode 46 after she saves Gamlin when Basara says that she "doesnt get it" when Ray told her her feelings got through to Gamlin. Add the fact she gave her charm to him, and she wore his ring however she does seem confused as in episode 49 she said she like both of them equally. But I think her feelings for Basara is more admiration and a crush and wish to be like him in some ways than anything else.

[Keith]

I'm probably not in the majority when I say Mac7 is my single favorite series in the whole continuity... and I feel it's my duty to point out that Gamlin is the one who saves the day in the end, not Basara

While Gamlin's role was important, Basara is the one who saves everyones asses. i.e. no Gamlin, everyone would have pulled through some how. No Basara, the universe would be completely devoid of life.

And 7 is my favorite as well

[RDClip]

I'm probably not in the majority when I say Mac7 is my single favorite series in the whole continuity... and I feel it's my duty to point out that Gamlin is the one who saves the day in the end, not Basara

trying to redeem youself, eh

[Dio]

trying to redeem youself, eh

Nah, more like emphasizing my shameless preference for the show

Honestly though... Gamlin busting out some Planet Dance was even more of a step for his character than Gigil singing, that's why I give him the credit. Purely personal opinion, though - and no doubt there's some bias in my thinking because I'm a much more professional, organized sort of person in the same way Gamlin's character is.

I'd probably lump Gamlin and Basara in as 50/50 responsible for saving the universe, if I had to really think about it. At many points in the series, they're pretty much nothing without each other. One segment of the show intro also juxtaposes them against one another in a very half-and-half orientation, which would probably suggest to me that the writers had that scheme in mind the whole time.

[protodeviln]

"I'd probably lump Gamlin and Basara in as 50/50 responsible for saving the universe"

I give 100% responsibility for saving the universe to Guvava

Edited April 18, 2007 by protodeviln

[Zinjo]

I give 100% responsibility for saving the universe to Guvava

YES! Without him the show would have been a total write off....

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Can't we just say its a team effort? Humans started to sing and this revived basara from the grave. As you can see in one of the ovas singing can make plants grow faster.

[Dio]

I give 100% responsibility for saving the universe to Guvava

That animal is the single reason my wife watches this show with me... and she squeaks like he does, too.

[Garrick]

I always tought that Guvava was some sort of living sex toy for Mylene...

*Takes shelter*

Anyway, i'm watching Macross 7 too at the moment, and stock footage aside it doesn't seem to be as bad as someone describes it. Obviously there are moments in wich i would grab Basara by the neck, drag him around to the hospital and show him the pilots who got drained of Spiritia screaming "If you actually had pulled that fart*** trigger out there, maybe there could be less people here and more in the streets! This is the result of your undoing!"

Edited April 20, 2007 by Garrick

[SpacyAce2012]

Sure. Basara had a high degree of skill. He would have been one hell of an ace.

But that wasn't his role. Basara was there to show that firepower doesn't solve everything. Gamlin was there to show that lofty ideals don't solve all the universe's problems. Sometimes trigger pulling is needed.

[Garrick]

Actually it's the fact tha Basara doesn't care for the lives of his compatriots that pisses me off, you can be against violence, but that doesn't prevent you from intercepting missiles and/or shielding allies.

Anyway

Gamlin FTW!

[Radd]

Actually it's the fact tha Basara doesn't care for the lives of his compatriots that pisses me off,

If you honestly believe that, you've entirely missed the point.

Maybe if you stick with the show long enough you'll figure it out, though.

[Garrick]

I'm still at Episode 28 if that helps. Since there are still 29 more episodes, probably there's more to it as you pointed out.

I do know that if you keep "feeding" the conflict, it will grow bigger and bigger but... as of now i can't figure out how Basara can keep singing in battle while pilots are dying left and right. UN Spacy pilots don't always have the "luxury" of getting spiritia drained, in a few episodes, if basara had intervened (And by intervened i don't mean shooting, but acting as a decoy or shielding them with the pin point barrier) maybe some pilots wouldn't have died. Basara is openly anti-war, and clearly cares for both factions yet he lets people die. I can't get it... i still have half of the series to watch, but still...

Edited April 21, 2007 by Garrick