Currently watching Macross 7

[VFTF1]

As for Elma, good thing Basara isn't interested in kids or Graham would've pounded him.

Eh? Graham makes pedophilia a litmus test for whether or not he's attracted to another guy?

Seriously though: this thread can't be allowed to die! Ergo - I will breath new life into it with the following thoughts:

In Episode 5 of Frontier, Sheryl gushes over how great Frontier is and how horrible Galaxy is - aesthetic wise.

I wonder - how would Sheryl have found City 7?

To my mind, City 7 was, much like the original Macross City onboard the...er...Macross... somewhat homogenous in outward appearance. Beyond Basara's brick dive and the general disshevled nature of his "underground rebellious slum" district, it appeared to me that not much effort went into the design of City 7.

More effort was given to creating a diversity of "ships" - the Einstein, Holywood and all those others... (my favorite being the Sunflower Farm ship )...

Anyways - I prefer what they've done in Frontier; by which I mean - they've obviously made a huge effort to get the design of the cities down pat and make them very interesting.

I never got a feeling for City 7 beyond homogeneity, whereas Frontier has it's own style that is unique.

Thoughts?

VFTF1

[RedWolf]

Akusho, Basara's pad, isn't really a registered part of City 7.

Nobody lives there except Basara and Ray. I think Vividas lives in City 7.

Just like the vegetation plant it is a island ship attached to City 7.

There is something I've notice with Basara and vehicles. He can pilot any vehicle expertly whether a scooter or motorcycle, even a Valkyrie no hands! Just elbows.

Which leads me to think Basara is a savant. Which could explain his genius ability while being immature. Being compulsive when sets his mind into something.

Being a savant also explains how Basara is able to perform the qm-69 without a sweat.

As far as we know Basara didn't attend a flight school. His entire life prior to Macross 7 is mystery. The town he used to live doesn't even know who he really is.

The old man who likes golf only knows that kid used to sing everyday at the mountain with howling winds.

[Radd]

And a lot of the old timers here at Macrossworld either currently serve or have served in the military, so Basara's anti-military stance might raise a few hackles.

I never really saw Basara as particularly anti-military. He wasn't like Kaifun, giving anyone in uniform a hard time. Basara was fine with military people, he even eventually got along with Gamlin pretty well. He didn't jump around denouncing the military and everything they did, he just thought fighting in general was not the answer, and was willing to run out in the thick of things, without firing a shot himself, to get that point across. Whenever he did utter something bad against the military, it was always directed at something specific.

While I agree that his views put off a lot of people here, I still think he, and Macross 7 in general, fell victim to poor direction. The show lacked balance between the character development and the mecha action, and also between Basara and Gamlin. A lot of it comes off as hokey, and many episodes are far too formulaic. At times it came off like a monster-of-the-week kinda show. Plus the idea that spiritua=magic comes, primarily, from the way it was presented in M7.

Really, Macross 7 is basically all the elements we loved from every other Macross show, just the way it's packaged and put out there, quite understandably, puts a lot of people off. I suspect if it had been presented more like Frontier or Plus, keeping the very same themes and ideas, not substantially changing the characters or their motivations, both Basara and Macross 7 as a series would have been better received by the sorts of people who are quite vocal here about how much they dislike it.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I wonder - how would Sheryl have found City 7?

To my mind, City 7 was, much like the original Macross City onboard the...er...Macross... somewhat homogenous in outward appearance. Beyond Basara's brick dive and the general disshevled nature of his "underground rebellious slum" district, it appeared to me that not much effort went into the design of City 7.

More effort was given to creating a diversity of "ships" - the Einstein, Holywood and all those others... (my favorite being the Sunflower Farm ship )...

Anyways - I prefer what they've done in Frontier; by which I mean - they've obviously made a huge effort to get the design of the cities down pat and make them very interesting.

I never got a feeling for City 7 beyond homogeneity, whereas Frontier has it's own style that is unique.

Thoughts?

VFTF1

Memory might be failing me, but didn't City 7 designs have like, a ton of buildings modeled from famous ones from old earth? like a big ben next to an eifel tower next to a empire state building etc? They just weren't shown very much in the show? Or am I confusing it with the culture park from Macross II ?

Either way, beyond what was already mentioned, the rest of City 7 felt utterly forgetable. In contrast, Island one feels like a very vibrant metropol, fusing san fran with parts of Tokyo (with these city blocks even named after their model cities)... wonder if there's more... well surely there is, but which ones

[azrael]

Memory might be failing me, but didn't City 7 designs have like, a ton of buildings modeled from famous ones from old earth? like a big ben next to an eifel tower next to a empire state building etc? They just weren't shown very much in the show? Or am I confusing it with the culture park from Macross II ?

That's was MII.

Either way, beyond what was already mentioned, the rest of City 7 felt utterly forgetable. In contrast, Island one feels like a very vibrant metropol, fusing san fran with parts of Tokyo (with these city blocks even named after their model cities)... wonder if there's more... well surely there is, but which ones

City 7 is only 1/3 the size of the Island 1 module. It's not like they could fit a bridge in there...

[stray]

City 7 had the Milky Road though... so much cooler than the interconnected islands.

[Nexx Stalker]

Just think of the poor scheming villains

of Galaxy

deciding to go against Macross 7 instead of Frontier. Their ears would be in for such a big, big surprise

Edited July 21, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[DestroidDefender]

Memory might be failing me, but didn't City 7 designs have like, a ton of buildings modeled from famous ones from old earth? like a big ben next to an eifel tower next to a empire state building etc? They just weren't shown very much in the show? Or am I confusing it with the culture park from Macross II ?

That was in Macross II, but a similar set up in City 7 was depicted in the Macross 7 Trash manga.

[RedWolf]

That was in Macross II, but a similar set up in City 7 was depicted in the Macross 7 Trash manga.

That was inside the entertainment ship Hollywood also seen in Macross 7.

Edited July 22, 2008 by RedWolf

[stray]

Backtracking a bit, since I have time...

All in all, it is true that the romantic angle in M7 is skewed because the male lead, while being "loved" does not reciprocate - kind of like Alto actually, and unlike Hikaru, Isamu, Guld, Shin and Roy; who all - in their own way- do find happiness in their relationships...

I think a big part of Alto not reciprocating just comes form being overwhelmed... might have been the same with Basara. Just because you have chicks (hot as they might be) throwing themselves at you doesn't mean it's a good scene.

I dunno - I just think that in all seriousness Bassara is an artist and not a "rocker" in the groupies/heroine sense. He demonstrates that contemporary rock and roll can have a higher cultural purpose - as Minmey demonstrated that sentimental pop music does not have to just be "mere entertainment."

The stereotype of the sex/drugs obssessed rocker is tossed out in favor of the idea of the serious, unconventional, philosophically driven artist who takes culture seriously as a means for changing people from the inside.

Bassara is basically a return to the "original" counterculture revolution in contradistinction to the "corporatized/commercialized" MTV generation - where music became more of a business than a political movement to change the world.

Agreed, almost 100%

There is something I've notice with Basara and vehicles. He can pilot any vehicle expertly whether a scooter or motorcycle, even a Valkyrie no hands! Just elbows.

Driving with elbows is jet flying dinosaur with laser beam helmet awesome tho!

The old man who likes golf only knows that kid used to sing everyday at the mountain with howling winds.

Maybe he just heard the Shamen song and thought you could "move any mountain..."

Really, Macross 7 is basically all the elements we loved from every other Macross show, just the way it's packaged and put out there, quite understandably, puts a lot of people off. I suspect if it had been presented more like Frontier or Plus, keeping the very same themes and ideas, not substantially changing the characters or their motivations, both Basara and Macross 7 as a series would have been better received by the sorts of people who are quite vocal here about how much they dislike it.

I really have to respect the fact that Kawamori and co. risked alienating fans to do Seven. It wasn't a flop by any means, but at the same time... it isn't SDFM or DYRL, or Plus. Honestly, once I put SDFM out of my mind I really, really started to appreciate Macross Seven for what it is. It's a really solid series, some pacing issues aside, but if you're too busy focusing on what it isn't, you won't see the forest for the trees. Or something. (Probably the worst rant I've written in months but I'm tired, so... you get the gist.)

Edited July 22, 2008 by stray

[Gubaba]

I never really saw Basara as particularly anti-military. He wasn't like Kaifun, giving anyone in uniform a hard time. Basara was fine with military people, he even eventually got along with Gamlin pretty well. He didn't jump around denouncing the military and everything they did, he just thought fighting in general was not the answer, and was willing to run out in the thick of things, without firing a shot himself, to get that point across. Whenever he did utter something bad against the military, it was always directed at something specific.

While I agree that his views put off a lot of people here, I still think he, and Macross 7 in general, fell victim to poor direction. The show lacked balance between the character development and the mecha action, and also between Basara and Gamlin. A lot of it comes off as hokey, and many episodes are far too formulaic. At times it came off like a monster-of-the-week kinda show. Plus the idea that spiritua=magic comes, primarily, from the way it was presented in M7.

Really, Macross 7 is basically all the elements we loved from every other Macross show, just the way it's packaged and put out there, quite understandably, puts a lot of people off. I suspect if it had been presented more like Frontier or Plus, keeping the very same themes and ideas, not substantially changing the characters or their motivations, both Basara and Macross 7 as a series would have been better received by the sorts of people who are quite vocal here about how much they dislike it.

I stand corrected. One of the endearing (?) things about Basara is that he will respect anyone who sits down and listens. If Mussolini came by and said, "Hey, could you play that 'Submarine Street' song? I dig it," Basara would think the old dude was a-okay.

So I would venture to say that Basara isn't anti-anybody, really. There's just "Audience" and "Potential Audience."

As for the other problems with M7 that you mention, I can't really disagree, but they don't really bug me much anymore, and wouldn't bug me at all if the series were at least ten episodes shorter. There IS room for goofiness in Macross ("Mr. Lingerie," anyone?), and the underlying message of M7 is pretty radical, at least in the world of mecha shows.

This idea just occured to me right now, so I don't know if it's worth anything, but here goes: I wonder if one of the reasons Macross fans react violently against M7 is because there's an implied criticism of them (us) in the show...i.e. "Remember all those explosions and missiles and stuff you thought was so cool in the original show? Well, here's a main character who definitely does NOT agree with you, and any time he chides Mylene for using missiles, he's also chiding you for wanting to see them used."

I dunno...it's a thought.

[Morpheus]

I guess Basara needed war to express his singing capability, he want to be like Minmay right? He want to stop fighting/war by singing to show that he's capable of moving people heart (hell, even he want to move an entire mountain with his song).

So when there's no war around, guess what's he's doing? Go to a planet with space whales and taking a bath with some lolis Luckily for us the whale poacher is there.