Sumdumgai Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I'd prefer a PVC statue, there's something that makes it look more skin-like than resin can, in my eyes. Quote
myk Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I'd prefer a PVC statue, there's something that makes it look more skin-like than resin can, in my eyes. Wow, really? Also consider that painted resin statues are really expensive over their PVC counterparts... Quote
Oihan Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 Well, I finally decided to watch the first few episodes of Macross 7...and well.... Quote
vermillion01 Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 Well, I finally decided to watch the first few episodes of Macross 7...and well.... Trust me... it gets better. around ep 22 onwards... the first ones are the most difficult. Quote
Exsedol Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 Well, I finally decided to watch the first few episodes of Macross 7...and well.... Haha it's an aquiered taste. Quote
Smiley424 Posted November 1, 2007 Author Posted November 1, 2007 It's nice to see a topic I started still going strong . I think it's worth watching to see Max and Millia in their Vf-22s near the end of the series. I've been thinking about watching Mac7 again. Actually, I might do the entire saga in chronological order (Macross Zero, SDF Macross, Macross Plus, Macross 7) since its been about 4-6 years since I've watched SDF Macross and Macross 7. Just a little refresher before Macross Fontier or whatever the new show is called comes out. Quote
Keith Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 Well, I finally decided to watch the first few episodes of Macross 7...and well.... Wait, you mean after years of you going on about Macross II, you still haven't watched through 7? Hurry up and watch the damn show! That's almost as bad as what's his name who refused to watch DYRL, but battyed about it constantly! Quote
kensei Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) No one has the right to criticise a show without seeing it first. M7 certainly had some lows. Those good moments hardly showed up in the first twenty eps. It gets much better towards the end, although are some eps in there that make you go WTF. The ending was excellent though. Delving more into the history of the Protoculture was the most important aspect of M7. That was one of the main saving graces of the show. I must admit, if things went the same way as the first ten eps, I certainly wouldn't watch it till the end. Edited November 1, 2007 by kensei Quote
Mr March Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) Currently on episode 42. Oh dear, this show is awful If I didn't have to research to build a proper Macross 7 section on the M3, I never would have watched past the first dozen episodes I originally endured years ago. There is nothing so far that would redeem the utter monotony of this show nor the absurd concept of the narrative. The series just gets so many things wrong and you can see each mistep or heavy-handed attempt to say something. The first two-thirds of the series is dominated by one pointless, vapid episode after another and when something finally happens the show sabotages any momentum with ANOTHER long...string...of...filler...episodes. This show could easily have been a 26-episode series or more appropriately a tight 12-episode OVA. One could say Macross 7 is frustrating to watch as a Macross fan but its so much worse that to say so little is a disservice; I could write an entire essay on why this show doesn't work from nearly any perspective; value to the fan versus non-fan, worth as simple pop entertainment, quality by critical analysis, musically, visually, conceptually, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. But I think I'll stick to something more positive and just build mecha profiles Edited November 1, 2007 by Mr March Quote
Zinjo Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) No one has the right to criticise a show without seeing it first. M7 certainly had some lows. Those good moments hardly showed up in the first twenty eps. It gets much better towards the end, although are some eps in there that make you go WTF. The ending was excellent though. Delving more into the history of the Protoculture was the most important aspect of M7. That was one of the main saving graces of the show. I must admit, if things went the same way as the first ten eps, I certainly wouldn't watch it till the end. I can only really agree with that last statement and part of the second, but I tend to see the series on a similar level to Marchy... The ending is increadibly lame. The only redeeming quality IMO was the battle with Max and Millia back in the saddle.... Mac Zero with all it's warts was easier to come to terms with the ambiguous ending compared to Mac 7... Then again SK has typically demonstrated a more Westernized approach to his story telling as a director... Edited November 1, 2007 by Zinjo Quote
kensei Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 I can only really agree with that last statement and part of the second, but I tend to see the series on a similar level to Marchy... The ending is increadibly lame. The only redeeming quality IMO was the battle with Max and Millia back in the saddle.... THe battle in general was what i meant. If you mean the "you know what" ending with Basara and all, no I didn't particularly like that. Quote
VFTF1 Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 I'm warming to the series. I don't really like the Mecha as much as other Macross series because of the goofy colors and the departure from realism - what always made Macross design special was how close it was to real world militaria, with a small twist, and this made the transition part easy to bear... anyways... M7 really is zany - but the story is fun in other ways... it's kind of a kiddie soap opera, but I like it... I'm an M7 fan... I guess... with reservations. Certainly it's the WORSE Macross series out there - that said; it's still better than lots of other toons by a long shot... VFTF1 Quote
Exsedol Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 I think it's worth watching to see Max and Millia in their Vf-22s near the end of the series. Yea, that and when the retired MAC II crew tried to help but accidently put a giant hole through a building LoL I don't really like the Mecha as much as other Macross series because of the goofy colors and the departure from realism I agree, they looked like gundam mechs. Quote
Keith Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Just out of curiosity, how much anime do you Macross 7 detractor's watch? Quote
eugimon Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Just out of curiosity, how much anime do you Macross 7 detractor's watch? I watch a fair amount and I watch a variety of genres. Quote
VFTF1 Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 I can't say I watch much anime - actually - probably none at all. VFTF1 Quote
Mr March Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Uh oh If I were a more cynical person, I might expect an imminent flurry of theories, generalizations and rationalizations to suddenly populate this thread Why do you ask, if I may? Quote
chrono Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Just out of curiosity, how much anime do you Macross 7 detractor's watch? Roughly 3-4 series, bought, per year not counting the 3-4 I usually DL. It's starting to lessen because of the amount of garbage coming out. Now excuse me I have to go watch something called 'Rental Magic'. Quote
Exsedol Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Just out of curiosity, how much anime do you Macross 7 detractor's watch? LoL enough to know that M7 hopped on the neo-pop anime bandwagon. Quote
Keith Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 I ask because most of the complaints about 7 are about elements that are rampant in most anime series. Quote
Vic Mancini Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 I ask because most of the complaints about 7 are about elements that are rampant in most anime series. But not so rampant in the other Macross movies/series. That's the problem. Most viewers expect a certain vibe from a Macross series and Mac 7 went in a different direction that didn't sit well with a lot of Macross hardcores. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but out of all things Macross, Macross 7 is the most different. Quote
Zinjo Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) I ask because most of the complaints about 7 are about elements that are rampant in most anime series. If I were a more cynical person, I might expect an imminent flurry of theories, generalizations and rationalizations to suddenly populate this thread Too Late! I ask because most of the complaints about 7 are about elements that are rampant in most anime series. That depends entirely on the title being produced. Such a blanket statement is very misleading, however in Keith's case it depends on what shows he is attracted to watching... They may contain "elements that are rampant"... Many have gone the direction of serious SF drama, while others were more juvenile in their approach. Mac 7 was a successful attempt at merchandising music with toys and model kits as secondary items. On Yahoo Japan, the show's most prolific items are invariably the music and the VF-17 & 22s typically. If the music elements were removed from the series, you would have to cut the episode count in half, since much of the first season was nothing more than excuses for the audience to be exposed to the music. They didn't get into the meat of the story until well over half way through the series. Edited November 3, 2007 by Zinjo Quote
VFTF1 Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Might I add that the toys were absolute garbage - unless there's something beyond the bandais that came out? The VF-19s are such utter trash - the Nightmare's aren't that bad but then again the mould is not as complex...in any event... M7 toys are terrible... Would be really nice to get them Yamatoized. VFTF1 Quote
RDClip Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 I have been a major anime fan for over 7 years now. I have seen dozens and dozens of series, some really good ones and some terribly bad ones. M7 wasn't terrible, but it wasn't that great either. It had potential. The series could have been much better, but there is a lot going against it. Many parts of it felt (for me) recycled and repeated (in the majority of episodes there would be the same scene of basara flying out to a skirmish and singing the same way with the same camera shots, with slight variations) The episode count was too long and just became boring and repetitive. The villains weren't that great as villains, most were either too cartoony or just plain annoying. And the most important problem was the main character seemed to be very difficult to relate to. But it does have some good parts about it. The story and history add a lot of depth to the Macross universe. We had some very good story telling and character development with Gamalin and Mylene. And we got some cool new valk designs Quote
Mr March Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) I don't think any alleged similarity between Macross 7 and mecha anime in general (yeah, good luck with that one beyond genre) is the point at all. In fact, I can guarantee it Personally (and I'm not passing judgment) I think the issue has to do with the inability of some Macross 7 fans to accept a critical opinion and to accept Macross 7 not for what it is (especially to the Macross 7 fan himself), but for what it is not. Macross 7 never will be loved and it will never be the important milestone that was SDF Macross. Doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed, but that's just the way it is. Every time a member here on MW posts a critical opinion of Macross 7, invariably some Macross 7 fan posts one theory, rationalization or generalization after another in an attempt to dismiss that opinion. The "discussion," such as it is, generally declines from there. If these particular Macross 7 fans were honestly concerned why other Macross fans dislike Macross 7, they'd learn to accept rather than dismiss, IMO. Too Late! Yeah, saw this one coming from 280,000 kilometers in orbit Edited November 3, 2007 by Mr March Quote
Mr March Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) ack, double darn post Edited November 3, 2007 by Mr March Quote
Sumdumgai Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 I take M7 as a parody of other genres, the way Macross was originally intended to be before they went a more serious route. It's even a parody of Macross itself while it also advances the story. I put off watching it for years because it seemed so... retarded. But I watched it and wound up enjoying it because I didn't take it seriously expecting it to be SDF Macross all over. Quote
VFTF1 Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Good point Mach... Although I would add one more: Macross Zero is amazing. Macross Plus, for its' flaws, is pretty darned snazzy too. Macross 7 is just...something you can find good things in. VFTF1 Quote
Zinjo Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) I take M7 as a parody of other genres, the way Macross was originally intended to be before they went a more serious route. It's even a parody of Macross itself while it also advances the story. I put off watching it for years because it seemed so... retarded. But I watched it and wound up enjoying it because I didn't take it seriously expecting it to be SDF Macross all over. As a parody with the intent to sell music it works completely! It becomes quite a ride, but as March of the Penguins put it, it will never garner the same timeless appreciation that SDFM enjoys. SDFM being a show that remains appreciated for all it's elements despite it's painfully dated animation. One could argue Macross 7 is a corporate sequel to SDFM, not so much an artistic one... Edited November 5, 2007 by Zinjo Quote
Mr March Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 HEY! That's "Mr" March of the Penguins to you, Zinjammin'. Hehehehe Quote
DestroidDefender Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Once could argue Macross 7 is a corporate sequel to SDFM, not so much an artistic one... Ironically that's the usual argument used to dismiss Macross II - it was a corporate made sequel made to cash in on DYRL. But I think there isn't a lot of new ground to cover on Macross 7. If you have not watched then go watch it. It has it's own groove and you either buy in and go for the ride or you don't. None of this should be taken too seriously. We're talking about cartoons with giant robots here! Quote
chrono Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Every time a member here on MW posts a critical opinion of Macross 7, invariably some Macross 7 fan posts one theory, rationalization or generalization after another in an attempt to dismiss that opinion. The "discussion," such as it is, generally declines from there. Sadly true. My only large criticism of the series is that the characters really don't grow much, or even interaction much at an emotional level like friends did in SDF (ok Gamblin grew but he was an outer circle main character) at all over the first 14-20 episodes. Throw in a very slowly developing plot and that the viewer is left with a "monster-of-the-week" feel to the show. Quote
Oihan Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Well, thus far I feel the show would be more enjoyable if the Basara-Valkyrie-action scenes weren't there, and there were fewer concerts.... I love how they use Macross II music though. ...The story thus far is pretty good too imo (minus the many concert/Basara-Valkyrie-action scenes). I still have a ways to go however. Quote
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