Macross Frontier Official Fan Book

[Zinjo]

I have a suspicion that either most of the SK lineart for Frotier will appear either in Chronicle or another SK art book. I agree that most art books about Frontier feature CG or lineart from artists of the show, not Kawamori.

[Mr March]

I don't know. The Chronicle is so far very minimal on line art. They haven't even reprinted half the line art that exists for the VF-1 and that's the most covered valkyrie in the Chronicles thus far. Though if they keep featuring it in every second issue, they might use it all up. We might not really get a good idea of what line art the Chronicle will include until it's finished it's entire run in a year or more.

I suspect that if the line art (not CGI work) from the Macross Frontier series is ever released, it's going to be in books other than the Chronicles. But I hope I'm wrong.

[Zinjo]

I don't know. The Chronicle is so far very minimal on line art. They haven't even reprinted half the line art that exists for the VF-1 and that's the most covered valkyrie in the Chronicles thus far. Though if they keep featuring it in every second issue, they might use it all up. We might not really get a good idea of what line art the Chronicle will include until it's finished it's entire run in a year or more.

I suspect that if the line art (not CGI work) from the Macross Frontier series is ever released, it's going to be in books other than the Chronicles. But I hope I'm wrong.

You may be right.

Thus far all the Frontier books published thus far have had the variable fighter lineart conspicuously absent for the most part. Hell, Hobby Japan has published more MF mecha lineart than any of the "official" books!

If SK is planning another art book, let's all hope he releases his line art work on Zero as well as Frontier.

[azrael]

You may be right.

Thus far all the Frontier books published thus far have had the variable fighter lineart conspicuously absent for the most part. Hell, Hobby Japan has published more MF mecha lineart than any of the "official" books!

If SK is planning another art book, let's all hope he releases his line art work on Zero as well as Frontier.

Perhaps the lineart we've been seeing for the 1/72 models is done intentionally for the models so that they can build detailed molds. Perhaps those drawings were not meant to be published as "official" lineart. I've notice Bandai doing this more and more lately for the Gunplas where model lineart has been published in magazines like Hobby Japan is exceptionally detailed compared to the animation lineart.

[Zinjo]

Perhaps the lineart we've been seeing for the 1/72 models is done intentionally for the models so that they can build detailed molds. Perhaps those drawings were not meant to be published as "official" lineart.

Maybe for the surface detail, but the CG model itself can be fairly easily transferred into a CAD format for the mold building process.

[Mr March]

It's hard to say. I'd be inclined to believe it's model line art since that makes sense, but Macross Frontier is all computer models and highly detailed line art is just what the modelers would need as reference to build. But either way, is it really an issue? I mean, the CGI models in Macross Frontier feature far less "anime magic" by comparison to the traditional mecha line art that the models are almost the same proportions.

[Graham]

One thing very interesting in this book is that there seems to be some new information on the VF-171EX's gunpod, which is not in other sources.

Hopefully, somebody will be willing to translate the relevant text.

Graham

[westfall]

Got mine yesterday and although i has A LOT of repeat stuff it has enough new material to justify its purchase. I haven't seen the character line art or most of the mecha line art in either chronicle or memories. If i had to choose just one book to buy from those already published about Frontier, this would be it.

Another great source for this material are the Blu-Ray disc booklets. Once again, a lot is repeated but theres always something new.

Anyone can translate what's on the yellow binder around the dust cover? It seems to mention something else being published in March, hopefully some NEW material.

[westfall]

Has anyone noticed Ranka's Dad makes her 1st appearence in this book?

I looked through both official files and Memories 2059 and didn't find that pic anywhere else. And funny thing is i hadn't even thought of Ranka and Brera's father till now but there had to be one and until proven otherwise, this guy is it.

On another note, up until now i've accepted episode 15 as being called "Lost Peace" as many fansubs used that title but in this book they call it "Lost PIECE". Is this just another typo or could this be the actual name? Both words sound the same and can be accepted as a romanization of those katakana. And as for significance, it can be the "peace" that was lost now that Frontier is in all out war with the Vajra or it can be "piece" since this episode is like a puzzle, bringing the events of previous episodes (pieces) together and shedding new light on them.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Edited February 20, 2009 by westfall

[edwin3060]

Has anyone noticed Ranka's Dad makes her 1st appearence in this book?

I looked through both official files and Memories 2059 and didn't find that pic anywhere else. And funny thing is i hadn't even thought of Ranka and Brera's father till now but there had to be one and until proven otherwise, this guy is it.

On another note, up until now i've accepted episode 15 as being called "Lost Peace" as many fansubs used that title but in this book they call it "Lost PIECE". Is this just another typo or could this be the actual name? Both words sound the same and can be accepted as a romanization of those katakana. And as for significance, it can be the "peace" that was lost now that Frontier is in all out war with the Vajra or it can be "piece" since this episode is like a puzzle, bringing the events of previous episodes (pieces) together and shedding new light on them.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I'd go with the book since it's a better source than Fansubs.

[AcroRay]

Like Macross Perfect Memory's CONBAT ACTION section...?

[azrael]

Like Macross Perfect Memory's CONBAT ACTION section...?

Exactly. Engrish can make it's way into publications. I'll double check the DVD liner notes though.

[westfall]

On another note, up until now i've accepted episode 15 as being called "Lost Peace" as many fansubs used that title but in this book they call it "Lost PIECE". Is this just another typo or could this be the actual name? Both words sound the same and can be accepted as a romanization of those katakana. And as for significance, it can be the "peace" that was lost now that Frontier is in all out war with the Vajra or it can be "piece" since this episode is like a puzzle, bringing the events of previous episodes (pieces) together and shedding new light on them.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

OK, It seems it is a typo. They also call episode 23 "True Bigin", but the definite evidence comes from this image, taken from the Blu-Ray menu.

I take it that Bandai checks for typos when making a DVD or Blu-Ray so i accept this as being the true title. But the double meaning thing still holds true, i think

Has anyone noticed Ranka's Dad makes her 1st appearence in this book?

Well..., have you?

[sharky]

Both words sound the same and can be accepted as a romanization of those katakana.

I don't quite understand. How can it be either? Shouldn't it be one or the other? What Japanese word does the katakana represent? Does the katakana in this title represent a Japanese word or an English sounding word. What I mean is, are the characters trying to approximate the English word peace or piece, or do the characters represent a Japanese word in which case it must be one or the other but not both.

[edwin3060]

Exactly. Engrish can make it's way into publications. I'll double check the DVD liner notes though.

Not in this case.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I don't quite understand. How can it be either? Shouldn't it be one or the other? What Japanese word does the katakana represent? Does the katakana in this title represent a Japanese word or an English sounding word. What I mean is, are the characters trying to approximate the English word peace or piece, or do the characters represent a Japanese word in which case it must be one or the other but not both.

They aproximate the english words after how they sound. Since Peace and Piece are pronounced the same, they both become ピース　(piisu). Hence why it could have been either. It gets worse with more complicated words like メガロード(megaroodo) which can be either Megaroad or Megalord

[westfall]

I don't quite understand. How can it be either? Shouldn't it be one or the other? What Japanese word does the katakana represent? Does the katakana in this title represent a Japanese word or an English sounding word. What I mean is, are the characters trying to approximate the English word peace or piece, or do the characters represent a Japanese word in which case it must be one or the other but not both.

I apologize if what i'm about to say is not correct but it stems from the knowledge i have of Japanese, wich i have learned, what little i know, by myself.

The japanese symbols that represent words and/or ideas are Kanji. Katakana are used to transcribe foreign words fonetically, that is, by the way they sound and, as far as i know, don't hold any meaning by themselves.

In our writing Peace and Piece are writen diferently but they sound the same, or at least very close. When writing them fonetically both are written "pi" (read as in pee or pea - two other different words that sound the same) and "su" and therefore, in katakana, both are written ピース. (The "ー" is used to elongate the sound of the katakana it follows).

This is confirmed by the japanese wikipedia where you find this:

Peace（ピース）は、英語で「平和」を意味する。

Piece（ピース）は、同じく英語で「欠片」を意味する。

along with 6 other words writen the same way in katakana.

I hope i helped you instead of making you say to yourself "Why did i ask".

[westfall]

They aproximate the english words after how they sound. Since Peace and Piece are pronounced the same, they both become ピース　(piisu). Hence why it could have been either. It gets worse with more complicated words like メガロード(megaroodo) which can be either Megaroad or Megalord

You're better at explaining this stuff than me. I have to stop ranting

I never understood what is the name of that particular ship. But shouldn't it be "Megaload" instead of "Megalord"?

Though i guess they end up being written the same way... God, you gotta love Nihongo.

[VF-25 Messiah]

You're better at explaining this stuff than me. I have to stop ranting

I never understood what is the name of that particular ship. But shouldn't it be "Megaload" instead of "Megalord"?

Though i guess they end up being written the same way... God, you gotta love Nihongo.

Indeed, Megaload actually makes for a third a viable option

Its due to that the Japanese "R" (if it can be said to have such a thing), is somewhere between R and L in English and replacing both, as it were.

Also the r in lord, isn't at prominent so it simply becomes an enlongated vowel in the same way as road and load.

[sketchley]

And to throw the monkey wrench in:

"Perfect Memory" Pg 150: "SDF-2 Megalord" (written in romaji)

"Macross Chronicle" FB-UN-01a "SDF-2 Megaroad" (again written in romaji)

(though it should be noted that the former is of the (planned) battleship version, the latter is the emigration ship.)

[sketchley]

Not in this case.

And you are an authority on how non-native speakers of English romanize English, how?

[sketchley]

I don't quite understand. How can it be either?

Japanese and English have different ways of writing.

Shouldn't it be one or the other?

In general, one can determine the meaning by context. However, the word is in a title. Therefore, it could be one of the 6(?) or more English words with the same (or similar) sound.

What Japanese word does the katakana represent?

As it is a "borrowed" word from a foreign language, it could represent one of the 6 (?) or more English (or other language) words with the same (or similar) sound.

Does the katakana in this title represent a Japanese word or an English sounding word. What I mean is, are the characters trying to approximate the English word peace or piece, or do the characters represent a Japanese word in which case it must be one or the other but not both.

In general, katakana is used to write foreign "borrowed" words. It is fairly safe to presume that the title is composed of foreign "borrowed" words. But it may be presumptuous of us to automatically assume that they are English words.

[Gubaba]

And to throw the monkey wrench in:

"Perfect Memory" Pg 150: "SDF-2 Megalord" (written in romaji)

"Macross Chronicle" FB-UN-01a "SDF-2 Megaroad" (again written in romaji)

(though it should be noted that the former is of the (planned) battleship version, the latter is the emigration ship.)

That's the one that drives me crazy.

More than "Focker," more than "Vrlitwhai" and "Quamzin," more than "Michael"...because I can't tell if "Megaroad" and "Megalord" are supposed to be two different names or not. My feeling is "not," but I have no way to tell.

Trying to find "official" romanizations is most often an exercise doomed to failure. Especially with an '80s anime.

[sketchley]

One thing as well, that I forgot to add, is that the writers may be aware of the similarities in sound, and may be deliberately making a pun:

last peace / lost peace / lost piece / last piece

[sharky]

One thing as well, that I forgot to add, is that the writers may be aware of the similarities in sound, and may be deliberately making a pun:

last peace / lost peace / lost piece / last piece

That's an interesting thought as well. I personally like to think "Lost Peace" makes the most sense.

Thanks to those who have enlightened me a little more. Now I understand that it could be either.

[azrael]

The vol. 6 DVD/Blu-Ray liner notes cover says, in English, "Lost Peace". That's my answer and I'm sticking to it.

[edwin3060]

And you are an authority on how non-native speakers of English romanize English, how?

Because we have two official sources here that both say "Lost Peace" ? Until someone finds an official work that contradicts this there is no reason to believe the fansubs.

[Gubaba]

Because we have two official sources here that both say "Lost Peace" ? Until someone finds an official work that contradicts this there is no reason to believe the fansubs.

Erm...the fansubs said "Lost Peace." The Official Fan Book was the one that said "Lost Piece."

[westfall]

Erm...the fansubs said "Lost Peace." The Official Fan Book was the one that said "Lost Piece."

I'm starting to feel guilty for bringing this up, never thought it would turn into a shooting match

Yes, the Official Fan Book has "Piece" but it also calls episode 23 "True Bigin" instead of "Begin".

The DVD/Blu-Rays have "Lost Peace" in the liner notes AND the menus themselves, and as i said before, greater care is probably put into those when it comes to typos and stuff like that. The fansubs also have peace but can´t be considered for the purposes of what is right or wrong.

One thing as well, that I forgot to add, is that the writers may be aware of the similarities in sound, and may be deliberately making a pun:

last peace / lost peace / lost piece / last piece

Agree that it may be a pun between "Peace" and "Piece" but stick with "Lost". "Last" doesn't sound the same and is written with a different katakana, check the titles of episode 15, "Lost Peace"(or whatever) and episode 23 "Last Frontier".

That's the one that drives me crazy.

More than "Focker," more than "Vrlitwhai" and "Quamzin," more than "Michael"...because I can't tell if "Megaroad" and "Megalord" are supposed to be two different names or not. My feeling is "not," but I have no way to tell.

Trying to find "official" romanizations is most often an exercise doomed to failure. Especially with an '80s anime.

Yeah, that's so true. Funny thing in the case of "Michael", they had Alto Calling him "Mikail"(or something) for most of the episodes, in sort of a derrogatory way, while everyone else calls him "Michel" wich is a French name, wich seems to be, officialy, where his family came from. But when you analise the katakana in the name, it reads ミハエル wich sounds like Mi-Ha-E-Ru (Japanese intonation, please) wich is closer to "Mikail" than to "Michael". Here, i think, the typo was on the production company's part since, if they wanted to call the character "Michel Blanc" they should have writen it ミシェル ブラン (Mi-She-Ru Bu-Ra-N).

[sketchley]

Because we have two official sources here that both say "Lost Peace" ? Until someone finds an official work that contradicts this there is no reason to believe the fansubs.

1) you didn't phrase it that way in your original statement.

2) what Gubaba said.

[sketchley]

Yes, the Official Fan Book has "Piece" but it also calls episode 23 "True Bigin" instead of "Begin".

Looks like they went with something closer to the actual Japanese titles (any English speaker worth his or her salt would know the correct title "true beginning"; which raises the question of the title being a mistake, or is actually a different word altogether. Which brings into focus a point that I thought about on the way to work: Japanese use of borrowed words is oft different from the way English speakers use them (not to mention the different ways that English speakers from different English speaking countries (or parts of the same country) use them)).

The DVD/Blu-Rays have "Lost Peace" in the liner notes AND the menus themselves, and as i said before, greater care is probably put into those when it comes to typos and stuff like that. The fansubs also have peace but can´t be considered for the purposes of what is right or wrong.

Not attempting to dilute things further here: couldn't it be possible that the people who made the menus and title cards are not the same as the actual writers? Couldn't it be possible that the romanization of the titles are different or not meaning the same as the original writer intended? Again, not attempting to further disrupt this discussion - as I don't bother with how these things translate anymore, and just romanize the names

Agree that it may be a pun between "Peace" and "Piece" but stick with "Lost". "Last" doesn't sound the same and is written with a different katakana, check the titles of episode 15, "Lost Peace"(or whatever) and episode 23 "Last Frontier".

I was making a point about the potential of puns from the sounds more than anything else. (僕は国語ができるから・・・カタカナ単語の授業が要らん。)

Yeah, that's so true. Funny thing in the case of "Michael", they had Alto Calling him "Mikail"(or something) for most of the episodes, in sort of a derrogatory way, while everyone else calls him "Michel" wich is a French name, wich seems to be, officialy, where his family came from. But when you analise the katakana in the name, it reads ミハエル wich sounds like Mi-Ha-E-Ru (Japanese intonation, please) wich is closer to "Mikail" than to "Michael". Here, i think, the typo was on the production company's part since, if they wanted to call the character "Michel Blanc" they should have writen it ミシェル ブラン (Mi-She-Ru Bu-Ra-N).

This has been talked to great extent previously in these forums. I recommend looking them up, as they can be interesting reads at times.

Edited February 21, 2009 by sketchley

[westfall]

I guess each can read and ear what they want. As Mr. Lewis Black once said, "We are all snow flakes".

I am now officialy withdrawing from this dicussion.

Funny enough is that, when i made my original post, i was a lot more interested in knowing what you guys thought of Ranka's Dad (if the guy is her dad, at all) than the whole Piece/Peace thing.

In the end, that was passed to the background, torn into pieces and we haven't had peace ever since.

OK, NOW i'm out.

So... Ranka's Dad... GO!

[sketchley]

Funny enough is that, when i made my original post, i was a lot more interested in knowing what you guys thought of Ranka's Dad (if the guy is her dad, at all) (...)

Speaking of that, what was the page number?

[westfall]

Speaking of that, what was the page number?

page 55

[sketchley]

Text says: "The family of Ranka. The father has appeared in a flashback only for a moment (the face was not visible)."