With my mind WIDE open...

[Killer Robot]

(Basara = Bono)

You might be onto something, but Bono's been accused often enough of putting more effort into being recognized as a philanthropist than he is into actually making a difference too.

The whole idea behind Bassara is the triumph of idealism over pragmatism. Which is what makes Macross 7 such a great children's show, but probably doesn't endear itself to some people out there. The basic premise is, if you are sure your idea is right, then just keep plugging away at it and eventually things will work out alright and you'll be a hero. Of course, if everybody was a Bassara, society would collapse and anarchy would result. Why do people actually like him? Probably because he represents that indomitable inner child that everybody has, the one that insists that the world would be perfect if everyone did things your way.

I see this as valid and important, and will also add that his rebellious nature and disregard for convention is even more of a standout in a rigidly conformist society like Japan. I just think he was taken too far: in a series that is fundamentally about people coming together Basara feels more like a person who stands still and lets the universe come to his song, and if it doesn't he sings the same song only louder. I think, or at least hope, that wasn't the full intent and purpose, but it's how the ink finally hit the cel.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Killer Robot

[RedWolf]

Because it is those around him that has to have character development not Basara.

In terms of protagonists Macross 7 and Macross Frontier are polar opposites.

Though he is saddened by the loss of life Basara does not give in to negative feelings.

Alto easily gives in to this thus is easily manipulated.

Basara recognizes all living beings. For Alto if it does not have a human genetic make up it is them or us.

It is hard for Alto to make that leap of faith. Basara has plenty of that. Even when faced with the scariest creatures in existence.

In contrast to Hikaru. Hikaru was a pacifist to begin with. Like Alto he joined the military to protect those he loves.

Every time he kills a piece of him dies. Even if the Zentradi are aliens they are still human.

It is their humanity that convinced Hikaru to vouch for the Zentradi asylum.

[VFTF1]

Redwolf speaks truth on all fronts.

Pete

[Nexx Stalker]

(Basara = Bono)

I think the word you were searching for was "John Lennon"

[edwin3060]

Because it is those around him that has to have character development not Basara.

That's like saying a child can live in his dream world and have his imaginary friends and believe in santa as long as he wants-- but all children have to grow up sometime. The only reason Bassara doesn't do this is because of deus ex machina, as has been stated before.

In contrast to Hikaru. Hikaru was a pacifist to begin with. Like Alto he joined the military to protect those he loves.

Every time he kills a piece of him dies. Even if the Zentradi are aliens they are still human.

People who don't feel that are called sociopaths in peace time and either war heroes or war criminals in war time.

Ultimately, to me Bassara embodies the kind of hippie "I can do what I want, regardless of the consequences" attitude-- which is great, unless you're in the real world. The reason why the military was so pissed with him, afterall, wasn't just because he was there-- it's because he was there and interfering, messing up their formations, causing people to hesitate and ultimately causing more casualties, at least at the start. As the military, they also had an obligation to protect him regardless of his own thoughts about the issue--which would suck up manpower and may have resulted in needless deaths. As a fantasy, Bassara is a nice one--but I don't think that Bassara's fans have (like him) thought through to the consequences of his actions. Afterall, his kind of attitude is the exact same mindset that megalomaniacs and dictators have.

[VFTF1]

Ultimately, to me Bassara embodies the kind of hippie "I can do what I want, regardless of the consequences" attitude-- which is great, unless you're in the real world. The reason why the military was so pissed with him, afterall, wasn't just because he was there-- it's because he was there and interfering, messing up their formations, causing people to hesitate and ultimately causing more casualties, at least at the start. As the military, they also had an obligation to protect him regardless of his own thoughts about the issue--which would suck up manpower and may have resulted in needless deaths. As a fantasy, Bassara is a nice one--but I don't think that Bassara's fans have (like him) thought through to the consequences of his actions. Afterall, his kind of attitude is the exact same mindset that megalomaniacs and dictators have.

Well - with all due respect, I disagree. Here's why:

1) Basara does NOT embody the hippie "I can do what I want regardless of the consequences" attitude, because he does only what he believes is right, not what he "wants." There is a difference. His actions are dictated by his desires - sure. But what are those desires? Are they arbitrary? Are they unthinking passions? No. They are, as Redwolf pointed out, the desire to show irrational (in the sense of non-pragmatic) love - the desire to save lives and bring love, happiness and fulfillment to others (alien and human). This is not just a hippie who is a moral relativist and "does what he wants man." This is a profoundly moral person - like a Priest who goes into battle with a bible, instead of a gun, and who doesn't care that people are getting shot and killed all around him - he's going to read them their last rights. He's going to hold a mortally wounded and suffering soldier and say "listen to my religion" basically - and try to convince that soldier to repent of sins before he dies.

That is the analogy to Basara as well.

2) Oh, poor soldiers - Bassara is messing up their formation and getting them killed. Boo hoo. If anything this notion is a fantasy. War is chaos - war is utter complete total chaos. All formations are messed up the minute the battle begins. Commanders and soldiers survive by luck, accident or instinct - perhaps less so in minor air battles between very small numbers of jets - but in M7 we had huge fleets duking it out - it was WWI trench warfare in the void of space. There really isn't any "messing up of formations" going on due to Basara. There are people getting killed in a chaotic situation that Bassara is trying to stop in order to save their lives.

Now - I don't mean to demean either soldiers or the instinct to protect those who you love. I just think that Bassara is also trying to protect people's lives and protect those he loves (all of humanity actually). His methods are non-violence.

This is not a fantasy. In the real world, non-violent protest overthrew a nuclear power that had more weapons than the biggest empires in history (aka the USSR) - just to give an example. There are plenty of other examples. Non-violent action often is more powerful than bullets and formations of soldiers because ultimately what motivates people are ideas and truth - and if the cause you are fighting for is noble and true then you really don't need bullets to convince your enemy - you need a way of showing him.

Yes- of course - there will always be psychopaths and tyranical people who are cruel and evil and "do what they want" - and yes we will always need soldiers with guns (or variable mecha) to protect us from these types of people.

But no one is born with a sign on his forehead that says "Unrepentent evil bastard" - and so long as there is a chance to turning these people to culture - it has to be tried.

Pete

[badboy00z]

Basara was annoying, but I liked him alot of times just as I disliked him. My favorite would have to be when Basara fired the humongous speaker pods at Gepelnich's ship and doing the Holy Lonely Light intro SHOUT.

BOMBAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

I find it funny that through out the whole show he didn't remove the speaker pod from the screen.

Also I just re watched over half the series on youtube. Lol. Where can I find the M7 OST? Can't find torrents of it....

[DarkReaper]

I always wondered how basaras speaker pods had no problem penetrating even the hardest armored valkyrie while normal armor piercing bullets just ricocheted off. UN spacy should have just put bombs in there instead of speakers and issued them to the troops.

Btw, was it ever revealed how lovelock could afford maintenance and repair costs on the VF-19. I mean, prior contacts in the army only get you so far.

Edited January 28, 2009 by DarkReaper

[adrianop]

Btw, was it ever revealed how lovelock could afford maintenance and repair costs on the VF-19. I mean, prior contacts in the army only get you so far.

I think he had the only army contact needed, the secret support of Capt. Maximillian Jenius. Then later on when it was confirmed that the power of song affected the Protodevln, they made Sound Force public.

[Dangard Ace]

Iirc Max was the shadow sponser for fire bomber. Been a few years and I have no yearning to watch it again. As for formations having no use/effect in combat after engagement, I disagree.

[Gubaba]

The reason why the military was so pissed with him, afterall, wasn't just because he was there-- it's because he was there and interfering, messing up their formations, causing people to hesitate and ultimately causing more casualties, at least at the start.

I don't remember that episode...which one was it?

[RedWolf]

Actually Barton was pissed because Basara wasn't bowing to military authority. Barton was douche enough to endanger the colony just to satisfy his ego.

Gamlin was irritated at Basara because a civilian has no place in a battlefield. But he was intrigued as to why Basara has the latest equipment. When he inquired his computer got fried. Meaning top secret way above his rank.

Edited January 28, 2009 by RedWolf

[Gubaba]

Actually Barton was pissed because Basara wasn't bowing to military authority. Barton was douche enough to endanger the colony just to satisfy his ego.

Gamlin was irritated at Basara because a civilian has no place in a battlefield. But he was intrigued as to why Basara has the latest equipment. When he inquired his computer got fried. Meaning top secret way above his rank.

Yeah, but edwin3060 said people got killed because Basara was on the battlefield. And I don't think that ever happened in the show.

[Kelsain]

I think the word you were searching for was "John Lennon"

Fair enough, that works too. But it begs the question:

[akt_m]

I always wondered how basaras speaker pods had no problem penetrating even the hardest armored valkyrie while normal armor piercing bullets just ricocheted off. UN spacy should have just put bombs in there instead of speakers and issued them to the troops.

That was one of the lamest things in M7, a gunpod that fires speakers and carefull enough to not kill anyone.

One funny moment i remember was one Max was at the B7 bar (probably there i don't know for sure) and the barman asks "pretty young huh???" then he says "its my daughter".

Edited January 28, 2009 by akt_m

[JB0]

I always wondered how basaras speaker pods had no problem penetrating even the hardest armored valkyrie while normal armor piercing bullets just ricocheted off. UN spacy should have just put bombs in there instead of speakers and issued them to the troops.

I'd just ignored it most of the time and assumed they stuck to the armor and transmitted to the inside through vibration. It made me feel better.

[UN Spacy]

1. Do you guys know where I can order the Macross 7 DVD set?

2. Was Central Anime the best choice for fansubbers?

[dizman]

That was one of the lamest things in M7, a gunpod that fires speakers and carefull enough to not kill anyone.

Now this is why people have such problems with Mac7, they try to bring logic and reason into a series which clearly has no logic or reason at all .

[badboy00z]

I think he had the only army contact needed, the secret support of Capt. Maximillian Jenius. Then later on when it was confirmed that the power of song affected the Protodevln, they made Sound Force public.

While it was never mentioned in M7 as to how Basara got the Fire Valkyrie, it was the UN military who "gave" it to Ray and then to Basara. How else can a civilian get a hold of a top of the line fighter that's modified with speakers? After the war ended the UN realized the potential of song/ culture. Thus Project M(inmei) was in the works. Ray gives Basara the 19. With Basara being Basara he doesn't question why and just does his thing in battle. Those were I guess open experiments to see how far Basara can take it. Eventually it was proven that song can affect the enemy.

[badboy00z]

I'd just ignored it most of the time and assumed they stuck to the armor and transmitted to the inside through vibration. It made me feel better.

It clearly showed that the pods penetrates the cockpit and seals of it with foam. And I've never seen the bullets that bounces off and I just finished re watching the whole thing.

[dreamweaver13]

Fair enough, that works too. But it begs the question:

LOL!

But Bono could still work... if it's this version of Bono from Southpark:

And if you've seen this episode, you'll know what i'm sayin'.

[DarkReaper]

It clearly showed that the pods penetrates the cockpit and seals of it with foam. And I've never seen the bullets that bounces off and I just finished re watching the whole thing.

Gamlin always had to use his laser pod to kill the commando valkyrie because normal bullets couldn't kill it fast enough.

Speaker pods just penetrate with every hit right into the cockpit.

[JB0]

It clearly showed that the pods penetrates the cockpit and seals of it with foam. And I've never seen the bullets that bounces off and I just finished re watching the whole thing.

I told you I ignored that because it made me feel better.

Gamlin always had to use his laser pod to kill the commando valkyrie because normal bullets couldn't kill it fast enough.

Speaker pods just penetrate with every hit right into the cockpit.

Gamlin's just using flashy moves because Basara brings out the attention-whore in him.

[Keith]

OMGF there are other Basara supporters now? When the hell did that happen?

And for the record, Yoko = Sivil (mind you Sivil is hotter, but is still an older woman who is fond of screaming in public, but seriously, I love Yoko

I always took Basara as more of a combo between John Lennon & Jimi Hendrix, as out of the 2, Jimi would be the far more likely one to jump into the middle of a battle & start singing.

Project M (assumedly short for Project Minmay) was in not so many words explained as being concieved of by Max. He sponsored Dr. Chiba's research in hopes that it would lead to peaceful resolutions. After Stephan died, Ray wandered around drunkedly until he came across Basara singing to mountains. This lead to a similar ephiphany of someone being able to peacefully solve disputes without the risk of friends dying, but he didn't know what to do with him. He called up Kinryu, who had been assigned to the M7 fleet, Kinryu talked to Max, who assumedly put the two idea's together, and there you have teh fully active Project M, just waiting for the chance to be tested. Max ok'd Ray to train Basara as a pilot, Chiba assumedly modified the VF-19 design, and all was go. It was always a sanctioned action.

The notion that Basara got anyone killed on the battlefield is idiotic. While it's a mystery why he wasn't given a Friendly IFF code, showing as an additional target on a battlefield of hostiles woiuldn't make much of a difference. Being allowed to broadcast on military channels looks to be intentional, since aggressors wouldn't have been on just one side, and as was shown, he didn't play over normal comm traffic.

As for why Speaker pods penetraded where normal rounds didn't, the damn things had burrowing ability, as well as independant propulsion. They were more like missiles than pod rounds.

And indeed, Basara may be many things, but a hippie isn't one of them. He had just as much to sing at an enemy, as any other pilot had to shoot at an enemy. And as was shown in the end, not even reaction warheads were effective against an enemy that can fold them right back into your ship. An unconventional enemy requires unconventional means.

[VFTF1]

OMGF there are other Basara supporters now? When the hell did that happen?

I'm actually also somewhat surprised by how even the Basara detractors are making well concieved arguments rather than just "look at those ass chap pants! (or whatever they were called

Pete

[RedWolf]

Project M (assumedly short for Project Minmay) was in not so many words explained as being concieved of by Max. He sponsored Dr. Chiba's research in hopes that it would lead to peaceful resolutions. After Stephan died, Ray wandered around drunkedly until he came across Basara singing to mountains. This lead to a similar ephiphany of someone being able to peacefully solve disputes without the risk of friends dying, but he didn't know what to do with him. He called up Kinryu, who had been assigned to the M7 fleet, Kinryu talked to Max, who assumedly put the two idea's together, and there you have teh fully active Project M, just waiting for the chance to be tested. Max ok'd Ray to train Basara as a pilot, Chiba assumedly modified the VF-19 design, and all was go. It was always a sanctioned action.

I think Project M was in the mothballs for 30 years. Chiba did mention Project M was Barton's baby project previously and he only got back to it.

Originally Project M was meant for Zentradi fleets but lately it is rogue Zentradi like those seen in M3, Plus and VF-X who are cultured , war like but still cultured , that are a threat.

Encounters like those with Chlore's uncultured Meltran armada is very rare or didn't happen up to that point.

Barton's mentality is influenced by how Vrlitwhai used music as a winning battle tactic.

Also it is hinted that Basara isn't the first singing Valkyrie pilot. The Zolan singer known as Maria Velasquez-Holly was known to pilot a civilian VF-1A and VT-1C.

Basara is the first proof that the Minmay strategy wasn't a fluke.

In fact a year later UN Spacy won over a rogue Zentradi forces because of the help of the idol group Milky Dolls. Using the same Sound Energy Coverter tech Chiba pioneered. They were not as bulky as they used to be as it can be worn as dresses.

Not to mention Leon proposed to Frontier's President Howard Glass if they would use a song strategy on the Vajra before either Ranka and Sheryl were discovered.

Of course Grace O'Connor is the only bitch known to turn the tables on Humans with the Minmay Attack.

[edwin3060]

Of course Grace O'Connor is the only bitch known to turn the tables on Humans with the Minmay Attack.

She might be a bitch, but she's a smart one! and sexy in a dominatrix kind of way

[Bri]

<snip>

Ultimately, to me Bassara embodies the kind of hippie "I can do what I want, regardless of the consequences" attitude-- which is great, unless you're in the real world. The reason why the military was so pissed with him, afterall, wasn't just because he was there-- it's because he was there and interfering, messing up their formations, causing people to hesitate and ultimately causing more casualties, at least at the start. As the military, they also had an obligation to protect him regardless of his own thoughts about the issue--which would suck up manpower and may have resulted in needless deaths. As a fantasy, Bassara is a nice one--but I don't think that Bassara's fans have (like him) thought through to the consequences of his actions. Afterall, his kind of attitude is the exact same mindset that megalomaniacs and dictators have.

As a fictional character Basara can mean any number of things to different people. You state that you see him as a hippie that endangers the lives of soldiers and himself and his actions only work through the plot. Which is fine off course, as everyones interpretations are their own.

However you wrongfully assume that all Basara fans share your view of him and see that same hippie and support his actions. The accusation that the fans don't think about his actions and by association condone the actions of megalomanics and dictators is both offensive and smells of a lack of critical thinking on your own part. The singular focus Basara displays is an a common character trait in people who have made critical breakthoughs in science, medicine, exploration, sports, music and politics, some would even say it's a neccesity.

[VFTF1]

However you wrongfully assume that all Basara fans share your view of him and see that same hippie and support his actions. The accusation that the fans don't think about his actions and by association condone the actions of megalomanics and dictators is both offensive and smells of a lack of critical thinking on your own part. The singular focus Basara displays is an a common character trait in people who have made critical breakthoughs in science, medicine, exploration, sports, music and politics, some would even say it's a neccesity.

YEAH! And you smell like poo poo!

But we still love you, especially me, since you and I share a love for Katsudon

Pete

[Sketch]

BOMBAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

I never did understand all the hate thrown at M7.

I attribute it to Robotech fans who think (incorrectly) that Macross is serious business.

Come on people; It's a show about a hot-blooded dude who flys around in a giant transforming robot jet and shoots rock'n'roll laser beams at space monsters. Just look at the ridiculous over-analyzing of Basara that is going on in this very thread. You guys should step out of your current mindsets and read this thread, it's hilarious.

ps. I find it ironic that Macrossworld is one of the few places I've seen with rampant M7 hate. On general-purpose mecha boards, Macross 7 is widely regarded as top-tier and/or required viewing.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Sketch

[Bri]

Hush you Rock and Roll and Jets are serious bussiness, so a guy who flies a Red jet while jamming a guitar is very serious bussines!

[JB0]

ps. I find it ironic that Macrossworld is one of the few places I've seen with rampant M7 hate. On general-purpose mecha boards, Macross 7 is widely regarded as top-tier and/or required viewing.

To be fair, in my experience a lot of the anime community thinks Gundam Wing was a thoughtful masterpiece.

I LIKED Macross 7, but I wouldn't say it's top-tier or required viewing. Actually, I wouldn't say that about ANY Macross except for the original TV series and DYRL(order depends on if they're more focused on eye-candy or writing).

[Lacerta]

I'm finally done with all of the Encores and Dynamite 7...wow, that's quite a long haul, I must say!

The encores did shed a bit of light on Basara's past, but I guess it didn't endear himself much more than he had already, but I did end up becoming a Fire Bomber fan as a result. Dynamite 7, however... Perhaps it was the lack of the songs I enjoyed in the series...the fact that it centered on Basara...the weird potential violating of Mylene ("Gubaba, you stay outside"...I knew something was up.) You can't knock Basara for giving up though, I just wish he'd let his friends help him out.

All in all, I'm glad I finished it...Now I feel like Ozma Lee sitting here listening to "My Soul For You" on my computer. Thanks everyone for replying and discussing it with me.

BOMBAAAAA!!!

[badboy00z]

Where can I find Fire Bomber songs? Can't seem to find the M7 OSTs.

[DarkReaper]

http://www.macrosshare.com/