Morpheus Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 I'm happy with Frontier, but quite upset with the merchandises since I can't afford to buy all of them. I love and curse you Kawamori.... Quote
unclechopchop Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 I'm happy with Frontier, but quite upset with the merchandises since I can't afford to buy all of them. I love and curse you Kawamori.... You should check out the VF-100 line that is coming up. They look pretty sick, and are somewhat affordable at about $50.00 $60.00. Have faith. You'll get some of them in time. Quote
Gubaba Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 I've been getting bashed alot lately, so maybe I'm on the defensive. I always took Macross super serious when I was younger. I just wanted everything after to be just perfect. Granted, that probably can't be possible, but I just though some of the past efforts were really really good. By the way, why does everybody hate Macross Zero? I personally thought that it was great , due to its realism (Yeah flying robots...right, I know). It just felt a little bit harder than the others. DYRL was pretty hard, and I thought the grittiness of Zero was on the same lines. So love me or hate me, I'm just asking some questions. Thanks to everybody that is trying to help. I liked Zero a lot, but I don't have the aversion to "environmental themes" that a lot of people here seem to. I think the flying rocks and insects moulting and camouflaged octopi pissed a lot of people off. Oh, and the ending being pretty weird. That bugged people, too. However, I think it's impossible to dislike the action scenes in it. It's, like, against the laws of physics or something. As for your comments about Mac7 and MacF...well, ALL Macross has music as a major plot point. I like 7, but I can see why it's a little much for some. Did you watch the WHOLE series, though? Often (but not always), people come away from the series liking it much more than they did going into it. At least in Frontier, pink beams didn't shoot out of Ranka's mouth when she sang at the Zentradi...the way it was presented, it wasn't much different than a Minmay-style culture shock. But if you are that averse to any reference to Mac7, you'll absolutely HATE the music in Frontier episode 17... Quote
Graham Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 For the 1/60 DX? I was confused and thought it was going to be for the 1/72 model kit. Nope, for the DX. There will be two different Gallia IV sets, I forget exactly what the come with. I think one comes with missiles a Ghost and the second comes with the speaker pods and a little Ranka figure and possibly a Fold Boooster as well. From what I remember, these will be mail order exclusives and there will be a coupon you need to cut out from the VF-25G and RVF-25 boxes to order them. Graham Quote
azrael Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Are we talking about Frontier or 7 or Zero? Cuz the topic title say Frontier and yet people are complaining about 7, Zero and going on a tangent with the 1/60 DXs toys, which has its own thread in the Toys area. Quote
edwin3060 Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 From what I remember, these will be mail order exclusives and there will be a coupon you need to cut out from the VF-25G and RVF-25 boxes to order them. Graham Deculture! How do those of us outside of Japan get ahold of them then? Quote
unclechopchop Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 Are we talking about Frontier or 7 or Zero? Cuz the topic title say Frontier and yet people are complaining about 7, Zero and going on a tangent with the 1/60 DXs toys, which has its own thread in the Toys area. They all have something to do with one another.It's just that some people are referencing other series as a benchmark. They aren't going on any different tangents. They are simply pointing out some of the aliknesses and differences and what they do and don't like. It's what I asked for. The main subject is Frontier, but it was me making the comparissons in the first place. Blame me if you want. I just wanted peoples views. I am very interested in what people have to say. By the way, who referenced the DX toy line? If they did, it really didn't take over any subject. Take it easy. Quote
unclechopchop Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 I liked Zero a lot, but I don't have the aversion to "environmental themes" that a lot of people here seem to. I think the flying rocks and insects moulting and camouflaged octopi pissed a lot of people off. Oh, and the ending being pretty weird. That bugged people, too. However, I think it's impossible to dislike the action scenes in it. It's, like, against the laws of physics or something. As for your comments about Mac7 and MacF...well, ALL Macross has music as a major plot point. I like 7, but I can see why it's a little much for some. Did you watch the WHOLE series, though? Often (but not always), people come away from the series liking it much more than they did going into it. At least in Frontier, pink beams didn't shoot out of Ranka's mouth when she sang at the Zentradi...the way it was presented, it wasn't much different than a Minmay-style culture shock. But if you are that averse to any reference to Mac7, you'll absolutely HATE the music in Frontier episode 17... I have to admit, there was some stuff that was out there. I just looked past it because the series really struck me as being more hard-core. Yeah it kind of got wierd or lame near the end, but every series seems to have their quirks. For me, in macross 7, it was the playing the instruments thing. In Frontier, it was the speakers on the VF, as well as the singing at times. I just don't know why people couldn't look past some things in Zero, but in Frontier they seem to let everything by. I guess it just comes with the territory. Maybe that's why everybody hates Zero. Because there wasn't too much of the singing as well as the pop singer. It was just different. You know what. Maybe I should give 7 another shot. Zero was just more serious, and I liked that. There was nothing that really cheese in it. Granted there was some, but just a slice. Not a whole wedge. Also (I know I'm gonna get hung for this one) I don't think the animation is all that in Frontier(with the exception of the Valkrie animation). Plus and Zero were done waay better in my opinion. Hopefully the Frontier movie will be top notch! Quote
edwin3060 Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Zero was just more serious, and I liked that. There was nothing that really cheese in it. Granted there was some, but just a slice. Not a whole wedge. Also (I know I'm gonna get hung for this one) I don't think the animation is all that in Frontier(with the exception of the Valkrie animation). Plus and Zero were done waay better in my opinion. Hopefully the Frontier movie will be top notch! I'd agree about the animation, but keep in mind that they have months in between the release of each episode of OVA and 1 week in between each episode in the broadcast series. All together, keeping in mind the timeline of Plus-->7-->0-->Frontier, I think that the animation quality didn't drop as much from Zero to Frontier as it did from Plus to 7. Quote
Bri Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 You can't compare OVA animation to what is done in television series. Plus and Zero had way more time and money to burn per episode. IIRC Mac Plus had one of the highest animation budgets for an OVA in history. Frontier did really wel in the animation department but at times they (had to) cut corners. The debate between those who love the serious side macross versus those who enjoy the comedy aswell can go on forever without either side going to budge. Taking a stand and venting an opinion is going to start a lively debate, but if you can't take the heat don't post it. As for me I'll have the Mac Cheese please Quote
Mr March Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 I've been getting bashed alot lately, so maybe I'm on the defensive. I always took Macross super serious when I was younger. I just wanted everything after to be just perfect. Granted, that probably can't be possible, but I just though some of the past efforts were really really good. By the way, why does everybody hate Macross Zero? I personally thought that it was great , due to its realism (Yeah flying robots...right, I know). It just felt a little bit harder than the others. DYRL was pretty hard, and I thought the grittiness of Zero was on the same lines. So love me or hate me, I'm just asking some questions. Thanks to everybody that is trying to help. Well, Macross Frontier is a generally liked and well reviewed series, so those critical of it will have a tougher time than if if they were critical of something like Macross 7 Best not to take Macross too seriously; only take seriously your love of Macross Not everyone hates Macross Zero, but it is a weaker entry in the franchise, IMO. Aside from the obvious story problems with Macross Zero (poor ending, uninteresting characters, being a prequel with foreknowledge of the outcome, uninteresting mysticism, etc) I personally disliked the CGI because it was jarring with the 2D animation. The CGI animation was detailed for sure, but it looked terribly artificial because of it's lack of physics. The CGI looked small and felt like I was watching model planes on strings. The machines lacked weight and believable motion. In Frontier, the more toon-shaded, lower polygon count models actually felt more appropriate and merged better with 2D character animation. Not only that, but the scene composition in Macross Frontier was far better. The animators achieved more of that signature "anime" style action with the CGI in Macross Frontier, something that was lacking in the style and visuals of Macross Zero. Anyway, don't fret, you're doing okay so far. Just share your thoughts and let everyone do the same. You'll have a good time here. Quote
VFTF1 Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 . Maybe that's why everybody hates Zero. Yeah - I agree with what Mr. March said. But I would also maybe recomend not writing such blanket statements as the one above. It's one thing to state your opinion - no body is going to "hate" you for it. The worst possible thing that could happen is that I'll just start posting youtube links to Bassara's songs and respond to you by saying "listen to my song!" But, when you make the above kind of generalization - you're kind of fishing for people to get a little bit upset. It would be like me writing "and Macross 7 is of course, as EVERYBODY knows and agrees, the best anime series in the history of the universe." People with strong feelings to the contrary will feel hurt - not because they read something they disagree with, but because - worse - they get the feeling that their very existence isn't acknowledged My point is: I've not problem with people holding the opinion that Zero and 7 stink. Fine. But it's not nice to write that everyone agrees with this opinion because to say so pretends that nobody exists who might like these shows very much. I actually honestly disagree with the majority not just on general points but on just about every point made in terms of criticism of Zero and 7. I'm not really going to repeat myself for the twelve millionth time since I've written at length about it in the Zero and 7 threads - but I'll just say: "everybody" criticizes the ending in Zero. I think the ending was the best part. Everybody criticizes the music in 7. I think the music was what made it a brilliant series. And on it goes. What "everbody" sees as the worse, I see as the best. Again - it's cool to disagree - but let's acknowledge that other opinions exist instead of just saying "everybody hates X" X lovers are out there Pete Quote
Mr March Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Somewhat agree. To be fair, saying; "Not everyone hates X" can be as misleading as "Why does everyone hate X?" Even "Meet The Spartans" had fans But seriously, each of us likes something that isn't popular and hates something that is popular. More pointedly, there's really no answer to; "Why does everyone hate X" because the question can't be answered. Most people respond with a critique, but it's just the response of one person, not "everyone". Perhaps a better question would be "Why was Macross Zero so poorly received by most fans and critics?" or "Why was Macross Frontier so well received by most fans and critics?", or you can even debate that by asking: "Who says they were?" Dealing with fans on the net, with everyone and their dog asking why Akira/Ghost In The Shell/Macross/Neon Genesis Evangelion/Gundam/Cowboy Bebop is popular, one must accept that people will like entertainment that one doesn't and one may like entertainment that people hate. Or to be more cynical, just accept that people have the right to like crap Quote
miriya Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I love Macross Zero. It is one of my favorite macross series. More than Macross Plus for sure! Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I love Macross Zero. It is one of my favorite macross series. More than Macross Plus for sure! "Certainly not." -Isamu Dyson, Macross Plus I liked 'em both, equally. I do that a lot, I know, but it's impossible for me to pick. Quote
dreamweaver13 Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I liked 'em both, equally. I do that a lot, I know, but it's impossible for me to pick. Heaven help you if you end up in a Hikaru Ichijo situation. Quote
dreamweaver13 Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Again - it's cool to disagree - but let's acknowledge that other opinions exist instead of just saying "everybody hates X" X lovers are out there Somewhat agree. To be fair, saying; "Not everyone hates X" can be as misleading as "Why does everyone hate X?" Even "Meet The Spartans" had fans Hey wait.... ... I liked X.... Edited January 21, 2009 by dreamweaver13 Quote
Save Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Aside from the Griffin attack in Memories of Zero I'm happier than a pig in $h1t about frontier. I'm pretty sure if I had not been living in Japan working in Akihabara for the past 3 year I probably would only like some of Frontier. Japanese Otaku life prepared me for Frontier and I loved it! For a TV series not funded by any of the major TV stations nothing looked better on TV in 2008 in my opinion. The Speaker Pods were only used in one episode of Frontier and only long enough for the purpose of having them in the episode, which actually made sense to why they were used. Nod to Mac7 but Speaker Pods were all over Mac7, wasn't the first episode titled Speaker Pod? Edited January 21, 2009 by Save Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Heaven help you if you end up in a Hikaru Ichijo situation. I dunno, Alto worked through it: He became a Mormon and picked both! Then, he got everyone else! Polygamy: Alto's God will make it legal! Edited January 21, 2009 by SchizophrenicMC Quote
Killer Robot Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 The Speaker Pods were only used in one episode of Frontier and only long enough for the purpose of having them in the episode, which actually made sense to why they were used. Nod to Mac7 but Speaker Pods were all over Mac7, wasn't the first episode titled Speaker Pod? It's also worth noting that in Frontier the speaker pods were nothing more than speakers that attached to VF hardpoints and otherwise just amplified sound in air like any normal speaker. In Macross 7 you had the gunpod that shot speakers, which were apparently more accurate than bullets and still worked fine after penetrating heavy armor; an enormous rocket-propelled speaker designed to totally rock out capital ships by the same principle, and giant speaker pod drones that launched separately from the ship to meet combiner style with valkyries and amplify the pilot's song-driven spiritual powers, in space. Sure, it was a nod to Mac7, but it was an enormously toned down one, in the same way that Ozma fought the Vajra to some Fire Bomber since it was the music that moved him but didn't literally unleash his inner Spiritia to drive off his enemies with pounding waves of Sound Energy. I could make jokes about a couple of teenagers showing up with an oversized sound system hooked up to their ride, but I can't really call it silly or out of place. Quote
Mr March Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Actually, Azrael told me they were called "Fold Speakers". So in addition to transmitting sound, they may also transmit Ranka's fold waves. Quote
Prime Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I loved Frontier. It had many of the elements that I enjoyed from the other series, and the homages to 7 (which I dislike) were toned down enough to become much more acceptable to me. Really it was a great trip down memory lane! Quote
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Actually, Azrael told me they were called "Fold Speakers". So in addition to transmitting sound, they may also transmit Ranka's fold waves. Never heard that one, but I know in 20 or 21, when the Vajra were attacking, Luca kept talking about "...Canalia's Fold Wave Amp!" I think that's probably a device with fold quartz in it, designed to boost fold waves, similar to a fold generator, but slightly different in its fold wave input system. IE, a microphone-type device, instead of something more... Ship-grade... I'm pretty sure the speaker pods on the G were just modified airshow pods; speakers to be used at airshows for various purposes with decorative lights added, modified concert pods; concert speakers modified to attach to a VF-25's underwing hardpoint, or we could go Minmay or something and say that they're designed explicitly for such things. Perhaps, they're just speakers for concerts, attachable to a VF for the added awe of a giant-robot-plane at the concert, similar to the whole Ex-Gear fiasco. So, they're probably just speakers. Speakers that run on the same principles as in real life. Quote
Killer Robot Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Never heard that one, but I know in 20 or 21, when the Vajra were attacking, Luca kept talking about "...Canalia's Fold Wave Amp!" I think that's probably a device with fold quartz in it, designed to boost fold waves, similar to a fold generator, but slightly different in its fold wave input system. IE, a microphone-type device, instead of something more... Ship-grade... I'm pretty sure the speaker pods on the G were just modified airshow pods; speakers to be used at airshows for various purposes with decorative lights added, modified concert pods; concert speakers modified to attach to a VF-25's underwing hardpoint, or we could go Minmay or something and say that they're designed explicitly for such things. Perhaps, they're just speakers for concerts, attachable to a VF for the added awe of a giant-robot-plane at the concert, similar to the whole Ex-Gear fiasco. So, they're probably just speakers. Speakers that run on the same principles as in real life. That was the case with the fold wave amp, yes. The Cinderella's Horn project had two stages: the VB-6 was equipped with one for the anti-Vajra testing as seen in the relevant episodes, and Battle Frontier's stage was fitted with the final model for the presumed main battle against the Vajra, as seen somewhere around episode 18 or so when Luca and Grace are involved in planning it out and setting it up. These amplifiers turned out to use fold quartz: Sheryl's own ability to generate fold waves was detected because her earring's fold quartz served as a small amplifier on its own. For some who have wondered(like myself when I first saw it), that's why she could freely give her earring to Alto for the final fight: with the larger and more powerful amplifier on Battle Frontier she didn't need it to maximize her abilities. In light of this, if the Episode 12 speaker pods had fold-boosting effects I can imagine they were an earlier test of the technology, and would also fit in with how they were used along with that custom fold quartz based FTL drive Luca loaned them. On the other hand, I think that plot happened without the Galaxy conspiracy's knowledge (as Ranka going there forced a lot of plan revisions) and I don't know if anyone outside of the conspiracy proper knew Ranka's song had fold effects to boost yet. Quote
Mechinyun Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Deculture! How do those of us outside of Japan get ahold of them then? ebay + extra $100 Quote
Dangard Ace Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I can't really complain about episode 12. This series was all about nods to all the previous Macross series and this one was for M7(which I dislike) and I think SDF DYRL. I need to rewatch that episode but from what I recall I liked it. Quote
VF-25Fan Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I think the one thing that everyone can agree on is that Macross Frontier had a lot of very tasty VF eye-candy. It's quite obvious to see where most of the budget went considering the consistency of the characters... Quote
taksraven Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 HAPPY that it was made...... UPSET that it had to end........ Taksraven Quote
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