Robotech Comics

[Roy Focker]

1 hour ago, shazam said:

Purely suggestive of course. 

I thought the same damn thing!

If you have zero idea what Robotech is, and you saw that cover at the comic bookstore what else can you conclude?

[Old_Nash_II]

Robotech: Rick Hunter #3

And here we are again for the penultimate (so far) edition of this mini "solo".

Spoiler

And returning to the edition with the usual entry: Intro so far, cast of the edition.

(Nice art)

And we start where the last edition left off.
With Vince's possible death.
Rick, enraged, goes all out on Zeraal.
Rick gets the better of the Zentraedi, but just as he was going to defeat him, the YF-4's energy runs out and he ends up letting Zeraal escape.
Rick is frustrated by what happened, but is happy to know that Vince survived the fall.

(Really? They used Evangelion reference here???)

Back at Zeraal's base, he is happy to know that he discovered what he wanted, but due to his injuries in the confrontation, he is taken to a cloning room, where he is placed in a tank to recover. In this there is a small flashback about how he survived the fight (in space) against Jack Archer; being recovered by his soldiers, IN SPACE, and revived somehow.

(Now, we will have a mini focused on Jack)

On the aircraft carrier UES Pandora, Rick's team recovers from the fight, and Vince comes into contact with Leonard, who blackmails him about his past (he had a romance and a son with a Zentraedi, until they were killed in combat). and he develops hatred for the race) to obtain information and strength to try to defeat Zeraal.
After that, we see the group enjoying the starry sky of the Southern Hemisphere, and some soldiers listening to Minmei.
Vince arrives and makes fun of Rick for almost being "Mrs. Hunter Lynn Minmei". The team laughs, and Rick tells more about his past with Lisa, and how he joined the army.

Back at base, Zeraal leaves the regeneration tank, organizes his forces again to go to Antarctica, where the Grand Cannon of the South is located...

(Always have a Grand Cannon to try steal)

On Pandora with Rick, they receive Leonard's "gift", a VHT prototype, and with it, they are ready for the "final battle", ending the issue.

(Time to merchan!)

Personal opinion:

Well, the edition that has had the most flashbacks so far, whether in the motivation of Rick and Zeraal, or in a monologue by Rick (twice) or Zeraal (In SPAAAACE).
Or the "friendly" conversation between Vince and Leonard, and the reasons (or part of them) for his prejudice against the Zentraedi. Which gives us a certain perception of the world in this soft-retcon in the franchise.

In fact, Rick is somewhat bitter about everything that is happening, "revisiting the past" and somewhat apathetic about the situation, he doesn't even look like that initial auttruistic person; In short, he is tired of war, and because of it he "never changes", even in times of peace.

(War, never change...)
In Zeraal facton, we see that he remains as he was in the game, even though "some time has passed", and how all he wants is to take revenge on the victors of the war.

(Male fanservice like a Ken)

The racial confrontation between Vince and Leonard is well explored, especially given the latter's past, but I believe it would be better used in the outcome of the plot, and not as a "bargaining chip".

(Sins Past)

The art is very good, better than the initial series (yes, that one by Simon Furman)...

(I saw this reference to Macross 0...)

Narrative, as I said above, is more explanatory than the action itself, with plenty of references and quotes from the franchise's lore, which is useful for new readers or those who don't know the Robotech universe well post-Macross Saga.

Rating: 8/10

Bonus: Alternatives covers

 

[RavenHawk]

On 3/28/2024 at 1:52 PM, Old_Nash_II said:

Robotech: Rick Hunter #3

And here we are again for the penultimate (so far) edition of this mini "solo".

  Reveal hidden contents

And returning to the edition with the usual entry: Intro so far, cast of the edition.

(Nice art)

And we start where the last edition left off.
With Vince's possible death.
Rick, enraged, goes all out on Zeraal.
Rick gets the better of the Zentraedi, but just as he was going to defeat him, the YF-4's energy runs out and he ends up letting Zeraal escape.
Rick is frustrated by what happened, but is happy to know that Vince survived the fall.

(Really? They used Evangelion reference here???)

Back at Zeraal's base, he is happy to know that he discovered what he wanted, but due to his injuries in the confrontation, he is taken to a cloning room, where he is placed in a tank to recover. In this there is a small flashback about how he survived the fight (in space) against Jack Archer; being recovered by his soldiers, IN SPACE, and revived somehow.

(Now, we will have a mini focused on Jack)

On the aircraft carrier UES Pandora, Rick's team recovers from the fight, and Vince comes into contact with Leonard, who blackmails him about his past (he had a romance and a son with a Zentraedi, until they were killed in combat). and he develops hatred for the race) to obtain information and strength to try to defeat Zeraal.
After that, we see the group enjoying the starry sky of the Southern Hemisphere, and some soldiers listening to Minmei.
Vince arrives and makes fun of Rick for almost being "Mrs. Hunter Lynn Minmei". The team laughs, and Rick tells more about his past with Lisa, and how he joined the army.

Back at base, Zeraal leaves the regeneration tank, organizes his forces again to go to Antarctica, where the Grand Cannon of the South is located...

(Always have a Grand Cannon to try steal)

On Pandora with Rick, they receive Leonard's "gift", a VHT prototype, and with it, they are ready for the "final battle", ending the issue.

(Time to merchan!)

Personal opinion:

Well, the edition that has had the most flashbacks so far, whether in the motivation of Rick and Zeraal, or in a monologue by Rick (twice) or Zeraal (In SPAAAACE).
Or the "friendly" conversation between Vince and Leonard, and the reasons (or part of them) for his prejudice against the Zentraedi. Which gives us a certain perception of the world in this soft-retcon in the franchise.

In fact, Rick is somewhat bitter about everything that is happening, "revisiting the past" and somewhat apathetic about the situation, he doesn't even look like that initial auttruistic person; In short, he is tired of war, and because of it he "never changes", even in times of peace.

(War, never change...)
In Zeraal facton, we see that he remains as he was in the game, even though "some time has passed", and how all he wants is to take revenge on the victors of the war.

(Male fanservice like a Ken)

The racial confrontation between Vince and Leonard is well explored, especially given the latter's past, but I believe it would be better used in the outcome of the plot, and not as a "bargaining chip".

(Sins Past)

The art is very good, better than the initial series (yes, that one by Simon Furman)...

(I saw this reference to Macross 0...)

Narrative, as I said above, is more explanatory than the action itself, with plenty of references and quotes from the franchise's lore, which is useful for new readers or those who don't know the Robotech universe well post-Macross Saga.

Rating: 8/10

Bonus: Alternatives covers

 

Has anyone been reading this?

Thoughts?

I thought that Easton was shockingly TERRIBLE on M.A.S.K.

I feel like between here, M.A.S.K., and Power Rangers, he kind of rides on the nostalgia already present, rather than the quality of his own work.

[Seto Kaiba]

57 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

I feel like between here, M.A.S.K., and Power Rangers, he kind of rides on the nostalgia already present, rather than the quality of his own work.

Isn't "nostalgia as a substitute for quality" pretty much the textbook definition of Robotech licensed works in general?

On that basis, Easton sounds like a perfect fit for Robotech.  Not an original idea in sight, just an in-the-box story that puts existing characters and set pieces into slightly different configurations from normal.

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Isn't "nostalgia as a substitute for quality" pretty much the textbook definition of Robotech licensed works in general?

On that basis, Easton sounds like a perfect fit for Robotech.  Not an original idea in sight, just an in-the-box story that puts existing characters and set pieces into slightly different configurations from normal.

I understand that you hate Robotech, as you make clear in all of your posts (that I have seen); this was not the purpose of my questions, though.

Additionally, Robotech licensed works have shown quality, at times (I think Invid War had a high level of quality, by way of one example that comes to mind); just how stunningly, unprofessionally bad other works have been overshadows these.

As to originality, I think that Simon Furman DID use some original ideas in his run, and not just "put(ing) existing characters and set pieces into slightly different configurations from normal." I have not seen any sales numbers to suggest that the works with originality have undersold those without it. Titan's business practices are... enigmatic, in my view. 

My point with Easton wasn't a lack of originality, but just the lack of quality that we both mentioned. In that sense, yes, he fits into the Tommy Yune pack of nostalgia over quality. This, in my view, is a commonality to all of his licensed work. It is not just Robotech, but also Power Rangers, Transformers, M.A.S.K., etc.

[JB0]

Enough of this, Titan! Bring back the epic saga of Sad Dana!

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I understand that you hate Robotech, as you make clear in all of your posts (that I have seen); this was not the purpose of my questions, though.

It takes a true fan to recognize this as not just one of the classic reflex comebacks (lol), but a big part of the why there so few Robotech fans.

Robotech fans did an amazing job of driving people out of the Robotech fandom by refusing to accept that you can like something and still be critical of it. 😉👍

 

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Additionally, Robotech licensed works have shown quality, at times (I think Invid War had a high level of quality, by way of one example that comes to mind); just how stunningly, unprofessionally bad other works have been overshadows these.

I guess it depends what you mean by "quality".  I've read, and own copies of, almost everything that's been printed and sold under the Robotech banner insofar as comics, novels, RPG books, and artbooks, and it's pretty consistently amateur hour stuff across the board.  I know I'm not alone in thinking that, because Harmony Gold's own official stance on the whole subject was that none of the pre-2001 material would've been cleared for sale if anyone'd been paying attention to managing the brand in the 80's and 90's.  The franchise just never got the kind of licensee who could do a professional-feeling job with it* (pre-2001), so it always felt like a tradeoff... you could have have decent fanart-level art and terrible writing or terrible art and decent fanfic-level writing.  IMO, some of the best are the parts where it was just unapologietically bad on every front like Wings of Gibraltar.

A lot of it was just inconsequential side stories that didn't do anything to grow the setting or expand on the story in a meaningful way.  And in that respect, not a lot has changed... even this new comic is just an inconsequential side story that goes nowhere new or interesting and adds nothing meaningful to the setting.  It reads like a fanfic, and not in a good way.

 

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

As to originality, I think that Simon Furman DID use some original ideas in his run, and not just "put(ing) existing characters and set pieces into slightly different configurations from normal." I have not seen any sales numbers to suggest that the works with originality have undersold those without it. Titan's business practices are... enigmatic, in my view. 

He did, to a small degree... but even then the Titan Comics Robotech series was still largely just a retread of old ground with art that varied from obviously traced to off-putting to "I think this person has a dental fetish".  I do respect what they did near the end though, using the time loop plot device as a way to actively take the piss out of the franchise's various failures and false starts and its inability to come up with a story beyond just the next alien war.  To throw that into a Robotech publication with all the fandom's sacred cows took a fair bit of guts, and honestly I'm disappointed we didn't get to see more of the payoff in Remix.

 

1 hour ago, JB0 said:

Enough of this, Titan! Bring back the epic saga of Sad Dana!

Y'know what?  Yes.  That's exactly what Titan Comics should do.

They had - for the first time since what? 1996?** - an actual original Robotech story that wasn't slavishly following or playing in the same sandbox with the TV series.  They had the chance to take the story somewhere new and different and they got cut off before they could really do something with it.

 

* Well, OK, they did have Luceno and Daley for the novelization... Luceno and Daley just kinda phoned that one in and tried to turn it into off-brand Star Wars when they got bored.

** Mordecai was '96, right?  That last ill-fated issue after Clone?

[RavenHawk]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It takes a true fan to recognize this as not just one of the classic reflex comebacks (lol), but a big part of the why there so few Robotech fans.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, so would love for you to explain.

I asked a question about people's thoughts on a specific series, which I am... let's say, pessimistic about, though I have yet to read it (I buy the trades, generally).

Your response was just a comment pointing out your opinion of Robotech licensing in general. A fair statement, but not really relevant, and more of your general disdain for Robotech, which seems well documented here. 

 

(I, obviously, don't know you, and have nothing against you personally, or the opinions that you share, even if I disagree with them on some occasions. I think I just get frustrated when people venting their hatred over a property seems to get in the way of any genuine discussion... additionally (full disclosure), I'm reading your reply on the same day as reading a reply to a motion for judgment on the merits in a case, with a similar argumentative style, so, hey... visceral reaction)

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

I asked a question about people's thoughts on a specific series, which I am... let's say, pessimistic about, though I have yet to read it (I buy the trades, generally).

Your response was just a comment pointing out your opinion of Robotech licensing in general. A fair statement, but not really relevant, [...]

To be frank, I think it said all that really needs to be said about this latest Robotech comic.

It's utterly unremarkable.  Why?  Because it really is just the latest in a long line of minimum effort titles that have nostalgia as their only real selling point.  It doesn't add anything new or interesting to the setting or the characters.  The "Malcontent" era between the First Robotech War and Robotech II: the Sentinels is so overused it could fairly be called the default setting for Robotech side stories.  The principal characters are all established ones.  Even the villain, Zeraal, is a returner from the Robotech: Battlecry game... which itself did the malcontent side story thing for the game's second half where Zeraal was just store brand Khyron.  Everything it does has been done before, in a very similar manner.  I'd make a joke about "Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent", but they didn't even go that far.  And because they didn't go that far, we know the story will be a nonevent in the setting because we know what happens to these characters later... except Zeraal, but he'll almost certainly be dead again in the final issue.

The one thing it does that hasn't done done before is they're using YF-4s instead of VF-1s... and even that's only a technicality, because From the Stars and Remix had them too, albeit not as prominently.

I can wax lyrical about the many different ways it's a lazy, low quality, painfully unoriginal comic selling entirely on the basis of nostalgia... but the same point can be made much more succinctly by simply acknowledging that having nostalgia as the sole selling point is normal for the franchise and that this comic is thoroughly normal.

Spoiler

Seriously.  Tell me I'm wrong.  The only reason fans give a damn about finishing Robotech II: the Sentinels is because it's the continuing adventures of the characters they loved in the Macross Saga.  Shadow Chronicles sold on the same basis: "Find out what happened to Rick Hunter!".  Not banking on that nostalgia is what sank Robotech 3000 and Robotech Academy.

 

 

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this, so would love for you to explain.

It's a bit off topic, so I'll spoiler tag it so folks can skip it more easily.

Spoiler

To make a very long story tolerably short, the Robotech fandom has been pretty toxic for at least as long as it's been online and the No True Scotsman is basically its official fallacy.

With no kind of coordinating intent behind the franchise after the failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels, the fans did an awful lot of infighting over their preferred versions of the story.  The early days of the online fandom saw a lot of bickering between the fans who preferred the TV series vs. the novels vs. the comics, and so on over which version of the story is the "real" Robotech.  This, of course, led to people dismissing others preferences as "not real Robotech" or labeling those critical of them as "not real fans".  This constant fighting and dismissal of anyone with a dissenting opinion as "not a real fan" led to a lot of people leaving the fanbase.  This continued along different lines after HG rebooted Robotech to start fresh, with the disowning of the old comics and novels driving pro- vs. anti-HG infighting that then switched to pro- vs. anti-Shadow Chronicles infighting as some fans close to HG tried to quash criticism of the movie by dismissing anyone critical of it as "not a real fan" or a troll.  That really sped up the fanbase's decline, since it drove a wave of mass bannings on forums via moderators on the pro-Shadow Chronicles side.

With very little bringing new fans in and all that infighting driving many existing fans away, well... it wouldn't be a stretch to say the fanbase would be a lot bigger if the fans weren't so quick to conclude that criticism implies hate.  "You're critical of <title> therefore you hate Robotech" was the fanbase's traditional kneejerk response for ages, though calling it a "reflex" is a synonym that fits the theme a bit better, IMO.  It's almost nostalgic seeing it again.

[pengbuzz]

45 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's a bit off topic, so I'll spoiler tag it so folks can skip it more easily.

  Hide contents

To make a very long story tolerably short, the Robotech fandom has been pretty toxic for at least as long as it's been online and the No True Scotsman is basically its official fallacy.

With no kind of coordinating intent behind the franchise after the failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels, the fans did an awful lot of infighting over their preferred versions of the story.  The early days of the online fandom saw a lot of bickering between the fans who preferred the TV series vs. the novels vs. the comics, and so on over which version of the story is the "real" Robotech.  This, of course, led to people dismissing others preferences as "not real Robotech" or labeling those critical of them as "not real fans".  This constant fighting and dismissal of anyone with a dissenting opinion as "not a real fan" led to a lot of people leaving the fanbase.  This continued along different lines after HG rebooted Robotech to start fresh, with the disowning of the old comics and novels driving pro- vs. anti-HG infighting that then switched to pro- vs. anti-Shadow Chronicles infighting as some fans close to HG tried to quash criticism of the movie by dismissing anyone critical of it as "not a real fan" or a troll.  That really sped up the fanbase's decline, since it drove a wave of mass bannings on forums via moderators on the pro-Shadow Chronicles side.

With very little bringing new fans in and all that infighting driving many existing fans away, well... it wouldn't be a stretch to say the fanbase would be a lot bigger if the fans weren't so quick to conclude that criticism implies hate.  "You're critical of <title> therefore you hate Robotech" was the fanbase's traditional kneejerk response for ages, though calling it a "reflex" is a synonym that fits the theme a bit better, IMO.  It's almost nostalgic seeing it again.

So basically:

Spoiler

Toxic fandom "No True Scottsman'ed" itself into oblivion, with no original quality content from HG starving it along the way.

This is just my take on it (for what it's worth, give or take some pocket lint), but I think way too many people were reading themselves into the stories (probably with their own fan-made characters), and could not take any  criticism because they were so emotionally invested in it.

 

Edited April 5 by pengbuzz

[JB0]

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Y'know what?  Yes.  That's exactly what Titan Comics should do.

They had - for the first time since what? 1996?** - an actual original Robotech story that wasn't slavishly following or playing in the same sandbox with the TV series.  They had the chance to take the story somewhere new and different and they got cut off before they could really do something with it.

Yeah, I was phrasing it flippantly, but it was a genuinely interesting mess of a thing. 

[roboemo]

For some reason, part of me wish there was chance for Mospeada or TNG comic.
Or at least art book for uniforms and division colors (only because official art on female Mars Base jumpsuit along with Jupiter and Saturn).

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So basically:

  Hide contents

Toxic fandom "No True Scottsman'ed" itself into oblivion, with no original quality content from HG starving it along the way.

This is just my take on it (for what it's worth, give or take some pocket lint), but I think way too many people were reading themselves into the stories (probably with their own fan-made characters), and could not take any  criticism because they were so emotionally invested in it.

 

More or less, yeah. 

Spoiler

I don't think it was a matter of reading themselves into the stories though. With no official setting, one of the main pastimes for Robotech fans was constructing fan theories. They would spend literal years constructing elaborate theories to explain the many errors and inconsistencies in the TV series and other media, to make the various contradictory and occasionally nonsensical stories fit together in a way that made sense to them, or make something significant out of the most trivial throwaway dialogue. They put a lot of effort and passion into developing and documenting those theories, and of course quite a few of them disagreed bitterly about the validity or accuracy of those theories.

Sites like the Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide, Robotech Research, and even Steel Falcon were monuments to that sort of activity. 

The amount of resentment that came simply from questions having official answers in the wake of the reboot was truly something to behold. A great many of them were upset that their favorite theories were jossed, and some of them took it extremely personally.

 

 

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

Yeah, I was phrasing it flippantly, but it was a genuinely interesting mess of a thing. 

It really was. It is honestly a shame that Remix got canceled. 

The odds of it actually being good in the long run weren't great, but it was a genuine effort to do something halfway original with the property from a writer that acknowledged the franchise's creative shortcomings and bad habits and was willing to try a different direction entirely for future development even if it meant making hamburger out of some of the fanbase's sacred cows.

That it also got away from the creepy tracing-heavy photorealistic art style of the previous comic was an unexpected but welcome turn of events as well. (Though we will be eternally grateful for the previous comic coining such memorable phrases as "a defibrillator on legs".)

This new Rick Hunter miniseries is incredibly toothless stuff by comparison.

Edited April 6 by Seto Kaiba

[pengbuzz]

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

More or less, yeah. 

  Hide contents

I don't think it was a matter of reading themselves into the stories though. With no official setting, one of the main pastimes for Robotech fans was constructing fan theories. They would spend literal years constructing elaborate theories to explain the many errors and inconsistencies in the TV series and other media, to make the various contradictory and occasionally nonsensical stories fit together in a way that made sense to them, or make something significant out of the most trivial throwaway dialogue. They put a lot of effort and passion into developing and documenting those theories, and of course quite a few of them disagreed bitterly about the validity or accuracy of those theories.

Sites like the Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide, Robotech Research, and even Steel Falcon were monuments to that sort of activity. 

The amount of resentment that came simply from questions having official answers in the wake of the reboot was truly something to behold. A great many of them were upset that their favorite theories were jossed, and some of them took it extremely personally.

I can see your point; that said:

Spoiler

I felt they had done so because during my time on those forums, it seemed like a great many of them were so deep into that world that they must have invented characters to insert themselves into that world. But you do make sense on how much they had put into their theories and other such stuff.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I can see your point; that said:

  Hide contents

I felt they had done so because during my time on those forums, it seemed like a great many of them were so deep into that world that they must have invented characters to insert themselves into that world. But you do make sense on how much they had put into their theories and other such stuff.

 

To be frank, I really don't think so... it's something similar, but not that specifically.

Spoiler

For as long as I've been involved with the fandom, the main thing I've seen driving Robotech's pre-reboot fans to remain invested in it is that their tendency to create their own personal "pseudo-holistic" interpretations of the Robotech setting.

No new animation was forthcoming in the period between the failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels in 1987 and the announcement and immediate failure of Robotech 3000 in 2000, so the fans had to find other ways to remain engaged with the property.  They had the novels, the comics, the RPG, and of course home video.  The novelization wasn't much use because it was a very poor adaptation that didn't much resemble the series it was supposedly based on.  The early comics were adaptations and therefore not all that interesting, while many of the later comics were side stories that did little to nothing to expand the setting and frequently contradicted each other and the series.  The Palladium Books RPG, meanwhile, was off in left field making sh*t up as it went.  So the fans spent years analyzing, debating, and theorizing around every little detail of the animated series.  Elaborate theories were crafted to add meaning to throwaway lines, information was cherrypicked from different publications to fill in gaps and plot holes from the different works, and extrapolations from even the most trivial remark were used to try and expand the view of the setting because the writers simply wouldn't.  So when all's said and done, what kept the fans occupied was essentially creating their own personal version of Robotech in their heads based on whatever collection of works suited their individual preference.

It's why I've often said that most Robotech fans are not truly fans of Robotech, but rather of their own Robotech fan fiction.

Of course, quite a few of those long-time fans take it rather personally when their personal Robotech headcanon is at odds with facts from the Robotech post-reboot official setting.

It's one reason I wish Robotech would stop doing side story comics like this latest Robotech: Rick Hunter miniseries.  

Robotech's story is already a very narrowly focused narrative where nothing happening outside of the immediate proximity of the TV series protagonists really matters.  Making ever more side stories and interquels with inconsequential stories where the conclusions are either foregone or simply don't matter in the greater scheme of things doesn't do anything to advance the story or grow the setting.  The franchise has been in a holding pattern with nothing noteworthy going on for over seventeen years now since Shadow Chronicles flopped.  At least let the licensees do something with the setting besides run circles inside the ringfenced plot of a forty year old TV show, y'know?

No matter how much the Robotech: Rick Hunter miniseries builds him up, Zeraal really can't be anything more than a speedbump because this is an interquel set between the end of the Macross Saga and the start of the Sentinels arc.  He can't seriously hurt or kill the protagonists because they're Saved by Canon due to being main characters in stories set later down the timeline and he can't really do anything significant to the Earth since the timeline has no major conflicts in the period between Khyron's death and the departure of the SDF-3.  He can run to the end of his leash and bark, kill some redshirts, and that's about it.  He's a toothless foe because the ending is a foregone conclusion.  So all the comic really does with the setting is reaffirm that the Southern Cross Army are a redshirt army of xenophobic dirtbags ... and that didn't really need to be reaffirmed IMO.

[Bolt]

The intro art was cool  but these VF's all look stubby and mis proportioned . And don't get me started on the "VHT prototype Zero.."

[pengbuzz]

  

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

To be frank, I really don't think so... it's something similar, but not that specifically.

  Reveal hidden contents

For as long as I've been involved with the fandom, the main thing I've seen driving Robotech's pre-reboot fans to remain invested in it is that their tendency to create their own personal "pseudo-holistic" interpretations of the Robotech setting.

No new animation was forthcoming in the period between the failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels in 1987 and the announcement and immediate failure of Robotech 3000 in 2000, so the fans had to find other ways to remain engaged with the property.  They had the novels, the comics, the RPG, and of course home video.  The novelization wasn't much use because it was a very poor adaptation that didn't much resemble the series it was supposedly based on.  The early comics were adaptations and therefore not all that interesting, while many of the later comics were side stories that did little to nothing to expand the setting and frequently contradicted each other and the series.  The Palladium Books RPG, meanwhile, was off in left field making sh*t up as it went.  So the fans spent years analyzing, debating, and theorizing around every little detail of the animated series.  Elaborate theories were crafted to add meaning to throwaway lines, information was cherrypicked from different publications to fill in gaps and plot holes from the different works, and extrapolations from even the most trivial remark were used to try and expand the view of the setting because the writers simply wouldn't.  So when all's said and done, what kept the fans occupied was essentially creating their own personal version of Robotech in their heads based on whatever collection of works suited their individual preference.

It's why I've often said that most Robotech fans are not truly fans of Robotech, but rather of their own Robotech fan fiction.

Of course, quite a few of those long-time fans take it rather personally when their personal Robotech headcanon is at odds with facts from the Robotech post-reboot official setting.

It's one reason I wish Robotech would stop doing side story comics like this latest Robotech: Rick Hunter miniseries.  

Robotech's story is already a very narrowly focused narrative where nothing happening outside of the immediate proximity of the TV series protagonists really matters.  Making ever more side stories and interquels with inconsequential stories where the conclusions are either foregone or simply don't matter in the greater scheme of things doesn't do anything to advance the story or grow the setting.  The franchise has been in a holding pattern with nothing noteworthy going on for over seventeen years now since Shadow Chronicles flopped.  At least let the licensees do something with the setting besides run circles inside the ringfenced plot of a forty year old TV show, y'know?

No matter how much the Robotech: Rick Hunter miniseries builds him up, Zeraal really can't be anything more than a speedbump because this is an interquel set between the end of the Macross Saga and the start of the Sentinels arc.  He can't seriously hurt or kill the protagonists because they're Saved by Canon due to being main characters in stories set later down the timeline and he can't really do anything significant to the Earth since the timeline has no major conflicts in the period between Khyron's death and the departure of the SDF-3.  He can run to the end of his leash and bark, kill some redshirts, and that's about it.  He's a toothless foe because the ending is a foregone conclusion.  So all the comic really does with the setting is reaffirm that the Southern Cross Army are a redshirt army of xenophobic dirtbags ... and that didn't really need to be reaffirmed IMO.

Okay...

Spoiler

So they built their own versions with stuff they created to fill in the blanks, protected their individual versions viciously, then got cheesed when the official versions' answers invalidated their favored take on it?

Please forgive my density here (approaching depleted uranium, I'm sure!); sometimes my comprende vous is comprende-shot!

 

  

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

The intro art was cool  but these VF's all look stubby and mis proportioned . And don't get me started on the "VHT prototype Zero.."

Rick looks mad that his perm came out like crap.

Edited April 7 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

26 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

 Okay...

  Hide contents

So they built their own versions with stuff they created to fill in the blanks, protected their individual versions viciously, then got cheesed when the official versions' answers invalidated their favored take on it?

Pretty much, yeah.

The only way to make those old comics and whatnot fit together was to do some serious mental calesthenics... and what fandom doesn't obsess over the minutae of the series they love?

 

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

The intro art was cool  but these VF's all look stubby and mis proportioned . And don't get me started on the "VHT prototype Zero.."

Yeah, it looks like arse... but really, talk about your downgrades.  

I'm pretty sure what he said to Leonard to get that was "I'm suicidal but I'd like to die in battle. What can you do to help?"

That he presents that as an innovation when the Spartas's - and all other Southern Cross Army units - canonical in-universe reputation is closer to The Alleged Car is interesting in its own right.  Maybe its reputation hadn't yet begun to precede it, though you'd think having to borrow it from the United Earth Washout Corps might be warning enough.

 

36 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Rick looks mad that his perm came out like crap.

He's mad because his buddy wrecked an expensive prototype of the best fighter humanity EVER had in Robotech and came back with a prototype of the single worst mecha humanity ever developed in Robotech like it was some kind of achievement.

It's like he totaled a borrowed Lamborghini Aventador and tried to replace it on short notice with a riced-out Ford Pinto.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's like he totaled a borrowed Lamborghini Aventador and tried to replace it on short notice with a riced-out Ford Pinto.

I feel that's being uncharitable to Ford Pintos. 🤣

[Big s]

6 hours ago, Bolt said:

The intro art was cool  but these VF's all look stubby and mis proportioned . And don't get me started on the "VHT prototype Zero.."

What’s with the bandaid on his nose? 
Did he get shot down?………Again 

[Old_Nash_II]

7 hours ago, Big s said:

What’s with the bandaid on his nose? 
Did he get shot down?………Again 

Helmet visor has broken in fight

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I feel that's being uncharitable to Ford Pintos. 🤣

Kind of... 

One of the problems with developing stories that bridge the sagas of Robotech is the difference in capability between eras and forces.  It's not just a disparity between the tech levels of the original shows either.  Robotech II: the Sentinels was the first title to establish that the Defense Forces after the Macross Saga (the so-called "Army of the Southern Cross") are actually made up of the recruits who failed to meet the minimum standards to join the Expeditionary Forces.  That aspect got played up further after the franchise reboot in '01, with the ASC's leadership being depicted as corrupt and occasionally outright treasonous and their equipment was canonically made out to be poorly designed and of inferior quality as a result of being proprietary developments made after the Expeditionary Force monopolized all the best engineers.

So they only ever get to show up as a resentful redshirt army (like this comic) or as traumatized veterans of a losing war (like in Prelude).  They're pretty much only in this new comic to make Rick et. al. look good by comparison.  It'll be interesting to see if the prototype Spartas gets some jobbing in or is actually useful for something.

 

5 hours ago, Old_Nash_II said:

Helmet visor has broken in fight

That's plot armor for ya... Vince takes a hit and he's wrapped up like he's halfway through putting on his mummy costume for Halloween, Rick takes a hit and he just has a bandaid on the bridge of his nose like a stereotypical delinquent instead of spending a week picking polycarbonate shrapnel out of his face.

(But I can't get past how the two minor characters on the right have the same exact face...)

[Big s]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(But I can't get past how the two minor characters on the right have the same exact face...)

I didn’t notice it earlier. But they’re exactly the same just one is slightly darker. Even the shadows are the exact same. They just got lazy and copy pasted faces 

[Old_Nash_II]

Robotech: Rick Hunter #4

Finally, the conclusion of this "exciting" Rick Hunter saga.

Spoiler

The edition begins with a brief summary of the saga and the cast.

We move on to editing.
In space, in Earth's orbit, at the Factory Satellite, we have a conversation between Lisa and Dr. Lang, while they oversee the construction of the SDF-3, about how Rick is having problems with Zeraal and his Zentraedi.
Lisa tells Lang that she has decided to send "help from above" for Rick.

(On the JL Factory Satellite...)

On Earth, Rick and his group arriving at Zeraal's base, and upon entering it, they are greeted by a recording of Zeraal congratulating them for getting so close and also saying what his plans are for the group.
Surprised by the escalation of the situation, Rick received a transmission from Rolf Emerson, letting him know that they are there to help him.

(A wild another old face from franchise appear..)

At the Antarctic base, Zeraal puts his plan into action, only to be delayed by the carelessness of one of his soldiers.
Furious, he orders the soldier to take off his helmet, revealing himself to be Breetai.
After the provocation on both sides, Zeraal orders Breetai to be killed. He laughs and soon a shootout begins, with Breetai having a vast advantage, but fleeing the scene.

(Breetai Attack!)

Zeraal, without a choice, decides to activate the cannon himself, against his companion's wishes.

At Tristar, Rick and his group thank him for the ride and head off to complete their mission. And after a little history lesson, they find Breetai outside the base. After greetings, Vince arrives with the VHT, and destroys the gate.

Soon they face resistance from the rebels, but overcome them with some ease.

(TURANSFORM!!!)

Rick is then alerted to the reaction in the cannon core, and he flies there.

Arriving, you will see Zeraal trying to initiate a reaction using the core of his armor. Rick arrives and warns that the energy from his armor would not be enough for his plans and that it would only destroy Zeraal's base, then says that he would be satisfied with killing him, but Rick shoots him and flies away, letting the unstable core explode, killing Zeraal and destroying the Grand Canyon.

(Unlimited power)

In space, aboard the Tristar, Rick comments to Vince that with Zeraal's defeat, he would bring an end to the discontented Zentraedi revolts.

Rick receives permission from Factory Satelitte, and goes to meet Lisa, thus ending the story.

(reprise of we will win)

Personal opinion:
And here ends the second Robotech saga at Titan Comics and I admit, the edition took a while to have a review because it is simply too rushed.
I do not know if due to editorial issues, the series that could have ended in a 5th, ended abruptly in the 4th and you feel like a lot was left out.
If they wanted to do something to bring old and new fans together (due to the amount of references even from the books), it kind of failed. Who knows, perhaps next time, that is, if they don't cancel everything without warning, like they did with Remix (which they promised I would return to almost 4 years ago and so far nothing...).

(Now Titan Comics has killed The dream I dreamed)

Simone's art remains very good, the fight scenes in the edition, although few, were good, even a certain detail in the transformations during them. Yes, I admit that I will feel sorry for the retirement of the YF-4, after all, everything suggests that in a sequel, we will see people use the VFA-6.

(Valk's Kick!)

It's a shame that we couldn't see a better clash between Rick and Zeraal, I think because the editing focused too much on the far-fetched explanations.

In fact, how 80s, Zeraal told Rick where he was and what he wanted to do when he was there. It looked too much like the plans of Dr. Scarab or Cobra Commander.

(Villain Rule #1: Always reveal your plans to the hero...)

The references, as I said above, to past franchises are a little less noticeable, but anyone who knows the franchise (its good and many bad moments) will pick them up almost immediately.
It's a funny thing to see Lisa needling Minmei at a certain point, which in fact, she doesn't appear in person, only on video or radio.

(Jealousy is a very ugly thing...)

Rating 7/10 (because of the Deus ex Machina effect felt in this edition)

 

Bonus Alternative Covers

 

Edited April 22 by Old_Nash_II
Double page

[shazam]

For some reason I don't mind the cover art for cover c.

[Big s]

So I guess Breetai got demoted 

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Old_Nash_II said:

Robotech: Rick Hunter #4

Finally, the conclusion of this "exciting" Rick Hunter saga.

And it's exactly the nonevent anyone familiar with the franchise already knew it would be from the outset.  Yaaaaay... 🥱

A final pointless chapter in a stakeless side story set in the Nonevent Saga where all the main characters are Saved By Canon because it's an interquel and the villain's just a disposable expy of a popular antagonist from the TV series.

Otherwise, it's pretty much the usual form letter writing you see in Robotech comics.  We get the obligatory reminder that the story is set between the two sagas the fans actually care about: the Macross Saga and the Sentinels.  There's the occasional reminder that the Army of the Southern Cross is canonically useless, some halfhearted fanservice in the form of unnecessary cameos by established characters and incidental fanfic-level stuff like naming ships after dead characters that breaks the flow of the story, a character who isn't canonically infantry goes full Rambo for some reason, a fair amount of horribly stilted banter between enemies, and they take the mandatory cheap shot at Minmei based on how she was flanderized in Sentinels too just to put the cherry on top of this sundae of mediocrity.

It's a mess... but it's a mess in all the usual and expected ways that licensed Robotech works are a mess.

 

11 hours ago, Old_Nash_II said:

It's a shame that we couldn't see a better clash between Rick and Zeraal, I think because the editing focused too much on the far-fetched explanations.

In fact, how 80s, Zeraal told Rick where he was and what he wanted to do when he was there. It looked too much like the plans of Dr. Scarab or Cobra Commander.

That horribly dated writing is 100% on-brand for Robotech, though.  It's a product of the editorial process of the TV series.  They were trying to take three shows that were written with a high school-aged audience in mind and dumb them down for a primary school audience.  All that exposition dumping was to make sure the audience could still follow the story.  (The same reason other kids shows do the same thing where the villian monologues and explains their entire plan.)

That's also not exactly a small part of why projects like Shadow Chronicles got mercilessly dragged by fans and non-fans alike when they put them up on public display.  They're still writing like their audience are kids from the 80's and not the older teens and twenty-somethings they were trying to attract in the 2000s or the adults that've made up most of the fanbase since the late 90's.

 

9 hours ago, Big s said:

So I guess Breetai got demoted 

That's just how Robotech has always treated him since Robotech II: the Sentinels.

Never mind that Breetai was one of the most senior commanders in the Zentradi forces in the Macross Saga or that he's hands-down the most experienced fleet commander the Earth Forces have by an enormous margin thereafter, he's made into one of Rick and Lisa's loyal sidekicks and assigned to the segregated all-Zentradi unit aboard the SDF-3.  He even gets killed off in an undignified manner after leading a dwindling force of Zentradi grunts for decades in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles.

The disrespect is real... but then, in Robotech, Humanity is canonically xenophobic as all get-out.

It's certainly a far cry from the respect he got in Macross, where he became commander of the Spacy's flagship after the war and Chief of Staff of the Spacy a few years after that when General Global retired, with his service being commemorated by naming a Macross-class ship after him.