The MW Automotive Thread Quattro SpecV

[jenius]

This needs pics. It's true, they're not like identical or anything, but I see some similarities:

a couple side sets:

In my searching, I did see that Aston Martin has updated their tail lights to look much more unique, I approve.

Edited September 21, 2010 by jenius

[areaseven]

The Miata was originally designed as an homage to the 1960s British roadsters; hence a few similarities with some Jaguars and Aston Martins.

[Agent ONE]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/turning-a-miata-into-an-aston-martin.html

Not tooo much of a stretch.

You = crazy

[jenius]

I posted 4 pics, you don't see any similarities? Obviously there are lots of differences there, and the newer Aston Martins definitely have greater differences, but it's one bland English roadster next to one apparent homage English roadster. I dunno, I'm just saying, if I had $150K back in the early 2000s I would have wanted something that looked a bit more unique.

[areaseven]

Acura ZDX = FAIL - Unless you're a contortionist with no sense of artistic taste, stay away from this car. But then again, this is one car Wanzerfan would love.

[Agent ONE]

This needs pics. It's true, they're not like identical or anything, but I see some similarities:

In my searching, I did see that Aston Martin has updated their tail lights to look much more unique, I approve.

That DB7 is a 1994 design.

This is what AM is doing now:

[reddsun1]

Acura ZDX = FAIL - Unless you're a contortionist with no sense of artistic taste, stay away from this car. But then again, this is one car Wanzerfan would love.

LOL, they'll probably sell 'em by the boatloads...

That DB7 is a 1994 design.

This is what AM is doing now:

I think the same guy is responsible for designs at both firms (reason A-M's looked so much like Jags in the 90's); moved from Jaguar to Aston-Martin?

Edited September 21, 2010 by reddsun1

[reddsun1]

The ends don't justify the means, so to speak, for that Miata dress-up kit. No way in hell it'd ever be mistaken for a real Aston. Would probably yield better results if all that effort went towards say, stretching the wheelbase by about 1" and shoehorning a small block V8 in it, for some high power:weight shenanigans. Perhaps a Chev or Mopar V8, so as to apply a slightly different method to a proven formula? But, given Mazda's previous ties to Ford...anyways, it worked for Carrol Shelby.

ed: oops--I guess someone already is doing that. http://monstermiata.webs.com/ as a natural consequence, they've got some original Miata engines that can be had for a song.

Edited September 21, 2010 by reddsun1

[Agent ONE]

LOL, they'll probably sell 'em by the boatloads...

I think the same guy is responsible for designs at both firms (reason A-M's looked so much like Jags in the 90's); moved from Jaguar to Aston-Martin?

Yes, but the move was the other way.

[anime52k8]

Would probably yield better results if all that effort went towards say, stretching the wheelbase by about 1" and shoehorning a small block V8 in it, for some high power:weight shenanigans.

that is perhaps the dumbest idea I've ever heard, ever.

[areaseven]

that is perhaps the dumbest idea I've ever heard, ever.

On the contrary, you've forgotten every post Wanzerfan has made.

[areaseven]

Trouble sleeping? Watch this video:

[emajnthis]

that is perhaps the dumbest idea I've ever heard, ever.

Back when i had nothing better to do than go to track events i've seen a few monster miata's in person, and they're fast, very fast, and not just on the straights in the corners too. If i hadn't turbocharged mine, i probably would've gone the V8 route when i owned a Miata.

[reddsun1]

that is perhaps the dumbest idea I've ever heard, ever.

Yes. 40+ years on, and people still go ga-ga and pay inordinate amounts of money to own Cobras--cars synonymous with the guy that cobbled them together using that same "formula," so much so that they're known as "Shelbys" rather than AC's (the company that actually made the car to begin with). Yes, dumb idea indeed...

Yes, but the move was the other way.

Ah, ok. mea culpa. Knew there was a connection there; just couldn't remember which way it went.

[Agent ONE]

Yes. 40+ years on, and people still go ga-ga and pay inordinate amounts of money to own Cobras--cars synonymous with the guy that cobbled them together using that same "formula," so much so that they're known as "Shelbys" rather than AC's (the company that actually made the car to begin with). Yes, dumb idea indeed...

...

I agree with your observation... The Shelby name seems to be gold with american automotive engineering. I think the reason is, most everything associated with American automotive engineering is humiliating... 99% of designs that come out of this country, are on a scale from boring, to horrible. By comparison, Shelby is off the charts here.

[yellowlightman]

I agree with your observation... The Shelby name seems to be gold with american automotive engineering. I think the reason is, most everything associated with American automotive engineering is humiliating... 99% of designs that come out of this country, are on a scale from boring, to horrible. By comparison, Shelby is off the charts here.

This x1000.

[reddsun1]

I agree with your observation... The Shelby name seems to be gold with american automotive engineering. I think the reason is, most everything associated with American automotive engineering is humiliating... 99% of designs that come out of this country, are on a scale from boring, to horrible. By comparison, Shelby is off the charts here.

Just owes to different "paths" of cultural development, I guess. Just have to look at it in the context of how the car cultures have evolved in America vs Europe and elsewhere, and why it's so centered around big, robust designs and V8's. Auto journalist Peter Egan puts it much more succinctly than I ever could, in his musings on the differences between old American cars and British (ever hear the joke about old English cars' miles are measured like dog-years?):

"...Well, British cars of the '50s and '60s tend to be much more charming and "sublime," per mile, than the average American car from the same era, but American cars have a much greater tendency to stay fixed, once you fix them. Also, the electrical systems tend to post-date Ben Franklin and his kite experiment. They were actually built to take you somewhere--and back--on the American continent, which is quite large. And when they finally do break, they're easier to fix...

Ever seen a 327 Chevy where you had to pull the heads and pan to do a water pump?

Nope. You can do one yourself in the parking lot of an auto parts store--using a cheap Chinese box wrench you bought in the store for $1.99. Your high school friends can watch and drink beer while green antifreeze pools beneath their feet...

North America is a very large place, and the Isles are fairly small. The 60's London couple who drove to Brighton on vacation might have found it hard to imagine what it meant to drive across Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah and Nevada to visit one's grandparents in San Francisco...

Now that we're all one big happy family of world trade and shared engineering, cars from England are about as durable as cars from anywhere else (though one or two brands could still use "a little work"). But when the Elan was produced, England was, well, more insular. And our two dissimilar land masses seem to have created different expectations of how many times a piston should go up and down before the rings are worn out, or how many rotations of a fan blade should finish off a water pump seal.

Highway development, of course, made a big difference, too. A friend of mine from Liverpool once told me that the stamina of British cars improved tremendously after the four-lane Motorway system opened up in Britain. "We didn't know why you Americans were always blowing up the old Mini engines until we tried going 80 mph for several hours in a straight line."

Nothing like a good long day on the Interstate to find out if your engine has an adequate number of main bearings. Or driving through Death Valley in summer to see if your radiator is big enough...The U.S. was a tough environment for cars from a cool, small island with lovely twisting lanes. American cars simply had to be more durable, or no one would buy them..."

[Bri]

Just owes to different "paths" of cultural development, I guess. Just have to look at it in the context of how the car cultures have evolved in America vs Europe and elsewhere, and why it's so centered around big, robust designs and V8's. Auto journalist Peter Egan puts it much more succinctly than I ever could, in his musings on the differences between old American cars and British (ever hear the joke about old English cars' miles are measured like dog-years?):

Culture has somewhat to do with differences in taste in regard to models, brands, interior etc. but I don't believe he difference in countries in terms size or weather conditions is as important to car culture as Peter Egan makes it out to be. In the end it's all about money: income, fuel prices and taxes. Post-WW2 British cars were poorly built and tariffs kept out the competition. Consumers had a choice between a bad car or no car. In the end this protectionism killed the UK car industry as the incentive to modernize came far too late.

Robust designs and over-sized engines are great when durability matters the most to a car buyer. But in continental Europe and Japan where cars are taxed on size and weight and where fuel prices have historically been 3 to 4 times as high as in the US, buyers will have different priorities. I'm sure car fans there love performance cars just as much anyone else but under those conditions a hot hatchback becomes more appealing then a V8 muscle car.

[reddsun1]

Culture has somewhat to do with differences in taste in regard to models, brands, interior etc. but I don't believe he difference in countries in terms size or weather conditions is as important to car culture as Peter Egan makes it out to be. In the end it's all about money: income, fuel prices and taxes. Post-WW2 British cars were poorly built and tariffs kept out the competition. Consumers had a choice between a bad car or no car. In the end this protectionism killed the UK car industry as the incentive to modernize came far too late.

Robust designs and over-sized engines are great when durability matters the most to a car buyer. But in continental Europe and Japan where cars are taxed on size and weight and where fuel prices have historically been 3 to 4 times as high as in the US, buyers will have different priorities. I'm sure car fans there love performance cars just as much anyone else but under those conditions a hot hatchback becomes more appealing then a V8 muscle car.

Oh definitely. There's a lot of other factors at play to be sure--like the influx of Japanese manufacturers in the '60s and '70s, that began to show that reliability could be achieved in smaller, more economical packaging. The excerpts were taken from an article that was definitely subjective; just Egan's musings on his own personal preferences when it came to choosing an old car for his "next restoration project." It's definitely a narrow look at car culture; but I think it does offer a nice tidbit of insight into why a lot of Americans were so infatuated with big cars and V8s for so long.

Australia is a neat microcosm of automotive culture as well. I've come to greatly admire Aussie musclecars; from HQ Monaros, to Toranas, to E38/E49 Chargers; and of course, those beautiful Falcons. Very far ahead of their time in the way of performance features and market segmentation. Family sedans like the SLR 5000s, and "Phase" Falcons could arguably be considered progenitors to modern sports-sedans.

Edited September 23, 2010 by reddsun1

[areaseven]

Lamborghini is currently working on the successor to the Murciélago. Currently rumored to be called "Jota", a test mule based on the Murciélago was spotted at Nürburgring.

(Quote-protected because Wanzerfan is a dumbass.)

[reddsun1]

Lamborghini is currently working on the successor to the Murciélago. Currently rumored to be called "Jota", a test mule based on the Murciélago was spotted at Nürburgring.

(Quote-protected because Wanzerfan is a dumbass.)

Dammit--when is Lamborghini going to get around to producing the new Miura? [rhetorical]

Edited September 24, 2010 by reddsun1

[anime52k8]

Dammit--when is Lamborghini going to get around to producing the new Miura? [rhetorical]

never, Lamborghini is far too busy build ugly cars and

. Edited September 24, 2010 by anime52k8

[reddsun1]

never, Lamborghini is far too busy build ugly cars and

.

That driving aggressively would perhaps be the 2nd best job in the entire world. IIRC, Lamborghini has a regular "test" driver, who must give each car produced a shakedown run after it comes off the production line [i may be mistaken though; perhaps it's Ferrari?].

But the all-time BEST job in the WORLD [for a car guy] would have to be: safety car driver, for the F1 World Championship.

Don't get me wrong; I understand it's a very important, ultra-high pressure job. But still; basically, you get to drive a kick-ass powerful car, at some of the most storied and challenging tracks in the world. While the race cars may look like they're crawling during caution periods, "brisk" is an understatement for the pace that the safety car must maintain to prevent the cars from overheating while under yellow. If you're ever able to hear audio of the safety car going by the cameras during an F1 broadcast, one can hear that the driver is actually giving the car a real caning to keep ahead of the racers. So i.e.: at least 18 weekends a year, you get to travel the world, flog an ultra-high performance exotic road car for all it's worth at the greatest tracks anywhere, and get PAID to do it. Not to mention, you can boast that you can "finish" ahead of the best drivers in the world, every time you take to the track...

If I could get away with it, I would gladly murder puppies, burn kittens, slit the throat of a perfect stranger to have that job...

Edited September 24, 2010 by reddsun1

[reddsun1]

That driving aggressively would perhaps be the 2nd best job in the entire world. IIRC, Lamborghini has a regular "test" driver, who must give each car produced a shakedown run after it comes off the production line [i may be mistaken though; perhaps it's Ferrari?].

But the all-time BEST job in the WORLD [for a car guy] would have to be: safety car driver, for the F1 World Championship.

Don't get me wrong; I understand it's a very important, ultra-high pressure job. But still; basically, you get to drive a kick-ass powerful car, at some of the most storied and challenging tracks in the world. While the race cars may look like they're crawling during caution periods, "brisk" is an understatement for the pace that the safety car must maintain to prevent the cars from overheating while under yellow. If you're ever able to hear audio of the safety car going by the cameras during an F1 broadcast, one can hear that the driver is actually giving the car a real caning to keep ahead of the racers. So i.e.: at least 18 weekends a year, you get to travel the world, flog an ultra-high performance exotic road car for all it's worth at the greatest tracks anywhere, and get PAID to do it. Not to mention, you can boast that you can "finish" ahead of the best drivers in the world, every time you take to the track...

If I could get away with it, I would gladly murder puppies, burn kittens, slit the throat of a perfect stranger to have that job...

Okay, I have to take that back. I'm no monster. I'd reserve that last one for a more personal dream of mine....but them puppies and kittens would be good as gone; just say the word. But I'd gladly beat to a bloody pulp any mother fu**er that'd try to stand in my way, if it meant landing that ride...

Edited September 24, 2010 by reddsun1

[Shadow]

Well the 2012 Ford Focus ST is in the works and will be coming to this side of the pond. No word on an RS version yet. It's power numbers seem to put it right between the VW GTI and cars like the WRX and Mazdaspeed 3. Not real fond of the grille compared to the Mk.2 Focus though but it's still much better then the current Focus design sold in the US.

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Ford/2012-Ford-Focus-ST-3.jpg

There is also a Ford Fiesta ST in the works.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Shadow

[Gaijin]

Looks like a fish.

[ron5864]

Are any of you "hypermiling" your car to save gas/petrol/diesel? If so, what are the gains in fuel economy?

After reading about it in the news last year, I experimented with some "hypermiling" driving techniques. They do work and I got about 15% improvement in my car(Mazda3) without driving any slower. There were no illegal modifications. The only thing I did to my car was increasing the tire pressure to the maximum PSI limit, 44PSI. There is no sign of unusual tire wear after 10,000 miles.

[David Hingtgen]

Bumping up the PSI definitely helps. 5psi over stock really actually feels right for my car--everyone on the forum agrees, "the manual has to be wrong"---*everything* is better at 5 over stock for my car. Going to 10 over helps MPG even more, but you start trading ride comfort etc. I did 8 over once for a trip, seemed ok. Great mileage.

Now, some of the biggest parts of hypermiling is to avoid braking/stopping---in short, keep your inertia constant. Well, that's absolutely required when driving in snow and ice---anyone who doesn't get that concept, ends up sliding around and crashing. And we winter drivers abhor people who don't get that idea. One person in a line of 15 can screw up everything. Fishtailing wildly up a hill means you are actually doing "worse than average". So frankly, many midwesterners etc drive like that all the time, as it's both practice for the winter when it takes all your skill just to be able to do it half as well, and it's better MPG anyways. Nothing teaches you more about "road feel", "steering feedback" or most of all--INERTIA, than sliding on ice...

I've always thought "hypermiling" is more like "Californians pretending what it's like to drive in snow, without realizing it"

Seriously, many of the techniques/concepts are the same----because on snow and ice, you want to avoid changes whenever possible--steady everything. Don't race to a light and sit--go JUST the right speed that it'll be green when you get there. Try to maintain your momentum up a hill by any means possible whether it's adjusting your speed or timing the lights at the beginning of it---accelerating from a dead stop up the hill takes the most gas of anything---and requires the most traction!

PS---high PSI is good for winter driving, too. Skinny, high-psi tires often do the best in deep snow. This is why winter wheel/tires combos are often -1 or -2 compared to stock.

[Ghost Train]

The only proven technique to drive safely through the Michigan winter is called VPN, aka working from home .

I have seen some stories about hypermiling, some of those techniques were pretty scary, some were just lol, like wearing an ice-pack vest in lieu of turning on the A/C. Oh well I'm sure they work though. Here in Michigan, I used to take I-96 to work which was just a pain in the butt. A trip that normally takes 30 minutes, takes 90 minutes during rush hour. I have since started using local roads, and even though I will probably hit 2 to 3 red lights on my way out, I am stopping far less than I would than on the damm Interstate (oh the irony). I've also noticed quite a noticeable reduction in my petrol usage.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Ghost Train

[David Hingtgen]

You're in Michigan, yet you use the term "petrol"?

[Ghost Train]

I could just call it gas (as the locals say), but the ridiculously expensive stuff that powers my car is clearly liquid. Sure, there is gasoline, which is a viable option too. Petrol just sounds better to me. In my line of work I interact a lot with Europeans & Asians so I guess some of their vocabulary is rubbing off on me.

(Note: we call soda or any carbonated beverage: pop)

[David Hingtgen]

Well I say pop too, as all Iowans do.

But I've always disliked the term petrol for being so unspecific---kerosene, benzene, gasoline, lamp fuel, bunker oil, and vaseline are all "petroleum".

[areaseven]

Jaguar's latest concept vehicle, the C-X75, is a hybrid supercar powered by two mini-turbines and four electric motors that generate a total of 778 bhp and 1180 lb-ft torque. Theoretically, it can go from 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and achieve a top speed of 205 mph. Pretty disappointing numbers, considering the technology it uses.

(Quote-protected because Wanzerfan is still a dumbass.)

2010 Jaguar C-X75 Concept

[anime52k8]

Jaguar's latest concept vehicle, the C-X75, is a hybrid supercar powered by two mini-turbines and four electric motors that generate a total of 778 bhp and 1180 lb-ft torque. Theoretically, it can go from 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and achieve a top speed of 205 mph. Pretty disappointing numbers, considering the technology it uses.

(Quote-protected because Wanzerfan is still a dumbass.)

2010 Jaguar C-X75 Concept

this is unbelievably cool and yet really sad at the same time.

[reddsun1]

this is unbelievably cool and yet really sad at the same time.

Sad? How so?

1180 ft-lbs of torque. Lord, what fun that must be, to stomp on the accelerator and feel all that thrust kicking in! Remember, HP is a function of Torque--it's that 1180 ft-lbs that'll yank you back in the seat and probably make your face feel like it's peeling backwards...