It will be illegal to re-sell used toys

[xstoys]

Bad news...!!!

http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/01060...e.466a87af.html

[drifand]

Doesn't affect 80% of the collectors here... Yamato don't do TOYS. :-P

[jenius]

I don't think that ought to affect Macross at all... I think all Yamato products are 15 and up and there's no question that any products before then were safe from lead contamination.

[m0n5t3r]

good news for MISB collectors...

[Jasonc]

Putting the Macross issue aside, that is just a stupid law. Think of all the store owners that have thrift shops that sell used children's stuff. Damn, what about my old original Star Wars toys... I can't sell those??? Screw that. This law is just absolutely stupid, and with no explanation to the public, how can they push something with no explanation. It seems like big government dictating to the people what they can, can't purchase. No longer can an adult buy certain things without government saying yes or no? It's a bad move. Next, they'll be telling us we can only buy certain cars, and certain foods, and anything else must go through one of their programs to get permission. What a joke.

[David Hingtgen]

I think ebay's legal team will be working overtime...

[jenius]

Seems like the world would better be served if all used toys just needed to carry a warning, "Sucking this toy may be bad for your health."

[eugimon]

awesome, instead of putting pressure on the companies (both the US firms that outsource to china and the chinese companies that actually make the crap) to stop poisoning us, lets put the pressure and onus on the end user.

but then again, when china owns over 2 TRILLION dollars (in various forms) and is investing over a billion dollars a day, I guess it's best not to piss them off right?

[Vermillion21]

I think ebay's legal team will be working overtime...

agreed ...

[VFTF1]

Well, at this rate, I'm just accustomed to the idea that the Soviet Union didn't go away, it just moved its' base of operations to America - and no, that's not a joke, but a sad statement of fact. This is why I don't live in the USA anymore.

On the "bright" side - laws like these are made moot by he legal category of "adult collectible." Retailers just have to label used toys as adult collectibles and viola - no problem.

In fact - if you look at how the toy market has been developing of late, you will notice that it's all been "growing up" - note how on BBTS now they even have the warning labels next to practicaly every product warning that the product is an adult collectible.

I also have parents write to my shop asking about products for their kids - and I find myself compelled to write them back that say Metroplex is an ADULT collectible and is produced as a replica of a figure from the 80s and therefore does not meet toy safety standard laws and is not suitable for children. The parents probably think I'm a nutt for doing it and wonder "what the hell would an adult want with something like this Metroplex figure" - but I have to protect myself from any eventual legal dangers.

In the end - people will simply end up calling the items something OTHER than children's clothes/toys.

This is already happening.

WHY do you think the notion of "adult collectible" is so popular now for goods which - by any stretch of the common sense imagination - are made to be played with like toys?

Simple: because store owners can thereby get around any potential legal hurddles with regard to children's toy safety laws.

In Europe, for instance, all toys need to have a CE marking to be sold legally. This would mean that if you import items like Macross or Gundam which don't have these markings then you should (a) put the markings on yourself (extra cost + ruins the MISB status of some items like - say - Transformers or (b) just designate them adult collectibles and scaled models (which by law do not need to have such markings).

Everywhere you go, the push is on to essentially suck the creativity out of children's toys.

The adult collectibles will end up being the coolest toys with the best sculpts and inovations while the children's toy market will essentially end up being ridiculous goop.

In any event - enforcing this type of law would be nearly impossible, and getting around it by designating your items as collectibles for adults would be the way to go.

Still - a stupid law - and of course few people will really protest because for the mass of people "they're just toys - and toys need to be safe so my kids don't die."

This kind of stuff is so freakin' ridiculous. But - that's life. I'm sure there will thankfully be a million loopholes in the law and a few precedential court cases.

Meanwhile legal businesses will at least be heartened when ebay shuts down illegal, non-tax paying dealers.

Still, in the long run this type of law will only destroy some peoples' businesses and make selling old Transformers toys something you need to do while hiding in a dark alley...

Pete

[doodler7]

So can what if we want to donate old toys, will it be illegal?

[VFTF1]

Good question. Or how about if a big brother who has "grown out of" his toys wants to give them to their younger brother ?

Technically, it just says it will be illegal to "sell" them - but I think that judging by the lack of responses from the government agency when asked, we can suppose that they themselves don't understand the law they're supposed to be enforcing. I wonder who wrote it? Was it Congress that passed it? (should be) or is this another case of an agency writing up arbitrary rules as part of their "mandate" that results from the bill that founded the agency?

In any case, I expect that they are busy trying to figure out how to go about implementing this and what it means.

But yeah - in general - way to go. Great idea, especially during an economic crisis - let's make it even HARDER for people to do business.

But I wouldn't stop there.

Here's my list of what they can do next:

1. Prohibit the sale of Used Cars

This terrible idea that every American can afford a car and feel the joy and freedom of crusing the highways is just a powderkeg of dangers waiting to explode. Think of all the traffic accidents we'd prevent. Think of the children that WOULDN'T be run over by used cars.

Do you know how many children are killed by used-car drivers per year? MORE than soldiers killed in Iraq! Really. So I think that for the children, used cars should be banned.

Mary Antoinette said of the french peasants during the Revolution: "let them eat cake."

Now America's government can tell them "let them ride bycicles."

As stupid as this sounds - that's probably what these guys do all day. Sit around and wonder what ELSE they can prohibit...

Pete

[ff95gj]

I am confused... What if I say it is unused? Does that count as a resale?

If not, probably everyone would learn to lie. "Opened to check parts only", etc.

Edited January 8, 2009 by ff95gj

[Cent]

Pshaw. Buying new toys increases expenditure! Good for economy!

:3

[Mechamaniac]

They'll NEVER be able to enforce that.

[kensei]

They'll NEVER be able to enforce that.

You've just jinxed it. I'll guarantee that it will come in.

[VT 1010]

I just posted this in the OT forum. I guess I missed the thread here.

The law doesn't apply to just toys, but all childrens' products. This includes clothes too. This will have a dramatic effect on places such as thrift stores, yard sales, and flea markets. I know of a couple of local places that sell primarily old toys. This law won't help them. I wonder if this applies to video games as well.

I guess George Orwell was a prophet...

Should we get started on the black toy market now?

Looking to score some "Yams"? I got some great "product". 100% pure Chinese plastic...

[Bri]

The adult collectibles will end up being the coolest toys with the best sculpts and inovations while the children's toy market will essentially end up being ridiculous goop.

Think this already happened. If I compare the G1 Transformers, GI Joe Mask, Zoids and Dinorider toys which I played with as a kid to the stuff you can buy now in Toys stores. I feel kids now got the worse end of the deal.

[Mechamaniac]

You've just jinxed it. I'll guarantee that it will come in.

Oh, I didn't say that it wouldn't come in. What I said was that they will not be able to enforce it. There are a ton of stupid, useless laws. Try and tell a cop who is working long hours for too little pay dealing with the scum of the Earth that he has to go bust the chops of some guy running a kids consignment store. I'm sure he'll get right on it....

[magicsp00n]

So, who is concerned enough to contact their congressman?

[VFTF1]

So, who is concerned enough to contact their congressman?

Sorry to be the pessimist, but contacting your congressman about a stupid law is like contacting the guy who mugged you in the morning to ask him to please not do it in the evening too.

Pete

[holytoledo69]

Sorry to be the pessimist, but contacting your congressman about a stupid law is like contacting the guy who mugged you in the morning to ask him to please not do it in the evening too.

Pete

lol thats funny!! But yeah..there goes my future business with ebay

[Apollo Leader]

Hopefully this will all be straightened out, but once again this is further evidence that nanny state, big government does not work.

[cool8or]

Understanding that this law is to protect AMERICAN children, what's up with overseas sellings? Can I purchase used toys from USA? Or otherwise: Can I sell used toys to an American?

[VFTF1]

Lone wolf wrote:

Bullsh1t.

It's just sensationalist journalism and doesn't apply to anyone here. Nowhere does it call for blanket prohibition on all used toys. It just means that after 2/10/2009, all children's products sold by retailers must comply with the new lead limit of 600 parts per million.

Here are quotes from the actual legislation:

QUOTE

SEC. 101. CHILDREN’S PRODUCTS CONTAINING LEAD; LEAD PAINT

RULE.

(a) GENERAL LEAD BAN.—

(1) TREATMENT AS A BANNED HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE.—

Except as expressly provided in subsection (b) beginning on

the dates provided in paragraph (2), any children’s product

(as defined in section 3(a)(16) of the Consumer Product Safety

Act (15 U.S.C. 2052(a)(16))) that contains more lead than the

limit established by paragraph (2) shall be treated as a banned

hazardous substance under the Federal Hazardous Substances

Act (15 U.S.C. 1261 et seq.).

(2) LEAD LIMIT.—

(A) 600 PARTS PER MILLION.—Except as provided in

subparagraphs (B), ©, (D), and (E), beginning 180 days

after the date of enactment of this Act, the lead limit

referred to in paragraph (1) is 600 parts per million total

lead content by weight for any part of the product.

So are Yamato/Bandai Macross toys considered children's products? No, because they don't meet the guidelines to be considered children's toys. See below.

QUOTE

(e) DEFINITIONS.—

(1) DEFINED TERMS.—As used in this section:

...

(B) The term ‘‘children’s toy’’ means a consumer

product designed or intended by the manufacturer for a

child 12 years of age or younger for use by the child

when the child plays.

(2) DETERMINATION GUIDELINES.—

(A) AGE.—In determining whether products described

in paragraph (1) are designed or intended for use by a

child of the ages specified, the following factors shall be

considered:

(i) A statement by a manufacturer about the

intended use of such product, including a label on

such product if such statement is reasonable.

(ii) Whether the product is represented in its packaging,

display, promotion, or advertising as appropriate

for use by children of the ages specified.

(iii) Whether the product is commonly recognized

by consumers as being intended for use by a child

of the ages specified.

Does this legislation effect us if we wish to sell children's toys on ebay? No, because as private individuals, we don't meet the criteria to be consider a retailer under this particular piece of legislation. See below.

QUOTE

(ii) The term ‘retailer’ has the meaning given

that term in section 3 of the Consumer Product Safety

Act (15 U.S.C. 2052), but does not include an individual

whose selling activity is intermittent and does not

constitute a trade or business.

Finally, this legislation can be rendered toothless if your domiciliary state can demonstrate that it's an undue burden.

QUOTE

(h) RULEMAKING TO CONSIDER EXEMPTION FROM PREEMPTION.—

...

(B) does not unduly burden interstate commerce.

In determining the burden, if any, of a State or political subdivision

standard or regulation on interstate commerce, the

Commission shall consider and make appropriate (as determined

by the Commission in its discretion) findings on the

technological and economic feasibility of complying with such

standard or regulation, the cost of complying with such

standard or regulation, the geographic distribution of the consumer

product to which the standard or regulation would apply,

the probability of other States or political subdivisions applying

for an exemption under this subsection for a similar standard

or regulation, and the need for a national, uniform standard

under this Act for such consumer product.

So there's nothing to worry about, just some desperate or ignorant news sites looking for you to click on their articles.

So - I'm a lot more calm reading this.

Nothing to see here folks; move along.

Basically - it looks like Congress trying to pretend that they're "doing something" about the safety of toys without actually doing any damage to the toy market.

In any event... it does show us one thing:

There is absolutely nothing that the government can't do. Any sane limits on government power don't exist any more and the very fact that we EXPECT that it would be possible for them to ban the sale of used toys just demonstrates how bad things have become.

Even if - thank goodness - this particular law has enough loopholes and amendments to it to make it toothless and to basically not shut down a lucrative and important market - it still is scary that IF THEY WANTED to - they could....

But thanks lonewolf for clearing up this one.

Pete

[protostar8]

Seriously, this appears to be nothing more than a PR law (good for public relations but not enforced). For them to enforce this, they would have to hire a HUGE crew of people to search day after day for thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of items. I just don't see how it's possible. Hell, stores like TRU would lose 80% of their stores if this was enforced as it has been interpreted and I just don't see that happening.

The US law system is a corrupted wasteland of useless laws that hurt people more than help them.

[Zentrandude]

(Calls up the spirit of A1)

I say toys should have more lead in them. look at the children they are getting fat, if they put so much lead in the toys that the weight of the toys will bulk up the little muscles of the children we would have an army of arnold kids.

Die from heart attack or from heavy metal poisoning and besides only the weaker ones would go thus leaving the ones resistant to heavy metals .

Seriously this is meaningless unless you own a toy company or you collect playskool toys.

Im curious if this will affect donation org like toys for tots and such.

[ntsan]

From another thread it state that the toys manufactured after the effective date of the new standard.

So those with existing toys do not matter I think

[Letigre]

Seems like the world would better be served if all used toys just needed to carry a warning, "Sucking this toy may be bad for your health."

They should put a warning that "breathing is hazardous to your health" as well.

..Unfortunately, not enough will actually try to quit.

[VFTF1]

I think banning children would go a long way towards keeping them safe.

Pete

[TheLoneWolf]

VFTF1, thanks for posting my earlier response in this thread. Hopefully it managed to defuse the situation.

Anyways, there's been an update today. Retailers who sell used toys are exempt from this legislation. I've attached a link and my interpretation below. I also decided to repost my old post with the appropriate formatting to make it easier to read.

Since this issue is irrelevant to the sale of Yamato and Bandai Macross toys, I think it's safe to close this thread.

-------------------------

It's just sensationalist journalism and doesn't apply to anyone here. Nowhere does it call for blanket prohibition on all used toys. It just means that after 2/10/2009, all children's products sold by retailers must comply with the new lead limit of 600 parts per million.

Here are quotes from the actual legislation:

SEC. 101. CHILDREN’S PRODUCTS CONTAINING LEAD; LEAD PAINT

RULE.

(a) GENERAL LEAD BAN.—

(1) TREATMENT AS A BANNED HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE.—

Except as expressly provided in subsection (b) beginning on

the dates provided in paragraph (2), any children’s product

(as defined in section 3(a)(16) of the Consumer Product Safety

Act (15 U.S.C. 2052(a)(16))) that contains more lead than the

limit established by paragraph (2) shall be treated as a banned

hazardous substance under the Federal Hazardous Substances

Act (15 U.S.C. 1261 et seq.).

(2) LEAD LIMIT.—

(A) 600 PARTS PER MILLION.—Except as provided in

subparagraphs (B), ©, (D), and (E), beginning 180 days

after the date of enactment of this Act, the lead limit

referred to in paragraph (1) is 600 parts per million total

lead content by weight for any part of the product.

So are Yamato/Bandai Macross toys considered children's products? No, because they don't meet the guidelines to be considered children's toys. See below.

(e) DEFINITIONS.—

(1) DEFINED TERMS.—As used in this section:

...

(B) The term ‘‘children’s toy’’ means a consumer

product designed or intended by the manufacturer for a

child 12 years of age or younger for use by the child

when the child plays.

(2) DETERMINATION GUIDELINES.—

(A) AGE.—In determining whether products described

in paragraph (1) are designed or intended for use by a

child of the ages specified, the following factors shall be

considered:

(i) A statement by a manufacturer about the

intended use of such product, including a label on

such product if such statement is reasonable.

(ii) Whether the product is represented in its packaging,

display, promotion, or advertising as appropriate

for use by children of the ages specified.

(iii) Whether the product is commonly recognized

by consumers as being intended for use by a child

of the ages specified.

Does this legislation effect us if we wish to sell children's toys on ebay? No, because as private individuals, we don't meet the criteria to be considered a retailer under this particular piece of legislation. See below.

(ii) The term ‘retailer’ has the meaning given

that term in section 3 of the Consumer Product Safety

Act (15 U.S.C. 2052), but does not include an individual

whose selling activity is intermittent and does not

constitute a trade or business.

Finally, this legislation can be rendered toothless if your domiciliary state can demonstrate that it's an undue burden. See below.

(h) RULEMAKING TO CONSIDER EXEMPTION FROM PREEMPTION.—

...

(B) does not unduly burden interstate commerce.

In determining the burden, if any, of a State or political subdivision

standard or regulation on interstate commerce, the

Commission shall consider and make appropriate (as determined

by the Commission in its discretion) findings on the

technological and economic feasibility of complying with such

standard or regulation, the cost of complying with such

standard or regulation, the geographic distribution of the consumer

product to which the standard or regulation would apply,

the probability of other States or political subdivisions applying

for an exemption under this subsection for a similar standard

or regulation, and the need for a national, uniform standard

under this Act for such consumer product.

UPDATE: The Cosumer Product Safety Commission just issued a bulletin clarifying that this new legislation does not apply to retailers who sell used toys. So all your Goodwill and thrift stores are exempt. See below.

Sellers of used children’s products, such as thrift stores and consignment stores, are not required to certify that those products meet the new lead limits, phthalates standard or new toy standards.

[David Hingtgen]

Well they're about 2 days late, should have clarified that immediately, or after the numerous calls they got.

[GobotFool]

Well they're about 2 days late, should have clarified that immediately, or after the numerous calls they got.

So there will be no toy revolution? I can't lead a battle charge while shouting, "they can take our lives, but they'll never take our toys?" How disapointing.

[SchizophrenicMC]

So, who is concerned enough to contact their congressman?

Hm... Except my congressman's (and, literally, my governor's) a dick. Man... This pisses me off. Now, how'm I gonna get more Zoids? And that article was on an Austinian article... I live in Dallas, man. GRR...

[VFTF1]

Hm... Except my congressman's (and, literally, my governor's) a dick. Man... This pisses me off. Now, how'm I gonna get more Zoids? And that article was on an Austinian article... I live in Dallas, man. GRR...

Well, I hate to contradict my earlier blanket pesimissm, but given you live in Texas... you do have one Congressman in a nearby district who isn't a dick and who actually would do something about this kind of thing if you contacted him.

Pete