Height of the Zentradi

[Mr March]

I think my biggest WTF moment around Zentraedi height is in the Macross 7 episode about the lost Protoculture base. Exsedol goes to the base in person - IIRC he's suspended under 2 helicopters and accompanied by a couple gerwalks - and he appears to be 4-5 time the height of a Valkyrie! And he's a short Zentran. ??? indeed.

Exedol's height varies greatly between the SDF Macross series and the DYRL film. However, Exedol's height is not internally inconsistent within each version, so he's not really a scale problem. His size difference from the series to the film is simply reinterpretation, much like his green skin and oddly shaped skull.

In the SDF Macross series, Exedol appears among the shortest of the Zentradi, possibly tied with Warera Nantes. If we used the chart I made on the first page of this thread, Exedol would be smaller than Milia. SDF Macross episode 7 shows Exedol is somewhere over half the size of Britai, suggesting he's about 7-8 meters tall.

In the DYRL? film, Exedol appears much larger than his appearance in the series and is possibly among the larger Zentradi. Exedol is still smaller than Britai, but Exedol is roughly the same size or larger than a Zentradi soldier. A line art size comparison chart in The Gold Book confirms Exedol is somewhere around 10-12 meters tall. I'll post a picture of that comparison later today.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Mr March

[Mr March]

Here's the picture I was talking about earlier, taken from Macross The Movie (aka, The Gold Book).

[taksraven]

Here are some more pics on the topic. Most if not all have probably been seen in these forums before. Also, one pic has a little itty bitty pic of a naked female that you can barely see. Don't hassle me about it, just grow up if you are offended.

Taksraven

Edited January 17, 2009 by taksraven

[KingNor]

i love that the zent pods' guns are basically just opperated by hand in the lowest tech manner possible, i wonder how they're aimed, or if the zents just fire randomly in all directions.

[ahiachris]

I have some pics to contribute. They were found when I am doing research on the Power Armour.

The picture with the Glaug means that the version that Captain is goin to release will be a very large one when compared side by side with the injectin kit by ARII

Edited January 18, 2009 by ahiachris

[JB0]

i love that the zent pods' guns are basically just opperated by hand in the lowest tech manner possible, i wonder how they're aimed, or if the zents just fire randomly in all directions.

The real question is... are the smaller guns aimed the same way?

Because it'd be hilarious watching a zentradi troop shaking his head to aim the back guns.

[KingNor]

The real question is... are the smaller guns aimed the same way?

Because it'd be hilarious watching a zentradi troop shaking his head to aim the back guns.

or the toe lasers? god help this guy if he tries to track and fire all of them at once.

[taksraven]

i love that the zent pods' guns are basically just opperated by hand in the lowest tech manner possible, i wonder how they're aimed, or if the zents just fire randomly in all directions.

It isn't very advanced is it. How does he fire both guns and do everything else at the same time.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

I have some pics to contribute. They were found when I am doing research on the Power Armour.

The picture with the Glaug means that the version that Captain is goin to release will be a very large one when compared side by side with the injectin kit by ARII

I thought that the warriors arms went down into the units arms and operated them like waldoes?

Taksraven

[JB0]

or the toe lasers? god help this guy if he tries to track and fire all of them at once.

Epilepsy: Genetic defect in humans, way of life in zentradi.

[Mr March]

I have some pics to contribute. They were found when I am doing research on the Power Armour.

The picture with the Glaug means that the version that Captain is goin to release will be a very large one when compared side by side with the injectin kit by ARII

These are interesting pictures. I believe I've seen them before. Were they taken from that Zentradi fan site? I seem to have misplaced the link, but I know I had that site bookmarked. It's a fairly interesting little website. If you have an updated link, let me know.

The Nousjadeul-Ger and Queadluun-Rau appear largely correct. Very good depictions of the relative scale (assuming 10 meter tall Zentradi).

The proportions for the Glaug and Reguld are way off; basically the pod parts of the artist's mecha are too small and the cockpits too spacious, leading to much larger mecha sizes. But in his defense, the artist does illustrate that when we assume a 10 meter tall pilot, both Zentradi mecha are not large enough to accommodate such a pilot at their official numbers of 16.55 meters for the Glaug and 15.12 meters for the Reguld.

More specifically:

The Glaug would have to be almost 30 meters tall to accommodate the pilot like the artist has illustrated it. But his Glaug proportions are off, the Glaug pod section is larger and the cockpit less spacious than the artist has shown and the pilot sits both lower and more forward.

The Reguld is a similar situation in which the Reguld pod is larger and the cockpit less spacious than shown by the artist, leading to a nearly 30 meter tall Reguld. Again, the pilot's seat is supposed to be almost flush with the bottom of the pod section and the pod section is larger than shown.

To accommodate 10 meter tall pilots, both the Glaug and the Reguld have to be roughly 18-19 meters tall rather than 16.55 meters or 15.12 meters. But they aren't off by that much. Maybe his over-sized Glaug could accommodate the nearly 12 meter tall Kamjin!

I've attached below a picture which uses the official schematics and more closely follows the line art cockpit drawings. Overall, they are close and again, I think the artist was on the right track.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Mr March

[Mr March]

Liner notes for the Animeigo DVD set list Exedol Folmo as 10.15 meters tall, just a hair taller than the average Zentradi. That was certainly an unexpected find. Thanks to Seto Kaiba for pointing it out to me. I also added the figure to the Macross Compendium profile for Exedol, since it was missing.

Looks like I need to re-read the liner notes. It's been a while.

[ahiachris]

These are interesting pictures. I believe I've seen them before. Were they taken from that Zentradi fan site? I seem to have misplaced the link, but I know I had that site bookmarked. It's a fairly interesting little website. If you have an updated link, let me know.

The link of the fan site that I got my pics

http://zentraedi.org/

[Mr March]

That's the one. Isn't that a great little site? I like his original artwork and the size pictures he made are quite good. He's even got the Zentradi font for download

[regult]

Ok, after reading this thread for a while, I will jump on it with a screencap of episode 25, Macross Frontier:

notice how the valk (Luca??) is actually a bit taller than the Q-rea?! I know she's missing part of the legs due to a previous attack by Brera, but still, use your imagination to attach the legs back and you still get a Q-rea the same size of a RVF-117EX! that's hard on poor Klan Klan who has to fit in the battle suit no matter what size, and still be able to slap a VF-25 in the head, carry super packs, climb out of the Q-rea...squatting, etc!

[anime52k8]

Ok, after reading this thread for a while, I will jump on it with a screencap of episode 25, Macross Frontier:

notice how the valk (Luca??) is actually a bit taller than the Q-rea?! I know she's missing part of the legs due to a previous attack by Brera, but still, use your imagination to attach the legs back and you still get a Q-rea the same size of a RVF-117EX! that's hard on poor Klan Klan who has to fit in the battle suit no matter what size, and still be able to slap a VF-25 in the head, carry super packs, climb out of the Q-rea...squatting, etc!

if you look closely you can see most of Klan's face behind the damaged mech face. hear head is basically the same size as the one on the VF-171. it looks like her waist should be bellow where the mecha's crotch is.

[Mr March]

Oh, that's only one of the few scale errors in Macross Frontier. Klan's first appearance inside the Queadluun-Rea in the Macross Quarter docking bay is by far the worst scale error in the series.

In defense of the picture posted, the original VF-17 Nightmare is a much larger Battroid than the old VF-1 Valkyrie. If you compare the VF-17 Nightmare to the original Queadluun-Rau, they are not that far apart in size. If we assume the Queadluun-Rea and the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus are similar to the VF-17/Q-Rau, then the picture isn't that far off.

Also keep in mind that we lack statistics for the new VF-171 Nightmare Plus. The VF-171 could very well be taller in Battroid mode than the old VF-17. It's certainly slimmer and it has been designed with a longer nose that might transform into a slightly taller torso. Also, the legs look a little longer on the VF-171, but that could be just because they are thinner than the old VF-17.

[sharky]

i love that the zent pods' guns are basically just opperated by hand in the lowest tech manner possible, i wonder how they're aimed, or if the zents just fire randomly in all directions.

No kidding, about the manual operation of the main cannons. But, that doesn't make any sense. How is the pilot supposed to operate the pod and fire the cannons at the same time. It would make better sense to have some sort of targeting computer where the cannons can aim by themselves.

[regult]

Oh, that's only one of the few scale errors in Macross Frontier. Klan's first appearance inside the Queadluun-Rea in the Macross Quarter docking bay is by far the worst scale error in the series.

In defense of the picture posted, the original VF-17 Nightmare is a much larger Battroid than the old VF-1 Valkyrie. If you compare the VF-17 Nightmare to the original Queadluun-Rau, they are not that far apart in size. If we assume the Queadluun-Rea and the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus are similar to the VF-17/Q-Rau, then the picture isn't that far off.

Also keep in mind that we lack statistics for the new VF-171 Nightmare Plus. The VF-171 could very well be taller in Battroid mode than the old VF-17. It's certainly slimmer and it has been designed with a longer nose that might transform into a slightly taller torso. Also, the legs look a little longer on the VF-171, but that could be just because they are thinner than the old VF-17.

My computer's wallpaper is now a screencap of the sequence when Michel is calling Alto in the docking bay and Klan is inside the Q-rea...Michel is barely the height of her head, and he's in first plan, she's behind...whenever she climbs (squeezes) into the armor, catastrophic scale errors occur! in that sequence klan seems at least the same height of the VF-25, if not taller! What unmanageable size should the Q-rea be??? That said, I still wish we had a figure/model of the battle suit to play with someday, but that discussion goes in the toy or model forums!

Edited April 1, 2009 by regult

[RedWolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNJfh4fZXg4

VF-X had a very big Zentradi boss.

[Mr March]

The scale is so wrong in the picture, it appears Klan's helmet cannot fit inside the head unit of her suit

[taksraven]

My computer's wallpaper is now a screencap of the sequence when Michel is calling Alto in the docking bay and Klan is inside the Q-rea...Michel is barely the height of her head, and he's in first plan, she's behind...whenever she climbs (squeezes) into the armor, catastrophic scale errors occur! in that sequence klan seems at least the same height of the VF-25, if not taller! What unmanageable size should the Q-rea be??? That said, I still wish we had a figure/model of the battle suit to play with someday, but that discussion goes in the toy or model forums!

Yep. Its a truly terrible shot scale-wise. And WHERE are her arms going? Did that error get fixed up on Blu-Ray or did they let it though.

Taksraven

[Agent ONE]

...

Scale floats. And it makes me sad.

Compare with Transformers. Those things could fulx their size ten times bigger or smaller depending on what the plot demanded. In comparison SDFM and DYRL are WAY better.

[DestroidDefender]

Here is that WTF moment from Macross 7. How big does Exedol have to be to dwarf the VF-11's like that?

It looks like his head by itself is about as big as a Valkyrie.

[anime52k8]

what the hell is wrong with this show?!?

[Radd]

At any rate, I made up a rough chart showing the comparative sizes of the various Zentradi using the 10 meter rule for the typical Zentran Soldier. I've attached it below.

I've a bit of an issue with this size chart. It doesn't take clothing into consideration. Footwear, headgear, and hair can add to a person's apparent height. We do not measure people from the soles of their shoes, to the top of their hair. Milia in her TV meltrandi flight suit without a helmet would be markedly shorter than Milia in her movie Meltrandi flight suit with helmet. A lot of zentradi footwear adds a significant amount of height, what would amount to a couple inches in human scale. At least, the tv series zentran footwear, and the movie meltran footwear.

When we have stats on someone's height, these stats usually do not reflect hair, helmets, or the additional height added by footwear. In the case of Britia, with no hair and the "flat footed" zentran movie footwear the difference between his actual height and apparent height would be negligible, but it would be more apparent with Kamjin, Millia, and zentran soldiers.

You see?

[sketchley]

Here is that WTF moment from Macross 7. How big does Exedol have to be to dwarf the VF-11's like that?

It looks like his head by itself is about as big as a Valkyrie.

You guys do realize that the VF is behind Exedol, and not in front, or even beside him, right? (Look for the wing disappearing behind his left shoulder.)

Therefore, given only this image, with it's lack of any way to determine how far behind the VFs are, Exedol's size is ambiguous at best.

Now, if once could procure an image from the same shot with what I think looks like a VF in the foreground, it'd be a lot more telling.

[Mr March]

Here is that WTF moment from Macross 7. How big does Exedol have to be to dwarf the VF-11's like that?

It looks like his head by itself is about as big as a Valkyrie.

Without knowing the distance between Exedol and the valkyries flying behind him, this picture is not very useful for determining scale. Since the VF-11C Thunderbolts are in fighter mode and obviously flying behind Exedol, it's likely they are a substantial distance away.

what the hell is wrong with this show?!?

Much more than you'd think

I've a bit of an issue with this size chart.

You see?

That is going to an extreme and only raises more problems. Why stop at hair/helmets/boots? How do you account for pictures drawn in differing perspectives (britai vs. britai)? Or those pictures drawn with different aesthetic proportions (series style vs. dyrl style). There is also much to be said for simplicity in an already perilous exercise of poor size continuity. Fans will constantly be asking why, when looking at the chart, does one 10 meter soldier appear taller than another of the same size.

[Gubaba]

That is going to an extreme and only raises more problems. Why stop at hair/helmets/boots? How do you account for pictures drawn in differing perspectives (britai vs. britai)? Or those pictures drawn with different aesthetic proportions (series style vs. dyrl style). There is also much to be said for simplicity in an already perilous exercise of poor size continuity. Fans will constantly be asking why, when looking at the chart, does one 10 meter soldier appear taller than another of the same size.

Not only that, but this is, after all, a cartoon we're talking about. Sometimes the sizes are exaggerated for dramatic effect (mind you, I can't specifically think of a time this happened in Macross, but it happened all the time in Hokuto no Ken... ).

Edited April 23, 2009 by Gubaba

[Mr March]

Creative license is by far the only unifying explanation. The Zentradi/Meltrandi will be as big or small as a given scene demands. Which is why so many scenes contradict each other both within a single series (SDF Macross) or the franchise as a whole.

My attempt to properly scale the Zentradi/Meltrandi in a chart will be most optimistically a best fit and no more than that.

[Radd]

That is going to an extreme and only raises more problems. Why stop at hair/helmets/boots? How do you account for pictures drawn in differing perspectives (britai vs. britai)? Or those pictures drawn with different aesthetic proportions (series style vs. dyrl style). There is also much to be said for simplicity in an already perilous exercise of poor size continuity. Fans will constantly be asking why, when looking at the chart, does one 10 meter soldier appear taller than another of the same size.

Huh? We're talking about a size chart made up of still images, not throwing a ruler up against the tv every time there's a character on screen. I don't believe it's nearly as extreme as you think. When general measurements for a character are given, it's always safe to assume they are measurements for the character themselves, sans extra height added by hair or worn items. Also, you never take size shown within the animation too seriously. It's far more difficult to keep height consistent in moving hand drawn animation, which is likely put together from the work of dozens, if not hundreds, of artists, than it is to make a consistent size chart for reference.

[Mr March]

I am talking about the line art, not the animation. Some are drawn from a top-down view, others from a bottom-up view. And the art in the chart is clearly showing the DYRL characters are drawn in differing proportions from the SDF Macross versions. Hence the art will have inherent flaws when trying to scale them. But this is all we have to work with, so they are only ever going to be a best fit. Worrying about hair and shoes is striving for an accuracy beyond what is possible given the inherent scale errors just using these pieces of line art.

[DestroidDefender]

Re Exedol in Macross 7 Episode 37 Mystery of the Ruins.

Yes I realize the VF-11s in that one screen cap are behind Exedol. Here are a couple more shots of Exedol showing the Valkyries in close proximity to him and the huge helicopter supporting him. He is shown at least 3-4 Valkyrie heights big.

Exhibit A Exedol in Flight. It's a small picture, but one can see he appears as tall as the heli-lifter that is carrying him. Notice how close the escort VFs are - about arms length.

Exhibit B The grounded heli-lifter. It's 4-5 Valks long itself - huge! A king-sized lifter like this would not be needed if Exedol were about one valk big like a "normal" Zentraedi.

Yes it's artistic license but I wish they were a bit more consistent.

Edited April 25, 2009 by DestroidDefender

[Radd]

More consistent would be nice. Still, don't take the scale shown in these shots too literally. The cockpit of that lifter is like two stories tall in that ground shot.

[JB0]

Compare with Transformers. Those things could fulx their size ten times bigger or smaller depending on what the plot demanded. In comparison SDFM and DYRL are WAY better.

But Transformers is silly and borders on self-parody.

Macross is Serious Business.