Height of the Zentradi

[Mr March]

That's the image we've been talking about. It shows Klan seated with her knees up. I adjusted the picture for some more light and blew it up. I also compared this screen capture to another shot which shows Klan way too large to fit inside properly. Indeed, it's a good thing they don't show the bottom half of the frame in the second picture

[taksraven]

I haven't seen this image yet in this discussion, and it might be relevant. It shows the shear size of Klan's Queadluun, with her sitting in it.

Looks like she has more than enough room to put those long beautiful legs somewhere. Hmm... Amazon Meltran... ^_^

I would say that she is squatting rather than sitting. B)) I guess that during a deep space recon the girls need to go to the bathroom somewhere, unless they are wearing diapers. :lol:

Taksraven

[Letigre]

All this talk of Klan just misses one slight oversight, [macro] Nene was taller.

[edwin3060]

That's the image we've been talking about. It shows Klan seated with her knees up. I adjusted the picture for some more light and blew it up. I also compared this screen capture to another shot which shows Klan way too large to fit inside properly. Indeed, it's a good thing they don't show the bottom half of the frame in the second picture

Now that you put both scenes together we can see how badly drawn they are! Missing shoulder plates, differently drawn face and shoulder plates, etc. With all the anime inaccuracies, I say we take the one that makes the most sense and use that i.e. the top picture, which at least doesn't have Klan having to store her lower torso outside the mecha

[taksraven]

Now that you put both scenes together we can see how badly drawn they are! Missing shoulder plates, differently drawn face and shoulder plates, etc. With all the anime inaccuracies, I say we take the one that makes the most sense and use that i.e. the top picture, which at least doesn't have Klan having to store her lower torso outside the mecha

How about some comparision shots of Milia climbing into her Queadluun-Rau from the original SDF:M for comparison purposes. (The shots from her debut episode I mean.)

Do we have any idea yet of a size comparison between a Queadluun-Rau and a Queadluun-Rea?

And Mr March, I don't think that I have asked this before, but how come there is no mention on your mecha page, of the several dozen short range lasers that seem to be mounted all over the body of the Queadluun-Rau? (You know, the ones that make it look like a Porcupine when it opens fire, wiping out entire squadrons at once)

Taksraven

[sketchley]

(...)

And Mr March, I don't think that I have asked this before, but how come there is no mention on your mecha page, of the several dozen short range lasers that seem to be mounted all over the body of the Queadluun-Rau? (You know, the ones that make it look like a Porcupine when it opens fire, wiping out entire squadrons at once)

Taksraven

Those are the (badly animated) missiles being launched.

See: http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Queadluun-Rau

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Queadluun-Rea

Edited January 11, 2009 by sketchley

[Remko]

That's the image we've been talking about. It shows Klan seated with her knees up. I adjusted the picture for some more light and blew it up. I also compared this screen capture to another shot which shows Klan way too large to fit inside properly. Indeed, it's a good thing they don't show the bottom half of the frame in the second picture

It's strange that in a show which relies heavily on CGI, such misstakes are being made. The top image of Klan in her Queadluun seems alright, but the lower image definately is out of proportion...

Then again, it was mentioned in the show (and therefore is canon) that Klan has a problem with her genes while being micronized. Perhaps the otherway around is also true, and she comes out of teh chamber different sized...

Edited January 11, 2009 by Remko

[taksraven]

Those are the (badly animated) missiles being launched.

I will argue that point..... Here are the shots I am talking about in chronological order....

Ok, not so easy to tell at this stage, and yes, the launchers are OPEN, so maybe missiles being launched.

Ok, first firing stage completing here, most of the shots seem to be directed away from the back of the unit.

Right, now we are at the start of the second firing stage of this weapon and this shot would really seem to suggest that it is an energy/laser weapon being fired rather than missiles. Looks like a brief weapons charge.

Second firing stage well underway, the unit seems to be covered with some sort of energy/laser weapons all firing at once.

Next, further evidence that it is not a badly animated missile launch.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Ok, we all saw the weapon being fired in my last post, now more evidence that this is some sort of beam weapon on the Q-Rau, not missiles.....

Now, the beam shots seem to be going through the Valks, hardly the normal result of a missile attack.

Energy beam dissipates, fatally damaged Valks continue on for a few more seconds.

Milia flies past crippled units as they start to go up.

And they BLOW UP!!! Would a missile attack look like this?

A few seconds later and another similar attack as Milia moves to deliver the spies.

Again, but closer.

Nice little close up of Milia's unit. Yes, the episode was not animated perfectly. This segment of the episode used extreme speed to hide bad shots like this.

Roy does not like Milia!

This shot just because I *heart* destroids.

So there you go. I will admit that that shooting trick for Milias unit was not used too often in the future, (if ever, but I think it was once more), so can we accept this as a weapon this unit has that is normally ignored.

Taksraven

[Bri]

Hmm, those pictures seem to suggest that all the vernier thrusters can be used as a particle beam weapon somehow.

[edwin3060]

Maybe all the vernier thrusters are used to counteract the reaction of firing all the missiles, and there's poor animation, and those valkyries are actually taken out by the missiles that were fired? Makes more sense than a totally unknown laser weapon that covers the entire surface of the Q-Rau that no one, not even SK, talks about.

[Bri]

Maybe all the vernier thrusters are used to counteract the reaction of firing all the missiles, and there's poor animation, and those valkyries are actually taken out by the missiles that were fired? Makes more sense than a totally unknown laser weapon that covers the entire surface of the Q-Rau that no one, not even SK, talks about.

True, then again Milia is a one of a kind pilot, wouldn't put it beyond her to simply overlad the propulsion system and use it as a weapon. Something no other pilot would think of/could do. Would explain why it's not part of the Quads weapon specs.

[edwin3060]

It's a fun conjecture I guess.

[sketchley]

I will argue that point..... Here are the shots I am talking about in chronological order....

(...)

Taksraven

Ok, the onus is on you to explain why it only appears in one action sequence, in one episode; and is not mentioned in even one of the statistics for the Queadlunn-Rau in a variety of Macross related publications.

EDIT: for clarity

Edited January 11, 2009 by sketchley

[taksraven]

Ok, the onus is on you to explain why it only appears in one action sequence, in one episode; and not one of the statistics, which go into detail of the weapon systems of the Queadlunn-Rau, in a variety of Macross publications, do not mention the weapon.

Ok, maybe the *idea* of this as a weapon was quickly abandoned. I will admit to that possibility, who knows, but you must admit that it certainly does LOOK like energy weapons were being fired but the unit.

Actually yes, I will say that it is likely that it was a superweapon that the unit was equipped with that the production team abandoned for some reason. (Possibly, because it was too powerful?? How can you dogfight a unit with such weapons??)

But it was THERE at some stage, you have to give me that much.

We haven't heard from Mr March yet and I would like his opinion on this topic before I consider this discussion closed.

Taksraven

[Knight26]

Well remember any "interesting" propulsion system is also a weapon of mass destruction, so weaponizing the engines would not be unheard of.

[sketchley]

(...)

But it was THERE at some stage, you have to give me that much.

(...)

As you said:

Nice little close up of Milia's unit. Yes, the episode was not animated perfectly. This segment of the episode used extreme speed to hide bad shots like this.

Can anyone confirm if this is an Animefriend episode?

[Mr March]

This discussion of missiles vs. lasers should be sent off to it's own dedicated thread. This thread is for Zentradi height discussion.

Nonetheless, I'll say this much: SDF Macross episode 12 was the first appearance of the Q-Rau and it may not have been known yet by all the animators and numerous sub-contractors where the missile launchers were situated on the Q-Rau. All they knew was that the Q-Rau was a missile swarmer with a payload of over a 100 missiles. So the animators simply animated them firing from all over the mecha, since they lacked knowledge of the launchers.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread, now in progress...

There has been no official Queadluun-Rau vs. Queadluun-Rea size comparison picture published as yet, but it is almost a certainty the Rea is the same size as the Rau (based upon the many instances of scale shown in Macross Frontier). Later in the series, Klan is shown properly scaled to the cockpit (as seen above in my comparison picture). The Q-Rea is shown very close in size to the VF-25F Battroid (15.59 meters) during the attack upon the large Red Vajra unit in episode 4 (which is correct for a 16.75 meter tall Q-Rea, the same as a Q-Rau). The 33rd Marine Battalion Zentradi (assuming 10 meter heights) are properly scaled when compared to the grey Q-Rea mecha seen walking around on Gallia 4.

Now that you put both scenes together we can see how badly drawn they are! Missing shoulder plates, differently drawn face and shoulder plates, etc. With all the anime inaccuracies, I say we take the one that makes the most sense and use that i.e. the top picture, which at least doesn't have Klan having to store her lower torso outside the mecha

The top picture was drawn later in the series than the bottom picture, which would suggest it is likely more accurate since they would have had time to discuss errors and get the scale correct. You'll also note in the bottom picture the forward torso cannons of the Rea are drawn inaccurately (they are actually drawn like Rau cannons) while the top picture corrects this.

It's strange that in a show which relies heavily on CGI, such misstakes are being made. The top image of Klan in her Queadluun seems alright, but the lower image definately is out of proportion...

Mistakes will happen, especially in an animated show where continuity is even more problematic than live action.

It's very likely the Macross Frontier animators had seen the original Macross series, and much like most of us, they had incorrectly assumed Zentradi height = Battle Suit height (Q-Rea). Once they made the mistake, it was too late to reanimate the sequence, but Kawamori (or someone else in the production) gave them a proper scale chart and the animators were told to correct the problem for next time, which they did. Hence Klan appears at the more accurate 8-9 meter height in the later picture (which is the top picture in my comparison picture).

Klan at full size was shown at the same height as her Pixie Squadron pilots, so she does not appear to vary in height when a full sized Meltran.

Can anyone confirm if this is an Animefriend episode?

Just to note for all, it is STAR PRO (the sub-contractor of Anime Friend) largely responsible for the poorly animated episodes of SDF Macross, not Anime Friend itself.

SDF Macross episode 12 was not key-animated by STAR PRO, but STAR PRO did perform some in-between animations for episodes 10-12 (according to the Animeigo disc credits). Given that STAR PRO has a tendency to animate weapons coming out of nowhere (the infamous VF-1A "nose cone lasers"), STAR PRO may have also been responsible for animating the in-between sequences that show the Q-Rau's missiles coming out of nowhere in episode 12.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Mr March

[edwin3060]

It's sad... we either get a correct-to-scale, but missing parts Q-Rea, or an off-scale Q-Rea. Hopefully both scenes will be re-animated properly eventually. Heck, given the speculation about Klan's role in the movie, maybe some of the questions about her here will be answered.

[Bri]

If I compare the two pictures in this thread of Klan's Q-Rea it doesn't seem to be just a scaling error. More a misunderstanding of the nature of the Q-Rea. The first picture correctly portrays it as a mecha with a cockpit in which a Zentradi (or Meltradi what ever) can be seated. The second picture assumes the Q-rea to be an armed space suit with the limbs of the Zentradi going in to the limbs of the suit. Easy to make mistake but sloppy editing I guess.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Hm... Is there anything official that says the Q-rea doesn't hold a standing pilot?

[Mr March]

If I compare the two pictures in this thread of Klan's Q-Rea it doesn't seem to be just a scaling error. More a misunderstanding of the nature of the Q-Rea. The first picture correctly portrays it as a mecha with a cockpit in which a Zentradi (or Meltradi what ever) can be seated. The second picture assumes the Q-rea to be an armed space suit with the limbs of the Zentradi going in to the limbs of the suit. Easy to make mistake but sloppy editing I guess.

I agree. Like I said, the animators seem to have been confused that Zentradi height = Battle Suit height. One interpretation depicts that Queadluun-Rea as a suit of powered armor, whereas the more correct interpretation should be depicting the Q-Rea as a vehicle that is much larger than the pilot.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I agree. Like I said, the animators seem to have been confused that Zentradi height = Battle Suit height. One interpretation depicts that Queadluun-Rea as a suit of powered armor, whereas the more correct interpretation should be depicting the Q-Rea as a vehicle that is much larger than the pilot.

I prefer too look at it like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisbattle/4...57600188901243/ until proven otherwise.

Pilot's legs are recessed into the suit's legs, arms in the arms.

[Mr March]

Based on what we see in the anime, most Zentradi Battle Suits appear more "robot" than they are "powered armor". The legs of the pilot extend into the root of the lower suit limbs at most, the rest is all machinery. And if the line art is to be believed, the pilot's arms never go beyond the inside of the torso.

In the case of the Queadluun-Rea, it appears the pilots legs never go down below the torso. The pilot sits/squats inside the torso cockpit.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Based on what we see in the anime, most Zentradi Battle Suits appear more "robot" than they are "powered armor". The legs of the pilot extend into the root of the lower suit limbs at most, the rest is all machinery. And if the line art is to be believed, the pilot's arms never go beyond the inside of the torso.

In the case of the Queadluun-Rea, it appears the pilots legs never go down below the torso. The pilot sits/squats inside the torso cockpit.

Remind me to never get macronized. That's got to be uncomfortable, not to mention it makes no sense.

The moral of the story? Q-rea<Q-rau<VF-1A<VF-1S

Therefore, Q-rea<VF-1S

Therefore, VF-1S is win

[JB0]

Remind me to never get macronized. That's got to be uncomfortable, not to mention it makes no sense.

The moral of the story? Q-rea<Q-rau<VF-1A<VF-1S

Therefore, Q-rea<VF-1S

Therefore, VF-1S is win

The Zentradi never DID seem to care much for pilot comfort.

Regulds, Glaugs, QRaus, QReas, it doesn't matter what you fly. It's not gonna be a really comfortable ride.

[Letigre]

Based on what we see in the anime, most Zentradi Battle Suits appear more "robot" than they are "powered armor". The legs of the pilot extend into the root of the lower suit limbs at most, the rest is all machinery. And if the line art is to be believed, the pilot's arms never go beyond the inside of the torso.

In the case of the Queadluun-Rea, it appears the pilots legs never go down below the torso. The pilot sits/squats inside the torso cockpit.

Well it makes sense: as there are certain physical limitations if you have an actually use a person's limb moving in a armored suit that no amount of augmentation will overcome. Not to mention there is the added bonus that when you blow a limb off a mecha, you aren't blowing off the pilots limb as well!

[JB0]

Not to mention there is the added bonus that when you blow a limb off a mecha, you aren't blowing off the pilots limb as well!

Well, not until the rest of the mech goes up like a firecracker...

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, not until the rest of the mech goes up like a firecracker...

Like a firecracker? Nah. Explosion's not big enough. They go up like Roy in DYRL?

[Mr March]

JBO

Definitely agree. The Zentradi mecha are all cramped little cans for the poor pilot

Letigre

It certainly helped Klan. She survived with all her limbs still attached after her Q-Rea was blown to pieces by Brera.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Letigre

It certainly helped Klan. She survived with all her limbs still attached after her Q-Rea was blown to pieces by Brera.

Yeah, but that's a scripted event. Doesn't count, since the damage-mod model doesn't remove that section... Wait... That's Halo...

[Letigre]

So because it doesn't support your point it didn't happen..

[SchizophrenicMC]

So because it doesn't support your point it didn't happen..

Huh? I'm making a video game joke. For example, in Gears of War 2, a tank is cut in half. In reality, the damage model does not exist for it, and it's a cinematic model, only.

[DestroidDefender]

I think my biggest WTF moment around Zentraedi height is in the Macross 7 episode about the lost Protoculture base. Exsedol goes to the base in person - IIRC he's suspended under 2 helicopters and accompanied by a couple gerwalks - and he appears to be 4-5 time the height of a Valkyrie! And he's a short Zentran. ??? indeed.

[RedWolf]

Well he has Big Head.