No Love for Southern Cross?

[Shawn]

Was just hoping something new might have been 'uncovered'...I have all the older assets, so if it is just repackaged, will skip.

I liked SC-binged in one weekend way back on Prime (the subtitled version) and was quite happy with how it was.
Some of the animation was amazing (especially for the Auroran)...had to skip back and re-watch some of those scenes a few times.

[CoryHolmes]

I have it on order.  I wasn't terribly impressed with the Macross version, but I'm a sucker for Robotech stuff.  It'll arrive in a few weeks, I'm told.

[bioscythe]

Hi everyone,

 

I just noticed that some of my artwork has been posted to this forum and that some people might be interested in some Southern Cross Bioroid models/figures.

 

I'm currently in the middle of turning some of my models into real life products and was wondering if there would be any interest in Bioroids or other vehicles. I'm currently working on the Martian Fighting Machine from Jeff Wayne's version of the War of the Worlds but after that I will be looking for other projects.

 

Being faithful to the source material is of utmost importance to me. To see what I've done so far please feel free to visit my Deviant Art page and judge the quality for yourself. I would certainly be open to a small production run if there is sufficient interest. If this is something that appeals to you please just let me know either by replying to this post or DM-ing me.

 

Head over here for the artwork:

https://www.deviantart.com/bioscythe2/gallery/71510621/robotech-sdc-southern-cross

This links directly to my Southern Cross folder but the page also has pictures of the prototype model of the Martian Fighting Machine to give you an idea of the quality of models I produce.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bioscythe

[vladykins]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:56 PM, Shawn said:

Anyone pick up the SC book yet? Any new artwork? Says it is out now

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1772940240/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

I grabbed a copy and it contained some of the Imai Files stuff reproduced (crediting Robert Harkavy). I'm taking a quick look through again since I inly flipped through (my current bathroom reading being Sandy Petersen's 5E Cthulhu Mythos adaption book). Some of the things I hoped they might have dug out more info on (like the fleet ships) was lacking. They also did some bizarre things with the bioroids instead of listing them in early/mid/later. I'll take some shots and post them up to show what I mean in a bit.

[Convectuoso]

11 hours ago, bioscythe said:

I'm currently in the middle of turning some of my models into real life products and was wondering if there would be any interest in Bioroids or other vehicles

Sure. There will always be interest

[vladykins]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:56 PM, Shawn said:

Anyone pick up the SC book yet? Any new artwork? Says it is out now

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1772940240/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Here's a few quick shots from the book taken with my phone quickly, but if someone wanted to look at things more specifically, I can scan something.

 

My copy of the Imai files doesn't have the details on these two factions, but I'm sure someone else's does:

 

 

Most of the army groupings have a page similar to this:

 

 

In terms of my issues with the presentation of the bioroids, first they note the blue "soldier" bioroid:

 

 

On the next page, no explanation at all, they show this later stage bioroid:

 

Similarly, they have the green "sub-commander" but have Seifrit's ted "commander" on the page opposite:

 

 

But then separately list the red "commander" bioroid:

 

 

They then display the "armored/invid fighter":

 

 

The book then goes into the hoversled, the Zor/Tyrolian ships (transport, cruiser, mothership, dropship) and then suddenly goes back to "miscellaneous mecha" and starts popping out more bioroids:

 

The organization is just all over the place.

 

[danth]

10 hours ago, vladykins said:

The organization is just all over the place.

That's how you know it's an official Robotech product!

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, vladykins said:

My copy of the Imai files doesn't have the details on these two factions, but I'm sure someone else's does:

I'm pretty sure the one up top is the Hōjō clan's.

The one on the bottom is the Oda clan's... (yes, that Oda clan).

I'm more irritated by the fact that the book makes zero attempt to frame the concept art from Science Fiction Sengoku Saga in any useful context... like giving an explanation to the very blatant Fuurinkazan banner that shows up at one point or explaining what these seals are.

 

10 hours ago, vladykins said:

The organization is just all over the place.

Poor quality in a Robotech book?  About Southern Cross?  Who could have seen this coming?

Oh, that's right...

Everyone.  Everyone saw that coming.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[CoryHolmes]

One thing I liked was the in-depth transformation sketches of the mecha.  The animation quality of the show itself is suspect at best, so I'm pleasantly surprised that the transformation sequences were that thought out.

[Tober]

1 hour ago, CoryHolmes said:

One thing I liked was the in-depth transformation sketches of the mecha.  The animation quality of the show itself is suspect at best, so I'm pleasantly surprised that the transformation sequences were that thought out.

Is there much love for the Auroran?

[CoryHolmes]

5 minutes ago, Tober said:

Is there much love for the Auroran?

Not as much as I'd like, nor the Logan.  I love all the Southern Cross mecha, even more than the Macross or Mospeada designs.

[Tober]

4 hours ago, CoryHolmes said:

Not as much as I'd like, nor the Logan.  I love all the Southern Cross mecha, even more than the Macross or Mospeada designs.

I like the Southern Cross mechs too, but let's not go nuts!

[vladykins]

6 hours ago, Tober said:

Is there much love for the Auroran?

They do a page they say is "previously unpublished" (but I'm not so sure about that) of the Auroran transformation sequences. But that's probably the most love it gets.

 

 

 

 

[vladykins]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Poor quality in a Robotech book?  About Southern Cross?  Who could have seen this coming?

Oh, that's right...

Everyone.  Everyone saw that coming.

Oh, I know for sure. I never got the Macross saga version because I felt I had most of that stuff covered already in Perfect Memory and a few other sources. I will say that I only spent like $30 on this and it is a hardcover, so I'm not complaining too much. I spent more than that when shipping was factored in to get the newer Mospeada mook for essentially the few pages of Genesis Breakers stuff. 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, vladykins said:

They do a page they say is "previously unpublished" (but I'm not so sure about that) of the Auroran transformation sequences. But that's probably the most love it gets.

I think the Auroran transformation was published in an old issue of B-Club, but I'd have to check to be sure.

But anyway, the safest assumption whenever Robotech tries to tell you something is "new" or "never before seen" is to respond with "Liar".

[vladykins]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I think the Auroran transformation was published in an old issue of B-Club, but I'd have to check to be sure.

But anyway, the safest assumption whenever Robotech tries to tell you something is "new" or "never before seen" is to respond with "Liar".

Are you saying that Live Action Movie is just lies?

 

Sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face saying that.

[Dynaman]

11 minutes ago, vladykins said:

Are you saying that Live Action Movie is just lies?

 

Sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face saying that.

I don't know.  Nobody HAS seen that yet...

[Big s]

That’s the same argument the flat earthers use

[Big s]

Unfortunately for hg there seems to be more videos of stuff regarding a stupid flat earth than there are of their live action film 

[vladykins]

What do the Robotech LAM and Flat Earth Theory have in common?

 

True believers who can't be convinced otherwise

[Seto Kaiba]

43 minutes ago, Big s said:

Unfortunately for hg [...]

Eh... everything is unfortunate for Harmony Gold.  Especially - to pivot back to the topic at hand - that this is the best they could muster for an official art book in 2021.

Doubly so now that the licensing deadlock is broken and comparisons will be drawn against Big West's official art books in terms of quality and presentation going forward.

Udon Entertainment is normally at least a competent publisher.  Between this Southern Cross book and the previous Macross book they did, the only conclusion I can reach is that the staff at Udon working on Robotech's art books phoned it in, probably while working on something more profitable.

That said, the historian in me really cannot fully express without profanity how annoyed I am that they included all this stuff from the Science Fiction Sengoku Saga series concept and framed NONE OF IT in its historical context, even though the entire concept for Science Fiction Sengoku Saga was historical period dramas retold "IN SPAAAAAAACE!".  You could get away with not explaining that stuff if your readers were Japanese or you had a reasonable expectation that they would already be familiar with Sengoku period history like if this was, say, an artbook for Sengoku Basara or Samurai Warriors... but most Robotech fans aren't likely to be versed in Japanese history at all, so to them this is just a gallery of bizarre armor pictures rather than a conceptual spacefuture Who's Who of Sengoku period warlords.

[Tober]

12 hours ago, vladykins said:

They do a page they say is "previously unpublished" (but I'm not so sure about that) of the Auroran transformation sequences. But that's probably the most love it gets.

Cool, thanks!

[pengbuzz]

5 hours ago, vladykins said:

What do the Robotech LAM and Flat Earth Theory have in common?

 

True believers who can't be convinced otherwise

ROFL!!!!

  

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... everything is unfortunate for Harmony Gold.  Especially - to pivot back to the topic at hand - that this is the best they could muster for an official art book in 2021.

Doubly so now that the licensing deadlock is broken and comparisons will be drawn against Big West's official art books in terms of quality and presentation going forward.

Udon Entertainment is normally at least a competent publisher.  Between this Southern Cross book and the previous Macross book they did, the only conclusion I can reach is that the staff at Udon working on Robotech's art books phoned it in, probably while working on something more profitable.

That said, the historian in me really cannot fully express without profanity how annoyed I am that they included all this stuff from the Science Fiction Sengoku Saga series concept and framed NONE OF IT in its historical context, even though the entire concept for Science Fiction Sengoku Saga was historical period dramas retold "IN SPAAAAAAACE!".  You could get away with not explaining that stuff if your readers were Japanese or you had a reasonable expectation that they would already be familiar with Sengoku period history like if this was, say, an artbook for Sengoku Basara or Samurai Warriors... but most Robotech fans aren't likely to be versed in Japanese history at all, so to them this is just a gallery of bizarre armor pictures rather than a conceptual spacefuture Who's Who of Sengoku period warlords.

I would say it's desperation on HG's part, but since RT doesn't exactly contribute all that much to their finances, I wonder what's driving them here? Especially given that with the aforementioned deadlock broken, trying to compete with BW isn't a necessity really.

Or, I'm completely missing what's going on here....

Edited May 12, 2021 by pengbuzz

[CoryHolmes]

17 hours ago, Tober said:

I like the Southern Cross mechs too, but let's not go nuts!

Too late, I already did!

 

Southern Cross is the redheaded stepchild of the Robotech franchise.  Macross and Mospeada get all the mecha love, and I'm a sucker for an underdog story.  The mecha fit nicely with my head-canon version of the Robotech version of the Southern Cross story.  And the more people react like you, the more I dig my heels in with my love for them

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, CoryHolmes said:

Too late, I already did!

 

Southern Cross is the redheaded stepchild of the Robotech franchise.  Macross and Mospeada get all the mecha love, and I'm a sucker for an underdog story.  The mecha fit nicely with my head-canon version of the Robotech version of the Southern Cross story.  And the more people react like you, the more I dig my heels in with my love for them

*Must be the usually-vacant gaze in Dana Sterling's eyes every time she tries to do or say anything important*

Edited May 12, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Tober]

2 hours ago, CoryHolmes said:

Too late, I already did!

 

Southern Cross is the redheaded stepchild of the Robotech franchise.  Macross and Mospeada get all the mecha love, and I'm a sucker for an underdog story.  The mecha fit nicely with my head-canon version of the Robotech version of the Southern Cross story.  And the more people react like you, the more I dig my heels in with my love for them

I didn't intend to be derogatory towards you or Robotech. The winking emoji at the end of my comment essentially means it's not to be taken too seriously. 

If you like Southern Cross more than Macross or Mospeada, then more power to you!

[CoryHolmes]

7 hours ago, Tober said:

I didn't intend to be derogatory towards you or Robotech. The winking emoji at the end of my comment essentially means it's not to be taken too seriously. 

If you like Southern Cross more than Macross or Mospeada, then more power to you!

Nor did I take it as such, I assure you!

[Podtastic]

On 5/10/2021 at 2:47 AM, bioscythe said:

I'm currently in the middle of turning some of my models into real life products

What kind of products? Toys? 3 D prints?

On 5/10/2021 at 2:47 AM, bioscythe said:

Martian Fighting Machine from Jeff Wayne's

The Martian Fighting machine is one of my all time favourites, but sadly not that version.

Due to the biomechanical look this cover image is the closest I have ever seen to what I envisaged from the book, albeit the hood area could use some jazzing up. 

AYKB a Martian Fighting Machine is not meant to have anything resembling a wheel, yet must be able to move rapidly on its three legs in a manner similar to a "stool bowled violently along the ground."

The Fighting Machines and Handling Machines are'nt vehicles as much as giant artificial bodies - given their dexterity I wouldnt be suprised if the control interface was in some way similar to a Bioroid or Gurab

On 5/10/2021 at 3:36 PM, vladykins said:

if someone wanted to look at things more specifically, I can scan something.

A clearer view of the Bioroid Invid Fighter opening cockpit page would be useful.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Podtastic

[vladykins]

6 hours ago, Podtastic said:

A  clearer view of the Bioroid Invid Fighter opening cockpit page would be useful.

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

[bioscythe]

12 hours ago, Podtastic said:

What kind of products? Toys? 3 D prints?

 

Toys. However I didn't realize until a couple of days ago that I was a bit late to the party and that Mr Moscato has already produced some excellent Bioroid models. As always his work is fantastic and it may make my offerings a bit redundant. Still, if people want pre-built, finished toys then I'm happy to accommodate.

 

12 hours ago, Podtastic said:

The Martian Fighting machine is one of my all time favourites, but sadly not that version.

Fair enough. The Michael Trim/ Jeff Wayne tripod is my favourite but I'm well aware that it's probably the least book-accurate version. My number two is this one:

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/League_of_Extraordinary_Gentlemen_Vol_2_4?file=League+of+Extraordinary+Gentlemen+Vol+2+4.JPG

It ticks all of the boxes for me. It looks super alien yet still somehow Victorian and it even has the huge shield on top that the artilleryman describes crawling towards the other cylinder before it "staggered up on legs" and started causing mischief.

 

12 hours ago, Podtastic said:

AYKB a Martian Fighting Machine is not meant to have anything resembling a wheel, yet must be able to move rapidly on its three legs in a manner similar to a "stool bowled violently along the ground."

The Fighting Machines and Handling Machines are'nt vehicles as much as giant artificial bodies - given their dexterity I wouldnt be suprised if the control interface was in some way similar to a Bioroid or Gurab

 

H.G. Wells really understood how hard it would be for a tripod to move gracefully. If a four legged walker lifts a leg it's fine. - it's now a tripod and tripods are very stable. But if a tripod lifts a leg the the structure immediately starts falling so it has do what we bipeds do which is push off with that leg first to get some height and THEN move the leg. This would totally result in that jerky, milking stool movement described in the book. I've never seen any TV show, movie, or animation properly depict how a three legged walker would move although if anyone knows of something I'd love to see it.

 

Even Spielberg's War of the Worlds gorgeous Fighting Machines messed it up. I saw a behind the scenes clip where he described wanting them to look like giraffes when they walked, which makes them look graceful and deadly but it would be impossible because giraffes need FOUR legs to walk the way they do. Oh well

 

Interesting thought about the Fighting Machines being like Bioroids, It would certainly give them amazing control.

Edited May 18, 2021 by bioscythe

[Tober]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:47 AM, bioscythe said:

Hi everyone,

 

I just noticed that some of my artwork has been posted to this forum and that some people might be interested in some Southern Cross Bioroid models/figures.

 

I'm currently in the middle of turning some of my models into real life products and was wondering if there would be any interest in Bioroids or other vehicles. I'm currently working on the Martian Fighting Machine from Jeff Wayne's version of the War of the Worlds but after that I will be looking for other projects.

 

Being faithful to the source material is of utmost importance to me. To see what I've done so far please feel free to visit my Deviant Art page and judge the quality for yourself. I would certainly be open to a small production run if there is sufficient interest. If this is something that appeals to you please just let me know either by replying to this post or DM-ing me.

 

Head over here for the artwork:

https://www.deviantart.com/bioscythe2/gallery/71510621/robotech-sdc-southern-cross

This links directly to my Southern Cross folder but the page also has pictures of the prototype model of the Martian Fighting Machine to give you an idea of the quality of models I produce.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bioscythe

Interesting stuff.

 

Interesting also that you say being faithful to the source material is utmost important to you, yet your Bioroid Terminator 3D model looks a lot like the one I have and had to be largely altered so as to look more realistic.

[bioscythe]

2 hours ago, Tober said:

Interesting stuff.

 

Interesting also that you say being faithful to the source material is utmost important to you, yet your Bioroid Terminator 3D model looks a lot like the one I have and had to be largely altered so as to look more realistic.

 

Thanks for checking out my work!

I always welcome honest criticism, especially from someone who knows their stuff, in this case Bioroids. I realize that was a bold statement to make but I always try be as faithful to the source material as possible and it would bother me if I made a stupid mistake (especially after shooting my mouth off about how much I care about accuracy ). Where do you feel I didn't capture something properly? Is it one thing in particular or something more general? You guys here know this stuff better than anyone. If there's something that can be improved I definitely want to hear it.

[Tober]

26 minutes ago, bioscythe said:

 

Thanks for checking out my work!

I always welcome honest criticism, especially from someone who knows their stuff, in this case Bioroids. I realize that was a bold statement to make but I always try be as faithful to the source material as possible and it would bother me if I made a stupid mistake (especially after shooting my mouth off about how much I care about accuracy ). Where do you feel I didn't capture something properly? Is it one thing in particular or something more general? You guys here know this stuff better than anyone. If there's something that can be improved I definitely want to hear it.

It's to do with the proportions - anime vs real world. Southern Cross mecha generally have massive feet, and in the case of the Terminator (the armored foot soldier) it's beyond impractical - almost comical.

 

Looking at your 3D you have

probably come to the same conclusions. The feet and forearms are impracticably large and the helmet is too small.

This is what I ended up with, although I still consider it a WIP:

 

 

[tekering]

3 hours ago, bioscythe said:

Where do you feel I didn't capture something properly? Is it one thing in particular or something more general?

I appreciate you being open to constructive criticism, because there is an issue I noticed that bears mentioning.  It's a problem inherent to the medium, particularly when adapting hand-drawn artwork, but 3D models have too many perfectly straight lines, too many perfectly flat surfaces, too much perfect geometry evident.  Tatsunoko was particularly known for alien mecha designs that looked organic -- grown, rather than constructed -- and Southern Cross is a prominent example:

While your models show a tremendous amount of time and effort, I think the individual shapes need more refinement to achieve that lumpy, botanical look.

In other words, your math is showing.

Edited May 19, 2021 by tekering

[bioscythe]

Alright! Nice to see another Bioroid Terminator! I like that you kind of went with a thinner body style. Almost wasp-like in appearance.

 

1 hour ago, Tober said:

It's to do with the proportions - anime vs real world. Southern Cross mecha generally have massive feet, and in the case of the Terminator (the armored foot soldier) it's beyond impractical - almost comical

I couldn't agree more! The Bioroids were easier to get right. Their line art was mostly consistent although there were a few judgment calls that had to be made every now and then. The Terminator on the other hand was bonkers. Like you said, huge feet, tiny helmet, arms too long. Totally form over function. And to top it off the line art was inconsistent too.

My intention was to create something that could possibly be made into a costume so I started with a human CGI model at the heart of the armour but it became obvious immediately that the armour's proportions were NOT suitable for a normal human being. I experimented with using some of the line art proportions but not only were they impractical, they looked ridiculous when translated to a more realistic CGI model. Those feet...

 

Luckily some of the animators felt the way we did about those proportions:

 

 

There are a number of other shots like this where the proportions are reasonable so I ended up using them for proportion reference while relying on the line art for structure and detail. To my eye an important aspect of the armour was that it was bulky, almost like an overcoat, so I tried to keep that feeling while modelling something that could actually be worn by a person. Most areas are modelled faithfully but there was definitely more executive decision making on this than on the Bioroids or the vehicles.

I hope that explains where I was coming from with the sizing decisions I had to make. If it isn't to your taste I completely understand but I still very much appreciate the feedback!