No Love for Southern Cross?

[Big s]

Unfortunately rebooting anime today would take out all the charm of the original series. The 80’s pop rock soundtrack, the hand drawn action and the odd cheesy stupid yet somehow great moments would all be replaced with dull modern anime character designs cg robot battles and forgettable music. Mid 90’s might have been a better time to do a reboot, but modern anime is so washed out and dull, with very few exceptions. Also with this not being the most loved series over there, it probably would get a rough treatment 

[Podtastic]

It depends if its done by people who care or not. I'm usually against total reboots, but not slight "reimaginings".

A case in point is the 2006 MOTU series. It had slight costume redesigns, but in spirit was closer to the early minicomics.

All Southern Cross needs is upgraded cell art and some even more dynamic sequences to make it pop visually.  

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, Podtastic said:

All Southern Cross needs is upgraded cell art and some even more dynamic sequences to make it pop visually.  

Ah, no.

Just no.

Like, I actually feel bad because of how excessively optimistic that statement was.

Southern Cross only lasted as long as it did back in 1984 because the mecha genre more or less at the apex of its popularity and influence.  It was comparatively easy to get funding for any old story involving "real robot" type mecha at the time, thanks to the success of Mobile Suit Gundam and Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  It was easier for those shows to gain a following too because mecha was the in thing at the time.  Southern Cross tanked in Japan at a time when conditions in the industry were nearly ideal to succeed with mecha anime.

Nowadays?  No chance.  

These days, a new mecha IP has to have some serious clout and creative talent behind it or it'll never get made.  You can't quarter-ass development the way Tatsunoko Production did on Southern Cross and expect to get anywhere except a nice deep financial hole that other properties will have to fill in.  Tatsunoko itself recently had a refresher course in that fact of life on their 55th Anniversary when they rolled out their first original mecha IP in ages, The Price of Smiles, and it promptly tanked every bit as hard as Southern Cross did on only a twelve episode run.  The Arming Doublets are nice designs but heavily dated, but the actual mecha designs are so bland, generic, boxy, and ugly that they're never going to sell.  It's an object lesson in why you hire mechanical designers to do your mechanical designs instead of throwing the task at three randos in your studio and saying "I need three transforming robots and six enemy mechs by lunchtime".  

Hell, the picture you posted is pretty solid proof of my point.  The new (and embarrassingly bad) Robotech RPG isn't even giving Southern Cross - AKA the "Robotech Masters Saga" - its own sourcebook the way previous ones did.  It's been combined with MOSPEADA (AKA "the New Generation Saga") into a single book.  (History repeats itself, I guess, since the ADV FIlms remaster of Southern Cross also ended up being squashed together into a double-pack with Genesis Climber MOSPEADA in order to make it sell.  That's how I ended up with my copy, actually.  They did do a rather nice job with the box art.)

[pengbuzz]

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, no.

Just no.

Like, I actually feel bad because of how excessively optimistic that statement was.

Southern Cross only lasted as long as it did back in 1984 because the mecha genre more or less at the apex of its popularity and influence.  It was comparatively easy to get funding for any old story involving "real robot" type mecha at the time, thanks to the success of Mobile Suit Gundam and Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  It was easier for those shows to gain a following too because mecha was the in thing at the time.  Southern Cross tanked in Japan at a time when conditions in the industry were nearly ideal to succeed with mecha anime.

Nowadays?  No chance.  

These days, a new mecha IP has to have some serious clout and creative talent behind it or it'll never get made.  You can't quarter-ass development the way Tatsunoko Production did on Southern Cross and expect to get anywhere except a nice deep financial hole that other properties will have to fill in.  Tatsunoko itself recently had a refresher course in that fact of life on their 55th Anniversary when they rolled out their first original mecha IP in ages, The Price of Smiles, and it promptly tanked every bit as hard as Southern Cross did on only a twelve episode run.  The Arming Doublets are nice designs but heavily dated, but the actual mecha designs are so bland, generic, boxy, and ugly that they're never going to sell.  It's an object lesson in why you hire mechanical designers to do your mechanical designs instead of throwing the task at three randos in your studio and saying "I need three transforming robots and six enemy mechs by lunchtime".  

Hell, the picture you posted is pretty solid proof of my point.  The new (and embarrassingly bad) Robotech RPG isn't even giving Southern Cross - AKA the "Robotech Masters Saga" - its own sourcebook the way previous ones did.  It's been combined with MOSPEADA (AKA "the New Generation Saga") into a single book.  (History repeats itself, I guess, since the ADV FIlms remaster of Southern Cross also ended up being squashed together into a double-pack with Genesis Climber MOSPEADA in order to make it sell.  That's how I ended up with my copy, actually.  They did do a rather nice job with the box art.)

Severely Demented Crapfest Southern Cross: The Pear-Shaped Saga™.

Seriously, they should just develop the original idea if anything at all (which I doubt they ever will). At least jean won't get stuck head-first in the ground when she tried to run in her oversized metal diaper , takes a tumble and her helmet ends up turning her into a human lawn dart.

[Seto Kaiba]

37 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Severely Demented Crapfest Southern Cross: The Pear-Shaped Saga™.

That's rather uncharitable. 

It's not like Southern Cross's concept was unworkable.  Tatsunoko rushed to get an original mecha IP to market and cut every corner they could to make it happen quickly.  So it ended up being heavily and blatantly derivative of the most successful titles in the genre at the time, with the gaps filled in with material from series concepts Tatsunoko had rejected before deciding on a mecha anime, and design work done in-house by a team that didn't really have the skill set to do transforming robots instead of hiring experts.

You probably could redo Southern Cross and actually make it passable... but it'd mean basically starting over from the series concept and developing it properly.  You wouldn't be able to get away with turd-polishing the existing material.  39 episodes would be a hell of a stretch in this day in age, though.  Unless you've got serious confidence in your property from your production committee, it's hard to get more than 13 episodes in this day in age.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's rather uncharitable. 

It's not like Southern Cross's concept was unworkable.  Tatsunoko rushed to get an original mecha IP to market and cut every corner they could to make it happen quickly.  So it ended up being heavily and blatantly derivative of the most successful titles in the genre at the time, with the gaps filled in with material from series concepts Tatsunoko had rejected before deciding on a mecha anime, and design work done in-house by a team that didn't really have the skill set to do transforming robots instead of hiring experts.

You probably could redo Southern Cross and actually make it passable... but it'd mean basically starting over from the series concept and developing it properly.  You wouldn't be able to get away with turd-polishing the existing material.  39 episodes would be a hell of a stretch in this day in age, though.  Unless you've got serious confidence in your property from your production committee, it's hard to get more than 13 episodes in this day in age.

Yeah, it was. My apologies, I was feeling kinda silly and snarky all in one. *goes and stands in corner*

[CoryHolmes]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

  The new (and embarrassingly bad) Robotech RPG isn't even giving Southern Cross - AKA the "Robotech Masters Saga" - its own sourcebook the way previous ones did.  It's been combined with MOSPEADA (AKA "the New Generation Saga") into a single book.  

To why by who???  I haven't heard anything about a Southern Cross RPG from Strange Machine Games.

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, CoryHolmes said:

To why by who???  I haven't heard anything about a Southern Cross RPG from Strange Machine Games.

The covers were posted on a Facebook group I'm on.  Given the timing, I'd assume they were probably shown off at the Wondercon@Home Robotech panel?

The same post is the one that noted that the two sagas are going to be covered in one book, titled "Home Front".  

[CoryHolmes]

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The covers were posted on a Facebook group I'm on.  Given the timing, I'd assume they were probably shown off at the Wondercon@Home Robotech panel?

The same post is the one that noted that the two sagas are going to be covered in one book, titled "Home Front".  

Ah.  Blech, FaceBook 

 

Pity, but I hope it'll work out.  If the basic rules don't need rehashing in the new books, maybe it'll be enough.  Maybe.

[Einherjar]

Robotech Remix happened.  That’s the only relevant thing I need to say.

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

Robotech Remix happened.  That’s the only relevant thing I need to say.

But at least it was polite enough to stop happening almost immediately.

[Podtastic]

On 3/29/2021 at 7:14 AM, Podtastic said:

It depends if its done by people who care or not. I'm usually against total reboots, but not slight "reimaginings".

A case in point is the 2006 MOTU series. It had slight costume redesigns, but in spirit was closer to the early minicomics.

All Southern Cross needs is upgraded cell art and some even more dynamic sequences to make it pop visually.  

 

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, no.

Just no.

Like, I actually feel bad because of how excessively optimistic that statement was.

Southern Cross only lasted as long as it did back in 1984 because the mecha genre more or less at the apex of its popularity and influence.  It was comparatively easy to get funding for any old story involving "real robot" type mecha at the time, thanks to the success of Mobile Suit Gundam and Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  It was easier for those shows to gain a following too because mecha was the in thing at the time.  Southern Cross tanked in Japan at a time when conditions in the industry were nearly ideal to succeed with mecha anime.

Nowadays?  No chance.  

These days, a new mecha IP has to have some serious clout and creative talent behind it or it'll never get made.  You can't quarter-ass development the way Tatsunoko Production did on Southern Cross and expect to get anywhere except a nice deep financial hole that other properties will have to fill in.  Tatsunoko itself recently had a refresher course in that fact of life on their 55th Anniversary when they rolled out their first original mecha IP in ages, The Price of Smiles, and it promptly tanked every bit as hard as Southern Cross did on only a twelve episode run.  The Arming Doublets are nice designs but heavily dated, but the actual mecha designs are so bland, generic, boxy, and ugly that they're never going to sell.  It's an object lesson in why you hire mechanical designers to do your mechanical designs instead of throwing the task at three randos in your studio and saying "I need three transforming robots and six enemy mechs by lunchtime".  

Hell, the picture you posted is pretty solid proof of my point.  The new (and embarrassingly bad) Robotech RPG isn't even giving Southern Cross - AKA the "Robotech Masters Saga" - its own sourcebook the way previous ones did.  It's been combined with MOSPEADA (AKA "the New Generation Saga") into a single book.  (History repeats itself, I guess, since the ADV FIlms remaster of Southern Cross also ended up being squashed together into a double-pack with Genesis Climber MOSPEADA in order to make it sell.  That's how I ended up with my copy, actually.  They did do a rather nice job with the box art.)

 There is a difference between what is required to improve something to the standards I desire, and what masses of tasteless clowns want or like.

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

 There is a difference between what is required to improve something to the standards I desire, and what masses of tasteless clowns want or like.

I'm pretty sure there's other options besides "audience of one" and "tasteless clowns".

[vladykins]

10 hours ago, CoryHolmes said:

To why by who???  I haven't heard anything about a Southern Cross RPG from Strange Machine Games.

Yep- my understanding is that SMG is continuing their regular RPG combining Masters(SC)/New Gen(Mospeada) in one book and Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles in another. I haven't seen the SMG covers yet (though I saw real early drafts of some of the interior content).

 

The Savage Worlds supplements are also going the same route, with draft artwork for the Masters/New Gen and Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles books (though hopefully they don't use those fonts for the titles.

 

[derex3592]

13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

But at least it was polite enough to stop happening almost immediately.

HAhahahahahaha! 

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Podtastic said:

 There is a difference between what is required to improve something to the standards I desire, and what masses of tasteless clowns want or like.

Pretty damned sure you're the one wearing the grease paint and red nose in this relationship, sweetcheeks.

 

 

5 hours ago, vladykins said:

Yep- my understanding is that SMG is continuing their regular RPG combining Masters(SC)/New Gen(Mospeada) in one book and Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles in another. I haven't seen the SMG covers yet (though I saw real early drafts of some of the interior content).

 

The Savage Worlds supplements are also going the same route, with draft artwork for the Masters/New Gen and Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles books (though hopefully they don't use those fonts for the titles.

Well, you've seen one of the Strange Machine Games covers... it's what Podtastic posted.

It's not surprising that both publishers are consolidating the Masters Saga and New Generation content rather than give them their own books.  Neither saga is anywhere near as popular among Robotech fans as the Macross Saga is, so expected sales volumes of individual saga books would be lower.  Consolidating Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles is also quite a solid move, since they're both aborted titles that essentially the beginning and ending of a specific story arc without the middle part and there's very little content for the two of them.

 

 

16 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

HAhahahahahaha! 

What's really weird is that the publisher blamed the cancellation on the pandemic lockdowns... even though the book was cancelled two months before the lockdowns started.

But that's kinda par for the course when Robotech anything gets past the Macross Saga. 

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Pretty damned sure you're the one wearing the grease paint and red nose in this relationship, sweetcheeks.

 

 

Well, you've seen one of the Strange Machine Games covers... it's what Podtastic posted.

It's not surprising that both publishers are consolidating the Masters Saga and New Generation content rather than give them their own books.  Neither saga is anywhere near as popular among Robotech fans as the Macross Saga is, so expected sales volumes of individual saga books would be lower.  Consolidating Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles is also quite a solid move, since they're both aborted titles that essentially the beginning and ending of a specific story arc without the middle part and there's very little content for the two of them.

 

 

What's really weird is that the publisher blamed the cancellation on the pandemic lockdowns... even though the book was cancelled two months before the lockdowns started.

But that's kinda par for the course when Robotech anything gets past the Macross Saga. 

ROFL!!!!

[Podtastic]

On 3/30/2021 at 6:58 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Pretty damned sure you're the one wearing the grease paint and red nose in this relationship, sweetcheeks.

In your opinion, which I dont value much by the way.

[pengbuzz]

On 4/7/2021 at 1:51 AM, Podtastic said:

In your opinion, which I dont value much by the way.

Or any one else's.

Edited April 8, 2021 by pengbuzz

[tekering]

C'mon, guys.  We all have our personality quirks, but there's no need for personal attacks.  Let's restrict our opinions to Southern Cross, shall we?

Here's just a taste of how good the show might look in high-definition... 

[derex3592]

Looks great @tekering.  I personally would love an HD redo of Southern Cross and Mospeada. The best video quality I have of both shows is the old Robotech Remastered DVD's.  Which honestly isn't bad video quality wise, better than the Southern Cross and Mospeada DVD's.  What they did to the original sound effects of the two series for a surround sound mix is just atrocious and obnoxious however! 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, tekering said:

Here's just a taste of how good the show might look in high-definition... 

Eh... unpopular opinion, but high definition won't make the show look better.  It just makes the lapses in animation quality more evident.

(As we've seen in the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series Blu-rays.)

 

[danth]

2 hours ago, derex3592 said:

What they did to the original sound effects of the two series for a surround sound mix is just atrocious and obnoxious however! 

Yep. I would have been all in on those, if they hadn't replaced ALL the sound effects! Now it's just a bastardization of a bastardization. All Robotech has going for it (over the originals) is nostalgia, and they had to go and ruin that. The new sound effects are jarring and totally rip me out of the experience.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... unpopular opinion, but high definition won't make the show look better.  It just makes the lapses in animation quality more evident.

(As we've seen in the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series Blu-rays.)

Yep, the good episodes will look better and the bad episodes will look worse. I don't remember Southern Cross having as much bad animation as SDF Macross...but I don't remember as much about Southern Cross generally.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, danth said:

Yep, the good episodes will look better and the bad episodes will look worse. I don't remember Southern Cross having as much bad animation as SDF Macross...but I don't remember as much about Southern Cross generally.

The character animation is reasonably consistent... but there are a lot of moments of weird, off-model animation where Southern Cross's mecha are concerned.  So much so that some background mecha are drawn off-model far more frequently than on.  Like the Sylphid, which is drawn off-model so often that fans of Robotech assumed there are three of four major variants of it with different wing designs.

[pengbuzz]

8 hours ago, tekering said:

Here's just a taste of how good the show might look in high-definition... 

*dons eyebleach*

[JetJockey]

We'll see if there is some love soon.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/animation-art/robotech-southern-cross-dana-sterling-production-cel-setup-with-painted-background-tatsunoko-productio/p/7254-18151.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

[jvmacross]

Gonzo.....

 

Gonzo in armor...

[GabrielV]

On 3/30/2021 at 6:05 AM, vladykins said:

Yep- my understanding is that SMG is continuing their regular RPG combining Masters(SC)/New Gen(Mospeada) in one book and Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles in another. I haven't seen the SMG covers yet (though I saw real early drafts of some of the interior content).

 

The Savage Worlds supplements are also going the same route, with draft artwork for the Masters/New Gen and Sentinels/Shadow Chronicles books (though hopefully they don't use those fonts for the titles.

After the first Savage Worlds Robotech: Macross book, I don't have any real hopes for the further books Battlefield Press does or the revised edition of the Macross book.  I feel the Battlefield Press Savage World book was very half assed in terms of content.  It was basically just a book you put on your shelf to say you have a Savage Worlds Robotech book, not something to actually play or even be playable.

I think the SMG version is vastly better, and is a valiant attempt at a Robotech RPG.  I remember the announcement years ago that Southern Cross and New Generation would be combined into a single book.  But there haven't been any new Robotech projects mentioned in the SMG newsletter for some time, and even mention of Robotech material has been relegated solely to promoting the existing products.  The plans shared by the company seem to have them lined out solid with different projects for the next two years.

Do you have a link to anything recent where SMG was saying that the SC/NG book was still coming?

 

[vladykins]

1 hour ago, GabrielV said:

After the first Savage Worlds Robotech: Macross book, I don't have any real hopes for the further books Battlefield Press does or the revised edition of the Macross book.  I feel the Battlefield Press Savage World book was very half assed in terms of content.  It was basically just a book you put on your shelf to say you have a Savage Worlds Robotech book, not something to actually play or even be playable.

I think the SMG version is vastly better, and is a valiant attempt at a Robotech RPG.  I remember the announcement years ago that Southern Cross and New Generation would be combined into a single book.  But there haven't been any new Robotech projects mentioned in the SMG newsletter for some time, and even mention of Robotech material has been relegated solely to promoting the existing products.  The plans shared by the company seem to have them lined out solid with different projects for the next two years.

Do you have a link to anything recent where SMG was saying that the SC/NG book was still coming?

 

Last thing I have is some of the early release stuff that mainly showed what content and which order it will be in. I haven't chatted with the authors in a bit, but the image further up the thread is supposed to be from one of the front covers (I know they released the original Macross book in three different covers).

[GabrielV]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:57 AM, vladykins said:

Last thing I have is some of the early release stuff that mainly showed what content and which order it will be in. I haven't chatted with the authors in a bit, but the image further up the thread is supposed to be from one of the front covers (I know they released the original Macross book in three different covers).

I finally got a newsletter mentioning it again last night.

 

[vladykins]

6 minutes ago, GabrielV said:

I finally got a newsletter mentioning it again last night.

 

Yep, and looks like this will be one of the variant covers:

 

 

 

Also looks like they will be Kickstarting so it looks like it isn't a set-in-stone release yet (though Kickstarting is how a lot of game companies are ensuring a market ahead of time now, even if a number of folks got burned in the RRT fiasco with Palladium).

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by vladykins

[GabrielV]

Just now, vladykins said:

Yep, and looks like this will be one of the variant covers:

They'll probably do exactly like with the Macross book.  There will be SC and NG cover variants, and possibly a limited version.  I wonder if they'll do a screen with SC or NG art?  

 

[vladykins]

The SC cover is a couple posts above, but here is a repost:

 

No visibility on a limited variant or variants like they did for Macross yet, but I suspect they'll do one or both series in "leatherette".

[Shawn]

Anyone pick up the SC book yet? Any new artwork? Says it is out now

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1772940240/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, Shawn said:

Anyone pick up the SC book yet? Any new artwork? Says it is out now

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1772940240/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Didn't pick it up myself because... y'know... the R-word... but from what I've seen posted the quality is about what you'd expect from a Robotech art book.  (Which is to say, it sucks.)

The "new" art seems to be mainly reprints from the Imai Files but with even less useful commentary than the Imai Files had.