No Love for Southern Cross?

[Seto Kaiba]

59 minutes ago, treker14 said:

I think I read somewhere there that it was flop because of mecha. My understanding was that Japanese anime try to make money off the merchandise, but they never created any because the mecha was too bulky and not streamlined therefore was not liked by the kids or adults like they were in Macross and Mospeada or even Gundam 

Dude, look at what you're replying to before you hit reply... that post you quoted is over eleven years old at this point.

While it is essentially true that merchandising is the primary means by which studios to profit from the anime they produce, the rest of what you said is incorrect.  Southern Cross was a flop because its ratings were in the toilet.  The show's poor ratings performance was why there was no merchandise, not the other way around.  It was so poorly received that it was earmarked for a premature ending barely 1/3 of the way into its planned broadcast run.  Its failure is usually attributed to its heavily derivative and poorly developed story, its generally unlikable protagonist, and at least partly to trying to market a mecha series to a then-nonexistant female audience.

There was actually a fair amount of merchandise being developed for Southern Cross, and several of the show's licensees did make it far enough to actually release Southern Cross goods before the show was cancelled.  The reason so little merchandise was made before the show's cancellation was that the show's development was so rushed and disorganized that the final designs and even its title weren't set until shortly before the start of production.  That left the merchandising partners little time to develop the branded merchandise for the series before it went to air.  It didn't help that several of the licensees were also working on products for Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? at the same time, but the biggest problem was that development of Southern Cross merchandise started very late.  Much of that merchandise was still on the drawing board when the show's ratings came back and it became apparent Southern Cross was a flop.  A few products that were far enough along to be released were - several kits, a few apparel items, etc. - and the rest were quietly abandoned as licensees cut their losses.  Imai Kagaku's planned model kits of the Spartas and several other mecha were among the cancelled projects.  

Edited September 12, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[Podtastic]

Its sad really, because Southern Cross isn't actually a bad series. I still get a kick out of the mecha/ combat scenes etc.

And it had a lot of goodies such as Bioroids, Muses, Roil Tiulvo's, arming doublets, Hovertanks  - great potential. A modern animated movie with those elements would be something. This art (albeit not purely SC) makes me sad when I think of what could have been:

https://www.deviantart.com/franciscoetchart/art/ROBOTECH-Before-the-Invid-Storm-852608172

(Unlike Macross 7, where the mecha and the combat scenes are utterly meh. I guess the music saved that one somehow, even though even that is nothing to write home about either.)

Edited September 15, 2020 by Podtastic

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Its sad really, because Southern Cross isn't actually a bad series. I still get a kick out of the mecha/ combat scenes etc.

[...]

(Unlike Macross 7, where the mecha and the combat scenes are utterly meh. I guess the music saved that one somehow, even though even that is nothing to write home about either.)

As we've noted on several previous occasions, your personal preferences are rather unconventional and at odds with the overwhelming majority of viewers.

The whole reason for this thread is that there's very little love for the series because of how poorly it's been received by audiences worldwide.

(I'm not saying you're wrong to be passionate about it, just that we should keep a realistic perspective.)

Edited September 15, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[JB0]

But at least after a decade and twenty pages of posts, we can conclusively answer the thread's original question.

 

"No Love for Southern Cross?"

There's definitely some love. Not much, but it clearly exists.

[Big s]

Even here in the US the show was that forgotten middle child that had a hard time standing out. I loved the show, but my friends all thought it was too girly and the feel of the show was too out of place in the whole Robotech thing. 

Years later, when I finally watched the Japanese version things felt even better. It’s definitely rushed at the end due to the cancellation of the show. It also has a more fun kinda feel rather than the somewhat more serious feel of it’s Robotech counterpart. The character design was definitely more detailed than the mecha. The mecha really had some odd choices like an open top tank or a space helicopter and a super deformed Gerwalk.

i think overall it had some interesting concepts that just didn’t exactly work together for a lot of people, but I still loved it and I’m glad that I’m not the only one.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 9/15/2020 at 6:15 AM, JB0 said:

"No Love for Southern Cross?"

There's definitely some love. Not much, but it clearly exists.

If anything, the epic crash-and-burn failure of Harmony Gold's rebooted Robotech has actually been a good thing for Southern Cross fans... at least in the short term.

When Harmony Gold tried to relaunch Robotech and establish it as a credible anime property in the early 2000s, they secured licensing deals with actual professional toy companies that were too put off by Southern Cross's unpopularity with Robotech fans to give any serious consideration to making Southern Cross merchandise.  Robotech's own creative staff didn't want to reference Southern Cross in new works for much the same reason.  Now that Robotech has fallen on its hardest times yet, with all current and future development cancelled, all of their cautious professional merchandising partners have been replaced by small-time indie outfits willing to actually take a risk on Southern Cross for ultra-low volume collectibles.

It only took 36 years and three separate total failures, but someone's finally developing Southern Cross merchandise seriously.  How successful it'll be remains to be seen, given how the merchandise in question has gotten mixed/poor reviews, but it's more than Southern Cross has ever gotten before.  Udon is even attempting to put together a Southern Cross artbook, though the content will mostly be reprints from the old Robotech official website.

 

7 hours ago, Big s said:

Even here in the US the show was that forgotten middle child that had a hard time standing out. I loved the show, but my friends all thought it was too girly and the feel of the show was too out of place in the whole Robotech thing. 

And just think... that was Southern Cross's best reception.  There are overseas markets in SE Asia where they straight-up dropped the Robotech Masters Saga and went straight from the Macross Saga to the New Generation Saga.

[pengbuzz]

On 9/17/2020 at 1:52 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

And just think... that was Southern Cross's best reception.  There are overseas markets in SE Asia where they straight-up dropped the Robotech Masters Saga and went straight from the Macross Saga to the New Generation Saga.

Smart of them; even NG Saga has more redeeming value than "The Blonde Twit Mech Driver" show.

[JB0]

And yet when Cartoon Network was running Robotech, they opted to omit Mospeada instead of Southern Cross.

Did we ever find out why?

[jenius]

Did it just get cancelled before it was through?

[tekering]

51 minutes ago, jenius said:

Did it just get cancelled before it was through?

No, the series was broadcast from January 12, 1998 to December 26, 1999.  During that two-year period, they ran the first 60 episodes three times concurrently, omitting Mospeada entirely each time.

[Gerli]

There is a new Artbook coming, but sadly is from the R* series...

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/UDON/dp/1772940240/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_US=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=Robotech Visual Archive%3A The Southern Cross&qid=1600020085&sr=8-1&fbclid=IwAR08acm1GfkaV3nx8-1jAxsglM0yMJtVYrKZxUduOpOVMS8AD4YzG2mjoAQ

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gerli

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Smart of them; even NG Saga has more redeeming value than "The Blonde Twit Mech Driver" show.

Considering that the Robotech Masters Saga was essentially where Robotech tried to set up the foundations of a coherent original setting, albeit in a halfhearted and embarrassingly inconsistent way, being ratings-conscious was probably somewhat detrimental to the viewers since there wouldn't have been any real clue as to how they went from a desolate and barren planet to an overgrown one so quickly.

 

2 minutes ago, Gerli said:

There is a new Artbook coming, but sadly is from the R* series...

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/UDON/dp/1772940240/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_US=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=Robotech Visual Archive%3A The Southern Cross&qid=1600020085&sr=8-1&fbclid=IwAR08acm1GfkaV3nx8-1jAxsglM0yMJtVYrKZxUduOpOVMS8AD4YzG2mjoAQ

Keep your expectations for this one low... by which I mean, "lower than the previous volume".

Harmony Gold never did manage to get their hands on any proper information about Southern Cross in the last 35 years.  For the most part, it's because there's simply no proper info to find no matter how thorough your search.  Southern Cross's creators don't seem to have ever compiled anything like the detailed official setting material we're used to seeing from its contemporaries.  I'm not sure if it's because Ammonite and the other teams taking creative leadership of the series just didn't have time with the show's rushed development after its late change of genres to mecha and/or its premature termination, or if they just didn't care.  To a lesser extent, it's because Harmony Gold was never willing to actually pay anyone to do the research properly and instead relied on fan volunteers who weren't really equipped to do the necessary research and substituted their own headcanon.

A lot of the contents of this book are, like the previous volume, going to be copypasta from the old robotech.com Infopedia section... which was rife with errors both factual and typographical.  If they consulted the usual suspects, this'll be more someone's Robotech fanfic than a reference of any kind.

[pengbuzz]

7 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Considering that the Robotech Masters Saga was essentially where Robotech tried to set up the foundations of a coherent original setting, albeit in a halfhearted and embarrassingly inconsistent way, being ratings-conscious was probably somewhat detrimental to the viewers since there wouldn't have been any real clue as to how they went from a desolate and barren planet to an overgrown one so quickly.

Ch-ch-chi CHIA!!!

[Convectuoso]

[jenius]

I still don't get how that can possibly be one figure with separate armor.

[505thAirborne]

48 minutes ago, jenius said:

I still don't get how that can possibly be one figure with separate armor.

I sense a very fiddley unstable parts-former. You can see putty under Dana's right foot. 

[jenius]

Since she's not on a doll stand, I wouldn't hold the putty against her. Every show I go to, there are always plenty of toppled over figures from people bumping the displays.

[Seto Kaiba]

That price is in Hong Kong dollars, right?

Even for $80 US, that seems like a pretty iffy-quality figure.

[sh9000]

[tekering]

That must be fan art.  It doesn't make a lick of sense.  

[jenius]

Maybe the original concept was the Hovertank had a helicopter mode before they became two different mechs?

[Chronocidal]

9 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

I sense a very fiddley unstable parts-former. You can see putty under Dana's right foot. 

I feel like they saw the VF100s VF-25, and took it as a challenge for how much of a figure you can replace, and still call it "one figure."

The very most I can see those two sharing is the base torso.  All of the joints on the armored parts are different colors than the normal body.

Also.. is it just me, or do a lot of Southern Cross/Mospeada mecha just completely lack the ability to rotate at the elbow?  The cutaway basically confirms that the arm can't actually twist... but also has two elbows?  

Edited September 20, 2020 by Chronocidal

[tekering]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

Maybe the original concept was the Hovertank had a helicopter mode before they became two different mechs?

No, that's part of the space retrofitting they designed for later in the series...

Remember when they launched an attack against the flagship in orbit?

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

The cutaway basically confirms that the arm can't actually twist... but also has two elbows?  

It was never an issue in the animation.  

[Chronocidal]

  I didn't figure it would have been an issue, it's just amusing seeing that sort of omission on a drawing with that much detail.

[jenius]

It's admittedly been a very long time since I have watched either The Masters or Southern Cross... I remembered there was a space retrofit but I just thought it was just covering the pilot in tank mode. 

1 minute ago, Chronocidal said:

  I didn't figure it would have been an issue, it's just amusing seeing that sort of omission on a drawing with that much detail.

Yeah, a toy strictly based on that line art would be very stiff. Maybe there's a rotation point above the bicep? If so, the ball of the shoulder would have to be a loose cover instead of being one piece with the bicep cover like we see on the other arm. 

[Seto Kaiba]

20 hours ago, tekering said:

That must be fan art.  It doesn't make a lick of sense.  

It's not official art... but the design itself is from the series.  I guess someone at Udon figured that they needed a cutaway for the cover because they'd already used the VF-1 GERWALK official one for the cover of the previous volume.

 

17 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

  I didn't figure it would have been an issue, it's just amusing seeing that sort of omission on a drawing with that much detail.

Well, you get what you pay for... and Udon is very definitely doing these Robotech art books on the cheap.

I expect the artist who drew it probably wasn't even familiar with the design.  He/she was likely just given a silhouette and told "fill this with mechanical junk".

[tekering]

In case anyone wants a clearer look at the artwork:

[Big s]

The odd thing is that the upper arm has a swivel under the shoulder ball joint on the left arm internal structure, but the right has solid armor to block the movement. And in the above anime picture it looks like the ball of the shoulder armor is drawn separate from the upper arm armor to allow a swivel, but the animators made it swivel at the elbow 

[Chronocidal]

I think we're all thinking way too much about a picture that wasn't really ever meant to be physically possible.

I'm still trying to decide whether the two gun barrels in the left arm pack are meant to be vertically, or horizontally stacked. 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Chronocidal said:

I think we're all thinking way too much about a picture that wasn't really ever meant to be physically possible.

Not to mention that it wasn't drawn by anyone connected with the mechanical designs of the series either... it's fanart.

[vladykins]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I think we're all thinking way too much about a picture that wasn't really ever meant to be physically possible.

I'm still trying to decide whether the two gun barrels in the left arm pack are meant to be vertically, or horizontally stacked. 

It is a triple cannon but the artist couldn't manage to show that and probably just said "Oh, it's hidden behind there where it can't be seen".

I used this same strategy when drawing things..... in grade school. "Hey, this airplane wing is on the other side so I don't need to draw it, even though the angle of the airplane would clearly show it."

 

[Podtastic]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:26 PM, jenius said:

I still don't get how that can possibly be one figure with separate armor.

You and me both. 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Podtastic

[Podtastic]

Just out of curiosity, how popular is this model Bioroid amongst Bioroid fans? In RT it was called the Invid Fighter. 

Note I'm only asking the fans here, no useless anti-comments please. 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Just out of curiosity, how popular is this model Bioroid amongst Bioroid fans? In RT it was called the Invid Fighter.

From what I've seen, most interest in Bioroids is firmly centered on the "Early Type" Bioroids that dominated the first two-thirds of the series.  Mainly Seifreit's red Early Type II Bioroid, with the stock green Early Type II and blue Early Type I as a peripery interest.  Most folks - including Robotech's official coverage - tend to forget there were four more models of Bioroid in the OSM.  Kinda like how almost nobody remembers that there were actually multiple types of Spartas head.

EDIT: To clarify terms, the Bioroids didn't have names in the OSM... they were just referred to as the Early, Middle, or Late type and Type I or Type II for that period.  The model Robotech calls the Invid Fighter or the Armored Bioroid was the Middle Type II.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[Tober]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

From what I've seen, most interest in Bioroids is firmly centered on the "Early Type" Bioroids that dominated the first two-thirds of the series.  Mainly Seifreit's red Early Type II Bioroid, with the stock green Early Type II and blue Early Type I as a peripery interest.  Most folks - including Robotech's official coverage - tend to forget there were four more models of Bioroid in the OSM.  Kinda like how almost nobody remembers that there were actually multiple types of Spartas head.

EDIT: To clarify terms, the Bioroids didn't have names in the OSM... they were just referred to as the Early, Middle, or Late type and Type I or Type II for that period.  The model Robotech calls the Invid Fighter or the Armored Bioroid was the Middle Type II.

So I'm a bit confused, as usual. 

I thought there were 6 variants - including the so-called 'Bioroid Worker' (which was unseen in the anime).

Bioroid Worker - lineart only

Bioroid Soldier - Blue

Bioroid Leader - Red

Bioroid Guard - Green

Bioroid Scout - Light Blue

Bioroid Invid Fighter - Brown

This is mostly from the Palladium RPG books, so there is some contradiction.