No Love for Southern Cross?

[CoryHolmes]

13 hours ago, Podtastic said:

@CoryHolmes I've just seen an updated pdf of the Homefront RPG. There are nice pics of all 3 modes of the Spartas/Hovertank therein which I am sure that, as a Hovertank fan, you will appreciate.

 

How about the Logan?  I love that maligned mini-mecha more than is probably healthy

[darkranger12]

Dunno if I should ask this but...how would the invid fair against 2040s Macross era tech...and I guess I should ask how would a defense fleet fair against the smaller machines.

Would smaller units be needed to fight the invid?

Edited June 21, 2022 by darkranger12

[darkranger12]

I noticed someone mentioned the Z series battlpods from the books and theres this from the Robotech: Expeditionary Force Marines Sourcebook One.  I don't mind the hands but I wouldn't mind cannons at the ends of the arms.  Also Walton borrowed the shoulders from the VFA-6.  Kinda wish those shoulders would contain the micro missile launcers from the Alpha. >.>

Edited June 21, 2022 by darkranger12

[Seto Kaiba]

48 minutes ago, darkranger12 said:

Dunno if I should ask this but...how would the invid fair against 2040s Macross era tech...and I guess I should ask how would a defense fleet fair against the smaller machines.

Would smaller units be needed to fight the invid?

Eh... cross-universe "vs." topics are expressly prohibited by the forum rules, so I'd err on the side of "you shouldn't".

What I'll say on the matter without indulging a direct comparison between settings is that the Invit/Invid are from a setting and story where technology is more "fifteen minutes into the future" and laser weapons replaced hard rounds for the logistical benefits rather than any performance advantage.  I'll explain in more detail via PM.

 

2 minutes ago, darkranger12 said:

I noticed someone mentioned the Z series battlpods from the books and theres this from the Robotech: Expeditionary Force Marines Sourcebook One.  I don't mind the hands but I wouldn't mind cannons at the ends of the arms.

There were some... limits... imposed on the replacements for the Sentinels designs.  After all, the reason they abandoned the original Sentinels designs was for fear of a lawsuit given how obviously derivative they were of Macross's designs.

[darkranger12]

Whoops.  Sorry about that then.

[CoryHolmes]

2 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

I noticed someone mentioned the Z series battlpods from the books and theres this from the Robotech: Expeditionary Force Marines Sourcebook One.  I don't mind the hands but I wouldn't mind cannons at the ends of the arms.  Also Walton borrowed the shoulders from the VFA-6.  Kinda wish those shoulders would contain the micro missile launcers from the Alpha. >.>

All of the REF- *ahem*  UEEF Marine Destroids had Alpha-like stylings.  In-universe is because they were made by the same company and thus wanted parts commonality and consistent branding, but... yeah, the redesigns didn't turn my crank at all.

[Podtastic]

On 6/21/2022 at 2:17 AM, CoryHolmes said:

 

How about the Logan?  I love that maligned mini-mecha more than is probably healthy

There is a big fat picture of one in "Guardian?" mode currently on page 54.

Due to my moans and groans (and mb some other peoples') mostly the text now wraps around the pics instead of over-running them. Unfortunately I lost the "textboxes cutting off character's lower legs" battle - mostly.

Additionally the guy who independently commissioned those art pieces I posted earlier in the thread has given permission to include them in the book as well, so they are there as full page art.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Podtastic

[Phyrox]

Wow, that re-styled battlepod is pretty blatant in its, eh...borrowing?
Whether they wrote in-universe justifications or not, that's not a good look.
Between that and the rather poor art* we've seen here that's going into the latest RPG...makes me nostalgic for what Palladium art was, warts and all.

*- I know some people here have paid for commissioned art from this Kickstarter, and I'm happy that they're finally seeing the scenes in their head drawn out at long last.  I don't mean to disparage that.

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, Phyrox said:

Wow, that re-styled battlepod is pretty blatant in its, eh...borrowing?
Whether they wrote in-universe justifications or not, that's not a good look.
Between that and the rather poor art* we've seen here that's going into the latest RPG...makes me nostalgic for what Palladium art was, warts and all.

Please forgive me if I misinterpreted your remark here... but the way I read it it sounds like you aren't aware that that "restyled" battlepod IS Palladium's art.

Specifically, it's art from the last Robotech sourcebook Palladium published before losing the license for the second time: UEEF Marines.  Palladium had to come up with its own art to replace the original, legally-problematic, art for the battlepod and destroid designs from the aborted Robotech II: the Sentinels series.  They were also prohibited from doing anything of substance with the Sentinels plot itself due to HG's policy on that, so the book was mostly MOSPEADA concept art from the so-called Imai Files being given Robotech backstories and setting material that was Sentinels with the serial numbers filed off.  Dunno why they decided to go with ugly kludges of bits from multiple mecha.  The only possible explanation that springs to mind being they'd literally introduced a game mechanic to do exactly that in the previous book.

Can't put that evil on Strange Machine.

[Bolt]

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

  I'll explain in more detail via PM.

Dang, that would've been fun to talk about, and sit back and watch the fire works!

[Seto Kaiba]

8 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Dang, that would've been fun to talk about, and sit back and watch the fire works!

I'd be prepared to wager that the "fireworks" are exactly why the mods prohibited those topics. 🤣

If the strictly-objective aspects of the comparison interest you I can send you the information by PM as well.

[DewPoint]

And topics get locked that way too! 

Just wanted to remind everyone that kit bashing existing and older designs in to a "new" model is a time honered tradition in other franchises.

[Bolt]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd be prepared to wager that the "fireworks" are exactly why the mods prohibited those topics. 🤣

If the strictly-objective aspects of the comparison interest you I can send you the information by PM as well.

👍🏼

[JB0]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd be prepared to wager that the "fireworks" are exactly why the mods prohibited those topics. 🤣

But how are we supposed to figure out how many invid it takes to scuttle an Imperial Star Destroyer if we can't argue about it?!

[Podtastic]

31 minutes ago, JB0 said:

But how are we supposed to figure out how many invid it takes to scuttle an Imperial Star Destroyer if we can't argue about it?!

That's an excellent point.😁

But you know how those debates go.  It will ultimately get derailed into a multi-page spiraling discussion between two guys about the strength of X-wing hull materials , each insisting the other's calculations and knowledge of physics is completely wrong.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Podtastic

[pengbuzz]

5 hours ago, DewPoint said:

And topics get locked that way too! 

Just wanted to remind everyone that kit bashing existing and older designs in to a "new" model is a time honered tradition in other franchises.

Wow...you'll have to tell me more about this "kitbashing" thing sometime! It sounds like something I'd enjoy!

🤣

[Big s]

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Wow...you'll have to tell me more about this "kitbashing" thing sometime! It sounds like something I'd enjoy!

🤣

Ok, See a new hope and then everything after that.

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, DewPoint said:

Just wanted to remind everyone that kit bashing existing and older designs in to a "new" model is a time honered tradition in other franchises.

Well, in Gundam certainly... I can't really think of any other franchise that does so on a regular basis, and even Gundam doesn't do it to THAT degree.

That is in full-on junkyard robot territory.

[DewPoint]

On 4/28/2021 at 6:54 AM, Chronocidal said:

My favorite will always be the USS Elkins, because of just how hilariously blatant this particular kitbash is.

Yes, they straight up slapped a Voyager saucer on top of an F-14 fuselage and glued on TMP nacelles mounted to Runabout pylons.  

[JB0]

21 minutes ago, DewPoint said:

It is perfect for the captain who wants to boldly go into the danger zone.

[Dynaman]

That is too easy (the ST kitbash).  ST is the poster child for kitbashing designs.

[Chronocidal]

11 hours ago, Dynaman said:

That is too easy (the ST kitbash).  ST is the poster child for kitbashing designs.

To be entirely fair, ST mostly kitbashes from their own ships, so it's less about pulling in spare parts from outside sources, and more about rearranging the parts you already have from other established designs.  I think there are only a handful that pull blatantly obvious chunks of real-world aircraft and other models.

Star Wars has far more hilarious and obvious chunks of real world stuff slapped all over their ships.  

To bring it back to the actual topic though, how many designs from Southern Cross were actually at a scale to be bashed with anything else in the Robotech universe?  I'm not overly familiar with those designs, but the only ones that come to mind are the hover tank and helicopter (and ok, yes, the Logan ).

Were the bioroids in similar scale to something like Zentraedi armor, or anything from Mospeada?

[tekering]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

To bring it back to the actual topic though, how many designs from Southern Cross were actually at a scale to be bashed with anything else in the Robotech universe?

None, really. 🤷‍♂️

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

To bring it back to the actual topic though, how many designs from Southern Cross were actually at a scale to be bashed with anything else in the Robotech universe?  I'm not overly familiar with those designs, but the only ones that come to mind are the hover tank and helicopter (and ok, yes, the Logan ).

None, to be frank.

That was the reason Palladium's introduction of rules for "IMUs" or "Frankenmecha" were not so much poorly received as they were laughed out of town. 

The few sample designs provided looked as terrible as you'd expect and combined parts from mecha of wildly different sizes without respect for scale... with fans immediately pointing out where that didn't, and couldn't, work.  (The Auroran with Defender arms got dragged particularly hard, since the Defender's cannons are each physically bigger than the entire Auroran and they forgot about the ammunition entirely.)  The human-built mecha of Southern Cross are around 6m tall, MOSPEADA's are ~8m, and Macross's are 10m+.

The junkyard vomit that is the cobbled together battlepod replacements was just a bad stylistic choice that also failed to account for scale... but mechanical design is hard, and Palladium couldn't exactly afford to hire a professional, so they did the best they could within the constraints they had.

[CoryHolmes]

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

  I'm not overly familiar with those designs, but the only ones that come to mind are the hover tank and helicopter

 

Hey!

 

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

(and ok, yes, the Logan ).

... I thank you for that.

[CoryHolmes]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:36 PM, JB0 said:

But how are we supposed to figure out how many invid it takes to scuttle an Imperial Star Destroyer if we can't argue about it?!

Damn you.   It's been months and I'd forgotten about this question until 3am the other day. 

 

Also has there been any updates to the RPG book?  It's been months and I still can't find it online.

[pengbuzz]

On 6/23/2022 at 11:29 AM, tekering said:

None, really. 🤷‍♂️

It looks like a VF-1 could literally punt an Invid!

[Big s]

6 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

It looks like a VF-1 could literally punt an Invid!

Might have to shave or use a special shampoo afterwards 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:33 AM, CoryHolmes said:

Also has there been any updates to the RPG book?  It's been months and I still can't find it online.

None that I can see... the publisher hasn't accessed Kickstarter since mid-December and hasn't posted an update since October, when they announced a 6+ week schedule slip due to the game's art and a tentative plan to release to backers in Q1 2023.  Mentions of the game seem conspicuously absent from the publisher's Facebook page, and the page devoted to the book on the publisher's website is just a plug for the Kickstarter.

 

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

It looks like a VF-1 could literally punt an Invid!

Kinda, yeah.  None of the three shows used in Robotech's haphazard creation worked on the same scale.  It didn't pose much of an issue for the TV series because the three "sagas" all were kept segregated with no crossover, but it started to become quite silly in original materials when you had things like the Invid posing an actual threat to the Zentradi.

 

Spoiler

After all, if you were to scale everything appropriately to the average 9m-10m Zentradi foot soldier being Human-sized (1.8-2m), then the two most common Invit/Invid types that make up the vast majority of their forces stand a mere 50cm (1'8") and 102cm (3'4")... making the fight roughly equivalent to the entire United States Armed Forces being menaced by an army consisting principally of cockatoos and toddlers with no ranged weaponry to speak of.  It would almost literally look like this... if we assume the Zentradi forgot to bring little things like all of their mecha, and guns, and forgot to get dressed that morning:

 

[JAAD_SMG]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:33 PM, CoryHolmes said:

Also has there been any updates to the RPG book?  It's been months and I still can't find it online.

The RPG is ongoing. Delayed release but the book is still being worked on. The status of the book is that its done. We are just waiting on the backer art pieces. everything else is being finalized right now ready for print once the final backer art has been produced and placed in the book. its probably going to be a few more months. Updates are on our Discord and the Robotech RPG facebook page. Not the main Strange Machine Games facebook page. Thats for the companies board games. Robotech RPG has its own dedicated page where updates are posted.

(page dedicated to the Robotech RPG. Updates and previews are regular there.)

https://www.facebook.com/RobotechRPG

Edited January 17, 2023 by JAAD_SMG

[JAAD_SMG]

13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

None that I can see... the publisher hasn't accessed Kickstarter since mid-December and hasn't posted an update since October, when they announced a 6+ week schedule slip due to the game's art and a tentative plan to release to backers in Q1 2023.  Mentions of the game seem conspicuously absent from the publisher's Facebook page, and the page devoted to the book on the publisher's website is just a plug for the Kickstarter.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Updates on the book are regular on Facebook on the Robotech RPG facebook page. Everytime we get new art in and move closer we share something. We also make sure to share those posts with various Robotech pages online. The main Strange Machine Games page is for the companies board games. We sent out an update in December to backers via email.

As for the status of the project and its progress. The book is pretty much done. Page numbers are going in and we are getting ready to print. We are just waiting on the remaining backer art to place in. Probably two more months and then onto printing and shipping.

Edited January 17, 2023 by JAAD_SMG

[pengbuzz]

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

None that I can see... the publisher hasn't accessed Kickstarter since mid-December and hasn't posted an update since October, when they announced a 6+ week schedule slip due to the game's art and a tentative plan to release to backers in Q1 2023.  Mentions of the game seem conspicuously absent from the publisher's Facebook page, and the page devoted to the book on the publisher's website is just a plug for the Kickstarter.

 

Kinda, yeah.  None of the three shows used in Robotech's haphazard creation worked on the same scale.  It didn't pose much of an issue for the TV series because the three "sagas" all were kept segregated with no crossover, but it started to become quite silly in original materials when you had things like the Invid posing an actual threat to the Zentradi.

 

  Hide contents

After all, if you were to scale everything appropriately to the average 9m-10m Zentradi foot soldier being Human-sized (1.8-2m), then the two most common Invit/Invid types that make up the vast majority of their forces stand a mere 50cm (1'8") and 102cm (3'4")... making the fight roughly equivalent to the entire United States Armed Forces being menaced by an army consisting principally of cockatoos and toddlers with no ranged weaponry to speak of.  It would almost literally look like this... if we assume the Zentradi forgot to bring little things like all of their mecha, and guns, and forgot to get dressed that morning:

 

I have a better idea:

Spoiler

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by pengbuzz

[jenius]

I feel like having guns makes the size argument a lot less valid. If the smaller enemy were more numerous with guns, it feels like that's still a problem. It's like killer bees... With guns.

[Big s]

59 minutes ago, jenius said:

I feel like having guns makes the size argument a lot less valid. If the smaller enemy were more numerous with guns, it feels like that's still a problem. It's like killer bees... With guns.

Like killer bees “with frickin laser beams attached to their heads”

I kinda think Robotech was really trying way too hard to connect these unrelated stories. The invid seemed to discover humans and tried to copy them genetically, wouldn’t they have tried to become much larger to copy the zentraedi? And wouldn’t the zentraedi just see the invid as a nuisance and wipe out any planet they inhabited? The zentraedi seemed to pride themselves in the ability to just spacefold a massive fleet for the purpose of annihilating entire wolds for fun. 
 

 

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

Like killer bees “with frickin laser beams attached to their heads”

I kinda think Robotech was really trying way too hard to connect these unrelated stories. The invid seemed to discover humans and tried to copy them genetically, wouldn’t they have tried to become much larger to copy the zentraedi? And wouldn’t the zentraedi just see the invid as a nuisance and wipe out any planet they inhabited? The zentraedi seemed to pride themselves in the ability to just spacefold a massive fleet for the purpose of annihilating entire wolds for fun. 
 

 

Seems so, right?