No Love for Southern Cross?

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Okay Seto...back away from the man-sized microwave slowly...

One reason you definitely want to refer mecha repair to a qualified technician... those electric motors have to be way higher voltage than anything used today to move such huge and heavy bits of metal around so quickly and with such massive torque.  Arc fault events are already pretty damn deadly with things like high voltage electric car chargers and electric rail systems, but the electical systems to make a giant robot go make those look like the humblest watch battery.  We're talking the potential for "death by vaporization" here as a workplace mishap rather than an outcome of sci-fi raygun murder.

Spoiler

The one arc flash event I've seen at short range in my lab was a relatively low voltage one, but it was still enough to vaporize a couple inches of high-gauge copper wire and the steel bracketry holding it, set fire to the surrounding instrumentation, burst a high-impact resin enclosure, and make a noise like a gunshot and flash like a professional's camera through a sealed, opaque enclosure.  Exposed ones can give you second degree burns at 6m or more, and set fire to or vaporize your flesh if you're unfortunate enough to be in the arc itself.

 

[pengbuzz]

19 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

One reason you definitely want to refer mecha repair to a qualified technician... those electric motors have to be way higher voltage than anything used today to move such huge and heavy bits of metal around so quickly and with such massive torque.  Arc fault events are already pretty damn deadly with things like high voltage electric car chargers and electric rail systems, but the electical systems to make a giant robot go make those look like the humblest watch battery.  We're talking the potential for "death by vaporization" here as a workplace mishap rather than an outcome of sci-fi raygun murder.

  Hide contents

The one arc flash event I've seen at short range in my lab was a relatively low voltage one, but it was still enough to vaporize a couple inches of high-gauge copper wire and the steel bracketry holding it, set fire to the surrounding instrumentation, burst a high-impact resin enclosure, and make a noise like a gunshot and flash like a professional's camera through a sealed, opaque enclosure.  Exposed ones can give you second degree burns at 6m or more, and set fire to or vaporize your flesh if you're unfortunate enough to be in the arc itself.

 

And here I thought being exposed to chlorine trifluoride was bad...

[Harukajunko]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So were all the UN Forces mecha pilots in Macross... both Valkyrie pilots and Destroid pilots.

Hot take, Destroids are  cooler then Valkyries, Tomahawk my jam.

[Big s]

4 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

So were all the UN Forces mecha pilots in Macross... both Valkyrie pilots and Destroid pilots.

I think that most destroids are probably close enough to piloting a battroid with the Valkyrie being more complicated due to flight and transformation. I’d imagine that a Valkyrie pilot could easily pilot most with ease, but a destroid pilot might have more difficulty going the other way 

[sketchley]

9 minutes ago, Big s said:

I’d imagine that a Valkyrie pilot could easily pilot most with ease, but a destroid pilot might have more difficulty going the other way 

That's backed up in SDFM with Hikaru jumping into and piloting a Tomahawk in one of the latter episodes.

In Macross the First, Max first appears as a Tomahawk pilot, and later graduates to VF pilot.  However, he is probably the exception to the rule.

Edited May 22, 2022 by sketchley

[Harukajunko]

25 minutes ago, sketchley said:

In Macross the First, Max first appear

That's because it's Max most likely lol.

 

35 minutes ago, Big s said:

I think that most destroids are probably close enough to piloting a battroid

I'm going to say it probably is but with way less amenities.

[JB0]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

And here I thought being exposed to chlorine trifluoride was bad...

It is, but it is also very unlikely. It has virtually no use outside of bragging rights... and apparently semiconductor manufacture, because of course it is. Anything nasty enough to have no legitimate use seems to always find a home in semiconductors.

[Big s]

3 hours ago, sketchley said:

In Macross the First, Max first appears as a Tomahawk pilot, and later graduates to VF pilot.  However, he is probably the exception to the rule.

Knowing Max, he probably learned to actually fly his Tomahawk 

[vladykins]

On 5/21/2022 at 4:07 AM, Harukajunko said:

with how loud some groups on facebook is, I really don't get that but maybe it's just a small group of people screaming loudly that their police force has a super duper massive fleet and the UEEF only has like 12 ships and a card board box. Usually this is the same group screaming the Zentradi never fought the invid so I kiiinda ignore them.

 

hahahaha, I;m guessing the initials are DF? I've argued with him one time when he presented every new scene showing a ship meant that it was a new instance of that ship; I indicated that unless they were in the same scene together it is possible we could be seeing the same ship multiple times.

 

Going back to a much earlier conversation: I think the Logan would not have been so bad if they'd arranged to have the front cockpit fold down to make a decent battloid mode as opposed to the gerwalky "battloid" mode.

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

Hot take, Destroids are  cooler then Valkyries, Tomahawk my jam.

Now that's closer to a hot take. 😉 

 

10 hours ago, JB0 said:

It is, but it is also very unlikely. It has virtually no use outside of bragging rights... and apparently semiconductor manufacture, because of course it is. Anything nasty enough to have no legitimate use seems to always find a home in semiconductors.

Hey, if you're trying to bully an inanimate object like sand into doing complex mathematics you need to threaten it a bit first.  Y'know, let it know who's boss.

 

5 hours ago, vladykins said:

hahahaha, I;m guessing the initials are DF? I've argued with him one time when he presented every new scene showing a ship meant that it was a new instance of that ship; I indicated that unless they were in the same scene together it is possible we could be seeing the same ship multiple times.

... that is a depressingly safe bet. 😕

For better or worse, that small group of extremely noisy Masters Saga fans are their own worst enemy... and the saga's too.  On the rare occasion they make a sound point that could gain some traction with a bit of evidence, they immediately undermine it themselves by getting all confrontational when it gets questioned.  Mostly they just beat dead horses like the "Sylphid Veritech" and rail against Harmony Gold's decision to base its official stats on the Japanese OSM where possible, which tends to leave their theories at odds with established canon, the animation, and common sense.

 

5 hours ago, vladykins said:

Going back to a much earlier conversation: I think the Logan would not have been so bad if they'd arranged to have the front cockpit fold down to make a decent battloid mode as opposed to the gerwalky "battloid" mode.

Maybe so... though then it would've looked like something from a tokusatsu hero show with a massively chunky torso and silly little limbs.

Given how most of the designs in Southern Cross are pretty heavily derivative of what other franchises (read "Gundam" and "Macross") were doing at the time, I'd assume that if they considered that option it was probably vetoed for being too obviously derivative of Macross's VF-1.

[pengbuzz]

 

12 hours ago, vladykins said:

Going back to a much earlier conversation: I think the Logan would not have been so bad if they'd arranged to have the front cockpit fold down to make a decent battloid mode as opposed to the gerwalky "battloid" mode.

Possible solution:

Spoiler

You know...I think you just found the problem with both the Logan and the Spartas: the Logan took the Spartas' windshield as well!! So, we take the Logan cockpit, cut that in half and give half to the Spartas (along with the canopy). Boom! Problem solved!

Now for the snark advisory:

 

 

*runs and hides from Seto Kaiba*

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by pengbuzz

[CoryHolmes]

I still like my fan-theories more than yours! 😜

[Big s]

That shark reminds me of the real reason the people of Eternia feared Skelletor

[Podtastic]

@Harukajunko Do either you or @JAAD_SMG know when more of Fran's art is going to drop? I cant wait to see how the Bioroid Assault craft turned out. That one is pretty much my all-time favourite small ship.😃

[Harukajunko]

On 5/22/2022 at 12:19 PM, vladykins said:

hahahaha, I;m guessing the initials are DF?

yeah he was trying to 'Help' our work for a long time by attacking anyone with a pulse around us about stupid things like 'the zentradi and invid never fought' or stuff like that and routinely getting into name calling.

 

On 5/22/2022 at 6:50 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Now that's closer to a hot take. 😉 

Going to use a David Ferris argument here *Clears throat* "OBviously they are better because you see so few destroyed on screen, really the Logan would be a better veritech then the VF-1 because we only see a very limited number get shot down in the show and Marie Crystal would obviously be a much better pilot then even Roy focker which is why she's the second coming of roy!"

God please shoot me for saying that stupid crap.
 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 10:11 AM, Podtastic said:

@Harukajunko Do either you or @JAAD_SMG know when more of Fran's art is going to drop? I cant wait to see how the Bioroid Assault craft turned out. That one is pretty much my all-time favourite small ship.😃

Right now Fran last I heard was working on a few things specifically with backer pieces like mine and your's coming in once all the base artwork is done I think there was something about the ASC combat armor or something I'd need to talk to JAAD later about it.

[Podtastic]

1 hour ago, Harukajunko said:

yeah he was trying to 'Help' our work for a long time by attacking anyone with a pulse around us about stupid things like 'the zentradi and invid never fought' or stuff like that and routinely getting into name calling.

I had no idea. I don't agree with a lot of his notions but at least he values the Bioroids. That's a plus in my book, whatever his other failings may be.

1 hour ago, Harukajunko said:

Right now Fran last I heard was working on a few things specifically with backer pieces like mine and your's coming in once all the base artwork is done I think there was something about the ASC combat armor or something I'd need to talk to JAAD later about it.

Great Thanks. 

 

[Harukajunko]

1 hour ago, Podtastic said:

I had no idea.

yeah on discord he went by Brooklyn Red Leg, kept spouting that he was accredited and really the driving force of decisions PB made...

But back onto the topic of actually interesting things:

What do you guys think look better

1. The old Comics versions of the Sentinels Destroids and Z series battloids
2. the Palladium re-designs
3. maybe try mixing the two together

I for one like the palladium re-designs but they were the first I saw and look good as giant robots imo even if they look like kit bashes.

[Podtastic]

43 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

The old Comics versions of the Sentinels Destroids and Z series battloids

See answer above. The micronised Z series Regult is about the best of them, not that I like human redesigns of the alien mecha much.

If this is for Across the Stars then I'm rather more excited about the Regent's forces: Hellcats etc.

[Harukajunko]

2 minutes ago, Podtastic said:

See answer above.

I may not agree with you but your choice has been made.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

yeah he was trying to 'Help' our work for a long time by attacking anyone with a pulse around us about stupid things like 'the zentradi and invid never fought' or stuff like that and routinely getting into name calling.

So, yeah... remember when I said this?

On 5/22/2022 at 6:50 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

For better or worse, that small group of extremely noisy Masters Saga fans are their own worst enemy... and the saga's too.  On the rare occasion they make a sound point that could gain some traction with a bit of evidence, they immediately undermine it themselves by getting all confrontational when it gets questioned. 

*gestures broadly at "the Zentradi and the Invid never fought"*

Let's just call that People's Exhibit A.

As odd as it sounds, he actually did have a factually sound point... but because it was buried in the demented honking about other nonsense it ended up dismissed as another minor example of crazy.

The only depictions of the Robotech Empire-era Zentradi fighting the Invid come from the disowned/non-canonical comics from before the 2001 reboot of Robotech.  In official setting materials developed for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, it was established that the Haydonites destroyed the first Invid homeworld and the Robotech Masters destroyed the second one (Optera).  There is no mention or depiction of those two factions ever fighting each other in official material.  The Invid Regent appears to be aware of what the Zentradi are in the Prelude comic enough to taunt them about having been "slaves", but that seems to be as far as it goes.

As I mentioned in another thread, the whole idea of the Zentradi fighting the Invid makes very little sense if you think about it rationally.  Not just because the Zentradi near-exclusively favor ranged warfare in space while the Invid near-exclusively favor close quarters surface combat, but because the sheer difference in scale reduces it to absurdity.  A statistically-average Zentradi is 10m (32'10"), while your typical Invid is 2.5m (8'2").  Even the bigger ones are only about twice that, at 4.8m (15'9").  Scaled down to human size, the Invid are only about the size of a small dog (scouts) or a statistically-average seven year old (troopers) vs. an army of 6'7" basketball players with giant robots, machine guns, and body armor.

 

4 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

Going to use a David Ferris argument here *Clears throat* "OBviously they are better because you see so few destroyed on screen, really the Logan would be a better veritech then the VF-1 because we only see a very limited number get shot down in the show and Marie Crystal would obviously be a much better pilot then even Roy focker which is why she's the second coming of roy!"

God please shoot me for saying that stupid crap.

Such an authentic impression it's like he's in the room with us!

That's a favorite one of his, though he tends to get rather upset if you point out that even in the original Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross the Logan was officially stated to be an incredibly ineffective fighter with a high loss rate and that the Auroran (RT: AGACs) was rushed out to replace it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Harukajunko said:

yeah on discord he went by Brooklyn Red Leg, kept spouting that he was accredited and really the driving force of decisions PB made...

He was consulted on a few minor details, but if you visit their forums you'll find him voicing a litany of grievances with what they actually put in the books after HG shot down a lot of his positions and theories.

[Harukajunko]

15 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As odd as it sounds, he actually did have a factually sound point...

I have to admit this just feels dumb though. the zentradi quelled  the other planets and were a giant mailed fist and border protector. the idea that they never once encoutnered or knew about the invid just feels logically unsound.

 

16 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

the Invid are only about the size of a small dog (scouts) or a statistically-average seven year old (troopers) vs. an army of 6'7" basketball players with giant robots, machine guns, and body armor.

these dogs or children also shoot plasma and have sharp claws that turn even naval ships into swiss cheese. and there are lots of them. I'm pretty sure if we ran across dogs like that on earth we would be in a bit of trouble.

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

I have to admit this just feels dumb though. the zentradi quelled  the other planets and were a giant mailed fist and border protector. the idea that they never once encoutnered or knew about the invid just feels logically unsound.

It's a pretty straightforward issue, IMO.  The Masters destroyed Optera's biosphere after pillaging it for the resources - the protoculture - they would use to develop the weapons and technologies (like the Zentradi) that they would use to establish their interstellar empire.  The Invid, for their part, remained on the devastated Optera until the events of Robotech II: the Sentinels when the Regess became too wrapped up in hunting for the Flowers of Life and her evolution experiments to hold the Regent's leash and he took off to take revenge on the Masters by invading their homeworld shortly before the UEEF arrived there.

 

19 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

these dogs or children also shoot plasma and have sharp claws that turn even naval ships into swiss cheese. and there are lots of them. I'm pretty sure if we ran across dogs like that on earth we would be in a bit of trouble.

The ones with guns didn't pop up until partway thru the 3rd Robotech War.  So really, just the claws.  Mind you, they're only shown to be effective against human ships... explicitly the weakest, least advanced ones in the setting.  Even if they had the guns, those are exclusively visual-range weapons and the Zentradi are a foe that can (and do) flatten planets from orbit or as far away as a light second with impunity in the series.  A war where one side has to get within a few feet of the enemy to hurt them while the other side can destroy them and the entire planet they're on from 280,000km+ away isn't going to last very long, y'know?

[Harukajunko]

36 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A war where one side has to get within a few feet of the enemy to hurt them while the other side can destroy them and the entire planet they're on from 280,000km+ away isn't going to last very long, y'know?

Reminder humanity with just missiles, fairly low tech ones at that compared to what hte zentradi are packing managed to shred a few ships in the first episode and with not even direct hits.

 

37 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Invid, for their part, remained on the devastated Optera until the events of Robotech II: the Sentinels when the Regess became too wrapped up in hunting for the Flowers of Life and her evolution experiments to hold the Regent's leash and he took off to take revenge on the Masters by invading their homeworld shortly before the UEEF arrived there.

the fact the invid only just showed up just a bit before the humans in the sentinels just never fit with me. The idea the invid never tried small attacks or raiding and just sat in their corner supposedly super well hidden even though they have massive fleets of clam ships, I dunno it just seems a bit Too convinent to me that the invid only became a problem 20 minutes (hyperbole) before the humans got there to talk about peace.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

Reminder humanity with just missiles, fairly low tech ones at that compared to what hte zentradi are packing managed to shred a few ships in the first episode and with not even direct hits.

Not "low tech" by any means.  In both the original and Robotech versions of the story, those were advanced ersatz nukes - thermonuclear reaction weapons in Macross, "reflex" weapons in Robotech - based on alien technology.  In Robotech, the Zentradi were floored that humanity had something like that and in the original Macross version they were straight-up lost technology from the age of the Zentradi's creators that humanity reinvented based on the principles they discovered reverse-engineering the ship.

 

6 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

The idea the invid never tried small attacks or raiding and just sat in their corner supposedly super well hidden even though they have massive fleets of clam ships, I dunno it just seems a bit Too convinent to me that the invid only became a problem 20 minutes (hyperbole) before the humans got there to talk about peace.

It's much more explicable when you remember that that "massive fleet of clam ships" has no interstellar capability in Robotech's official setting.  They are strictly sublight craft and their range is basically limited to ferrying troops between orbit and a planet's surface.  The Invid were dependent on the Regess's teleportation and the Regent's small number of fold-capable ships to travel interstellar distances, both of which required vast amounts of protoculture... a resource that was in short supply for the Invid after the Masters were done glassing Optera.  They didn't have the ships or the resources to sustain an extended raiding campaign.  They could barely manage a halfhearted occupation of a handful of largely defenseless planets before being ousted by a force a tiny fraction of the size of, and far less advanced than, anything the Zentradi or Masters would've mustered.

[Harukajunko]

34 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They could barely manage a halfhearted occupation of a handful of largely defenseless planets before being ousted by a force a tiny fraction of the size of, and far less advanced than, anything the Zentradi or Masters would've mustered.

I dunno man, looking at the older content (which is really all we have on the other planets) I don't think a single one of them was half hearted occupation, like if it was the humans would have steam rolled with their space navy that they have and not needed almost every planet to be snuk onto to get a resistance force able to help them fight off everything.

 

and before I hear anyone say hte UEEF's fleet was tiny or small or smaller then the ASC's I'm calling bullshit. they knew what they were going into and a possible war with the masters, they would not have a small fleet or only the SDF-4

[Seto Kaiba]

51 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

I dunno man, looking at the older content (which is really all we have on the other planets) I don't think a single one of them was half hearted occupation, like if it was the humans would have steam rolled with their space navy that they have and not needed almost every planet to be snuk onto to get a resistance force able to help them fight off everything.

One thing to remember there is that that old content is... well... playing fast and loose with the setting, story, etc. due to Harmony Gold not exercising any creative control over its licensees.  That's why HG disowned that old material and excluded it from consideration in the official setting.

 

51 minutes ago, Harukajunko said:

and before I hear anyone say hte UEEF's fleet was tiny or small or smaller then the ASC's I'm calling bullshit. they knew what they were going into and a possible war with the masters, they would not have a small fleet or only the SDF-4

"Tiny" and "small" are relative terms.

This is an issue that the Robotech fanbase has debated heavily over the years... with a lot of inflation of numbers going on.  Neither the Southern Cross Army in Southern Cross nor the Mars Colony forces in MOSPEADA were particularly large forces.  To give you some examples:

• In Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, the military has only one branch of service in the official org chart published... it's an Army with its own Flying Corps.  There is no separate air force or space force and many of the groups that are often mistaken by Robotech fans as branches or divisons are actually individual specialist units inside the regular infantry (Tactics Corps).  The Alpha Tactics Armored Corps, for instance, is a specialism in the Tactics Corps and consists of just fifteen tank squads in total.  That's only about 300 people if you assume the 15th was at full strength.  The Southern Cross Army was so small it had only a handful of flag officers and most of the actual work running it was being done by Colonels and below.
• In Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, the 2nd Earth Recapture unit at the start of the series was by all accounts a very large force of... 10 Ikazuchi-type carriers, 40 Garfish-type transports, 160 troop landers, and 200 independently operating fighters.  Excluding the crews of those ships and shuttles, the actual force being landed was about 6,000 combat personnel in total.  For Mars Colony, that was an ENORMOUS force that contributed hugely to resolving their post-invasion overpopulation problem.
• The above has some amusing implications for Robotech.  Taken in stride with RTSC, that force accounts for approximately 12% of the UEEF's available forces in the 2040s, meaning that whole force is somewhere around 50,000 men + ship crews.  If you apply the same math to the fleet in RTSC's opening scenes, you're looking at around 7,200 fighters if every ship participating in the fight is loaded for bear.  The whole UEEF fleet seen in RTSC, supposedly almost the entirety of the UEEF, was only 395 ships, 364 of which being small escorts.

Remember, the UEEF wasn't planning to fight fair and square... their original mission was a sneak attack. 😉 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[Podtastic]

20 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

have to admit this just feels dumb though. the zentradi quelled  the other planets and were a giant mailed fist and border protector. the idea that they never once encoutnered or knew about the invid just feels logically unsound.

 

Its also boring as hell. 

The Zentraedi exist in such numbers in Macross because there was a massive meat grinder war that they were being churned out for. If you take away a credible threat in Robotech it makes one wonder why they exist in such numbers.

The novels had the Zentraedi working pretty much as you describe above. Every encounter between the Zentraedi and the Invid gave the Invid substantial numerical superiority. They also had larger Invid Mecha, specifically the Gurab, on the same scale as the Regult (this is expressly stated in the first book prologue and the Battle of Tawkhan in the last book). This works. Having the Invid in huge numbers helps to explain things like why the Zentraedi do everything en masse themselves, why they unleash swarms of missiles at a time etc. They're used to fighting massed engagements.

There could also be a solution to the irritating problem of the Invid later being defeated by the inferior REF and Sentinels forces.  This could be explained by the Zentraedi having just completed a massively successful annihilation campaign against the bulk of the Invid forces. Before the assembled fleet can initiate the final stage of the campaign and attack Optera itself, Dolza judges the destruction of the contaminated Zentraedi fleet a higher priority and they are diverted. So the Invid that we see in New Generation and Sentinels are just a small remnant. 

The bottom line is the premise of Invid vs Zentraedi, or Tirolians vs Invid, is fascinating and has great potential. It shouldn't be discarded for reasons that can be altered with the stroke of a pen (if laws can be altered with the stroke of a pen so can canon, contrary to what certain canon nazis like to think).

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Podtastic

[Harukajunko]

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, the military has only one branch of service in the official org chart published..

Seto please tell me you have this picture some where if you do I dunno what I will do but you will have my admiration as I have been arguing with people that hte ASC doesn't need 42 divisions one of which being the logistical division for EVERY OTHER DIVISION

 

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Remember, the UEEF wasn't planning to fight fair and square... their original mission was a sneak attack.

Less attack and more Sneak in and be like the americans first contact with the japanese. "Were here, open talks, This is not a request"

 

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

the actual force being landed was about 6,000 combat personnel in total.

is this accounting that all the fighters of each can double as ground troops and hte Ika's having a contingient of marines and such?

2 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Its also boring as hell. 

this is why last I checked, were ignoring it entirely. the Zents and Invid fought else there's no reason for any zent's to exist since none of the other sentinels races really had anything before the Masters hop scotched in.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

Seto please tell me you have this picture some where if you do I dunno what I will do but you will have my admiration as I have been arguing with people that hte ASC doesn't need 42 divisions one of which being the logistical division for EVERY OTHER DIVISION

You mean this old thing?  This came with This is Animation 10: Southern Cross.  It's the aforementioned official org. chart for the Southern Cross Army (as it says in the top right).  Here's the breakdown in English...

Up at the top right are the three most important people on Glorie:

• Chief of Staff Rolf Emerson, the Deputy Commander of the Army.
• Prime Minister Moran, who also bears the title of Field Marshal of the Army.
• General Claude Leon, Supreme Commander of the Army.

Up at the very top of the org. chart, you've got Prime Minister Moran (Field Marshal) in overall command of the planet.  Below him and to his left, his cabinet.  Below him and to the right, General Leon, the Supreme Commander of the Army.  Below him, you have Chief of the Military Police below them the Glorie Military Police Force (in blue).  Also below him is Chief of Staff Emerson and his direct subordinates Colonel Yazawa, Colonel Antoine, Lt. Colonel Green, and Lt. Colonel Krieger.  They collectively manage the two administrative divisions of the Army: the Land & Sea Bureau, and the "Sky" (Aerospace) Bureau.  (Glorie has a fair bit less surface water than Earth to begin with, and most of it is ice, so they don't appear to have a Navy of any description... just the Army and its Flying Corps.)

Note that the term "corps" used liberally here uses the kanji for an administrative corps, meaning the size is not fixed.  "Squad", in this case, uses the kanji for an infantry squad, the level of organization below a platoon and above a fireteam.

The Land & Sea Bureau (in pink) encompasses:

• The Tactics Corps (kanji: "Strategic Corps") - your "regular army" with ground troops and mechanized/robotic infantry supported by various specialist units including...
  • The Reconnoitering Party (kanji: "Reconnaissance Squad")
  • The Cold Squad (kanji: "Cold Regions Squad")
  • The Desert Squad (kanji: "Desert Squad")
  • The Mountaines (sic) Squad (kanji: "Mountain Squad")
  • The Forest Squad (kanji: "Forest Squad")
  • The March (sic) Squad (kanji: "Wetlands Squad")
  • The Navy Division (kanji: "Ocean Squad")
• The Alpha Tactics Armored Corps (kanji: "Strategic Armor Corps") - the armored cavalry/artillery, consisting of fifteen squads (all the way in the bottom right).  Assuming the 15th is typical in size, the whole Corps is only about 300 people or so.
• The Cities Defense Unit (kanji: "Defense Corps") - analogous to reservists or a militia
• The Supply Corps
• The Medical Corps

The Sky Bureau (in green) encompasses:

• The Tactics Air Forse (sic) (kanji: "Air Corps") - the Army's flying corps
• The Cities Defense Flying Corps (kanji: "Defense Air Corps") - the Army flying corps reserve
• The Tactics Space Corps (kanji" "Space Corps") - the Army's space flying corps
• The Tactics Armored Space Corps (kanji: "Space Armor Corps") - the Army's space robot corps
• The Transport Corps - airborne logistical transportation
• The Interstellar Transport Corps - spaceborne logistical transportation

So, in practical terms, there are only twelve administrative corps comprising the Army... eleven if you don't count the Military Police who don't technically answer to the Army Chief of Staff.  Three surface combatant corps, two air flying corps, two space flying corps, one medical corps, one supply corps, and two transport corps.  Everything on the bottom row is an element of something on the row above it, not a standalone operating group.

 

I know that was long, and I'm a wordy son of a so-and-so, but I hope that was what you were looking for.

 

5 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

Less attack and more Sneak in and be like the americans first contact with the japanese. "Were here, open talks, This is not a request"

As it's put in the Macross Saga when the idea is first introduced, it's more a swift decapitation strike to deprive the Masters of their ability to wage war and THEN diplomacy once they're no longer a threat.  It got flanderized a bit in Sentinels to a heavily armed diplomatic mission first.

 

5 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

is this accounting that all the fighters of each can double as ground troops and hte Ika's having a contingient of marines and such?

Yes and no.  The numbers used are the accurate specs from the animation's creators, not the badly inflated fanfic numbers from the uRRG that don't match the material.  Infantry are carried by the assault landers, not the escorting space warships.

Each of the 10 Ikazuchi-class carriers holds 144 Legioss armo-fighters (10*144=1,440).  Each of the Garfish-class high speed transports holds 9 Legioss armo-fighters (9*40 = 360).  Each Horizont-class descent shuttle holds 12 ground troops in each landing pod (24*160=3,840) and one Legioss+TLEAD combiner with one pilot apiece (160), the 200 independently operating Legioss+TLEAD combiners means either 200 or 400 pilots depending on whether both are crewed, for a grand total of 6,000-6,200 personnel on the ground when all is said and done.

 

 

5 hours ago, Harukajunko said:

this is why last I checked, were ignoring it entirely. the Zents and Invid fought else there's no reason for any zent's to exist since none of the other sentinels races really had anything before the Masters hop scotched in.

The problem being, as noted previously, it sounds cool on the surface but once you start to think about it you realize any such battle would be an embarrassing one-sided turkey shoot to the Zentradi's advantage... which doesn't really count as "fought" in my book, since only one side is actually fighting and the other side is just one-sidedly dying.

[Harukajunko]

14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

any such battle would be an embarrassing one-sided

You say this but they stomped the Tirolians which you can argue would be because most had left but we know they had some form of millitary forces left behind, not to mention the forces across the sentinels worlds.

 

19 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I know that was long, and I'm a wordy son of a so-and-so, but I hope that was what you were looking for.

while wordy still useful.

[JAAD_SMG]

On 5/24/2022 at 12:11 AM, Podtastic said:

@Harukajunko Do either you or @JAAD_SMG know when more of Fran's art is going to drop? I cant wait to see how the Bioroid Assault craft turned out. That one is pretty much my all-time favourite small ship.😃

It drops weeklish. He only has a few items left. Most of which are naval assets.

 

asked him to switch to ASC art since we wanted to layout those pages. So he has been producing most of those plus some occasional UEEF. He did drop art of the Masters Light Drone though.

Edited May 26, 2022 by JAAD_SMG

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Harukajunko said:

You say this but they stomped the Tirolians which you can argue would be because most had left but we know they had some form of millitary forces left behind, not to mention the forces across the sentinels worlds.

Largely defenseless Tirolians, mind you... in what little of the Sentinels story remains canon, the Masters basically stripped Tirol of its defenses and fuel reserves when they went tearing off into space after Zor's battlefortress.

 

Just now, Harukajunko said:

while wordy still useful.

Practically my trademark. XD

[JAAD_SMG]

10 hours ago, Podtastic said:

The bottom line is the premise of Invid vs Zentraedi, or Tirolians vs Invid, is fascinating and has great potential. It shouldn't be discarded for reasons that can be altered with the stroke of a pen.

I had a fan tell me that they never fought and the Invid would never stand a chance if they did so they should be depicted so.

I have ignored him for the rendition of the Masters/Invid War in our draft of the Among the Stars book.

All your points are also ones that i came to the same conclusion on.

[Podtastic]

Tirolian Heavy Cruiser pic posted on FB. I must say this looks way better than I would have expected.🙂

[Podtastic]

@CoryHolmes I've just seen an updated pdf of the Homefront RPG. There are nice pics of all 3 modes of the Spartas/Hovertank therein which I am sure that, as a Hovertank fan, you will appreciate.