No Love for Southern Cross?

[Podtastic]

Apparently its' stealth works in the same manner as that of the Bioroid Terminator. From the Trap/Labyrinth episode that looked to me more like  surroundings blending camouflage than a Predator/Sangheili style cloaking device. 

Unless it has some ubertech to deal with it, the noise this thing would make "sneaking around like a ninja" is where I have a problem. I see it as something that would have to lie in wait like an ambush predator.  An expendable assassination unit.

Then again maybe it's stealth just works cos the Tirolians all believe it does...

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, Podtastic said:

Apparently its' stealth works in the same manner as that of the Bioroid Terminator.

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... the what now?  There's no model of Bioroid by that name.

 

  On 5/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, Podtastic said:

Unless it has some ubertech to deal with it, the noise this thing would make "sneaking around like a ninja" is where I have a problem. I see it as something that would have to lie in wait like an ambush predator.  An expendable assassination unit.

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That's basically what it'd have to be... because a technological solution is explicitly off the table in the setting, and slathering a 6m tall, 12.5t robot in radar absorbent material would do precisely jack to make it sound less like a dumpster rolling end over end down a hill the minute it started moving.

 

  On 5/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, Podtastic said:

Then again maybe it's stealth just works cos the Tirolians all believe it does...

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I'm pretty sure this is a case of its stealth only working because the fans believe it does... the Orks, at least, have an in-universe justification for their shenanigans.  

[tekering]

  On 5/16/2022 at 6:32 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

There's no model of Bioroid by that name.

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There certainly isn't... not even in Robotech.

Apparently, this soldier's job was to kill robots. 🤨

Robots used by his own army, no less... 🤭

🙄

That nonsensical nomenclature was probably Matchbox's doing. 😒

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/16/2022 at 7:55 PM, tekering said:

There certainly isn't... not even in Robotech.

Apparently, this soldier's job was to kill robots. 🤨

Robots used by his own army, no less... 🤭

🙄

That nonsensical nomenclature was probably Matchbox's doing. 😒

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... well, that is a thing I have certainly seen with my eyes now.

The actual **** is that supposed to be?

[JB0]

Oh, that brings back memories! I had one of those as a kid!

[pengbuzz]

  On 5/16/2022 at 8:11 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

... well, that is a thing I have certainly seen with my eyes now.

The actual **** is that supposed to be?

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HG's attempt at bad comedy, I would assume.

[Big s]

As far as the stupidly named bioroid terminator, I would love a great new action figure of him. I don’t have any idea what they were called in the original souther cross series, but in the one or two episodes with them, like most of the personal armors, I loved the design. On an odd note, how do they sit with that giant beetle butt?

[Podtastic]

  On 5/16/2022 at 8:11 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The actual **** is that supposed to be?

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Its the "wrong" colour. You see purple versions of them in the SC episode, Labyrinth. You also see un-helmeted ones in other parts of the series e.g. when Marie Angel breaks into a Bioroid Assault Craft.

I

And you see them piloting Bioroids in Sentinels. 

  On 5/16/2022 at 8:32 PM, JB0 said:

I had one of those as a kid!

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I still have 3. Of the Matchbox offerings they, and the armoured Zentraedi warrior figs, were about the best.

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:00 AM, Big s said:

On an odd note, how do they sit with that giant beetle butt?

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Watch the Trap/Labyrinth episode where two of them are shot again. Its flexible.

[Podtastic]

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:00 AM, Big s said:

I would love a great new action figure of him. I don’t have any idea what they were called in the original souther cross series, but in the one or two episodes with them, like most of the personal armors, I loved the design.

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Oh absolutely. I'd be in for army building them.

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 10/31/2021 at 1:33 PM, Podtastic said:

Humans, always getting in the way!😆

I wonder if this will appear in the Homefront RPG as it never appeared in the RT comics and novels AFAIK.

The only other place I saw it was in Solar Flair's game.

 

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Hey. I've worked with SMG. Can confirm. is in the book as the Imperial Bioroid.

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 5/11/2022 at 2:44 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

That's not peak fanfic cringe, but it's up there.

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Tell me about it. I worked on the book and wrote the original version of this mecha. I had a different original concept. but this what it came out as and i'm happy enough.

We put so much emphasis into the Masters to really flesh them out and HG allowed us to. They are very strict on the stuff that already exists but are happy for us to make new stuff.

Edited May 17, 2022 by JAAD_SMG

[tekering]

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:28 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Can confirm. is in the book as the Imperial Bioroid.

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Oh, so the Masters are an empire now?  That's an entirely new sociopolitical structure.  Who's the Emperor? 

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 5/17/2022 at 10:41 AM, Podtastic said:

Its the "wrong" colour. You see purple versions of them in the SC episode, Labyrinth. You also see un-helmeted ones in other parts of the series e.g. when Marie Angel breaks into a Bioroid Assault Craft.

 

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The lighter colour of the toy has been approved for the current art of it in the Homefront book. We are assuming the its camouflage ability simply allows it to change colour XD

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:46 PM, tekering said:

Oh, so the Masters are an empire now?  That's an entirely new sociopolitical structure.  Who's the Emperor? 

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So. The Robotech Masters Empire was a large galaxy spanning empire that evolved from the Tirolian Republic. It was transformed by the Robotech Masters (The three Masters from the show aka the bald dudes) themselves and they rule over it as the highest authority.

below them in the hierarchy of the empire falls the lesser Master Triumvirates who manage different affairs of state. each of those having their government departments as it were. aka the War Masters, the Science Masters, etc.

The Tirolian senate which became the Robotech Masters senate ceased to exist following the Robotech Masters departure from Tirol itself.

 

A crazy amount of research and effort went into fleshing out the Masters saga the most for Homefront. Goal no1. make the middle saga cool enough that people want to play games set in it.

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 5/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, Podtastic said:

Apparently its' stealth works in the same manner as that of the Bioroid Terminator. From the Trap/Labyrinth episode that looked to me more like  surroundings blending camouflage than a Predator/Sangheili style cloaking device. 

Unless it has some ubertech to deal with it, the noise this thing would make "sneaking around like a ninja" is where I have a problem. I see it as something that would have to lie in wait like an ambush predator.  An expendable assassination unit.

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When i designed the mecha for the game, it was originally meant to be used for sniper duty. It was never really meant to be a robot ninja, though the look was inspired by that concept. We called it a Stealth Bioroid simply because special operations Bioroid did not really fit the naming convention.

I envisioned the Stealth Bioroid always using it cloaking system to reach the edges of a battlefield where it would then snipe targets. its stealth was always meant to be limited in its use because of how much Protoculture it would drain in my mind. Though, i never thought of it as expendable. Its still a Bioroid. with all the perks that entails. 

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 10/6/2021 at 3:46 AM, CoryHolmes said:

Yeah, what Seto said.  To add my own $0.02CAD, Palladium's games had much more background and worldbuilding material, even if they had to invent some of it.  One of the things I really appreciate about the 2nd Ed game is the breakdown it gave to the various Zentradi castes:  Run-of-the-mill Warrior caste?  Very little development, 'alpha-male' mentality, and only expected to live a few weeks to months in combat conditions.  The Warlord caste, like Khyron and Azonia?  A bit more developed, a bit better thinkers, but easily swayed by powerful emotions like teenagers and adolescents.  High Command, like Breetai?  Exceedingly well-developed, trained, educated, and expected to lead their fleets for decades or more.

 

One of the passages that really stuck with me was in the Reconstruction-Era, where the Zentradi are having difficulty assimilating.  "In the end, the Zentradi on Earth have a difficult road ahead of them.  The strongest will persevere and find some measure of peace and co-existence on this strange planet of humans.  The weak, the bitter, and the violent will return to their warrior ways and become rebels, hunted by humans and assimilated Zentradi alike.  Ultimately, these rebels will meet the same end as generations of their race, to die and be forgotten on the vast fields of war."

 

There's similar worldbuilding for the Masters book, going into the various nation-states of the fractured Earth and how they all have to work together to supply the ASC.  Some with men, some with material, and some with money.  It's entirely possible to have a squad with members from otherwise competing nation-states.

 

I didn't see anything like that in SMGs version, instead it seemed more of a "here's how to play, make your own story" kind of deal.

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So. Here is the problem right. SMG had to fit a Core rules, the mecha and all of that into 1 book. If the book didn't contain the rules, then the amount of world building would have been much more. This is why SMG want to go back and elaborate on that stuff and why the splat books for the future sagas are almost all lore and mecha.

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/17/2022 at 10:41 AM, Podtastic said:

Its the "wrong" colour. You see purple versions of them in the SC episode, Labyrinth. You also see un-helmeted ones in other parts of the series e.g. when Marie Angel breaks into a Bioroid Assault Craft.

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That's just a person in body armor.

"Bioroid Terminator"... pfft... peak cringe indeed.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:28 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Hey. I've worked with SMG.

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You poor thing.  Do you need a hug?

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:45 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Tell me about it. I worked on the book and wrote the original version of this mecha. I had a different original concept. somewhere along the way, a fan started claiming credit for it. It looked worse before. We had the artist change a lot of things about it.

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Unless the "different original concept" wasn't "stealth giant land warfare robot", the original concept was just as cringy as its final form TBH.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:45 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

We put so much emphasis into the Masters to really flesh them out and HG allowed us to. They are very strict on the stuff that already exists but are happy for us to make new stuff.

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As expected, yeah... HG no longer cares about pretending the Robotech brand is commercially viable, so they haven't bothered to police the new game for quality.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:46 PM, tekering said:

Oh, so the Masters are an empire now?  That's an entirely new sociopolitical structure.  Who's the Emperor? 

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In all fairness, they've been calling them that since at least Robotech II: the Sentinels... 

The rest, however, is more or less just arse-pulls on the part of the various novel, comic, and RPG writers whose work HG officially and publicly considers to be garbage. 😉 

I believe their schtick is still that the Sentinels story is basically the Macross Saga characters faffing about in the territory that used to be the Masters interstellar empire before Zor kneecapped them and the Masters picked up and left.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:54 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

A crazy amount of research and effort went into fleshing out the Masters saga the most for Homefront.

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... researching what, exactly?  There's so little official material that you could write it all on a paper napkin and still have plenty of room left over for a few artful diagrams about what a complete and total pillock Jeanne/Dana is.  That's why the last publisher, Palladium Books, had to pad their small form-factor paperback Masters Saga sourcebook so like it was a menstruating firehose.  It was a 256 page book with around 25 pages of actual content.

(Hell, if you wanted to put ALL of the official info for the original Southern Cross together in one place you'd only really need about one postcard's worth of paper to fit it all.  I should know, I've translated it.  It is DEPRESSING.)

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:54 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Goal no1. make the middle saga cool enough that people want to play games set in it.

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I'd like to be charitable call that an uphill battle, but calling it a boondoggle or fool's errand is probably more honest and accurate.

Unfortunately, you're about *checks watch* thirty-six-and-a-half years late to the party if you were hoping to salvage the Masters Saga's reputation.  The Robotech fanbase's mind was made up about the Masters Saga long ago and no amount of turd-polishing is going to change their minds about it.  To be frank, it's kind of a waste of effort first and foremost because the overwhelming majority of the fans who buy the RPG have no intention of ever playing it.  Its utility, in the eyes of Robotech fans, has always been as a substitute for the kind of artbooks and tech manuals that successful anime properties get.  

FWIW, SMG showed some sense in that they made the Macross Saga the core book and combined the other story arcs so that a kinda-popular arc and wildly unpopular arc were put together into one book... the Masters Saga riding the New Generation's coattails, and the Shadow Chronicles riding the coattails of The Sentinels.  That way, they at least guarantee reasonable sales for all books instead of having half the game be deadweight sourcebooks like Palladium did.  (The New Generation sourcebook was basically redundant since all of its core content was in the core book, the Genesis Pits sourcebook was a glorified generic monster manual, and the UEEF Marines sourcebook was bad comedy.)

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 2:14 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

So. Here is the problem right. SMG had to fit a Core rules, the mecha and all of that into 1 book. If the book didn't contain the rules, then the amount of world building would have been much more. This is why SMG want to go back and elaborate on that stuff and why the splat books for the future sagas are almost all lore and mecha.

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The core rules aren't that long... certainly not compared to Palladium's doorstopper of a skills index... and there aren't that many mecha in the Macross Saga either.  Optional bolt-ons aside, unless you go absolutely hog-wild documenting minor background designs with no bearing on the story there's really only about two dozen core designs if you include the ships.

[JAAD_SMG]

  On 5/17/2022 at 2:54 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

That's just a person in body armor.

"Bioroid Terminator"... pfft... peak cringe indeed.

 

You poor thing.  Do you need a hug?

 

Unless the "different original concept" wasn't "stealth giant land warfare robot", the original concept was just as cringy as its final form TBH.

 

As expected, yeah... HG no longer cares about pretending the Robotech brand is commercially viable, so they haven't bothered to police the new game for quality.

 

In all fairness, they've been calling them that since at least Robotech II: the Sentinels... 

The rest, however, is more or less just arse-pulls on the part of the various novel, comic, and RPG writers whose work HG officially and publicly considers to be garbage. 😉 

I believe their schtick is still that the Sentinels story is basically the Macross Saga characters faffing about in the territory that used to be the Masters interstellar empire before Zor kneecapped them and the Masters picked up and left.

 

... researching what, exactly?  There's so little official material that you could write it all on a paper napkin and still have plenty of room left over for a few artful diagrams about what a complete and total pillock Jeanne/Dana is.  That's why the last publisher, Palladium Books, had to pad their small form-factor paperback Masters Saga sourcebook so like it was a menstruating firehose.  It was a 256 page book with around 25 pages of actual content.

(Hell, if you wanted to put ALL of the official info for the original Southern Cross together in one place you'd only really need about one postcard's worth of paper to fit it all.  I should know, I've translated it.  It is DEPRESSING.)

 

I'd like to be charitable call that an uphill battle, but calling it a boondoggle or fool's errand is probably more honest and accurate.

Unfortunately, you're about *checks watch* thirty-six-and-a-half years late to the party if you were hoping to salvage the Masters Saga's reputation.  The Robotech fanbase's mind was made up about the Masters Saga long ago and no amount of turd-polishing is going to change their minds about it.  To be frank, it's kind of a waste of effort first and foremost because the overwhelming majority of the fans who buy the RPG have no intention of ever playing it.  Its utility, in the eyes of Robotech fans, has always been as a substitute for the kind of artbooks and tech manuals that successful anime properties get.  

FWIW, SMG showed some sense in that they made the Macross Saga the core book and combined the other story arcs so that a kinda-popular arc and wildly unpopular arc were put together into one book... the Masters Saga riding the New Generation's coattails, and the Shadow Chronicles riding the coattails of The Sentinels.  That way, they at least guarantee reasonable sales for all books instead of having half the game be deadweight sourcebooks like Palladium did.  (The New Generation sourcebook was basically redundant since all of its core content was in the core book, the Genesis Pits sourcebook was a glorified generic monster manual, and the UEEF Marines sourcebook was bad comedy.)

 

The core rules aren't that long... certainly not compared to Palladium's doorstopper of a skills index... and there aren't that many mecha in the Macross Saga either.  Optional bolt-ons aside, unless you go absolutely hog-wild documenting minor background designs with no bearing on the story there's really only about two dozen core designs if you include the ships.

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Its a great game. I came on as a fan originally to beta test and i loved it. and i love Robotech. I think thats more than what i can say for you.

SMG's writers are all fans of the show. They bought the license because they wanted to do something new.

I've spent nights going over every single piece of material ever produced for Robotech. Going back and forth with HG for approval.

The SMG system is the best RPG i have ever played as a gamer.  If you don't understand it. i'd be happy to run a game for you. to show you how everything works. sounds like you need it.

I've loved working on these books so that we can update Robotech for the current year. We wanted to make something new and different in terms of a game and we wanted to bring more to Robotech from the RPG's than had ever been done. And we are not finished. so you can look forward to more content from us.

if you really don't like our work thats fine. No one asked you to. I'm just here to answer questions honestly and share what i know with others.

Edited May 17, 2022 by JAAD_SMG

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/17/2022 at 3:21 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Its a great game. I came on as a fan originally to beta test and i loved it. and i love Robotech. I think thats more than what i can say for you.

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I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt assume you're not actually trying a No True Scotsman here and simply agree that it is more than you can say for me because I've read the SMG game and defintiely don't think that it's great or love it.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 3:21 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

SMG's writers are all fans of the show. They bought the license because they wanted to do something new.

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... and that's a big part of the quality problem.

Not just at SMG, mind you... I'm talking franchise-wide.

I've been with the Robotech fandom for a long damn time.  One terribly depressing thing I realized a long time ago is that most "Robotech fans" aren't actually fans of Robotech... they are fans of their own Robotech fan fiction.  So much so that many Robotech fans literally cannot differentiate between their personal headcanon and what is actually in the show.  To give you an example, I know a bloke who swears blind that in the original Robotech test screenings there was a scene where Scott killed Corg execution style with a minimissile from his Cyclone.  No such scene ever existed, but he is COMPLETELY convinced that it did.  The few prominent Robotech fansites do more to misinform than inform, either pushing long-debunked and officially-refuted fan theories or simply being fan fiction efforts to write material from Macross sequels into Robotech's story.

You can do something as a labor of love and still do it badly.  When the fans - who are, let's face it, amateurs - get involved, what results inevitably sounded and looked cooler in their imaginations.  It's especially problematic when those inventions don't fit with the setting and/or don't make sense in-universe or out like the so-called Stealth Bioroid or the claims in the RTSC artbook that the Alpha is a passively stealthy fighter.  (And I won't pretend to be any exception.  It's the reason I don't permit myself to do original designs when I work on homebrew content on my own or with others.)

That was why, when HG was actually serious about Robotech's future prospects, the RPG writers weren't allowed to invent their own original material: because HG wanted the game to look professional and be reflective of Robotech's actual content.  The reason SMG is being allowed to create their own original additions is because HG no longer cares about their game's quality or making the franchise look professional.  They stopped caring about a decade ago, when they had to come clean that Shadow Rising wasn't getting made and their mgmt publicly switched to putting all their eggs in the "scrap it and start over" live action movie basket.  I'd expect they care even less now that they've bent the knee to Big West.

(IMO, licensing Robotech because you wanted to do something new sounds like one of those ironic hells from Dante's Inferno... the only franchise I can think of offhand that's more of a poster child for stasis than Robotech is Warhammer 40,000.)

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 3:21 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

I've spent nights going over every single piece of material ever produced for Robotech. Going back and forth with HG.

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As someone who's been there before, I renew my offer of a sympathy hug.

A similar review was why HG publicly disowned the pre-2001 licensee-created materials back in '06 and dismissed them as being so bad they'd never have been allowed to see the light of day if they had been exercising QC over the content.  A review of the official setting materials only would've been a much shorter crawl.

Due to the fragmented nature of the Masters Saga's writing back in '85, trying to make it internally consistent is a Sisyphean task because of all the inconsistencies caused by the writers making it up as they went.  Trying to make it cool comes with the handicap that the original show was cancelled and the Robotech adaptation underperformed becasue the audience kinda hated everything about it.  That's one reason HG defaults to the Japanese OSM so much.  It's more consistent.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 3:21 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

The SMG system is the best RPG i have ever played as a gamer.  If you don't understand it. i'd be happy to run a game for you. to show you how everything works. sounds like you need it.

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Your offer is very generous, but I must decline.  Work has ensured I have little space in my calendar for anything else, and I would hate for you to go to the trouble on my account if I were not able to reliably attend.  I have a pretty reasonable understanding of the system itself, I just don't care for it.  If it helps, you can blame it on me being set in my ways as a gamer who started on D&D 3rd Ed., the old [i]Star Wars[/i] RPG, and Palladium RT1E.

[JAAD_SMG]

Honestly. i don't think I'm the one who needs the hug.

[tekering]

Most of us here were children of the '80s, having grown up with Robotech, Star Wars, Transformers, Ghostbusters, Alien, Predator, and Star Trek...

 

...and, given what has been done to every single one of these franchises in the 21st century...

 

...I think we all need a hug. 🤕

[Harukajunko]

Hello, I am another person who worked on the SMG system though not as a paid employee, but as a volunteer to the project and have to say as someone who never really enjoyed the animated content of the Masters Saga, We 100% wanted to make sure the content was still fun and worked for people to play with else there would be no reason to include it in the book in the first place.

Our intentions were not to have 'Masters ride the coat tails of New gen' as we know there are a large chunk of people from the Palladium era and even now that still think it's the best Era, and while I may not agree we still wanted to make sure they could have the same level of fun and involvement compared to any other Era. We did have to expand upon lore in ways to add more room for role play, but most of it was already there from comics, novels and other sources. One of our members working on it, Lorindor, is a massive masters fan who went out of his way researching every bit of masters era lore he could working with JAAD_SMG to help flesh out the Masters Saga in a way that makes sense and actually matters for role play with the world building and also helped with making the Stealth Bioroid.

The Stealth Bioroid IIRC was meant for Sniping duties, sneaking into area's with fighting to support other Bioroid units or to try and pick out valuable targets like exposed Spartas pilots/Commanders

On top of that HG has actually been policing content for the SMG books as we have been in close contact with them through the production of the book and has been working with us on charges to the art for the book so even still, HG has been policing our work very thoroughly and we have had to justify our writing and additions such as the Stealth Bioroid. If anything they have been more strict on what we write then what Palladium was allowed to write.

I do hope though if you have an questions we can chat it out with you guys here since we all enjoy Robotech, even if what we like differs were still fans of the same stuff.
 

  On 5/17/2022 at 6:20 PM, tekering said:

Most of us here were children of the '80s, having grown up with Robotech, Star Wars, Transformers, Ghostbusters, Alien, Predator, and Star Trek...

 

...and, given what has been done to every single one of these franchises in the 21st century...

 

...I think we all need a hug. 🤕

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Dear god please I need a hug watching everything I love burn to the ground... it's painful at this point, a dull pain but painful

[Bolt]

Welcome to MW guys. Thanks for sharing. Your efforts are appreciated. 
And ,

  On 5/17/2022 at 6:20 PM, tekering said:

Most of us here were children of the '80s, having grown up with Robotech, Star Wars, Transformers, Ghostbusters, Alien, Predator, and Star Trek...

 

...and, given what has been done to every single one of these franchises in the 21st century...

 

...I think we all need a hug. 🤕

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Word up !

[DewPoint]

Welcome to Macross World!  Most of the active members here are open to discussion, but you may want to consider that while the vast majority of members started out as Robotech fans, the majority are no longer for many many reasons. While there are members the still purchase Robotech goods, I would wager that the majority do not or will not.  A lot of it has to do with how HG treated the original Macross IP over the years. 

[Harukajunko]

  On 5/17/2022 at 7:30 PM, DewPoint said:

Welcome to Macross World!  Most of the active members here are open to discussion, but you may want to consider that while the vast majority of members started out as Robotech fans, the majority are no longer for many many reasons. While there are members the still purchase Robotech goods, I would wager that the majority do not or will not.  A lot of it has to do with how HG treated the original Macross IP over the years. 

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That's fair, HG hasn't.... uhhh... 'handled it the best' but even still I'm glad to be here and chat with you guys.

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/17/2022 at 6:36 PM, Harukajunko said:

Our intentions were not to have 'Masters ride the coat tails of New gen' as we know there are a large chunk of people from the Palladium era and even now that still think it's the best Era, and while I may not agree we still wanted to make sure they could have the same level of fun and involvement compared to any other Era.

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Eh... it might not have been your intention personally, but the business rationale behind the decision is pretty damned obvious esp. given what Harmony Gold itself has said about the situation. 🙄

One of the more frustrating truisms for the Southern Cross fans is that, even among Robotech fans, the story was so poorly received that no licensees were willing to even consider merchandise for it.  That only changed recently, and not by much, when Harmony Gold had to start licensing to the less risk-averse indie crowd due to a lack of interest elsewhere.  It kinda says something that the last Robotech comic literally wrote the Masters Saga out of the timeline entirely.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 6:36 PM, Harukajunko said:

We did have to expand upon lore in ways to add more room for role play, but most of it was already there from comics, novels and other sources.

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  On 5/17/2022 at 6:36 PM, Harukajunko said:

If anything they have been more strict on what we write then what Palladium was allowed to write.

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Just so you know, the first statement here disproves the second.

When Harmony Gold was exercising editorial control over Palladium Books's work on the Robotech 2nd Edition RPG, they expressly forbade any reference to material from pre-2001 comics, the novels, or any of the other material they had publicly disowned as "poor quality" and "Robotech in name only".  Original designs, factions, etc. were also right out.  It was strictly limited to material that was in the 85 episodes of the TV series, the OSM, and the RTSC setting material.  That's why the game ran into content problems so quickly after its first two books.  The closest they were allowed to get to creating new designs for the game was writing background for MOSPEADA concept art and drawing new art for the legally problematic Sentinels destroids and battle pods.

If they're letting you include material drawn from the novels and pre-2001 comics, or add original designs of your own creation, they are not being anywhere NEAR as strict on you as they were on Palladium when they were still taking the franchise seriously.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 6:36 PM, Harukajunko said:

Dear god please I need a hug watching everything I love burn to the ground... it's painful at this point, a dull pain but painful

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It's been a rough couple years, hasn't it?

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 4:55 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Honestly. i don't think I'm the one who needs the hug.

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If anyone connected to Robotech needs one, it's probably Tommy. 

He tried.  He really tried.  But whooboy did the fans eat him alive for it.  Even Titan Comics took the piss out of his work before they got cancelled.

[Harukajunko]

  On 5/17/2022 at 10:18 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

One of the more frustrating truisms for the Southern Cross fans is that, even among Robotech fans, the story was so poorly received that no licensees were willing to even consider merchandise for it.

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I know that in Japan the show had that problem where no merch was made but I know for a fact Matchbox had a huge line to the point Japanese collectors and fans had to buy from America in order to get the toys.

  On 5/17/2022 at 10:18 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

When Harmony Gold was exercising editorial control over Palladium Books's work on the Robotech 2nd Edition RPG, they expressly forbade any reference to material from pre-2001 comics, the novels, or any of the other material they had publicly disowned as "poor quality" and "Robotech in name only". 

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I remember things that were never in anything making it into Palladium, because unless I am mistaken, Gura Invid were never part of anything Robotech or Robotech in name only even. I remember some other oddities from palladium's books but can't name them off the top of my brain.

 

Overall As some who, I remind you is not paid what so ever at all to support, write or do anything with SMG's game, that you guys at least are willing to try the books and feel the difference between it and palladium, not as a competitor to what Palladium did but as a different style of playing it, Less simulation and more like it's the style representing an anime episode and that we can get along with our differences in style of robotech but still be civil.

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/17/2022 at 11:43 PM, Harukajunko said:

I know that in Japan the show had that problem where no merch was made but I know for a fact Matchbox had a huge line to the point Japanese collectors and fans had to buy from America in order to get the toys.

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That's... not quite accurate either.

Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross did actually receive some merchandising when it first aired in Japan.  The reason many fans believe otherwise is that very little made it out to stores before the series was cancelled, and what did come out was a weirdly scattershot collection of apparel like rain boots and a few "adult" plamodels of the arming doublet.  It ended up that way because Tatsunoko's staff didn't finalize many of the key designs until right before the start of production and didn't settle on a title until after production of the animation had started.  Licensees were able to run out a few plamodels of the earliest designs to be frozen for production and some screen-printed apparel, but a lot of Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross's merchandise was still quite literally on the drawing board when the viewership numbers came back and the licensees learned the series was a massive flop.

Matchbox did have a modest line of (low quality) toys based on the Masters Saga, but there was basically no interest in Southern Cross in Japan and even less awareness that the series had been shipped overseas.  There was definitely not any significant importation of the American toys, which would not have been possible through normal channels as a result of the limitations on Harmony Gold's license.  You can basically count the number of Japanese Southern Cross fans on one hand... even Harmony Gold will cheerfully admit that Tatsunoko itself barely remembers the show exists.

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 11:43 PM, Harukajunko said:

I remember things that were never in anything making it into Palladium, because unless I am mistaken, Gura Invid were never part of anything Robotech or Robotech in name only even. I remember some other oddities from palladium's books but can't name them off the top of my brain.

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Like I said here...

  On 5/17/2022 at 10:18 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It was strictly limited to material that was in the 85 episodes of the TV series, the OSM, and the RTSC setting material.

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Much like Harmony Gold itself did in that period, Palladium's "2nd Edition" Robotech RPG drew pretty heavily on the original source material for the three Japanese shows both for basic stats and for "inspiration" when it came to some of the later sourcebooks.  The Gura Invit fall into that broad category, alongside basically everything in the Marines book.  A number of the early Invit drafts, as well as Kakinuma's more modern interpretations of the Invit, look a lot more organic and alive than the final designs.  Though really all they did was make the existing designs spiky and apply a common misconception that there is no distinction between the Invit and their mecha.  (Invit mecha were always semi-alive in the original MOSPEADA though, as a result of being powered by life energy from the pilot or nearby hives.)

 

  On 5/17/2022 at 11:43 PM, Harukajunko said:

Overall As some who, I remind you is not paid what so ever at all to support, write or do anything with SMG's game, that you guys at least are willing to try the books and feel the difference between it and palladium, not as a competitor to what Palladium did but as a different style of playing it, Less simulation and more like it's the style representing an anime episode and that we can get along with our differences in style of robotech but still be civil.

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Just remember, "civil" and "approbatory" are not the same thing. 😉 

At the very least, we'll be gentler than the Robotech fandom as a whole usually is though.  They can be pretty brutal.  

It's not a competitor, but it does invite the inevitable comparison when it comes to gameplay style and accuracy to the official setting.  The former is subjective, but from what I've read thus far Palladium stands head and shoulders above SMG in terms of accuracy thanks to better sourcing practices.

[Harukajunko]

  On 5/18/2022 at 1:57 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Much like Harmony Gold itself did in that period, Palladium's "2nd Edition" Robotech RPG drew pretty heavily on the original source material for the three Japanese shows both for basic stats and for "inspiration" when it came to some of the later sourcebooks.

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While this may be true, What of 'Mecha Sudai' or Lancers rockers (I hate to bring that up I think everyone hates Lancers rockers.)

 

  On 5/18/2022 at 1:57 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Just remember, "civil" and "approbatory" are not the same thing.

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Nope I understand, not everyone with like the choices we make nor would I expect it. I just aim for civil discussion of RPG's.

One thing I do atelast offer to anyone, palladium players, other rpg players or just fans of Robotech is some chances to play the system be it one shot or short campaign's if they want to get hands on with the system. Atleast for me I have found some rpgs I thought I would hate but enjoyed when sitting down to play.

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 5/18/2022 at 2:40 AM, Harukajunko said:

While this may be true, What of 'Mecha Sudai' or Lancers rockers (I hate to bring that up I think everyone hates Lancers rockers.)

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Those... "eccentricities"... are from 1st Edition, the original Palladium Books Robotech RPG from the 80's that was (in HG's words) made when "nobody was minding the store" at HG.  Those oddities, and the fair amount of copyright infringement in the pre-2001 comics, are why HG publicly disowned all pre-reboot licensee-made materials and insisted on the frankly draconian editorial and legal reviews of PB's manuscripts when PB reacquired the license.

[CoryHolmes]

  On 5/18/2022 at 2:40 AM, Harukajunko said:

While this may be true, What of 'Mecha Sudai' or Lancers rockers (I hate to bring that up I think everyone hates Lancers rockers.)

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Well, yes, but look at how that built more on the world of the post-Invid Invasi... nope.  Nope, not even me, in my PB-infused childhood fun, can defend that book.  It's bad bad.

 

Except for the cover art.  That Lancer Rocked!

[Podtastic]

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:28 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Hey. I've worked with SMG. Can confirm. is in the book as the Imperial Bioroid.

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Hi, I'm one of the art backers.🖐️

The Imperial Bioroid will also appear in my art commission (though probably not very prominently due to it being a battle scene rather than a portrait). 

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:45 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

They are very strict on the stuff that already exists

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Just as long as they don't get in the way of my commission, but I'm given to understand that that is unlikely as there is nothing contentious in it.

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:48 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

We are assuming the its camouflage ability simply allows it to change colour XD

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That's cool. Will there be art of both the blue and purple versions? Back in the day younger me selfsplained it as the purple versions being the Elite Guard for the Robotech Elders. Based on the old filecard.

  On 5/17/2022 at 1:54 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

They rule over it as the highest authority.

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What?? What have you done with the Robotech Elders?

Shaizan, Bokaz and Dag were subordinate to Nimul, Hepsis and Fallagar.

  On 5/17/2022 at 3:21 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

If you don't understand it. i'd be happy to run a game for you. to show you how everything works. sounds like you need it.

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 Seto Kaiba is NOT a Robotech fan. 

  On 5/17/2022 at 2:02 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

I envisioned the Stealth Bioroid always using it cloaking system to reach the edges of a battlefield where it would then snipe targets. its stealth was always meant to be limited in its use because of how much Protoculture it would drain in my mind. 

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Why would something so simple drain Protoculture at a high rate? Protoculture, as I understand it, is meant to be high yield and super efficient. Is it for game balance reasons, like in the Predator Concrete Jungle PS 2 game?

  On 5/17/2022 at 2:02 PM, JAAD_SMG said:

Though, i never thought of it as expendable. Its still a Bioroid. with all the perks that entails. 

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Not meant to be disparaging I assure you. Sacrificing a unit to take out a high value enemy asset behind enemy lines is a viable tactic. (Who has not sacrificed a few Tau Stealth Suits to take out a pesky Gue'la Baneblade or Land Raider in Dawn of War?)

Perhaps the lore for it should focus more on the sniping aspect. I think those ridiculous claws give the wrong impression.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Podtastic

[Harukajunko]

  On 5/18/2022 at 3:12 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Those... "eccentricities"... are from 1st Edition, the original Palladium Books Robotech RPG from the 80's that was (in HG's words) made when "nobody was minding the store" at HG.  Those oddities, and the fair amount of copyright infringement in the pre-2001 comics, are why HG publicly disowned all pre-reboot licensee-made materials and insisted on the frankly draconian editorial and legal reviews of PB's manuscripts when PB reacquired the license.

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I See! The more you learn every day! Sadly from what I understand of quick google searching there was only the Robotech Shadow chronicles in 2nd ed right? followed by sadly the miss handling of the RPG tactics which lead to lots of problems... I know people who never got their stuff from it.

 

  On 5/18/2022 at 8:03 AM, Podtastic said:

Hi, I'm one of the art backers.🖐️

The Imperial Bioroid will also appear in my art commission (though probably not very prominently due to it being a battle scene rather than a portrait). 

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Noice! I'm getting art of one of the bioroids from my stuff too!

  On 5/18/2022 at 8:03 AM, Podtastic said:

Shaizan, Bokaz and Dag were subordinate to Nimul, Hepsis and Fallagar.

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ok this one I have to ask, Which are which? do we have pictures of them? I ask since me as a person, don't know any of their names.

 

  On 5/18/2022 at 8:03 AM, Podtastic said:

Why would something so simple drain Protoculture at a high rate? Protoculture, as I understand it, is meant to be high yield and super efficient. Is it for game balance reasons, like in the Predator Concrete Jungle PS 2 game?

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It's more to explain why they don't have these things all over the place always cloaked. along with the references of the robotech masters having low levels of protoculture so while it's a high power fuel, it's using extra ontop of operating every system of the bioroid.

 

  On 5/18/2022 at 8:03 AM, Podtastic said:

I think those ridiculous claws give the wrong impression.

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This one is personal opinion but I love the fact of it with the claws since it really hits the whole predator vibe, I imagine it being stealthed onto to jump on a spartas, Battloid or something else and stab right into the cockpit before jumping away into stealth again. But this is only how I feel on it, I don't know what the original designer thought the claws were for but it makes it cool in my giant robot kid brain cause Claws on mecha are radical.

  On 5/18/2022 at 5:50 AM, CoryHolmes said:

Well, yes, but look at how that built more on the world of the post-Invid Invasi... nope.  Nope, not even me, in my PB-infused childhood fun, can defend that book.  It's bad bad.

 

Except for the cover art.  That Lancer Rocked!

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That pun was terrible but even as a fan of macross 7 it just.. it doesn't fit what we have...

Edited May 18, 2022 by Harukajunko
Addressing comment I meant to address.

[Podtastic]

  On 5/18/2022 at 8:24 AM, Harukajunko said:

ok this one I have to ask, Which are which? do we have pictures of them? I ask since me as a person, don't know any of their names.

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Robotech Elders Left to Right: Nimuul, Hepsis and Fallagar. The Masters give deference to them in the first or second episode.

Robotech Masters:

Shaizan

Bowkaz

Dag

I always thought the names came from the novels. Surprisingly they are also on Comic Vine.

[Harukajunko]

  On 5/18/2022 at 8:42 AM, Podtastic said:

Robotech Elders Left to Right: Nimuul, Hepsis and Fallagar. The Masters give deference to them in the first or second episode.

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Ahhh I coulda sworn the elders were like the Original clones and gave all control over to the other three since they looked so similar but I can't remember been a while since I watched the masters saga