No Love for Southern Cross?

[DarrinG]

I have the original kits for Dana, Marie and Nova in excellent condition, plus the This is Animation book and Music Cds with mini-poster --- someone make me an offer I can't refuse!

[DarrinG]

I stumbled upon this and had to post it for obvious reasons . . .

[derex3592]

nice!

[neptunesurvey]

Some love for Southern Cross is coming this year.

[Sandman]

Southern Cross is BACK!!!!!

Sorry had to do it.

[Twoducks]

Hover Tanks, Hover Tanks everywhere!!!!!

[derex3592]

Yeeeeeeees!!!!!

[1st Border Red Devil]

Seto Kaiba:

The question then becomes... is not utilizing the least-loved of Robotech's component series indicative of a lack of vision, or is it simple pragmatism motivated by the consistently negative reactions they've gotten from fans when the company has asked them about various aspects of the Masters Saga?

The thing is you have to make your own marketshare. That means you at least attempt to utilize your rights in a way that will generate income. Harmony Gold under Tommy Yune has done the polar opposite and has reinforced this with idiotic statements and the continued ignoring of that 3rd of the franchise. Robotech: Academy's mechanical and character designs bear this out since NONE of those released (with the sole exception of the bizarre redesign of Rolf Emerson's uniform despite him wearing the ASC uniform in The Sentinels video) are even RELATED to Southern Cross. This was especially evident with the godawful Takeru and Yukikaze-cloned VF-X-7. The same goes for the new animation in Robotech: Love, Live, Alive where the only identifiable items were the three mounds at The Ruins of the SDF-01 and the 15th ATAC's battalion laager. The protagonist of The Masters War, Dana Sterling, isn't even shown wearing her ATAC Officer's Arming doublet, no Veritech Hovertanks are in evidence and the ships that evacuate the Army of the Southern Cross are all Genesis Climber MOSPEADA designs. The last time that mecha and characters from SDC: Southern Cross appeared in any way that was positive was in 1997 with Fred Perry's Rolling Thunder comic. The only merchandise offered by the current "Creative Team" is an uninspiring wallscroll and a t-shirt and jersey (both of which utilize the WRONG symbol of the franchise in question). This is not in any way, shape or form the actions of a Creative Director that actually cares about the franchise.

As it stands now, people are starting to make their OWN versions of merchandise that appeared in SDC: Southern Cross (and its associated properties). Now, at the moment that is merely miniatures either compatible with the Palladium Robotech RPG Tactics game or the like. However, as 3D Printing takes off that could very well include other items. As technology improves with 3D Printing, newer items will come out that could very well break the barrier on the high quality models such as those offered by Wonderfest and the like. That is revenue that Harmony Gold is losing because of the myopic view of the current "Creative Director". It also is a serious Public Relations problem as it shows the fans that the owner of the IP doesn't care (but yet would likely go after anyone who offered up such merchandise on their own).

This also gets into the fact that the loss of revenue is only in what is 'seen' and does not even begin to get into the element of what is 'unseen'. I mean this in the economic sense: ie - what might have been had the franchise been explored more fully. We have no way of knowing now what could have been done and that just includes if we 'port over' elements that are common to mecha anime like variant color schemes, additional armaments/armor and the like.

Edited August 10, 2014 by 1st Border Red Devil

[Agent ONE]

SC only gets crapped on because of Robotech.. On its own its a great show, its just, when we were kids, we were outraged when we saw Hovertakns basically replacing the Valkyrie. I mean WTF.

Years later and my opinion has not changed.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Agent ONE

[1st Border Red Devil]

Years later and my opinion has not changed.

:snicker:

I should be mad, but that pic is still funny as hell.....kudos!

[Agent ONE]

:snicker:

I should be mad, but that pic is still funny as hell.....kudos!

If you start a Southern Cross fan forum, I promise I will be a regular poster there.

I probably will talk about things other than Southern Cross though.

[Seto Kaiba]

The thing is you have to make your own marketshare. That means you at least attempt to utilize your rights in a way that will generate income. Harmony Gold under Tommy Yune has done the polar opposite and has reinforced this with idiotic statements and the continued ignoring of that 3rd of the franchise.

While that is broadly true in the sense of needing to establish and maintain a market for your product, there's little point in trying to establish a market for a product that all your customers have already sampled and the majority have long since decided they find offensively awful.

To you, as one of the few avid and vocal fans of Southern Cross, it looks like negligence on the part of Harmony Gold to ignore the Masters Saga. To the people who are making their decisions based on the business case, it's a simple matter of deciding not to try to draw water from a well that you've known is dry for fifteen years. In other words, simple pragmatism. You don't try to appeal to their audience with something they hate, and the vocal majority have made it pretty clear there's precious little love out there for the Masters Saga. As far as vocal Southern Cross fans in the Robotech fandom go, they're relatively few and you're pretty much the only one of them I've encountered who isn't an ass and can actually make a reasonably articulate argument.

Robotech: Academy's mechanical and character designs bear this out since NONE of those released (with the sole exception of the bizarre redesign of Rolf Emerson's uniform despite him wearing the ASC uniform in The Sentinels video) are even RELATED to Southern Cross. This was especially evident with the godawful Takeru and Yukikaze-cloned VF-X-7.

Well, duh. As far as the available evidence indicates, most Robotech fans didn't like the Masters Saga... to such an extent that, when they ran a poll about opinions of the Southern Cross Army, most voted that its negative reputation with the fans was richly deserved.

If the original show was an abysmal failure in Japan, and the English adaptation has seen the audience frequently declare "these people suck", why would they throw in any more than the absolute bare minimum number of references to it they could get away with? If your product tests poorly with your target audience, you don't say "Let's ramp up the stuff those guys hate" because, unless you're insane,your goal is to produce something they'll actually enjoy.

As with Shadow Chronicles, Harmony Gold is clearly trying to court success by copying popular and successful shows in or adjacent to their target genre. For the Shadow Chronicles, the shows being aped were Macross (specifically DYRL?) and the reimagined Battlestar Galactica. For the failed Robotech Academy concept, it was Macross Frontier and Lost in Space with shades of Yukikaze and Gundam SEED.

The same goes for the new animation in Robotech: Love, Live, Alive where the only identifiable items were the three mounds at The Ruins of the SDF-01 and the 15th ATAC's battalion laager. The protagonist of The Masters War, Dana Sterling, isn't even shown wearing her ATAC Officer's Arming doublet, no Veritech Hovertanks are in evidence and the ships that evacuate the Army of the Southern Cross are all Genesis Climber MOSPEADA designs.

Again, apart from a few folks like you who are really passionate about Southern Cross, pretty much nobody cared. Whether they're motivated by copyright issues around the Southern Cross designs or simple pragmatism in not trying to use some of the most disliked parts of Robotech, there's little incentive for people to care because most don't have a hell of a lot of use for the series or its characters. Personally, I only watched the bastardization of Love Live Alive when someone put it on YouTube (why pay for that garbage and encourage them further, right?) but I didn't really have any problem with them showing not!Jeanne in a MOSPEADA riding suit instead. I chalked the absence of Southern Cross designs up to practical reasons... there were never many of the mecha, they'd been massacred, and the fleet was in tatters.

The last time that mecha and characters from SDC: Southern Cross appeared in any way that was positive was in 1997 with Fred Perry's Rolling Thunder comic. The only merchandise offered by the current "Creative Team" is an uninspiring wallscroll and a t-shirt and jersey (both of which utilize the WRONG symbol of the franchise in question). This is not in any way, shape or form the actions of a Creative Director that actually cares about the franchise.

... one of the titles from the last gasp of Robotech comics before the reboot? That isn't a ringing endorsement either, my friend.

Current and former Harmony Gold staffers have made it pretty clear that they just don't feel there's enough of a market for Masters Saga merchandise to justify the costs involved in developing any. With the general fan perception of the Southern Cross Army hovering between apathy and antipathy, they're not going to go out of their way just to throw you a bone.

I'm going to be a little blunt here, but please accept my assurances that I'm not trying to be condescending or snide when I say this.

When you say that these aren't the actions of a creative director who actually cares about the franchise, you mean they aren't the actions of a creative director who has reason to care about the parts of the show you care about. They've gone on the record, and even former staff have torn into you over this, to say that there's simply no significant demand for material for the part of the franchise you care about. These are the actions of a pragmatic business, not wanting to take a risk because they did their cost studies and decided the potential return on investment made it a losing proposition. It shows that they care enough to not waste money that could go into the products people might want by not developing products that they know people don't want... though admittedly that's not caring a lot.

We know that the one part of Robotech that brings in the money is Macross, and that's where they've always focused their attention from day one.

As it stands now, people are starting to make their OWN versions of merchandise that appeared in SDC: Southern Cross (and its associated properties). Now, at the moment that is merely miniatures either compatible with the Palladium Robotech RPG Tactics game or the like. However, as 3D Printing takes off that could very well include other items.

Yeah, a few people are... but, considering it's Harmony Gold, that's a few people who are likely to find themselves on the receiving end of a legal threat once the company figures out what they're doing. Most just don't care. What's worse? A tiny amount of lost profit from a few people in the fandom who like a part of the series most of their customers loathe, or a whole lot of lost investment developing products that people won't buy?

The latter, obviously.

While I can understand and sympathize with your position a bit (Macross II fan, y'know), I see their general refusal to revisit the characters, designs, and themes of the Masters Saga (or Southern Cross) for the simple pragmatism it is. You don't make money by peddling products people don't want (unless you have wicked awesome insurance and an "accidental" warehouse fire.)

[terry the lone wolf]

When I read (I think it was the Invid War comic) and it showed how Dana & company stole Johnathan Wolfe's ship to flee Earth and they were still wearing their SDC Southern Cross uniforms was a little weird to me. It made more sense to me they would wear a NG/Mospeada style uniforms just because of the time frame..

[anime52k8]

If it makes you feel any better, I would totally buy a high quality transforming toy of the space helicopter from Southern Cross. Same goes for the VF-2SS from Macross II.

BTW, has there ever been an explanation why the hover tank has the pilot sitting on an exposed seat stuck on top of the vehicle in two out of three modes?

Edited August 11, 2014 by anime52k8

[CrazyDude]

I like Southern Cross but kits are hard do come by. Got all of the figure and power suit ones.

[Agent ONE]

... transforming toy of the space helicopter from Southern Cross....

... Right. Can't wait for those real space helicopters to be developed.

[jenius]

BTW, has there ever been an explanation why the hover tank has the pilot sitting on an exposed seat stuck on top of the vehicle in two out of three modes?

Has there been an explanation? Sure, there have been LOTS of them. I remember them back from my days on RT.com. Most of them were reaches at best. Fortunately, when the Hovertanks were retrofitted for space use as some point in the series this was rectified.

I'd like to see a modern interpretation of the space helicopter that removed the helicopter aspect entirely and instead made it a three mode transformation with space fighter, atmospheric fighter, and 'battroid' modes. Basically, make it into something like an X-wing with a battroid mode.

[Seto Kaiba]

BTW, has there ever been an explanation why the hover tank has the pilot sitting on an exposed seat stuck on top of the vehicle in two out of three modes?

From any of the very few official publications for the original Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross?

None that I've seen, no. Part of me suspects that the reason the Spartas has the driver exposed is because they put so damned much effort into the Arming Doublets that, when they ended up having to make a fairly generic robot show, they didn't want all the work they'd put in to go to waste by having the pilot be hidden inside the mecha all the time.

The many and varied Robotech works, almost all of which have been disowned by Harmony Gold, offered a plethora of excuses for the design leaving the pilot exposed. The official stats they have for it acknowledge only that having the pilot position totally open to the elements was a really bad idea and made operating the tank unpleasant in bad weather. Other than that, the only explanation Robotech currently offers that has any sanction from Harmony Gold is that the Spartas was originally developed to function as a light reconnaissance vehicle, claiming the open cockpit offered the pilot an unobstructed field of view (apparently forgetting that the Mk.I Eyeball comes in a distant second to high-grade camera systems with infrared and night vision, making having a sealed cockpit and monitors far more advantageous than trying to view everything with the naked eye).

[Beltane70]

I rewatched Southern Cross about two months ago and never once did I see the Auroran use the helicopter mode.

[Tober]

It's not a helicopter tho, is it? Those 'rotors' are a radar array or something. There is also a variant that doesn't have them.

[Seto Kaiba]

It's not a helicopter tho, is it? Those 'rotors' are a radar array or something. There is also a variant that doesn't have them.

Yes, it actually is a helicopter... they just never seemed to find a way to work that part into the animation.

1st Border Red Devil asked me to translate a piece of Southern Cross art a while back, a leaflet with information on the TASC's Auroran, ATAC's Spartas, and a tiny bit on the Bioroid... and one of the captions there specifically refers to the Auroran's Cross-Fighter mode as a Helicopter mode.

Specifically, it was the following caption between the Cross-Fighter and Crusader modes, which reads:

クロス・ファイター形態は180度転回可能なヘリモード.

"Cross Fighter form is a helicopter mode that can turn 180 degrees."

(That it has a helicopter mode should come as no surprise, really... the Auroran's basically a transformable Sikorsky X-Wing.)

EDIT: That's not a "variant" without blades, that's Crusader mode, which is the Auroran's jet fighter form... the blades are simply folded back along the fuselage near the tail.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Seto Kaiba

[Hoptimus]

Yes I love Southern Cross too but it is not a fan favorite with either side. The RT fans mostly just wanted more of Rick/Lisa/Minmei and the Japanese SC Fans were just not there.

That being said I still find it funny that as the part of the show that explains the most about the plot of RT is the most ignored...

[coronadlux]

I'm not a Real BIG fan of SC. But I did like the helicopter and hover cycle growing up. I am actually rematch ingredients the masters saga this week. Somehow I remember parts from it from way back in the 80's.

[Tober]

Yes, it actually is a helicopter... they just never seemed to find a way to work that part into the animation.

1st Border Red Devil asked me to translate a piece of Southern Cross art a while back, a leaflet with information on the TASC's Auroran, ATAC's Spartas, and a tiny bit on the Bioroid... and one of the captions there specifically refers to the Auroran's Cross-Fighter mode as a Helicopter mode.

Specifically, it was the following caption between the Cross-Fighter and Crusader modes, which reads:

クロス・ファイター形態は180度転回可能なヘリモード.

"Cross Fighter form is a helicopter mode that can turn 180 degrees."

(That it has a helicopter mode should come as no surprise, really... the Auroran's basically a transformable Sikorsky X-Wing.)

EDIT: That's not a "variant" without blades, that's Crusader mode, which is the Auroran's jet fighter form... the blades are simply folded back along the fuselage near the tail.

Yeah, I know it can rotate around the pivot, but I didn't think it could actually perform as a helicopter... It has no rear rotor...

Thanks for the info.

Might have to dig out SC again.

[anime52k8]

Yeah, I know it can rotate around the pivot, but I didn't think it could actually perform as a helicopter... It has no rear rotor...

Thanks for the info.

Might have to dig out SC again.

rear rotors are over rated anyways

[JetJockey]

You guys talking about that hovertank made me want one again even though the first toy wasn't that good. I now remember I didn't like it because it didn't have the first hovertank mode, which I thought was the best.

I checked for news on that Robotech Academy Kickstarter today and was surprised to see it closed here on the forum and on the actual Kickstarter. I thought a few weeks in that it would be successful. Perhaps now Harmony Gold, along with Toynami can put effort into Robotech related items that old Robotech fans would actually want. My list:

1. Mospeada Rook Cyclone. Almost unforgivable that Harmony Gold or Toynami still isn't trying to release this.

2. Hovertank. This should be easier now to create a modern version that transforms into all three modes. Along with a fairly detailed Dana action figure.

3. Hoverbike. This one should be easy too.

4. Robotech on Blu-ray.

Edited August 14, 2014 by JetJockey

[Seto Kaiba]

Perhaps now Harmony Gold, along with Toynami can put effort into Robotech related items that old Robotech fans would actually want. My list:

1. Mospeada Rook Cyclone. Almost unforgivable that Harmony Gold or Toynami still isn't trying to release this.

Might have something to do with sales of the New Generation MPCs being so appalling that they cut the limited runs down to just 5,000 before canning the whole line. They weren't selling, and with MOSPEADA fans able to get their hands on stuff via a direct sale from Japan, it's no surprise why.

2. Hovertank. This should be easier now to create a modern version that transforms into all three modes. Along with a fairly detailed Dana action figure.

3. Hoverbike. This one should be easy too.

Thus far, I don't believe Harmony Gold and Toynami have reversed their stance that there isn't a viable business case for making any Southern Cross toys... sales haven't exactly been fabulous for their New Generation/MOSPEADA stuff, what with them not yet sold out of those dreadful New Gen MPCs even after cutting the production runs by 66%, so they don't seem at all inclined to try their hand at Robotech's least popular saga.

Southern Cross fans are, I'm afraid, probably out of luck there.

4. Robotech on Blu-ray.

That's looking like a "when hell freezes over" option...

[coronadlux]

I would like to see a hover bike made. But I agree, not a real big market for much masters stuff. Even if they tried to start from scratch, use 3D printing to get off the ground, they will not see a huge return on their investment.

[Sandman]

I'd buy a hover tank and the space copter. I wouldn't get the Logan (the yellow gerwalk thing). Is that it for mech? I can't remember.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'd buy a hover tank and the space copter. I wouldn't get the Logan (the yellow gerwalk thing). Is that it for mech? I can't remember.

Except for the Zor bioroids and the various specialist Southern Cross Army mecha (all but one of which don't even have NAMES), pretty much.

[coronadlux]

Really? I thought there be more.

The chopper, tank and Logan. That's it?

[Seto Kaiba]

Really? I thought there be more.

The chopper, tank and Logan. That's it?

Yep. The Auroran (chopper), Spartas (tank), and Logan (ugly lozenge-shaped VF) are the three main mecha for the series... the only other Glorie forces robot to get a name was the police robot that Jeanne knocks over with her hoverbike early on (the Garm, possibly named for the dog who guards Hel's gate in Norse mythology). The other, minor, background robots that show up in the OP and as filler here and there don't transform and don't even have names...

IIRC, only one of the many background filler non-variable fighters has a name, though there's some contention among those who care enough over whether it's supposed to be the "Sylphid" or "Shrewfield".

[JetJockey]

Might have something to do with sales of the New Generation MPCs being so appalling that they cut the limited runs down to just 5,000 before canning the whole line. They weren't selling, and with MOSPEADA fans able to get their hands on stuff via a direct sale from Japan, it's no surprise why.

Thus far, I don't believe Harmony Gold and Toynami have reversed their stance that there isn't a viable business case for making any Southern Cross toys... sales haven't exactly been fabulous for their New Generation/MOSPEADA stuff, what with them not yet sold out of those dreadful New Gen MPCs even after cutting the production runs by 66%, so they don't seem at all inclined to try their hand at Robotech's least popular saga.

Southern Cross fans are, I'm afraid, probably out of luck there.

That's looking like a "when hell freezes over" option...

Here are my thoughts on those toys that Harmony Gold / Toynami is trying to sell. From what I've seen they aren't worth buying. I had the original Alpha fighter. Sold it somehow for decent money. It had what many call the beached whale problem with the landing gear. From what I saw with the "new" versions that Toynami had the problem was the same. And by "new" I mean that I think Toynami was just repackaging something that many could get from Japan just with different artwork. Plus from what I've read those fighters had new problems too. On Robotech.com all I see now are different colored Betas available and a Shadow fighter. I don't know many people who are crazy about those Shadow fighters that only showed up in the last episode or two. And different colored Beta fighters? That was my least favorite of the New Generation / Mospeada mech designs.

To me a company should take chances. Even if they don't think sales will be there. Release a more limited run. But make a new toy. Re-releasing stuff from Japan in different packaging when probably all the fans that grew up with it have access to the Internet to get said toy months ahead, is just lazy. But that speaks to what Harmony Gold is I guess. I'm sure a few 1000 or so people would get a Dana hovercycle and hovertank set priced around $300 or so if it's quality. I'm sure if Harmony Gold / Toynami purchased, finished, and released that Rook Ride Armor people would have purchased her too. How can a company that even likes their product, see something like that Beagle Ride Armor not get produced and sit and do nothing after they have tried to release the previous versions with few changes for American customers? It's just crazy and lazy to me. But that might be their company mentality. Get a product from someone else, waste time and money changing and designing a box, touch up a few things, and call it your own.

And Robotech on Blu-ray. I don't care what they say. They've released Robotech so many times with tons of different marketing names on DVD that I can't remember. Even now on Robotech.com's front page they are selling a "Robotech Classic Collection Vol. 1" which has the already released Japanese Macross episodes and the broadcast Robotech episodes. Yet I think they sold both uncut Robotech episodes and normal episodes before. You know they will eventually milk Robotech on Blu-ray. It's just a matter of when.

Edited August 14, 2014 by JetJockey

[coronadlux]

That's what people are waiting for, but somethign about the originals being property of someone other than HG ot Tatsunoko is holding it back.

[Phyrox]

......I'm sure a few 1000 or so people would get a Dana hovercycle and hovertank set priced around $300 or so if it's quality...

There are several things in your post which are not exactly true (HG/Toynami did design and release their Alpha independent of any Japanese releases, for example), but this one here ^ is laughable. The number of people who'd buy a $100 hovetank toy is probably in the triple digits, and not the upper end of that range either. Throwing in a hover cycle is going to entice no one.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Phyrox