VF-4 redesigned for 2059...

[Talos]

I can help with cleaning up and coloring the fighter-mode profile when you're done with the design if you'd like. I've already done a lot of work with VF-4s and would enjoy working on this one.

There are a few minor things I'd change in the design (which is awesome, by the way). Mostly, I'd lower the nose a bit so that the tip is even-with or below the side thrusters in front of the cockpit and I'd make the cannons in the upper engine nacelles a bit more substantial like they are in the original design.

[hobbes221]

I can help with cleaning up and coloring the fighter-mode profile when you're done with the design if you'd like. I've already done a lot of work with VF-4s and would enjoy working on this one.

Love your work man, if you could do this bird in that WWII blue paint scheme that you posted in the other thread on a VF-4 that would be just too fracking sweet! (with anime52k8's okay of course!)

[ruskiiVFaussie]

That looks awesome man.

[anime52k8]

Love your work man, if you could do this bird in that WWII blue paint scheme that you posted in the other thread on a VF-4 that would be just too fracking sweet! (with anime52k8's okay of course!)

that would be so awesome. it was actually this scheme here that got me thinking about the VF-4 again.

it would be extremely cool if you could help me out with the digital coloring Talos, your work is absolutely amazing.

Have you given any thought to adding wing tip mounted missile rails? might work with the design.

I actually haven't until you brought it up, now I'm really thinking about it.

wingtip missile rails could sole some of the problems I'm having with the leg mounted missile layout, but right now I'm favoring a wing shape that can't really accommodate wingtip rails.

On the wings, how about having one pylon on the outer wing that would be able to rotate 90 degrees that way in battroid mode the wing stores would be inline with the wing and would not have to be punched off? You could still have two hardpoints per outer wing just have the outer one be jettisoned before transforming.

-edit- If it was me I might lose the inner wing engines as with part of the legs already there, there does not seem to be much room, but thats me. Also what about having a center line pylon on the belly, that would let you keep some stores even in gerwalk mode? With little room for FAST packs I could see this as the first VF to have drop tanks for space ops to add some propellent.

with the rotating wing pilon idea, It sounds interesting but I think that with the wings will be able to retain there stores in battroid mode by just decreasing the amount the wings droop by a little bit. (sort of like how the VF-1 and VF-0 kept there wings folded out when when they had weapons on them) having the wings stick out isn't to big a deal since any weapons on the wings are going to be the first things used up anyways. and with the mixed missile loads, I kind of already have that with the semi-recessed missiles and the micro missiles. the recessed missiles are the AIM-120 equivalents, where as the Micro-missiles are the AIM-9 equivalents.

I still want to keep the inner wing engines (I just think they're cool visually, and if SK can fit them there on the old valk, I can fit them on a newer bigger valk)

I have been tossing around the idea of center line and inner wing pylons, originally I was going to put the gunpod on a center line belly pilon, but I decided I wanted a location that can be used in all three modes, so it ended up on the leg.

I've actually been considering as many as three hard points for propellant. (one on each inner wing, and one centerline) the would have to be punched before the valk could transform though, so they would be strictly for fuel on long range ops in space.

I think the one problem I really have, is that every time someone recommends/suggests something, I eminently start running with it. within about 5 minutes of reading your suggestion about the recon set up, I already had a full design in my head. (it would be a new upper nacelle assembly, where the vertical fins are replaced by struts for the radome, and the forearms are redesigned with sensors in place of missiles and smaller beam guns)

it's kind of nice though since I keep having new ideas to work on. so feel free to keep suggesting things.

Edited December 27, 2008 by anime52k8

[anime52k8]

you know what, I was going to wait till tomorrow to post this, but I might as well post it now since I'm looking for some ideas.

the VF-400 .v3

I'm thinking that this is the final form for the primary model (I've still got several alternate versions in the works, but this is the main version).

it's omitted for detail, but I'm going to be using the wing A from earlier. and I'm leaving the possibility for drop tanks open. I made the beam guns more prominent (I think I'm going to up the boar diameter from 35mm to 58~60mm), but kept the nose as is (any time I try to change it, it starts looking too duck bill like for me.)

the main thing I'm still debating is with the missiles. right now I've got them looking like the standard missiles used on the VF-171 (and the VF-0 oddly enough) but with the fins designed to fold in. I'm not sure how I like the look, but can't seem to come up with anything better.

also in terms of missile numbers, I think I'm going to drop it down to 10 long range missiles with a maximum of 12. there will be the 2 under the fuselage, 2 above each nacelle, one on the outside in front of the ventral fins on each nacelle, and one on the inside of the nacelle opposite that last two.

the optional 2 are the one's right under the wing roots that get replaced by the gunpod.

I'd really love some suggestions/ideas in as to what the semi-recessed missiles should look like.

[hobbes221]

As to the semi-recessed missiles I'm always liked this design, might work. And I'm loving the latest work (still like the larger fins,both upper and lower but these are good too, so no big)

And if you want any ideas for specs (not trying to take over your design or anything ) I'm a real military aircraft nut so if you want to PM me with anything like avionics or the like I would be happy to help.

-edit- looking at it again along with the upgrade to the arm guns, you maybe could also run 25mm gun packs like from the Harrier on the two body missile hardpoints if you felt the need for more guns. I believe a fighter pilot once said 'No kill kills, like a gun kill kills!'

Edited December 27, 2008 by hobbes221

[hobbes221]

Thinking about the gun pod replacing the semi-recessed missiles if you could do it on the belly you could do it for the rest as well. Remember those old WWII bomber like the A-26 and B-25, the A-26 had in some configurations something like 16 forward firing .50 cals. Those 25mm on the VF-25 don't look that much bigger... not saying it needs to be done but sometimes I get an idea and I have to let it out or else

[anime52k8]

all right, another revision.

same drawing as last time, but I went and redrew the missiles. I think I like this right here.

so what do you all think?

[Jacs]

I likey. Though recently I was just thinking about what it would look like changing out the singel-barreled beam guns to triple-barreled models like the Q-Rea's. Would require some down-sizing of the barrel assembly, but it's just an idea I wanted to throw out there.

Otherwise it's coming out quite nicely. ^^

[SchizophrenicMC]

Jacs actually makes a good point... The beam guns on the Q-Rea are small enough in size that, given a smaller bore, it'd increase firepower and look awesome...

[hobbes221]

I think it looks great, can't wait for the rest of the pics. Oh and I'd stay with the single barrel if it was me and maybe add a flash suppressor like this.

Edited December 28, 2008 by hobbes221

[anime52k8]

ugh... I've been trying to do a line art for this last drawing in illustrator... it's going awful...

this is what I've got after like 6 hours.

how do you do it talos?

[Talos]

ugh... I've been trying to do a line art for this last drawing in illustrator... it's going awful...

this is what I've got after like 6 hours.

how do you do it talos?

It's looking good so far!

I actually use a really low-tech program to do my lineart, I draw them in Microsoft Publisher.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Looks good so far. This is why I draw all my MOC valks on paper. Can't do it on the PC. Unfortunately, I've lost all my drawings...

[Kelsain]

It's looking good so far!

I actually use a really low-tech program to do my lineart, I draw them in Microsoft Publisher.

For serious? I HATE Publisher, but for the same reasons, I'm even more impressed with your color schemes.

[Talos]

For serious? I HATE Publisher, but for the same reasons, I'm even more impressed with your color schemes.

Yep, seriously. I only do the lineart in it though, all the markings, coloring, shading, and high-lighting are done in GIMP.

(All those white dots are the endpoints of separate lines.

[Hikuro]

Hooooooo interesting, I don't get it, but interesting.

[sketchley]

Hikuro, they're using vector graphics. Basically it means that all the lines are a math formula.

It does take a lot more time and effort than raster graphics, but unlike raster graphics, the final image is scalelable. In other words, weither you print it on a pinhead, or on the top of a stadium, the curving lines will be smooth. (Raster graphics, on the other hand, become jaggies when enlarged.)

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics

Edited December 29, 2008 by sketchley

[anime52k8]

Yep, seriously. I only do the lineart in it though, all the markings, coloring, shading, and high-lighting are done in GIMP.

(All those white dots are the endpoints of separate lines.

wow... that's just amazing... and scary. you really do some awesome work.

[Kelsain]

Yep, seriously. I only do the lineart in it though, all the markings, coloring, shading, and high-lighting are done in GIMP.

(All those white dots are the endpoints of separate lines.

Haha, you crazy! Do you have anything against Illustrator or Corel? In all seriousness, though, I'm amazed. I had no idea that Publisher could even do things like that.

Oh, and 52k8, I really like your VF-4 update!

Edited December 29, 2008 by Kelsain

[Mr March]

And I wanna know how Mr March does the HQ line art and coloring for his site! his stuff looks so perfect, I don't know how he does it.

(March, if you're reading this, Please tell me!!)

My coloring for the Macross Mecha Manual is two part, but I use Photoshop CS for all the image work.

1) I scan the original black and white line art in 1,200 DPI grayscale. After rotation adjustments, I perform a linear burn and then a linear dodge to make sure the line art is a solid black that retains the necessary detail and the anti-aliasing to ensure the lines appear smooth.

2) With the line art finalized, I build a PSD file in RGB format. Working in layers, I use the multiply feature and add color layers as necessary. You can quick color the art using the wand to select an area to fill and then using the fill tool for color. I build the cartoon shading by creating another darker color layer on top of the existing color layer. Some colorists prefer to build shading using the brush so they achieve shadows with that "3D gradient" look, but I prefer the "toon shade" look that we've all come to know and love in nearly all the Macross anime shows, even Frontier to a degree. I made an exception for some (the Hollywood Amusement Ship is brush shaded rather than cartoon shaded. I felt it worked better for such a bland, spherical design)

That's about it. There's not much to it. The only downside of building pictures this way is they can be quite large. Some are as much a 7-8 megs in size.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Mr March

[chillyche]

My coloring for the Macross Mecha Manual is two part, but I use Photoshop CS for all the image work.

1) I scan the original black and white line art in 1,200 DPI grayscale. After rotation adjustments, I perform a linear burn and then a linear dodge to make sure the line art is a solid black that retains the necessary detail and the anti-aliasing to ensure the lines appear smooth.

2) With the line art finalized, I build a PSD file in RGB format. Working in layers, I use the multiply feature and add color layers as necessary. You can quick color the art using the wand to select an area to fill and then using the fill tool for color. I build the cartoon shading by creating another darker color layer on top of the existing color layer. Some colorists prefer to build shading using the brush so they achieve shadows with that "3D gradient" look, but I prefer the "toon shade" look that we've all come to know and love in nearly all the Macross anime shows, even Frontier to a degree. I made an exception for some (the Hollywood Amusement Ship is brush shaded rather than cartoon shaded. I felt it worked better for such a bland, spherical design)

That's about it. There's not much to it. The only downside of building pictures this way is they can be quite large. Some are as much a 7-8 megs in size.

Have you ever heard of "flatting"? I used to do all my old coloring jobs like you've descibed, with layers, but then I discovered the technique of using flats. The idea is that you basically create an extra channel in your RGB/A channels with "flats" -- that is, blocked in versions of where the different colors will be. And... er... I suck at explaining this... lemme find a link...

http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/html/channels2.html

Not the best tutorial on the topic, but should give you the basic idea. The end results will be indistinguishable, but your filesizes will be drastically reduced, as rather than multiple layers, you only need one layer and one extra channel.

[Mr March]

Interesting. Never heard of it, but I'll have to give it a try and see what happens. I'm not a Photoshop expert, so I don't know all the many different ways to achieve the same result. I just went with the multiply feature because it's the least number of mouse clicks to make it work

[chillyche]

Interesting. Never heard of it, but I'll have to give it a try and see what happens. I'm not a Photoshop expert, so I don't know all the many different ways to achieve the same result. I just went with the multiply feature because it's the least number of mouse clicks to make it work

Yeah, using layers is also really easy to understand, especially if you leave the work and come back a long time later. two years ago, though, around this time, I did an 8 page comic for a friend, and page 1 and 2 I did using layers, and pages 3 - 8 I did with flats, and they took me between half and a quarter of the time, a lot of the time saved being just from the computer lagging less. Blew my mind.

It's also a technique that works with any level of shading design, be it toon shading, Battlechasers shading, or photorealistic. I haven't really done much coloring since then, though.

[anime52k8]

Oh right, got the lineart in illustrator done and exported it to photoshop so now I can color it.

now I need to work on the battroid mode.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Dee-amn. Keep up the good work, and Shoji Kawamori's got a successor.

[Kurisama]

Very nice! So whens the gerwalk coming along?!?!

[anime52k8]

Very nice! So whens the gerwalk coming along?!?!

somewhere between when I finish the battroid mode and the Heavy attack VF-4; and when I get to work the VF-14 GERWALK...

[kensei]

I thought the VF-4 was pretty average, but you made it more respectable. Good work.

[anime52k8]

all right, the moment you've all (and by all I mean 3 of you) been waiting for: VF-400 battroid.

or a rough sketch there of. I'm just figuring out what this thing looks like so It's very rough:

and as you can see it still needs much work. first off I've learned never to question the logic of the HFH. the missiles I tried to use ended up looking like ass in battroid mode so I switched them back to the old style bullet shaped missiles.

and here's the lineart to reflect the change.

I kind of like the look of the old style missiles.

I'm also trying to decide if I should get rid of the lower inner leg missiles and and add a pair of beam guns (like the hip guns on the VF-25/27) in the shoulders where the circles are.

anyways hope you like and give me some feedback please.

next update will (hopefully) be an improved battroid mode, some detailed head designs, and some rough concepts for the heavy attack VF-4 if I have a chance to talk about that with chillyche.

[hobbes221]

Looks good, and you're right the missiles do look better now and they don't look like they are a part of the airframe as they did on the VF-4, so well done.

I wouldn't mind seeing a head more along the lines of the -25s, you know without that long cowl thing.

I don't think you need any beam guns in the shoulders but that's me.

I'm liking the wing design that you went with as well. The 'C' wing might have been a little too big.

The only thing that I think is missing on the fighter view is maybe a panel line or two on the nose and nacelle ventral fins.

Can't wait for the next update

[anime52k8]

at this point the head is probably the biggest question mark. I think I'm going to stick with the 25F style head for battroid, but when I do the detail drawings I'll be doing a full set of them (A, J, S, recon, trainer, etc. etc.)

personally I tend to like the heads on the J/mid-level valks more than I like the S style heads. and as for the long Cowl/Mech Habbit; it's kind of hard to avoid with this design. without it the back of the center fuselage in fighter mode looks stunted, and there really isn't a better place to put it besides on the back of the head.

[SchizophrenicMC]

at this point the head is probably the biggest question mark. I think I'm going to stick with the 25F style head for battroid, but when I do the detail drawings I'll be doing a full set of them (A, J, S, recon, trainer, etc. etc.)

personally I tend to like the heads on the J/mid-level valks more than I like the S style heads. and as for the long Cowl/Mech Habbit; it's kind of hard to avoid with this design. without it the back of the center fuselage in fighter mode looks stunted, and there really isn't a better place to put it besides on the back of the head.

Well, that cowl could remain affixed to the body, like on the VF-25... Or any VF that has the head on top... It doesn't have to do that. Though, I must say, I kinda like that. It just adds to the VF-4-ness...

[badboy00z]

I would love to see transformation pictures too.

[grapetang]

Nice work! It's good to see something different here.