VF-4 redesigned for 2059...

[anime52k8]

ok, please don't kill me for this but...

at some point a few days ago, I had a brilliantly stupid Idea. that Idea was something along the lines of "You know what would be awsome? a VF-4, combined with a VF-25" at that point I decided to start drawing up some sketches of something that looks more a less the same as a VF-4, but with lots of new details and reshaped parts so that it resembles a VF-25.

the result so far is something I'm actually rather pleased with so far. In my mind it looks like a light valk from the same time frame and in a similar performance category as the VF-25/27 while still retaining the key parts that make the VF-4 so interesting and appealing.

so without any further ado, here are the sketches so far.

this would be the clean pencil version of the profile I drew initially. the idea with this is that I'm going to take it into photo shop and color it with some prototype style paint schemes.

and this is the super super rough sketch of the battroid mode.

ok, so couple notes on the design. first, as you can see the valk retains the semi-recessed missiles, but I had to eliminate the rear inner missiles from the legs because of space issues (with the VF-25 feet there wasn't enough room)

the back part of the central fuselage is the same length and shape, but now breaks apart in different places; the part that ends up over the canopy start right after the canards, the square panel is now a sliding cover, and the head starts right after that part.

also that little fin above the arm in fighter mode, originally it was going to be a fin on the head but because that looked goofy and wasn't quite in the right place anyways I decided to turn it into a type of close range melee blade weapon (think along the lines of the blade in the VF-27's shield.)

so... Tell me what you guy's think, and please don't kill me...

[Lestat]

I think this is pretty freaking cool, actually. I guess it's like the VF-0 is the the VF-1. Nice drawing skills too.

[anime52k8]

oh yeah, almost forgot. the uper body is now moved over the cockpit section by way of two swing arms on either side of the fuselage (like on the VF-25) hence the large extensions where the missiles mount (when it transforms, the missiles get flipped over 180 degrees with the swing arms)

[charger69]

I need a "Macross Mecha Manual Level" nicely colored version of this beauty for my humble archive anime52k8

Edited December 24, 2008 by charger69

[badboy00z]

Looks awesome. Wish I can draw that good.

[polo]

I've always been an over the top fan of the VF-4 and I've got to say, Love this picture! Great drawing skills and good on you to come up with the idea. Maybe a colored version of this in the always classic skull scheme? Keep up with your talents my friend!

[Remko]

WOW!! Looks awesome!! Great drawing talent.

If you're interested, I've done a (basic) topview once of a VF-22S variant with a cockpit more like the VF-111 Raven. I just never got to further develop it, but always thought it would be a cool basis for a full blown VF.

[miriya]

Nice battroid!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Damn. That's awesome. The legs are a bit obvious to the VF-25, but the rest looks freakin' sweet. Only 2 things I can suggest: Give the legs their own style, similar to, but not the same as the VF-25's, and get a cleaner version drawn, dude.

By the way, Name: VF-26 Methuselah (In reference to the age of the main design)

Edited December 24, 2008 by SchizophrenicMC

[Mr March]

Kill you? At least conceptually, that's probably the most interesting piece of Macross fan art I've seen in a long time. Bravo!

The only criticism I have is that this creation is too much VF-4 and too much VF-25 and not enough "unique" mechanical design. But it's hard to look at that thing and say I dislike it. Nice work all around.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Mr March

[chillyche]

That's cool. If the VF-25 is a 2059 update of the VF-1 (I know that there is a complex lineage for the development of that fighter, and it's transformation is like part VF-1 and part YF-19, and so forth, but I mean that the VF-25 is clearly meant to suggest to an audience the VF-1, and retain a classic feel while remaining new, and plausible in 3D space) then I think this bad boy is a great update to the VF-4.

I would consider this a mashup, like Blue Eyes meets Bed Stuy, or the Gray Album. Where the two source materials are clear, but compliment each other nicely, rather than considering this a brand new design. That's my take.

Plus, your art is slick.

[Skullsixx]

Killer drawing!!!

[charger69]

My suggestion for the name:

VF-41 Graupel

...like VF-171 (as a reinterpretation of the original fighter)

Edited December 24, 2008 by charger69

[SchizophrenicMC]

It's definitely a VF-4. However, it seems to lack its own style. Come on, anime, you're an artist. Give it your style. Give it some flavor. It needs to look like a VF-4, and it benefits from having the 25's accents, but it's too much of a clash between the two. Make it your own by adding your details to make it the best of both. That's my piece. Sick design, though. Incroyable!

[Vinnie]

As the board's resident VF-4 fanatic I rate this piece as: "Better than p0rn!"

My only criticism would be the use of the hook and handle verniers on the shoulder section. Doesn't seem right, and there's speculation that the forward facing hole on the shoulders in the battroid artwork is actually another beam cannon. The side facing heavy verniers also gave it some character. However, if I were to take a departure from the original shoulder design to something new, I'd try integrating some micromissile launchers there.

Final semi-unrelated note: if you goto Mr. March's Macross Mecha Manual (say that 3 times fast) and look in the VF-4 category. There's some concept art of the VF-4 that Shoji Kawamori gave to model maker Musasiya for their resin kit. It shows an idea that the forearm and shoulder are "pods" that can be removed for different configurations like light intercept and heavy attack. This was designed before he did the transformation for the VF-4 for DM:VF-X, but it's still a great concept. If you're looking for another project, I (and I imagine Che and some of the other Aria project Staff) would very much like to see how you think the "Heavy Attack VF-4" (It's obvious which one that is) would look after a transformation to Battroid.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Vinnie

[dizman]

Must.....resist......urge.....to kill! Pretty neat design, about time the VF-4 got an updated look.

[Hikuro]

If you're looking for another project, I (and I imagine Che and some of the other Aria project Staff) would very much like to see how you think the "Heavy Attack VF-4" (It's obvious which one that is) would look after a transformation to Battroid.

Oh hell yeah totally, we must have that! Che would cream himself, as would I for some visual stimulation of something like a heavy attack VF-4!

Anime must help with the VF-4 Heavy Attack mode

[badboy00z]

How long did it take your to do the battroid? What tips do you have for drawing mecha?

[anime52k8]

wow, I'm glad everyone likes what I've done so far. looking at the battroid and fighter modes now, I have to agree that it still needs some work. I've taken some of the advice on here and did a second fighter sketch with some major changes to the Nacelles. I'll post a scan of it with some more detailed descriptions of what I did latter.

as for getting cleaner version drawn, first I want to get the whole designed finalized 100% so that I only have to draw a clean final drawing once.

to Vinnie and Hikuro: I'd totally be willing to work on a Heavy Attack VF-4, though I'd like to at least finalize this design before I start working on another valk.

and badboy00z, the battroid took me about 2hours, give or take a bit. as for tips... I'll try to get back to you on that one once I've gotten some sleep.

[valhary]

looks great i like to see a s version

[SchizophrenicMC]

Heavy Attack FTW!

[hobbes221]

That looks great! I love the VF-4 and this is a great take on it, please continue to post stuff like this.

-edit- oh yeah some design specs would be loved as well!

Edited December 25, 2008 by hobbes221

[chillyche]

I concur with Vinnie and Hikuro. Though, I'd really prefer to keep my jeans out of the equation.

[Hikuro]

getting rather spotty already buddy?

[anime52k8]

ok, so like I said I redid the fighter mode.

I tried to take into account some of the various comments people made. I agree with everyone else about the legs not quite working right, so I went ahead and reworked them a bit. I wanted to keep the VF-25 feet though (there one of my favorite parts of the design) along with the intakes, but the overall shape's been reworked and I added made the ventral fins fixed again. for the upper nacelles I went for a smoother box shape (the engine exaust parts are square, with louvers in the exhaust path for thrust vectoring) and decided to keep the hook and handle veneer thrusters instead of the more prominent thruster (I just like the look of the the old hook and handle ones better, there classic). I also changed the tail fins for a more consistent look, and shrank the canards down because I was a little concerned about them getting in the way of the transformation mechanisms.

I think I'm just about happy with how it looks so far, but I'm still open to suggestions. also I'm trying to decide on a wing shape.

right now I'm leaning more towards A or D, but I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on it.

as for design specs, I'll try to post them as I figure them out, (I've got some stuff already, so I'll get that posted soon.)

I do have a name though:

VF-400 Lazarus

(name fits with the biblical theme, and is referance to Lazarus taxa

[badboy00z]

A looks pretty cool.

[hobbes221]

It looks great, right now I'm liking 'C' for the wing as it would seem to work with the sawtooth you had on the back of the inner wing on the battroid pic. Although I do like the first fighter design a little better I think the upper nacelle looks better now.

With the 'D' wing you might have problems with the arms in battroid, just a thought.

Have you given any thoughts to having the vertical tails canted outwards as to inwards?

The only thing that I have always had a problem with (and this is with the VF-4 as well) is that the missiles look too much like they are part of the airframe. Until I read that they were missiles I anyways thought that they were so kind of high output thrusters. So maybe lose the bullet/oval shape? And on the missiles that second one on the nacelle you added might be a little too close to the wing as the wing angles down (please keep that look) and it is right above the ventral fin.

I am not disapproving in any way and only wish to help with anything I many say, so if anything sounds like I'm being an a$$ let me know this is a great design and you now inspire me to dust off my old VF design and give it some work.

Keep at it!

[anime52k8]

It looks great, right now I'm liking 'C' for the wing as it would seem to work with the sawtooth you had on the back of the inner wing on the battroid pic. Although I do like the first fighter design a little better I think the upper nacelle looks better now.

With the 'D' wing you might have problems with the arms in battroid, just a thought.

Have you given any thoughts to having the vertical tails canted outwards as to inwards?

The only thing that I have always had a problem with (and this is with the VF-4 as well) is that the missiles look too much like they are part of the airframe. Until I read that they were missiles I anyways thought that they were so kind of high output thrusters. So maybe lose the bullet/oval shape? And on the missiles that second one on the nacelle you added might be a little too close to the wing as the wing angles down (please keep that look) and it is right above the ventral fin.

I am not disapproving in any way and only wish to help with anything I many say, so if anything sounds like I'm being an a$$ let me know this is a great design and you now inspire me to dust off my old VF design and give it some work.

Keep at it!

Wing C was actually my first idea for the wing shape, though I'm begining to like A a since it (in my eyes) is the best balance between the saw tooth shape of the inner wing and the shape of the other fins on the valk.

with Wing D I was going to have it rotate 180 degrees before folding down so that it would be out of the way, but I'm begining to think that's a bit overly complected.

I tossed around a couple different ideas about where I wanted to go with the vertical fins including deleting them all together. I'm probebly going to stay with the fins I've got now, shorter and more heavily raked back and canted in.

as for the missiles, I used to think they were some form of vernier thrusters too. I'm actually thinking about changing them to something more like the missiles used on the VF-0 minus the fins (or more accurately with the fins folded in.)

as for the leg upper leg missile, right now I've got missiles in that arrangement on both the inside and outside of the leg, so I've actually got 14 missiles instead of the original 12. I think the one's on the outside would work if the wings are bare, but with pylons in use it may be a problem

and I was planning on making it so that in order for the valk to carry a gunpod it would have to store it on the leg in place of one of the missiles in question anyways.

[anime52k8]

I'm just going to post this now since I wont have time to do it until late tonight.

these are some of the spec's I've come up with so far. I'm actually working on two sets of specs, one for each of two directions I'm thinking of going with this.

the first set (the one I'm posting) has the VF-400 being designed to act as an alternative/counter to the VF-27 and thus it's been scaled up from the original VF-4 and given performance comparable to the VF-27. my other idea was to make the VF-400 a sort of light complement to the VF-25. being the same size as the original it would be lighter and higher performance thanks to improved technology, and would be equal to or slightly below the level of a VF-25.

so here's the specs so far (any or all of this could change however):

VF-400 Lazarus

Technical Data:

Equipment type: UNS/NUNS advanced tactical variable fighter

Government: N.U.N. SPACY

Manufacturer: Shinsei Industry

Introduction: 2059~2060

Accommodation: 1 pilot + 1 passenger

Dimensions:

· Fighter: wingspan 16.48 meters; Length 17.22 meters

Mass: 11.12 metric tones

Propulsion:

· Primary: 2 x 1,165 kN (leg/lower Nacelle engines)

· Secondary: 2 x 865 kN (sholders/upper Nacelle engines)

· Auxiliary: 2 x 522 kN (inner wing engines)

· 5,104 kN total. T/W ration 46.8:1

Performance: Mach 5.2 at 10,000m

-Armament-

Guns:

· 2 x Mauler RÖV-217C coaxial 12.7mm beam guns

· 2 x Sentinal HBC/HS-35B 35mm Heavy Beam Guns

· 1 x Retractable anti-armor blade (mounted in right arm)

Bombs/Missiles:

· 12 (Maximum of 14) x semi-recessed long range missiles*

· 4 x internal micro missile launchers (1 on either side of each engine Nacelle)

· 4 x under wing hard points*

Optional Armament:

· 1 or 2 x Howard GU-17A gunpod**

· 1 or 2 x Howard GU-17B gunpod**

* use of the under wing hard points interferes with the launching of the second outboard Nacelle mounted long range missile.

** In fighter Mode each gunpod is stored on the outside of the leg/lower nacelle section. the gunpod replaces the second missile on the leg when stored.

also, the GU-17B is a compact version of the GU-17A gunpod. the barrels are shortened by about 1/3, and the covers are cut down by about half, (some of the barrel's are permanently exposed.)

[SchizophrenicMC]

A and C are the best wingshapes. B's too small, E's too... Not wingish? and D completely lacks the VF-4 (Or the 25)'s feeling. Too YF-19.

As for the rest... You come up with all sorts of strange stuff... I can't remember the last time I did specs on that scale... Good job.

Bit of a thing here, 11 tonnes is pretty heavy for the time. The VF-25 on intermediate load is about 8 tons. That's... like 7 or so tonnes. I guess the recessed bits and all the extra transformation stuff adds a lot of weight. Alloys are heavier... Some sort of engine weight thing.. I dunno. I'm sure you've your reasons.

[anime52k8]

A and C are the best wingshapes. B's too small, E's too... Not wingish? and D completely lacks the VF-4 (Or the 25)'s feeling. Too YF-19.

As for the rest... You come up with all sorts of strange stuff... I can't remember the last time I did specs on that scale... Good job.

Bit of a thing here, 11 tonnes is pretty heavy for the time. The VF-25 on intermediate load is about 8 tons. That's... like 7 or so tonnes. I guess the recessed bits and all the extra transformation stuff adds a lot of weight. Alloys are heavier... Some sort of engine weight thing.. I dunno. I'm sure you've your reasons.

I figured it would be heavier because it does have 6 engines, (even if each engine is smaller than the one on the the VF-25.) the VF-27 with it's 4 engines weights in at 12 metric tones, and the original VF-4 (which is much smaller) weights in at aroud 13.5 tones.

and I did get quite into coming up with specs for this. I just wanted to throw a couple things together but it kind of spiraled out of control. I've also got a list of various weapon load outs and modified specs for an atmospheric pack which consists of new upper nacelle/shoulder and forearm assemblies. (sketching that one out still)

I'm finding the more I work on this the more unusual ideas I get but for the guys working on aria, I do plan on helping out. and don't worry about time, I tend to work fast

Anyways I'm hoping to get v. 3 done this weekend. I'm hopeful that this will be the final fighter mode profile schematic, which I'll be able to base everything else off of. (I also need to do a new battroid sketch, then a battroid final)

And I wanna know how Mr March does the HQ line art and coloring for his site! his stuff looks so perfect, I don't know how he does it.

(March, if you're reading this, Please tell me!!)

[SchizophrenicMC]

I agree... March, how do you do it?

I use March's colored lineart for my customs...

[Jacs]

I would sign up as the first test pilot! >:3

[SchizophrenicMC]

I would sign up as the first test pilot! >:3

I call commander of the first squadron!

[hobbes221]

Good specs. And you're right wings 'A' and 'C' are looking like the best right now. I feel sooo much better knowing now that I wasn't the only one who did not see the missiles for what they were

I think that just maybe the rear area of the canopy needs to be hair bigger for a twin seater.

And if you are looking at giving it other roles, if you remove the missiles on the belly and on the forward, outer nacelles you could replace them with electro optical recon or elint systems. I don't think there has been a VF along the lines of the RF-4E Phantom with internal cameras and the like.

Have you given any thought to adding wing tip mounted missile rails? might work with the design. And if you are going to rework the missile design maybe give it something like AIM-120s on the lower nacelles and a different type like AIM-9Xs on the upper nacelles/arms? That way it would be able to carry a full air-to-air mix without needing to use any pylons.

On the wings, how about having one pylon on the outer wing that would be able to rotate 90 degrees that way in battroid mode the wing stores would be inline with the wing and would not have to be punched off? You could still have two hardpoints per outer wing just have the outer one be jettisoned before transforming.

-edit- If it was me I might lose the inner wing engines as with part of the legs already there, there does not seem to be much room, but thats me. Also what about having a center line pylon on the belly, that would let you keep some stores even in gerwalk mode? With little room for FAST packs I could see this as the first VF to have drop tanks for space ops to add some propellent.

let me know if I can help with anything too

Edited December 27, 2008 by hobbes221