jenius Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 From what I've seen elsewhere (and to a smaller extent here), the Bandai VF-25 is being lauded as a fun and playable toy. I don't think you can simply pin its success on a lack of competition (although it obviously helps a ton to be the only show in town).
Cent Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 I don't really get why I'd be paying Yamato-level prices for a play-toy when I'm already trading off accuracy for durability. The DX would make more sense if it was under the $80 price tag. But I think I'm just reiterating my older posts now. =X
eugimon Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Only the 25S is currently available at HLJ (and in limited quantities at that). If you want a 25F you're looking at about $190 on average through the secondary market. The numbers say, for better or for worse, that the DX has done well. The fact that they are reissuing it just a few months after the initial release illustrates that. I would bet that the only changes we see, if any, are small fixes (like maybe the torsion on the screws), I would be very suprised if there are any major changes which would cost a lot more to fix through production (like neck length unfortunately). If and when there are more significant changes to the design in the film, then I suspect they will probably release that as a separate variant later. Also, the number of broken shoulder screw cases that I've read about I can count on one hand, where as the number of whole forums dedicated to defective Yamatos is still way in the majority. that poll is fundamentally flawed... since people can only vote once and there's been 3 releases since the 1s focker was released and many people own not only multiples but multiples of variants. The real thing you need to pay attention to is whether recent releases are having the same problem which anecdotal evidence is saying they are not. Anyways, I agree that two busted screws on the DX isn't even in the same city as the yamato QC ballpark.
Folka Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Bandai is making small quantities of shipments for stores to sell so they can create a demand on them. Since so many people want them, they can inflate the prices and people will pay it since it is the only VF-25 toy on the market at the moment.
jenius Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Bandai doesn't make anything from stores marking up their toys beyond MSRP. Another thing to consider, the Chunky Monkey was an expensive toy when it was released also and it also wasn't the most true to the line art toy while simultaneously being a huge hit. People like having fun with their toys, there's a lot to say for that. Edited February 9, 2009 by jenius
m0n5t3r Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Bandai is making small quantities of shipments for stores to sell so they can create a demand on them. Since so many people want them, they can inflate the prices and people will pay it since it is the only VF-25 toy on the market at the moment. my theory as to why Bandai released small quantities is because of all the negative comments the DX 25 got before it was even released... and Bandai might have decided to "test the waters" first... but by the time these small quantities were released the demand was actually higher than the supply... hence, the price gouging and re-issue in April. Unlike the SOC Daimos which Bandai made tons of (over-saturating the market) and was somewhat panned after release (due to paint chipping and non-anime accurate transformation) subsequently causing the prices to fall... it's just a theory but i really hope they make tons of it when they do the re-issue so the prices will go down.
Graham Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 While we all know that these days most Japanese toys are made in China to save costs, the majority are still designed by Japanese design teams. However, a little birdy in the industry told me that not only was the DX VF-25 made in China, but the job of designing the Bandai DX VF-25 was also farmed out to a Chinese design team. While it’s still a decent toy in its own right, this piece of information may explain why in main respects the toy does appear to be about 10 years behind the latest Japanese state of the art in toy design. Graham
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 However, a little birdy in the industry told me that not only was the DX VF-25 made in China, but the job of designing the Bandai DX VF-25 was also farmed out to a Chinese design team. Did this "little birdy" say more, and is this "little birdy" associated with, or friends with Yamato?
ff95gj Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 While we all know that these days most Japanese toys are made in China to save costs, the majority are still designed by Japanese design teams. However, a little birdy in the industry told me that not only was the DX VF-25 made in China, but the job of designing the Bandai DX VF-25 was also farmed out to a Chinese design team. While it’s still a decent toy in its own right, this piece of information may explain why in main respects the toy does appear to be about 10 years behind the latest Japanese state of the art in toy design. Graham First of all, I would not argue that the Japanese are expertises in designing of such complicated toys in the world. However, everyone knows the DX series is a BIG project. How would Bandai simply pass such an important project to an inexperienced/ incompetent team? That is not sensible to me. My view would be that some Chinese designers are involved, to let them gain some experience or wise. But if someone said "it looks bad because it's designed by a Chinese design team", it looks more like shifting the blame. For "durability vs accuracy", I understand that some accuracy is sacrificed for durability, but IMHO there's much room to improve the accuracy without hurting the durability.
macrossnake Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 .... if someone said "it looks bad because it's designed by a Chinese design team", it looks more like shifting the blame. Well say.
drifand Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 No matter what the little birdy claimed, Kawamori signed his name on the box. Besides, being on the bleeding edge of toy design brings its own disasters now and then.
Graham Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 Not saying the DX is bad, I actually really enjoy mine, but it does exhibit obvious signs of being far from cutting edge. Graham
Graham Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 Did this "little birdy" say more, and is this "little birdy" associated with, or friends with Yamato? Yes, some more, but I'm not going to repeat it yet, until I get confirmation from independant sources. Not Yamato. One of the toy factory owners from China I've met. Again, not bashing Chinese toy designers, but they are not as experienced or accomplished in designing transforming mecha toys as the Japanese. Just a fact. Graham
jenius Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Didn't we see pictures of the Japanese design team working with Kawamori in various published mags?
macrossnake Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Again, not bashing Chinese toy designers, but they are not as experienced or accomplished in designing transforming mecha toys as the Japanese. Just a fact. Graham After all, Bandai approve the design (doesn't matter if it is designed by Japanese team or not) and the toys get produced...
Vifam7 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) The idea that the DX toy was designed in China is a bit suspect. They may have had a hand in inputing modifications to make it more suitable for mass production but the whole entire design work? Very interesting if true. And if true that means Bandai had little involvement in the actual design of the DX toy. In other words, other than the Bandai (along with Big West's) stamp of approval, this isn't really a "made by Bandai" toy. It's a Bandai toy in name only. Also if true, wouldn't this toy be ripe for bootlegging? Or perhaps alternative marketing? Like how Matsushiro (who designed the original 1/55) was able to sell the Takatoku toy as a "Jetfire"? Edited February 9, 2009 by Vifam7
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 The idea that the DX toy was designed in China is a bit suspect. They may have had a hand in inputing modifications to make it more suitable for mass production but the whole entire design work? Agreed. After all, Bandai approve the design (doesn't matter if it is designed by Japanese team or not) and the toys get produced... Kawamori approved it too.
Vifam7 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Didn't we see pictures of the Japanese design team working with Kawamori in various published mags? Wasn't that the model kit team? The one mag article I recall most is the one where Kawamori toured the factory. The same article I think mentioning how Bandai was gearing up the machines for another reissue of the old kits.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 No matter who designed the toy shouldn't change the way the toy is viewed. Just because the toy may be revealed to be of Chinese origin/design doesn't make this toy inferior or suddenly of lesser quality. If it wasn't designed by a Bandai team, it is a very impressive toy made by a newcomer to Macross toys.
Graham Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 What I heard is not confirmed, but I consider the source to be pretty reliable. Graham
Vifam7 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 No matter who designed the toy shouldn't change the way the toy is viewed. Just because the toy may be revealed to be of Chinese origin/design doesn't make this toy inferior or suddenly of lesser quality. That's true. But (if true), it does bring the question of who owns the design rights to the toy itself. Usually the side who did the grunt work has or shares the rights. As I wrote above, it could potentially be an opening to alternative versions.
tank Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 should have just let yamato take the job, I'm sure they would have done 100x better despite of the qc problems they always have. Still hoping yamato can do a take at the vf-25's
Ivan Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Not saying the DX is bad, I actually really enjoy mine, but it does exhibit obvious signs of being far from cutting edge. Graham I think it's a good thing in the long term: - if everything can be done in China, there's further room for cost reduction, and prices may come down - China's industries are slowly shifting from low-skill labor to more high end stuff However, I am just curious if the design job was farmed out voluntarily or required by some clause in the contracts.
Graham Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 Even if designed by a mainland Chinese team, intellectual property rights & tooling will be 100% owned by Bandai.
ntsan Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 should have just let yamato take the job, I'm sure they would have done 100x better despite of the qc problems they always have. Still hoping yamato can do a take at the vf-25's Probably after HG has their Macross license expired and Bandai lost their M7 license
honkhet Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) many people here forget that the VF-25 mecha design was done with the transformation for the toy already in mind. BUT as for the rest: VF-1, YF-19, YF-21, VF-11B all were designed with little regard for a transformation process that can be made into a toy. and also probably people will argue about the case for the VF-0 and SV-51, but i see no denying that there's still that "anime magic" happenning in the SV-51 to achieve those battroid limb proportions. with these points in mind, isnt it obvious that designing an accurate and durable VF-25 toy for a toy company, is much easier than designing a VF-1/YF-19/YF-21/VF-11B and even the VF-0/SV-51? i really wonder why the bandai DX vf-25 suffers so much in terms of accuracy. there is simply no denying a better job could have been done. just look at the model kit vf-25 and i dont even have to say more. that's why probably graham's story about the china design team makes sense. "let yamato take the job" i'd say. Edited February 9, 2009 by honkhet
eugimon Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 All the conspiracy theories aside, I firmly believe it's the material choice that most affected how the DX looks. Diecast is going to require thicker/stronger plastic to support the weight. That's going to affect every other decision made.
edwin3060 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Personally, the more I play with my DX-25F, the more I like it. The parts, even the small ones like the landing bay doors, hold in position unlike my Yamato VF-0 or YF-19 where the doors (and other parts) fall open at the slightest touch. I've even come to accept the fighter mode for its own benefits, even with my 1/72 models on display beside it-- for one, the hip/intake guns fit perfectly. I haven't received my DX-25S yet to the head lasers have yet to bother me, but even those can be fixed with a hair dryer or some hot water. Overall, I'd say that Bandai has succeeded, and the sales figures bear this out. I can safely say that I'd buy a DX VF-27 even if the proportions are about the same! Edited February 9, 2009 by edwin3060
jenius Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I prefer handling my DX over any transforming Yamato I have ever handled. Sure, I prefer the looks of many of my Yamato toys.
CF18 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Handling is the big advantage of Bandai products. The Sv-51 looks so bad ass but I just can't bring it to work. The box is too XBOX huge. I would worry about co-worker and cleaner touching it. Taking 15+ minutes to transform it is not gona fly at work. OTOH my 1/55 chunky 1J only take 20 seconds to transform. I just change it's form or pose once each day for the hack of it.
edwin3060 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I prefer handling my DX over any transforming Yamato I have ever handled. Sure, I prefer the looks of many of my Yamato toys. Yep thats why I'd wish that Bandai would make a 1/60 PG VF-25 (just like how the 1/72 VF-25 is compared to their 1/100 MG Kits) so that we would have a to-scale VF-25 that could be displayed beside all the Yamatos without hanging it's head in shame
Cent Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Or maybe Yamato should have stuck to a 1/72 scale like every other scale plane model. The VF-25 model kit team is not at fault here.
DarkReaper Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 The VF-25 model kit team is not at fault here. You are right, the model team did everything right. Even delivered more than you could expect from a model. Perfect transformation. The DX however is an old 1/72 yamato in 1/60 scale.
edwin3060 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Or maybe Yamato should have stuck to a 1/72 scale like every other scale plane model. The VF-25 model kit team is not at fault here. No one is at fault here. Wishing that they would release a 1/60 model kit doesn't mean that they were wrong for releasing the 1/72-- thats like saying that the PG Strike Gundam means theres no reason for getting the MG Strike Gundam. Anyway, Yamato tried with the 1/72s and found the scale too small, which is why they moved to 1/60 in the first place. Dark Reaper: At least the DX is durable, unlike the old 1/72s, and doesn't have weird parts sticking out like the old 1/72 VF-11B. Edited February 9, 2009 by edwin3060
CF18 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 You are right, the model team did everything right. Even delivered more than you could expect from a model. Perfect transformation. But no perfect fast pack installation. From what we know so far you will need to rebuild 1/3 of it to put fast packs on.
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