Is Yamato too greedy?

[boota]

Yamato making 1000-2000 yen per 1/48 valk is not alot in the scheme of things... it's not an amount to sneeze at either. Why not make another 30 Yen for side parts and such, or 100 yen more just for QC on top of that? The real question isn't whether Yamato is greedy or not... it's that they aren't customer savvy at all. They don't do their home work, they certainly don't learn from their mistakes. You guys dispense economic wisdom for a company as though there is something to be gained from doing it. Well, here is the reality... for every one of you who thinks that Yamato isn't greedy, there are 10 of these guys:-

I don't know about Yamato being greedy; I know I'm definitely greedy. I usually read reviews from many people and wait for prices to drop before buying any Yamato product. I don't really practice this habit a lot with other companies, but experience has taught me to do it especially with Yamato products, and it has worked out well to my advantage. If Yamato prices don't drop, c'est la vie... life goes on.

Edit:- But prices did drop on most of Yamato's items... it happens when a company concedes that they were probably a little too greedy? and that they are no longer in control of people's purse strings due to less than favorable reviews. Bless the internet for that!

But rock on if it pleases you.

Edited December 11, 2008 by boota

[myk]

Yamato is a business, trying to make MONEY. That's what businesses do, try to make MONEY. How the heck can a business try to make too much money? Everything they do, whether it be to market a new or better product, is designed to get cash.

"Oh no Mr. Dateless Toy collector," we've made PLENTY of money, we certainly don't need any more. Here, have these products for FREE!!!!!!1111"

[miriya]

Yeah, the side parts should have been included. But we have been begging them since we heard about it way before the release and... um... nothing... what?

One thing that IS bothering me is the GNU with the fp parts. Why must they have come out with an FP version now and not just give it to us straight from the get go. I really like the GNU figures. I like them much better than those cheap revoltechs regardless of their amazing poseability but I dont want to buy the YF-19 and YF-21 all over again for the fast packs. The revys at least came with the FP to start with. Problem is that I dont like the way they look.

[ff95gj]

Just in case you missed... You can buy the fast packs separately.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Yeah, the side parts should have been included. But we have been begging them since we heard about it way before the release and... um... nothing... what?

One thing that IS bothering me is the GNU with the fp parts. Why must they have come out with an FP version now and not just give it to us straight from the get go. I really like the GNU figures. I like them much better than those cheap revoltechs regardless of their amazing poseability but I dont want to buy the YF-19 and YF-21 all over again for the fast packs. The revys at least came with the FP to start with. Problem is that I dont like the way they look.

[VFTF1]

Lots of things to clear up:

The consumer doesn't really care about the business they are buying from, just themselves. Any more than a business might not care whether they underpay a worker to get a good deal without caring about the worker only just barely being able to pay his bills or feed his family - it's business. No matter what side you are coming from: the minute you can find a better deal you go for it.

This is flawed argumentation IMO. There is no such thing as "underpaying" a worker in the market (barring the imposition of laws which protect Unionized workers and force down the wages of non-unionized ones or the introduction of various controls over the price of labor). When prices are freely established, then If the worker is working for below his market price, he will find employment elsewhere for more. If no one else wants to offer the worker more because his skills are not worth more at the time, or because there is a high supply of labor and lower demand for it, then he won't make more.

The consumer doesn't need to care about the business they buy from. The person who sold you your breakfast doesn't need to love you. People who run grocery stores don't need to do it out of a desire to feed the world's poor and starving.

It's enough that people act in their rational self interest and exchange values as they see them. Obviously despite all of the concerns about Yamato and its' product and QC, there are enough people happy with it to keep the business afloat.

ALSO - very important for a business - there are enough people GRUMBLING and COMPLAINING to indicate that IF Yamato had better QC and better pricing, then they would have MORE customers.

So - yes - even threads full of complaints are good for a business - if people are taking the time to chew you out, then it means they care about what you do and would like to support you IF you do it better.

"Oh no Mr. Dateless Toy collector," we've made PLENTY of money, we certainly don't need any more. Here, have these products for FREE!!!!!!1111"

Actually - this does happen, although not for the reasons one might think.

Right now, Hasbro is havign a Christmas thing where they match your donation to toys for tots with merchandise from them - FOR FREE.

This is very nice for poor children and a wonderful gesture - and it is also in the interest of Hasbro in a shrinking economy where a recession is pushing down consumer spending, leaving them with large quantities of shelf-warming, unsold goods.

What better way to free up shelf space for their distributors than to push some of those goods for free as holiday gifts for Children? Better than letting them sit there taking up space. The holiday freebie is also good marketing and good PR for the company.

So see - sometimes it's in the interest of Businesses to give stuff away for free even. Ever been to the super market deli and seen girls asking you to please try this cheese? Or please sample this meat? Or please have one of thse cookies or cakes or whatever?

They are giving food out for free - but the reason is that they hope you like it enough to buy some or at least to remember the brand in the future when you go shopping OR at the very least to appreciate the particular store for giving you some goodies to eat when you shop there.

So - free services are often a staple of business and it is in their interest to do it.

The real question isn't whether Yamato is greedy or not... it's that they aren't customer savvy at all. They don't do their home work, they certainly don't learn from their mistakes.

I would be more inclined to agree with this statement than with the accusation that they are greedy.

However, I honestly wonder whether it is a matter of doing their homework and understanding customers or whether they know full well that we are pissed every time a shoulder cracks, a missile pod won't stay on its' wing etc but they just don't have the means yet to guarantee their products' quality at a satisfactory level?

Certainly if we compare what they're doing now to ten years ago - they have gotten better in terms of quality and precision.

Hopefully they will continue to do so.

Pete

[mr.chogokin]

Yamato making 1000-2000 yen per 1/48 valk is not alot in the scheme of things... it's not an amount to sneeze at either. Why not make another 30 Yen for side parts and such, or 100 yen more just for QC on top of that? The real question isn't whether Yamato is greedy or not... it's that they aren't customer savvy at all. They don't do their home work, they certainly don't learn from their mistakes. You guys dispense economic wisdom for a company as though there is something to be gained from doing it. Well, here is the reality... for every one of you who thinks that Yamato isn't greedy, there are 10 of these guys:-

But rock on if it pleases you.

I know I'm cheap. No need to make it sound worse than it already is!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

This is flawed argumentation IMO. There is no such thing as "underpaying" a worker in the market (barring the imposition of laws which protect Unionized workers and force down the wages of non-unionized ones or the introduction of various controls over the price of labor). When prices are freely established, then If the worker is working for below his market price, he will find employment elsewhere for more. If no one else wants to offer the worker more because his skills are not worth more at the time, or because there is a high supply of labor and lower demand for it, then he won't make more.

Demand for something isn't just solely affected based on supply though.

The quality of the work falls depending on the level of talent of the workers you hire. As people notice a difference in the product being offerred, demand is lowered but its due less because of "over-supply", and more due to a change in how that product is created. A poorly-done job is as much an excuse to expect to pay less for it, as it would be of having the market flooded with too much of a given thing resulting in demand for it being lessened.

The quality of a nintendo wiis graphics is inferior to the quality of the graphics you get from other consoles of its generation. So people can say the technology is overpriced compared to the competition, yet it sells despite that. It's not high priced because demand for them is based on quality. It's high priced because demand is based people being used to paying that much for it but not knowing any better and the company being more "greedy" relative to the competition because it can "get away with it", so they made a decision to exploit that. Just like a worker might be performing well and doing a quality job compared to another worker performing poorly but who is still paid the same just because the boss is ignorant that he could find better workers.

Good example is when a series of games is created by a different development team (the call of duty games for example) and fans of the game notice the crappier team behind the odd-numbered sequels offers less quality than the one that does the even-numbered sequels. Those who can't stand the odd-numbered sequels feel they are getting less for their money because the quality of the work isn't up to the standard of the even-numbered sequels done by the more talented team. Just as people who buy a nintendo wii may regret owning it because they realise it is little more than a slightly-better gamecube in graphics performance despite the system selling well to those who are ignorant of the graphics due to lack of care about wanting high quality of this within games.

Demand for yamato toys would similarly drop when enough people who experience poor quality decide to simply *avoid buying. But the demand would have nothing to do with how many of the item is available and more due to how the product was created. Was a lot of effort wasted in one thing that nobody cares much about for example? The "homer simpson mobile" may just be an expensive piece of crap due to waste of resources, so demand is low because of what it is. Not because there were too many homer simpson mobiles flooding the market which then drives demand down, but just because it was a crap idea so demand was never there to begin with.

*Let's say for the sake of argument yamato never addressed any of the problem of the critics and ignored the complaints. Would you still buy their stuff? I know I'm insulated only because I like to read what other reviewers have said before dipping in, so I only buy when quality is maintained to satisfactory level before handing over the money. But I can assure you that demand for the toys wouldn't be there at all if the problems of cracking shoulders persisted, no matter how many or how little supply existed. Until a change had occurred in how the product was made it's not going to solve the problem of just being an expensive piece of crap, (like the homer simpson mobile) no matter how much yamato spent developing it. So telling us how much was spent in development of an item isn't what we the customer want to hear: just that the problem can be solved and the final result. Just as the boss that you might work for might not care about your problems paying bills or feeding a new child which is just coming into the world, but in whether you deliver in performance. (ie the final result you output - yamato QC guy who didn't do as good a job as the replacement one could be thought of as someone who just isn't giving the same service for instance)

Edited December 11, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[VFTF1]

Low Viz brings up an interesting problem -

Here's how I see it:

The real question from Yamato's point of view is this: How will the volume of sales change if QC is 100% airtight and there are no flaws in ANY of their Macross valkyrie any more?

Judging by the polls taken at Macrossworld, roughly 30% of all Yamato products have QC flaws at SOME stage (usually first editions prior to tweeks). That is a STAGGERING percentage that would usually sink a company.

So why doesn't it sink Yamato, and what doesn't Yamato work triple-plus-good-hard to fix the problem and make QC flaws more normal (like 0.00000009% as they would say in NGE )...

Answer: (or at least my presumption/suspicion):

Beause the volume of sales would NOT go up even if the QC and other problems were perfecty taken care of, but the additional cost for Yamato in perfecting the QC WOULD go up. This is because I surmise that demand for Yamato's products is VERY LIMITED. These are not selling like hotcakes nor are they produced in truly mind boggling quantities.

It is a tight market where the demand curve is inelastic - this situation is bad for everyone in some sense. Bad for us as consumers because the prices are higher than they would be if more economics of sale were involved, but also bad because QC and other problems largely persist partially due to the sad fact that more people would NOT buy Yamato products en mass if they were fixed.

This is not to say Yamato is not trying to fix the problem - but rather that fixing the problem will not yield them staggeringly better results, and it probably costs a lot to do.

Such is the fate of niche markets - and again, with all due respect to Macross (which I love), let's be serious here - this is a total major niche market except maybe in Japan - that really limits what can be done.

Pete

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The real question from Yamato's point of view is this: How will the volume of sales change if QC is 100% airtight and there are no flaws in ANY of their Macross valkyrie any more?

I know for a fact that I personally would have bought the Zero toys more confidently if I was guaranteed close to 100%. (SV-51 I was satisfied with, so they are the exception there being a part of the macross zero line)

When I bought my nintendo DS Lite for example, one thing that really disapointed me was how the shoulder button had problems working and this affected my ability to play games properly. When I sent it in for repair due to defect, and got it back and the problem still came back, it destroyed my confidence in buying any more of that product ever again. What went through my mind was: what chance do I have of having this problem return again if I were to buy another one? I don't care that 100000000000000000000 other people in the world are quite happy to pay a high price for it like a Furby during christmas when parents are desperate to find that thing their little kid can't get, (which means demand is high so prices should be higher for the thing) .....nope, all I give a poo about is me and being able to play my games properly. Demand for a new one is now lowered from my perspective simply because my confidence in the quality offered is lessened due to my personal experience.

Sure the world can pay whatever nintendo can get away with it, but it's because those people have made a decision that it's ok with them getting away with it and nintendo greed imo not necessarily because my mind is screwed up and I have to adjust my expectation just because others have low standards and expect something to cease functioning so easily because they are used to it happening. (due to the competition also releasing defective products. But two wrongs don't make a right)

Edited December 11, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[VFTF1]

I know for a fact that I personally would have bought the Zero toys more confidently if I was guaranteed close to 100%. (SV-51 I was satisfied with, so they are the exception there being a part of the macross zero line)

Sure- I would have to. I'm now going to spend this year buying up all of the Zero, Plus, and DYRL stuff that I already have just because I want doubles.

But you and me are Macross fans who generally collect this stuff.

Most toy companies and retailers rely on people just wanting to buy some popular toys for their kids. Yamato's Macross line, even if the QC was 100% perfect, would not qualify for that beause:

a) it is "too expensive" for "normal people" anyways

b) Due to the precision it does not qualify as a toy by law in the majority of Western countries (it has parts which are "too sharp" and "too small" to qualify as a toy)

c) Macross is not popularized outside of Japan except via the internet - this is a fact - and as powerful as the internet is, it's going to probably take at least our generation dying off until the internet has surpassed television and the printed press (I believe this will eventually happen) - until that time, large corporations, broadcasting boards and the likes will retain massive marketing power for their chosen brands (Pokemon, Transformers and other streamlined mainstream brands rather than the unconventional and risky anime brands)

And unfortunately - if Macross fans were going to fill that gap, people like you and me would have to probably buy roughly - this is my guess - 500 Macross Valkyrie a month to make a difference.

But we are more than likely going to buy 5 to 10 Valkyrie per year - and that will be a significant amount for an individual.

There are too few of us.

Yamato has still been able to capitalize on this small market by giving it what it desires and is willing to shell out for: high quality high precision goods based on the best anime stories around.

In order for Yamato, or any other company to excell factors outside of their grasp have to work - Macross has to go global, it has to happen legally, and retailers have to have official distributors to work with in order for prices to go down for the customers.

Untill all of this happens - things won't change. It could be worse.

Pete

[miriya]

Just in case you missed... You can buy the fast packs separately.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Oh! In that case, nevermind. I did not realize that. I guess I will be picking those up then.

[do not disturb]

not to start trouble but just because graham says yamato only makes 1,000 yen profit per unit doesn't make it a fact.

if they made 100000 yen per unit, you think he'd come here and tell us that? you think yamato would knowingly let out the real cost of production/profit margin, and blow up their spot? come on, lets be real.

sorry graham but you never really say anything bad about them.

i understand why you don't but the fact remains that you're cool with them and would like to remain cool with them.

i know you're a fan like the rest of us but you're not going to publically bash them so your opinions are somewhat biased.

this isn't a thread to bash/back graham nor me.

if you have a problem with my post, please PM me and don't clutter the boards.

Edited December 11, 2008 by do not disturb

[VFTF1]

I don't think anybody has a problem with your post DND - everyone has a right to their opinion and nothing inflamatory in what you said.

Of course we will never know what the real cost of production is for Yamato - we don't know all the factors. We don't even know what is meant by "cost of production" - is this a per unit cost factoring in the CAD design/mold design/factory production/cost of materials/labor? Or is it ONLY the cost of actually producing one unit in the factory - which would mean that actually the process is even more expensive?

But it's reasonable to acertain the following:

IF:

a) Demand for high end Macross products was huge

b) Yamato's profit margin was HUGE

c) It was possible to make these things cheaper and sell them cheaper

Then other companies woul be falling over one another to do it. There would be bidding wars for the license for Macross items.

I am sure that there was a bidding war between Yamato and Bandai for Macross Frontier. Why did Bandai suddenly get interested in Macross after not really caring about it for so long? Probably because they saw how much Yamato was selling for and figured they could produce at lower ost and get a cut of the profits and that the franhise might have a lucrative future if Yamato was still there and growing despite its' very risky endeavor.

None of us know for sure - but I think that these opinions of mine and be logially deducted from the facts that are known and that the margin of error is slim.

But of course everyone has a right to their own opinions - even to the opinion that Yamato is "too greedy" if that's what you believe.

Pete

[crescens]

well, we all know that prices depends on exchange course... for polish ppl for example, yamato toys are kinda expensive ( spent 1/4 of my monthly paycheck for my 1/48 VF-1S ). but for ppl living in japan and earning money in yen's prices are normal i guess. we have to remember yamato is a japanese company aiming at japanese market >_<

kill me if im wrong

@pete

ur from Poland pete? >_>

[VFTF1]

kill me if im wrong

@pete

ur from Poland pete?

Yep

Pete

[crescens]

Yep

Pete

good to know

[do not disturb]

I don't think anybody has a problem with your post DND - everyone has a right to their opinion and nothing inflamatory in what you said.

Of course we will never know what the real cost of production is for Yamato - we don't know all the factors. We don't even know what is meant by "cost of production" - is this a per unit cost factoring in the CAD design/mold design/factory production/cost of materials/labor? Or is it ONLY the cost of actually producing one unit in the factory - which would mean that actually the process is even more expensive?

But it's reasonable to acertain the following:

IF:

a) Demand for high end Macross products was huge

b) Yamato's profit margin was HUGE

c) It was possible to make these things cheaper and sell them cheaper

Then other companies woul be falling over one another to do it. There would be bidding wars for the license for Macross items.

I am sure that there was a bidding war between Yamato and Bandai for Macross Frontier. Why did Bandai suddenly get interested in Macross after not really caring about it for so long? Probably because they saw how much Yamato was selling for and figured they could produce at lower ost and get a cut of the profits and that the franhise might have a lucrative future if Yamato was still there and growing despite its' very risky endeavor.

None of us know for sure - but I think that these opinions of mine and be logially deducted from the facts that are known and that the margin of error is slim.

But of course everyone has a right to their own opinions - even to the opinion that Yamato is "too greedy" if that's what you believe.

Pete

haha, you never know in this place.

someone almost always reads too much into my posts.

also note, i misquoted graham(i'll fix my previous post after i post this).

he said they make 1000 yen per unit, NOT that it costs them 1000 yen to produce them.

anyway, like you said, its almost impossible to know what the actually production cost is per unit based on every dollar that has been spent to have them produced. i'm sure someone in yamato financial knows but they're not coming here to tell us nor are they going tell graham or anyone else in the public for that matter.

i.e.if i made something that only cost me $5 to produce, i'm not going to tell you it cost me $5. i'd tell you it cost me $25 so i can sell it to you for $50, and you as a retailer can mark it up to a $100. know what i mean?

the true cost will never be know but i'm pretty certain they're making more than 1000 yen per unit. its pretty clear that they're moving high quantities while the retail for their wares keep going up. they're making it for less, selling it for more because thats what the market will bare...not that theres anything wrong with that, thats business.

people claim yamato is small but they are far from it. maybe back when the 1/72 came out but they made a killing on the 1/48 and it took them from a small garage company to one of the better companies producing high end toys for the adult collectors market.

anyway, whatever the case, greedy is a bit strong and way too negative so i'd say they're business savy. same way i describe stealing something as liberating it from someone.

again none of this is fact, just my opinion.

[Vifam7]

I am sure that there was a bidding war between Yamato and Bandai for Macross Frontier. Why did Bandai suddenly get interested in Macross after not really caring about it for so long? Probably because they saw how much Yamato was selling for and figured they could produce at lower ost and get a cut of the profits and that the franhise might have a lucrative future if Yamato was still there and growing despite its' very risky endeavor.

From what I know, bidding wars do not occur for production of an anime series. It's usually the other way around - production companies begging and pleading for sponsorship. And I seriously doubt Bandai and Yamato had to compete with each other for the license of Frontier. Afterall, I doubt Yamato had any kind of resource to sponsor a full blown anime series.

If anything it probably just a case of the stars lining up right. The generation that watched Macross on TV had reached positions at Bandai, the pre-plans by SK and staff were done right, the story appealed to the brass, the right sales people were working, maybe Bandai wanted to revisit an old property (revisiting the classics seems to be in full swing lately - and not just at Bandai), perhaps Big West gave a nice deal to Bandai (like all media & merchandising for Frontier property in perpetuity) etc etc. etc. Yes perhaps Yamato's products may have had some influence but I don't think that alone was the key to Bandai sponsoring Frontier.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Vifam7

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

In the case of the v2 1/60, I think it is silly that they concentrated on the removable head thing instead of side parts. I'd rather they spent the effort on the side pieces.

I think it was silly that the fragility of the shoulder hinges was overlooked. I would have rather Yamato spent the effort making them out of a very durable material, and try to avoid another inevitable(though slower) VF-0 arm fiasco. It is very obvious that Yamato can make a very durable toy, the v2 1/60 VF-1 ironically enough is a great example of it....except for the shoulder hinges. Everything else on it is durable, solid, moreso than the 1/48, even the nose panel transformation is not a PITA like everyone thought it was initially. A lot of people whine and say "oh you shouldn't be playing with your Yamatos, the 1/60 is like a model kit, bla bla bla bla". Lies. If the new 1/60 had POM shoulder hinges or a better design or better material composition, it would be the most durable VF-1 toy only 2nd to the 1/55.

[VFTF1]

Agreed.

I am hoping that this problem will be limited to a portion of the first run of the VF-1S and that's all.

Pete

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

not to start trouble but just because graham says yamato only makes 1,000 yen profit per unit doesn't make it a fact.

if they made 100000 yen per unit, you think he'd come here and tell us that? you think yamato would knowingly let out the real cost of production/profit margin, and blow up their spot? come on, lets be real.

sorry graham but you never really say anything bad about them.

i understand why you don't but the fact remains that you're cool with them and would like to remain cool with them.

i know you're a fan like the rest of us but you're not going to publically bash them so your opinions are somewhat biased.

this isn't a thread to bash/back graham nor me.

if you have a problem with my post, please PM me and don't clutter the boards.

This is a good point it kind of reminds me sometimes of when game reviews come out early and all the reviewers who got the opportunity to rate the game earlier than the other magazines seems to have higher scores and less harsh criticism than the reviewers who got the chance to review the game later.

This is a conflict of interest between the supplier of the titles to the press, (who can refuse to give the game reviewers they don't like the game for review in time for the release of the game) and the readers of the magazine who want 100% unbiased view of the game. It's well known that companies negotiate the score before the reviewer has even given his judgement and if the website or mag relies on adsfrom that company to keep the site up, the company can pull the ads from the site and leverage the critics whose sole job is to give the reader their unbiased opinion, yet who can't refuse an order from high up in the chain to be nice because the boss needs that $ to keep the site going. One of the more well known examples is the gamespot Kane And Lynch Review where Jeff Gerstmann (the reviewer of the game) was fired for not being nice enough in the review. A lot readers to GS were very angry about that because it indicates the people who run the site no longer have their priority in order and this has prety much turned off people from trusting many websites like that in giving completely honest reviews.

http://vgmwatch.com/?p=1125

Not to say that graham isn't unbiased or anything (I trust his reviews ) but we should always be aware that there is a conflict of interest there where the company can refuse to make the samples available if they think it will be too harshly judged. If we ever see graham review yamato toys negatively I'm willing to bet that yamato will go all mean again and stop talking to him. (but that's business I suppose your goal as the seller is to sell and public image is everything - if that includes choosing who gets to review the item first based on how positive the review you think your product will be getting, then so be it) Having said that the difference is graham isn't being paid to provide reviews and its a fan site.

Edited December 12, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

If we ever see graham review yamato toys negatively I'm willing to bet that yamato will go all mean again and stop talking to him.

Constructive criticism is fine, companies prefer that, they just don't want fanboy rants. There is a difference.

[Hurin]

If you're still buying them despite all those angry misgivings, then clearly the price is just right. Or perhaps too low. They're out to get as much for each toy as they possibly can without pissing you off so much that you won't buy the next toy.

So, the only poll that matters is the one you participate in via your wallet.

Edit: Oh, and the cost to actually manufacture the toy is largely irrelevant. Price is set by what we are willing to pay, not by how much the toy costs to produce. Unless, of course, we're willing to pay less than the toy costs to produce. In which case, the toy won't get made.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Hurin

[sketchley]

well, we all know that prices depends on exchange course... for polish ppl for example, yamato toys are kinda expensive ( spent 1/4 of my monthly paycheck for my 1/48 VF-1S ). but for ppl living in japan and earning money in yen's prices are normal i guess. we have to remember yamato is a japanese company aiming at japanese market >_<

kill me if im wrong

@pete

ur from Poland pete? >_>

They're expensive here. Very expensive.

The average part-timer gets a starting wage of ￥725. How many hours do they have to work to save up enough for one of these toys? (Ignoring taxes for the moment.)

[arrow]

I guess we'll never really know how their balance sheet. But, I think they are greedy in that they are not making more of their products so that they can sell it at a lower price. I doubt more making more of some models will make it less desirable since most everyone in this forum would like the whole line if they are more affordable.

[SilentCrossHairs]

I guess we'll never really know how their balance sheet. But, I think they are greedy in that they are not making more of their products so that they can sell it at a lower price. I doubt more making more of some models will make it less desirable since most everyone in this forum would like the whole line if they are more affordable.

I am not rich....So in order for me to get certain yamato macross stuff involves some heavy trading. This hobby thing is worst than a drug. But hey, Yamato is doing some heavy pimping. As long as my stuff is 100%. I cant complain. Don't hate the player...hate the game.

[crescens]

They're expensive here. Very expensive.

The average part-timer gets a starting wage of ￥725. How many hours do they have to work to save up enough for one of these toys? (Ignoring taxes for the moment.)

￥725 / hour ? 20-25 hours >.< 3 days of work, where in poland its like 1 week of work for me >.>

[SchizophrenicMC]

What about the unemployed minors? It really sucks for us because the parents say "If you have the money for it" and you can't make any money... I don't make enough for a 1/60 S/SP, let alone a valk... Damned Yamato. We've seen the Bandai 1/72 VF-25 at less than half of the Yamato 1/60s. Considering the barely different size and even taking away value from having to build and decorate yourself, the Bandai 25 is cheaper. Add to that Yamato's horrid QC...

[sketchley]

I guess we'll never really know how their balance sheet. But, I think they are greedy in that they are not making more of their products so that they can sell it at a lower price. I doubt more making more of some models will make it less desirable since most everyone in this forum would like the whole line if they are more affordable.

And how does making more products improve things for the company? I believe someone already addressed this earlier. Given the available information, they are producing the quantity that the market can take at the price the market is willing to buy at. Producing more would mean a loss - both in additional funds spent on storage, and the cutting off their noses despite their face when they have to liquidate the excess stock.

[sketchley]

What about the unemployed minors? It really sucks for us because the parents say "If you have the money for it" and you can't make any money... I don't make enough for a 1/60 S/SP, let alone a valk... Damned Yamato. We've seen the Bandai 1/72 VF-25 at less than half of the Yamato 1/60s. Considering the barely different size and even taking away value from having to build and decorate yourself, the Bandai 25 is cheaper. Add to that Yamato's horrid QC...

And how exactly is your not having a job Yamato's problem?

[m0n5t3r]

And how exactly is your not having a job Yamato's problem?

LOL!

[SchizophrenicMC]

I never said it was. However, this dude

￥725 / hour ? 20-25 hours >.< 3 days of work, where in poland its like 1 week of work for me >.>

is complaining about how he has to work for a week to get enough money for a valk. Comparatively, an unemployed minor like myself must work around 2 years, doing random odd-jobs for such things.

[edwin3060]

What about the unemployed minors? It really sucks for us because the parents say "If you have the money for it" and you can't make any money... I don't make enough for a 1/60 S/SP, let alone a valk... Damned Yamato. We've seen the Bandai 1/72 VF-25 at less than half of the Yamato 1/60s. Considering the barely different size and even taking away value from having to build and decorate yourself, the Bandai 25 is cheaper. Add to that Yamato's horrid QC...

I think you are vastly discounting the cost of assembly, especially for valkyries which are so intricate-- for plastic kits, everything from production to packaging can be automated, you practically just need to feed in plastic and cardboard at one end and the boxed kit pops out at the other end! (Hyperbole, I know, but still.) For assembled kits, after all the injection mould etc, you have the additional step of painting, tampo printing, and you need to employ one factory of people to assemble all the toys! How would you like to build the same VF-1 shoulder day after day? You have to figure some of these factory workers would want to spice things up a little by inserting the shoulder joint hinge pins upside now . Add in the QC process to correct the wrongly inserted shoulder pins, and now your cost of production is many times higher than a plastic model kit.

Bandai almost certainly has a higher profit margin on its VF-25 1/72 kits than Yamato has on their 1/60 Valkyries.

On the part about minors-- I empathize, having recently been done with that phase of my life. I understand your pain! But look at it this way-- once you are earning enough money to buy your own valks, the satisfaction will be that much greater, and you already know which ones are good and which ones are terrible, so you can make better use of your money, instead of having to play the random numbers game! But until then, work hard and aim to get a well paying job that can feed your Macross addiction! (Cliched but true.)

[VFTF1]

But people - let's be clear about something:

So - some folks have to work 3 days to be able to afford a Valkyrie from Yamato.

Other people have to work a week.

Some youngsters even have to work for...2 years (sniff sniff, cry cry)

How long did Yamato have to work to design the perfect transformation VF-1 1/48 and 1/60 scale Valkyrie?

10 YEARS

How much did it cost them to do this?

A lot more than it cost any of us to buy one of their Valks.

If you look at it that way - you are paying 3 days of your time for 10 years of Yamato's time.

The question of whether it's worth it is up to each individual.

But the general complaint doesn't hold water.

Second matter:

One of the members noted that Yamato was greedy because it doesn't produce MORE Valkyrie in order for price to be lower per unit. This is an interesting question - Yamato is, in a sense, an oligopoly if not an outright monopoly insofar as the perfect transformation/precision Valkyrie market is concerned - so in a way - I think you might well be right. But even under this scheme of things, they are improving - the v.2 1/60 is very cheap for a Valkyrie that includes Super and Strike parts and has all of the features that it has and all of the precision.

But - yes - here I concede that Yamato may likely be taking advantage of its' oligopolistic status and this might indeed have something to do with the final prices being so high (can't really call them a total monopoly since other companies DO produce VF-1s - they just do a worse job at it).

Pete

[boota]

Yamato didn't take 10 years to make a 1/48... experience and actual time taken are two totally different matters. Shouldn't talk about Yamato valk making journey like how The Eagles wrote their songs...42 years to write and 4 minutes to sing... If there is any hint in sincerity from the former, we'd take your words for it already.