Is Yamato too greedy?

[Valkyrie addict]

Ok, venting, having a bad day... anyway, I'll keep this simple, to direct all the Yamato hate to one place so other threads don't stray off topic

Considering Yamato as a company with more than a decade of experience with Macross; Revoltech and Bandai joining the Macross toy business with dedicated quality toys and Yamato's history of questionable releases with beautiful but completely flawed products with increasing costs for them

do you think they are too greedy with their prices? simple poll...you can post why or why not

EDIT: crap, added the poll

Edited December 9, 2008 by Valkyrie addict

[OmegaD3k]

No.

Bandai's 1/60 VF-25 goes for $130 (Luca is $182), compared to:

Yamato's 1/60 VF-1 version 2 which goes for $100. With super/strike parts it's $137.

I'd say it's a draw. In any case I rather pay for artistic/accurate/craftsmanship quality rather than QC, which is why my ticket goes to Yamato.

I don't play with my figures, maybe that's why I've been lucky so far.

EDIT: Just checked HLJ for a Yammie VF-0 and SV-51 and saw that they're over 200 bucks. @_@ What caused the prices to go up? I remember when these were under $180!

Edited December 9, 2008 by OmegaD3k

[Apollo Leader]

Ok, venting, having a bad day... anyway, I'll keep this simple, to direct all the Yamato hate to one place so other threads don't stray off topic

Considering Yamato as a company with more than a decade of experience with Macross; Revoltech and Bandai joining the Macross toy business with dedicated quality toys and Yamato's history of questionable releases with beautiful but completely flawed products with increasing costs for them

do you think they are too greedy with their prices? simple poll...you can post why or why not

Yamato, like any other manufacturer, has a lot of things to consider when it comes to the costs of their products. Things such as engineering, design, manufacture, production numbers, what kind of sales numbers they expect, shipping cost (ie. fuel prices), the current and projected economic state, and ultimately the profit margins they need to pay their employees their salaries and keep the company afloat.

Unlike Namco/Bandai, Yamato is a smaller company catering to a niche market. Their products are obviously going to be higher priced.

[eugimon]

No.

Bandai's 1/60 VF-25 goes for $130 (Luca is $182), compared to:

Yamato's 1/60 VF-1 version 2 which goes for $100. With super/strike parts it's $137.

I'd say it's a draw. In any case I rather pay for artistic/accurate/craftsmanship quality rather than QC, which is why my ticket goes to Yamato.

I don't play with my figures, maybe that's why I've been lucky so far.

EDIT: Just checked HLJ for a Yammie VF-0 and SV-51 and saw that they're over 200 bucks. @_@ What caused the prices to go up? I remember when these were under $180!

it used to be around 110 yen to a dollar, now it's 92ish to a dollar. The tanking economy caused the prices to go up (relatively).

[VFTF1]

No.

There is no such thing as being "too greedy." Theoretically, there will always be a buyer at every price; and the lower the price, the more buyers there will be, while the higher the price, the fewer buyers there will be - again theoretically until you either reach 0 buyers (price too high - aka seller "too greedy") or infinite buyeres (price = 0, so there is NO COST for anyone, therefore everyone technically could buy it [discounting cost in time/space etc).

Naturally the seller will not sell for zero, even though at that price he will have the greatest demand, because he cannot produce for zero and therefore would end his business.

The seller will also not sell at the price of Infinity because no one would buy anything for infinite money (aka - I give you this Valkyrie and you fork over an IOU for all your wages till you die, plus your inheretance, plus your children's wages etcetc etc).

The end result is that the market price is established somewhere in between these extremes and is always a factor of many variables and ultimately the result of an attempt to garnish marginal gains on both sides (on the part of the consumer and the seller/producer).

"Greed" has nothing to do with busienss. It is a moronic (sorry for the harsh term) illusion. People do not sit around in corporate boardrooms rubbing their pot bellies and cackling like maniacs that they are going to "fleece" the consumer.

EVEN people who try to get government bail outs (aka try to circumvent the market process) actually behave pretty humble about it.

People who decide to be insanely greedy (aka "too greedy") end up loosing customers and loosing business.

Most of us accept the fact that Yamato produces the highest quality transforming figures on Earth. Bandai's SOC line is also of high quality; but it is easier to make because the figures are not as complex as Macross. And they are usually not as poseable as what Yamato makes.

We also accept that the development and production of molds is expensive; particularly for something so big and with as many moving parts as a Valk.

The QC problem is definitely a problem. I would buy 10 VF-1S v.2s and probably many many more of the other fighters QUICKER and without that much hestitation if there were no flaws. With the flaws - I'm always like "noo...if money's really tight, I'm not going to risk getting a dud"

So Yamato is probably suffering the QC issue. And I am sure they are aware of it and working on it. But they are also suffering from the problem of a demand for making something as durable as a TF but with the detal and precision that we expect.

Lots of stuff for them to do.

Final argument:

If Yamato were "too greedy" Yamato would say "screw Macross. Screw Macross fans. Screw this minor market niche that we've been pouring out hearts and time and money into to risk making perfect transformation beautiful Valkyrie. Let's go make some cheap slippers, children's toothbrushes, coffee mugs, women's deoderant and nail polish."

in other words - they wouldn't waste their time on this high risk crazy venture and instead branch out into something with a more promising long term future.

Pete

[Vostok 7]

Without owning a 1/60 v2 I have to say, they seem like a good value, especially compared to the VF-25 Chogokins.

However, where Yamato loses it is with the Destroids. $100+ for them just doesn't make sense. Honestly, Yamato's pricing tactics just don't make much sense. Their new Patlabor for $300? Destroids for $100+? Q-Rau for over $100? Votoms are $200+ (and have to get marked down to $60 to even sell on HLJ)? And yet, perfect transformation 1/60 Valks are around $100. 1/48 perfect transformation valks were around $150. There's a crap-ton more engineering and design work in a perfect transformation Valkyrie than there is in a 1/60 destroid or a 1/24 Patlabor. Just doesn't make sense.

Vostok 7

[Jasonc]

I don't think they're being greedy. At the prices they set for their items, they do sell. It's not really a matter of being greedy or not, it's all about being capitalistic. As with most companies, you want to sell an item at the highest price possible without losing customers, and still keeping in good competition with your competitors. The fact that Yamato doesn't really have much of a competitor for its Macross line, they just need to sell their items where they won't lose customers. That said, while the prices are high due to economics, and just cause it's a specialty market, I don't think they're being greedy.

[Vostok 7]

I don't think they're being greedy. At the prices they set for their items, they do sell. It's not really a matter of being greedy or not, it's all about being capitalistic. As with most companies, you want to sell an item at the highest price possible without losing customers, and still keeping in good competition with your competitors. The fact that Yamato doesn't really have much of a competitor for its Macross line, they just need to sell their items where they won't lose customers. That said, while the prices are high due to economics, and just cause it's a specialty market, I don't think they're being greedy.

Indeed, a lot of the current pricing is artificially high somewhat compared to what it was a year or so ago because of the crappy state of the dollar.

Vostok 7

[danth]

I got a better idea for a poll: Are japanese toy collectors suckers?

I actually don't mind the prices if the toy is "accurate" enough and it doesn't fall apart. Yamato fails to satisfy these requirements quite often. So do Bandai and CM. So does Toynami.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I wonder if the fact that Yamato is a smaller company means that Big West charges them a higher licensing fee than other companies. Expenses add up when you have to either buy replacement parts, or replace a figure on account of broken parts, which sucks.

[Vifam7]

Without owning a 1/60 v2 I have to say, they seem like a good value, especially compared to the VF-25 Chogokins.

However, where Yamato loses it is with the Destroids. $100+ for them just doesn't make sense. Honestly, Yamato's pricing tactics just don't make much sense. Their new Patlabor for $300? Destroids for $100+? Q-Rau for over $100? Votoms are $200+ (and have to get marked down to $60 to even sell on HLJ)? And yet, perfect transformation 1/60 Valks are around $100. 1/48 perfect transformation valks were around $150. There's a crap-ton more engineering and design work in a perfect transformation Valkyrie than there is in a 1/60 destroid or a 1/24 Patlabor. Just doesn't make sense.

Vostok 7

Prices also reflect how a company feels about the product's popularity. Even though Valks are more complex, there's no question they are more popular (thus sell more) than destroids or labors.

As for greed. It's not greed if customers are willing to pay for a company's product and the company is making profit on it.

Personally I think Yamato toys are a bit overpriced. But that has nothing to do with greed on Yamato's part. Just an issue of my personal bias and finances.

[do not disturb]

yamato are wholesalers, they have a MSRP(manufacturers suggested retail price, suggested being the keyword)but they don't set retail prices. thats up to each individual store owner and what they feel the market will bare at their retail locations.

if you live in a low income and/or poor neighborhood, you're not likely to move $200+ toys.

if you live in a high income and/or rich neighborhood, you can sell the same toy for $300.

anyway, to answer the original question of are they greedy?

not really but they're certainly not generous by any means.

[do not disturb]

I wonder if the fact that Yamato is a smaller company means that Big West charges them a higher licensing fee than other companies. Expenses add up when you have to either buy replacement parts, or replace a figure on account of broken parts, which sucks.

theres no such thing a set licensing fee since it really depends on what you're selling/manufacturing.

you negotiate the fee and hope you get a good deal.

[Vifam7]

I got a better idea for a poll: Are japanese toy collectors suckers?

That answer could go both ways. Because it's possible that they aren't suckers and don't really buy these toys. That only the hardcore or masochistic buy them. Hence the high prices.

[Fly4victory]

Concur!!!

If I don't like the prices then I need to look in the mirror and ask, "Why am I buying the stuff".

Its not food, gas, or rent. Since I have less money I buy less toys, models, and DVDs.

[TheLoneWolf]

So who would like to justify this one? Non-transformable and approximately 12 inches tall.

Price: 28,000円 or $330.00.

I agree that a lot of Yamato's products are overpriced, which is why I stopped buying them years ago. Price is ultimately determined by the buyer, not the seller. The toy community has collectively brought these prices upon themselves, not Yamato. If you want Yamato to lower their prices, you know what to do. (Hint: complaining on MW isn't it)

[VFTF1]

So who would like to justify this one? Non-transformable and approximately 12 inches tall.

Price: 28,000円 or $330.00.

I will.

Lower production run than the Valkyries, ergo higher risk that costs of production (from R&D to mold creation) won't be returned.

As much of a niche market as Macross is, I think Patlabor is even MORE of a niche market.

Another possibility: Yamato might be spreading the costs in way that are beneficial to their principle consumers.

If there is a larger base of Macross buyers, then Yamato might have made the V.2 VF-1S "cheaper" and the Patlabor "more expensive" to offset the "cheaper" valks.

Prices are different for different reasons.

I wouldn't buy that Patlabor because I'm not a fan, nor does the design do much for me.... but some people might think that a one foot tall Patlabor is the greatest thing ever..

Also - as has already been mentioned - the exchange rate is now much worse for foreign buyers than it was... So maybe the 28,000 Y price tag would have not looked that bad to you two months ago - and does now...

I wonder - what do Japanese folks think of the prices on these items? They don't factor in shipping, import duties etc etc etc but just get the item off the shelf.

Obviously if "I" were living in Japan I would "think" that I'm in price-heaven - but only in comparisson to now - I wonder how I would feel about the prices after living and working there for a few years?

Pete

[Macross_Fanboy]

Well I only owned one Yamato product and it was 1/72 YF-21. Right now with the current economic crisis I find it kinda hard to make my government salary last or have a more favorable amount of spending money left over by the next payday which I pump into my debt or savings, since I mostly live off of the Japanese economy and not the American one. When I get my place in the next few months I would like to spend some money on the 1/60 of M+ toys and even go for the M0 set and get a VF-1S Strike, but the mighty dollar isn't so mighty, also including that my cost of living I get doesn't seem to be adjusting very well to the economy. I'm still waiting for my advancement in paygrade so I can see more $$$. I miss the days of 117JPY to 1US$. On the lighter side, don't think that the companies are greedy because you're broke.

[Vifam7]

(Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 @ Dec 9 2008, 03:37 PM) *

I wonder if the fact that Yamato is a smaller company means that Big West charges them a higher licensing fee than other companies.

theres no such thing a set licensing fee since it really depends on what you're selling/manufacturing.

you negotiate the fee and hope you get a good deal.

I posted in another thread that recently a few posters at 2ch alleged/suggested that Big West in general charges very high license fees for anything Macross. Thus the reason why the volume of Macross products has been low and why Macross products are so expensive.

Ofcourse it is a 2ch post so it could be total BS. But it's not completely unbelievable either. Because Macross isn't really niche and Yamato isn't that small of a company.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Vifam7

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I would say overall, no, although their craptastic QC mishaps give them an "un-caring rating". Not enough care taken.

Guess you could say they are greedy for the fact it took them 3 attempts (50/50 say 4) to get the shoulders correct for the VF-Zero's

and so far (but only just 1 incident?) 2 attempts to get the new v.2 1/60 VF-1's shoulder pins/arms correct. Hows the VF-1J Yamato?

Punching out the next colour variant and not addressing the problem (come off it, it doesn't take long to get feedback back when something is

wrong with your product) is rather greedy, and unforgivingly careless. If only they would have better QC management.

I'm 95% happy with all my Yamato purchases, 5% deducted with QC probs with the 1st release 1/60 19, and the worry wart VF-0A Shin.

No problems with the Shin though, and hopefully never.

Edited December 9, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[danth]

If you want Yamato to lower their prices, you know what to do. (Hint: complaining on MW isn't it)

Why quit complaining? When you point out flaws, you might convince others not to buy as well.

Plus, it's very cathartic.

[ntsan]

No.

Bandai's 1/60 VF-25 goes for $130 (Luca is $182), compared to:

Yamato's 1/60 VF-1 version 2 which goes for $100. With super/strike parts it's $137.

I'd say it's a draw. In any case I rather pay for artistic/accurate/craftsmanship quality rather than QC, which is why my ticket goes to Yamato.

I don't play with my figures, maybe that's why I've been lucky so far.

EDIT: Just checked HLJ for a Yammie VF-0 and SV-51 and saw that they're over 200 bucks. @_@ What caused the prices to go up? I remember when these were under $180!

Compare in USD is never gonna get you any good judgement. Let alone VF-25 is much larger than VF-1.

In terms of Yen, a 1/60 YF-21/SV-51 cost 21,800 yen, YF-19 cost 18,800yen, VF-0 cost 16800 yen and with booster its 19800 yen, compare to Bandai's 12,000 yen for VF-25 and 16,000 with super pack (and only 14000ish yen if you can find good place) it is really good price

So yeah I do find Yamato is outrageous with price and worse QC than a model kit.

And giving they are re-releasing another limited Roy VF-1s.. feel sorry for those guy who paid $500 for it lol

Edited December 9, 2008 by ntsan

[fifbeat]

They're a little greedy. But, if it weren't for them, we wouldn't have cool toys. They seem to be the only ones doing it right.

I wish they were all 1/2 the price though. =)

[VFTF1]

I wish they were all 1/2 the price though. =)

Now who's being "greedy" ?

I dunno - I have nothing against complaining about QC and discussing the legitimacy of pricing policy and final prices.

I guess I just get instinctively defensive whenever accusations like "they're greedy" get flung around, or "too greedy." This kind of accusation suggests some kind of malice on the part of Yamato, which in my mind is just a bit far fetched. All the more since the entire thread is a little bit hypocritical... I mean - the thread basically illusrates that WE are also greedy, and sometimes "too greedy" insofar as we want top of the line quality for dirt cheap prices.

It is impossible and undesirable to ever come to a firm conclusion about how much such things "should cost" and all designations of "too expensive" or "wow that's cheap" are relative to income, competing prices, etc etc etc.

I see little point in such discussions. The threads in the toys section which are about concrete toys where people voice concrete concerns arethe ones tha Yamato should be paying attention to - if not literally, then at least in general they should pay attention to those types of concerns.

In any event - the more people insist that Yamato is greedy, the more they prove their own greed.....so I don't see the point of the exercise.

Pete

[m0n5t3r]

when i saw on the other thread that they're asking for Y2000 each for the Fast Pack add-on for the GNU's... it does seem that they tend to become greedy at times...

on a different note, i think making these "Limited Exclusive" stuff makes them "greedy" or maybe selfish (not money-greedy). the first time i saw the weathered 1S, i didn't know it was gonna be a limited release, i just really liked it coz it looked awesome, not because it's an exclusive item. i think it's greedy or selfish of them to leave the countless non-Japan-resident Macross fans salivating. i dunno, somebody said it might be a culture thing, this Limited/Exclusive thing.

Edited December 9, 2008 by m0n5t3r

[eugimon]

It really depends on your political and economic views. If you think companies exist to provide you with low cost goodies, then yes, yamato is greedy. If you think companies exist to make themselves and their shareholders money, than no, they're not too greedy. If you believe in the free market, then there's no such thing as too greedy unless they drive themselves out of business which yamato doesn't seem to be in any danger of.

[Vostok 7]

Now who's being "greedy" ?

I dunno - I have nothing against complaining about QC and discussing the legitimacy of pricing policy and final prices.

I guess I just get instinctively defensive whenever accusations like "they're greedy" get flung around, or "too greedy." This kind of accusation suggests some kind of malice on the part of Yamato, which in my mind is just a bit far fetched. All the more since the entire thread is a little bit hypocritical... I mean - the thread basically illusrates that WE are also greedy, and sometimes "too greedy" insofar as we want top of the line quality for dirt cheap prices.

It is impossible and undesirable to ever come to a firm conclusion about how much such things "should cost" and all designations of "too expensive" or "wow that's cheap" are relative to income, competing prices, etc etc etc.

I see little point in such discussions. The threads in the toys section which are about concrete toys where people voice concrete concerns arethe ones tha Yamato should be paying attention to - if not literally, then at least in general they should pay attention to those types of concerns.

In any event - the more people insist that Yamato is greedy, the more they prove their own greed.....so I don't see the point of the exercise.

Pete

I agree. Using the term "greedy" is highly subjective.

What would really convince me is for someone to 1) Calculate exactly how much material cost is per unit, 2) How much cost per unit goes to making molds, 3) How much goes to engineering, 4) How much per unit goes to licensing, packaging, and general advertising, 5) How much goes to finish manufacturing (tampo printing, assembling, painting, etc. etc.) and finally 6) How much is pure profit. I think we'd all be quite surprised how low the amount of profit is, relatively. When people complain about pricing they seem to never take into account just how much goes into not only designing a product like this, but materials and other costs involved in making them. PERCEIVED value is meaningless. This is why I say that a 1/60 perfect transformation Valkyrie at $100 seems like a good deal while a 1/60 destroid made out of the same materials seems like a ripoff because I'm sure when you break it down to fundamental parts, there's no way making a non-transforming 1/60 figure out of the same materials as a 1/60 perfect transformation figure really costs the same.

However, when it comes to value, it's telling when a $200+ Votoms gets marked down to $60... That means someone along the line is losing quite a bit of money.

Vostok 7

[Valkyrie addict]

ok, maybe greedy wasn't the right word...there are different perspectives to everything

I'll post mine...

Limited 1/48...why limited and so expensive...the molds are like 5 years old, no research or engineering had to be done for this, and there isn't much marketing, a few pictures on some hobby mags and coupons on Yamato's own magazine...really?.... 500 dollars for a 5 year old toy that got dirt added?? seems excessive to me

YF-19 and GNU-Doi, they were intended to be used with fast packs, they had the attachment on them since their release, why make the first release without them and not mention anything about add-on until released 5 months later... 60 dollars for the fold booster set fot the YF-19 and 25 dollars for the GNU fast packs... they knwo most fans will get something once released, why sell it incomplete...I know it's marketing, but they're pushing it with this, seems unfair what about the YF-21, it has the ability to add a fold booster, it's even on the manual, but they don't sell a fold booster separately, you'd had to buy a YF-19 fold booster set, or a bundled YF-19...why?

please explain this too me, I understand it's marketing, but Yamato's get sold pretty well, this kind of things are unnecessary

Edited December 9, 2008 by Valkyrie addict

[eugimon]

ok, maybe greedy wasn't the right word...there are different perspectives to everything

I'll post mine...

Limited 1/48...why limited and so expensive...the molds are like 5 years old, no research or engineering had to be done for this, and there isn't much marketing, a few pictures on some hobby mags and coupons on Yamato's own magazine...really?.... 500 dollars for a 5 year old toy that got dirt added?? seems excessive to me

YF-19 and GNU-Doi, they were intended to be used with fast packs, they had the attachment on them since their release, why make the first release without them and not mention anything about add-on until released 5 months later... 60 dollars for the fold booster set fot the YF-19 and 25 dollars for the GNU fast packs... they knwo most fans will get something once released, why sell it incomplete...I know it's marketing, but they're pushing it with this, seems unfair what about the YF-21, it has the ability to add a fold booster, it's even on the manual, but they don't sell a fold booster separately, you'd had to buy a YF-19 fold booster set, or a bundled YF-19...why?

please explain this too me, I understand it's marketing, but Yamato's get sold pretty well, this kind of things are unnecessary

meh, what seems unreasonable to you may seem perfectly reasonable to someone else. For instance, when the hikaru VF-1s was announced there was BITTER emo filled rants posted here about how yamato was ripping us off and how they should have included the 1s head with the original hikaru 1a release. Other people took it further and demanded that any single vf-1 should include every head variant.

As for the weather variants, they weren't sold by yamato for 500 bucks, it was the grey market that set that price via ebay and other auction sites. Yamato released a limited edition weather variant and PEOPLE decided it was worth 500 bucks, not yamato.

Perhaps you should direct your anger towards other collectors?

[VFTF1]

Generally I agree with Eugimon, but will add my three cents anyways...

I agree. Using the term "greedy" is highly subjective.

What would really convince me is for someone to 1) Calculate exactly how much material cost is per unit, 2) How much cost per unit goes to making molds, 3) How much goes to engineering, 4) How much per unit goes to licensing, packaging, and general advertising, 5) How much goes to finish manufacturing (tampo printing, assembling, painting, etc. etc.) and finally 6) How much is pure profit. I think we'd all be quite surprised how low the amount of profit is, relatively. When people complain about pricing they seem to never take into account just how much goes into not only designing a product like this, but materials and other costs involved in making them. PERCEIVED value is meaningless. This is why I say that a 1/60 perfect transformation Valkyrie at $100 seems like a good deal while a 1/60 destroid made out of the same materials seems like a ripoff because I'm sure when you break it down to fundamental parts, there's no way making a non-transforming 1/60 figure out of the same materials as a 1/60 perfect transformation figure really costs the same.

However, when it comes to value, it's telling when a $200+ Votoms gets marked down to $60... That means someone along the line is losing quite a bit of money.

Vostok 7

I think you make a lot of good points here. If Yamato is a publicly listed/traded company, then getting their annual profit data should not be that difficult. Remember, however, that a company's profits are not the same thing as, say, the salary of the guy designing the Valk or building the mold etc etc etc. I wonder how much the QC guy made? ... Jokes aside though - you are correct in your line of thinking; at least I agree with you.

As for the Votoms getting marked down - initially, that is a sign that the retailer is loosing quite a bit of money - but ultimately it does filter back to the producer, because the producer suddenly finds the wholesaler saying "we have too much of these and our retail customers don't want any more" - and if the producer ends up with too much, then crazy things happen. Everybody looses money.

The consumer also looses in the long run, because if a product line fails utterly then it is usually canceled, suspended and companies will simply decide - meh - nobody wants this stuff and move on to making something more viable.

I mention this because - the example you give - with the Destroids costing so much - can be viewed in a different light:

Imagine what would have happened had Yamato's initial line of 1/72s - with all their shortcomings and flaws - TOTALLY bombed and not sold? Imagine what would have happened if their other stuff didn't sell or, if it sold for very little?

It is very very very hard to project into the future as to which portions of your assortment will be shelf warmers and which won't. So a company tends to jack up the price on EVERYTHING in the hopes that at the end of the sales cycle, the stuff which sold very well will have brought in enough money to cover for the stuff that's still sitting on the shelves and no body wants even at 75% off retail (case in point: check the main page of HLJ for that Samurai thingy - it actually looks pretty cool - but not cool enough to warrant 98000 JPY I guess)...

So - if you look at it this way - then you suddenly realize that high prices even on items that seem not to warrant them is a gamble to cover a company's bets.

This is especially true of smaller companies which can't take full advantage of the economies of scale, which Yamato can't. Of course it's not a street urchent and Macross isn't some obscure past time of basement dwellers - but compared to Bandai and Takara, or Hasbro for that matter, Yamato is not very big at all.

As for the weathering VF-1S - Eugimon basically said it all - and I'm not surprised it was so hard to get outside of Japan and for so much money. If I wanted you to go down to your local wal-mart and pick me up an Animated Wreck-gar, pack him up nicely and send it to me now - wouldn't you want to be somewhat compensated for your time? If I understand correctly, the only way for people outside of Japan to get the weathered fokker was via people IN Japan and a complex ordering process. Time and work are also a factor in the pricing of such goods.

Finally - also please notice that this is our second "Yamato valkyrie are too expensive" thread (basically) - and yet NOBODY seems to notice that the 1/48 Angelbird now costs as much as a Binaltech Transformer. Of course, this has nothing to do with Yamato, but is simply a retailer trying to get rid of overstock - but the point is; overstock does happen; and for every example of something that is "insanely priced" you will likely find something that is a "real bargain."

Pete

[anime52k8]

all I'm going to say is that I like the fact that this threads poll lets you vote for yes AND no.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yamato needed to include sideparts with v2 1/60 valks. I think it's standard part of a valk not an accessory. Listen to the fans, and they should be ok in my books. We were there for you in the early days, when the masses forgot all about macross.

In a way it's like when a metal band goes softcore and changes themselves to cater to a different crowd: they may abandon the original people who liked them and sell out to gain the respect from others at the expense of the original people that liked them and quality/care is lessened per customer/fan because they can afford to piss people off now that they have lots of money to ignore us. Yamato listen to our song.

Edited December 10, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Vostok 7]

meh, what seems unreasonable to you may seem perfectly reasonable to someone else. For instance, when the hikaru VF-1s was announced there was BITTER emo filled rants posted here about how yamato was ripping us off and how they should have included the 1s head with the original hikaru 1a release. Other people took it further and demanded that any single vf-1 should include every head variant.

As for the weather variants, they weren't sold by yamato for 500 bucks, it was the grey market that set that price via ebay and other auction sites. Yamato released a limited edition weather variant and PEOPLE decided it was worth 500 bucks, not yamato.

Perhaps you should direct your anger towards other collectors?

Exactly. I'm sure Yamato didn't charge $500 for the weathered VF-1S (as much as they would have liked to I'm sure ). VF-1A Low Viz 1/48s were standard price when they first came out. It was the limited nature and desire (being a color scheme that's never been done before) that drove the price up. I bought my Low Viz for standard 1/48 price right when they came out (I was lucky, I should have bought more than one) and turned around and sold it when I was tired of it (around the time the non-limited Low Viz 2 was coming out) for a healthy profit. And the guy I sold it to thought he got a great deal. Also, the 1/60 VF-1A CF "Toys R Us" limited edition comes to mind too. I bought one for standard price from some excellent MW member in Japan that was going down to TRU and picking them up for everyone. I turned it around and sold it for a healthy profit as well when the non-Limited 1/60 CFs came out (and then bought two ).

But as I said, how much of that do you think Yamato actually saw? I'm sure if they thought they could get away with $500 for the limited weathered Roy but imagine the hissy fits they would get if they did. You can't blame Yamato for a collector market price increase which is run purely by supply and demand. You CAN blame Yamato for making such a lame limited that commanded such high prices, but they aren't the ones who set such a ridiculously high price.

Vostok 7

[Graham]

Yamato's history of questionable releases with beautiful but completely flawed products with increasing costs for them

I definitely take issue with your use of the phrase "completely flawed products".. While the occasional Yamato product may have QC issues, some, minor, some major, it is hardly fair to label all their products this way.

Graham

[Graham]

When discussing whether Yamato is too greedy, one really needs to discuss this using Yen prices, not US prices, which are currently artificially high due to the crappy exchange rate. And of course you should not factor in shipping cost to you overseas as that is nothing to do with Yamato.

Anyway IIRC, a standard 1/48 VF-1 without FAST Packs cost Yamato somewhere between 4,500 to 5,000 Yen each to produce. This is what Yamato has to pay the factory in China.

The MSRP in Japan for a 1/48 VF-1 is 14,800 Yen, but this is of course not what Yamato sells the toys for.

Again if I remember correctly what I was told, Yamato will normally sell the toys to a wholesaler at about 50-60% off the MSRP. The wholesaller will then sell the toy to a retail store at about 25-30% less than MSRP.

The retail store then marks up to MSRP, or there abouts.

Yamato is only actually making about 1,000 to 2,000 yen per 1/48.

Graham