Britai the Destroyer?

[ewilen]

Who wiped out the population of the Earth in DYRL? From all appearances, it seems likely that Britai nearly exterminated the human race. Of course, it's possible that someone else did so (or at least, it's possible that Britai was acting on direct orders from Bodolza), but...Occam's razor and all that.

But then--why was the Earth flattened? In the TV show, Bodolza does it to destroy the threat to Zentradi discipline posed by Earth culture. But in DYRL, Bodolza doesn't find out about the threat until after the destruction.

So in DYRL-continuity, can we conclude that Zentradi standard operating procedure is simply to smash every populated planet they come across?

[Uxi]

IS there a DYRL continuity?

[Nightbat]

So in DYRL-continuity, can we conclude that Zentradi standard operating procedure is simply to smash every populated planet they come across?

Think back to TV's "boobytrap"

My guess is it happened in DYRL as well, only this time the Zentradi weren't interested in the human reaction weaponry nor did they know males and females lived and worked together (yet)

there was a threat on that planet that was taken out, simple as that

and where there's one threat there might be more, so just to make sure they bombed the crap out of the entire sphere

(think about TV,..if they did this at the beginning, they didn't have the grand cannon pop as a surprise in their face)

Edit: we know DYRL doesn't follow the storyline of the TV series,

only the characters and "some" events remain the same

Edited November 5, 2003 by Nightbat®

[wrylac]

Do we know for sure that Earth was attacked before/as SDF-1 left? I thought I remembered a comment in DYRL? about them losing contact with Earth, is it that SDF-1 was in space before Earth was attacked?

[ewilen]

Uxi: by "DYRL continuity" I just mean "the sequence of events in the DYRL version of the story".

Nightbat: I see your point. Yes, the Macross probably did fire the first shot, and that would have triggered the Zentradi attack.

Edit: We'll have to review the opening bits, Wrylac.

Edited November 5, 2003 by ewilen

[treatment]

Do we know for sure that Earth was attacked before/as SDF-1 left? I thought I remembered a comment in DYRL? about them losing contact with Earth, is it that SDF-1 was in space before Earth was attacked?

From the sega-dreamcast DYRL game-intro that was in Macross 20th anniversary DVD, the Earth was attacked while the SDF-1 (and/or at least the Skull Team) was still on Earth.

--treatment--

[Nightbat]

While in TV it was Bodolza who was responsible for the destruction of earth

In DYRL its safe to assume Britai acted alone, since Bodolza was nowhere to be seen until they were taken prisoner

as for when Earth was destroyed in DYRL

Either Hikaru was lying to minmay about not knowing what happened

and Misa was off duty sleeping so deep it resembled a coma

and the footage of the game is truth

But this doesn't seem the case in DYRL

they both were quite surprised they were on earth (and what was left of it)

Then again...they never knew how the bombardment ended since they folded out of there

[nhyone]

In DYRL its safe to assume Britai acted alone, since Bodolza was nowhere to be seen until they were taken prisoner

But it may not be Britai if he is busy chasing after SDF-1. Could be another group that may or may not report to him.

[JB0]

Do we know for sure that Earth was attacked before/as SDF-1 left?  I thought I remembered a comment in DYRL? about them losing contact with Earth, is it that SDF-1 was in space before Earth was attacked?

From the sega-dreamcast DYRL game-intro that was in Macross 20th anniversary DVD, the Earth was attacked while the SDF-1 (and/or at least the Skull Team) was still on Earth.

--treatment--

Saturn, not Dreamcast.

It was also ported to the Playstation.

[Druna Skass]

I always thought the entire Zentran force was at Earth. They chased the mystery ship (Macross) there, it shot at them, and they retaliated. Then when the Macross folded Britai was sent after them.

I got that idea since when Britai folded to Bodolza's ship that's when Hikaru and Misa ended up on Earth, so I'm assuming Bodolza was in Earth orbit, and there from the start.

[treatment]

Do we know for sure that Earth was attacked before/as SDF-1 left?  I thought I remembered a comment in DYRL? about them losing contact with Earth, is it that SDF-1 was in space before Earth was attacked?

From the sega-dreamcast DYRL game-intro that was in Macross 20th anniversary DVD, the Earth was attacked while the SDF-1 (and/or at least the Skull Team) was still on Earth.

--treatment--

Saturn, not Dreamcast.

It was also ported to the Playstation.

Yup. My bad.

It was the Saturn, not the Dreamcast. m_m

[ewilen]

I got that idea since when Britai folded to Bodolza's ship that's when Hikaru and Misa ended up on Earth, so I'm assuming Bodolza was in Earth orbit, and there from the start.

I think maybe the Earth lay on the course to Bodolza's ship, but Bodolza's ship was far away (probably outside the Solar System). If he'd been hanging around the Earth the whole time, he'd either have intercepted the Macross or at least the Macross would have detected him and his fleet as it arrived on Earth. Instead, we see the Macross pick up Hikaru & Misa, then there's a fight with the Meltrans, and then Bodolza's fleet arrives and proposes a truce. (Bodolza's true intention being to learn whatever secrets of Protoculture he can to gain an advantage over the Meltrandi.)

[Uxi]

Uxi: by "DYRL continuity" I just mean "the sequence of events in the DYRL version of the story".

I know what you meant. Should have put a wink. More precisely I'd ask if there IS THERE STILL a DYRL continuity given that it's "just a movie in the movie" thing now.

Isn't it a given that you need SDF Macross to put the events of DYRL into perspective? Have to admit I've never understood the people who want another timeline (alternate?) based off DYRL. Why dooes it have to be different from SDF: Macross? I'm referring to the origin of the Macross (Supervision Army vs Meltran), etc...

Edited November 5, 2003 by Uxi

[Wes]

I think it would be alot to handle on Britai's resources. He was up there, but nothing gave me the idea that he had control of a sizable fleet in DYRL. Even then, only Bodolza's could do the job quickly; it would take Britai awhile.

[Agent ONE]

IS there a DYRL continuity?

yeah...

[Agent ONE]

Uxi: by "DYRL continuity" I just mean "the sequence of events in the DYRL version of the story".

I know what you meant. Should have put a wink. More precisely I'd ask if there IS THERE STILL a DYRL continuity given that it's "just a movie in the movie" thing now.

...

Ok dude... lets just pretend we are all listing to that lame-ass Basara sing on the Macross 7 because we all live there... Thats right I want you to imagine that you are living in the M7 universe. *

NOW: In the fictional movie DYRL, was the Vrlitwhai Kridanik fleet responsible for the destruction of the earth? I would say, we are left with no other conclusion to draw.

*it should be noted that the entire movie within a movie thing was made up 10 years after DYRL came out.

[Uxi]

*it should be noted that the entire movie within a movie thing was made up 10 years after DYRL came out.

Yeah.

Even before the retcon, it always seemed kind of ambiguous on the "continuity" (such as it is). SDF Macross is required to have a frame of reference. IMO, rather than an attempt to create a new continuity it was simply a "let's do this since we now have a bigger budget" without saying the tv series way didnt' happen.

In the "fictional DYRL movie" Vrlitwhai did NOT destroy the population of the Earth. The script writers did.

A1, you know you wanna live in the M7 Universe and be a Fire Bomber groupie.

Edited November 5, 2003 by Uxi

[Agent ONE]

*it should be noted that the entire movie within a movie thing was made up 10 years after DYRL came out.

Yeah.

Even before the retcon, it always seemed kind of ambiguous on the "continuity" (such as it is). SDF Macross is required to have a frame of reference. IMO, rather than an attempt to create a new continuity it was simply a "let's do this since we now have a bigger budget" without saying the tv series way didnt' happen.

In the "fictional DYRL movie" Vrlitwhai did NOT destroy the population of the Earth. The script writers did.

A1, you know you wanna live in the M7 Universe and be a Fire Bomber groupie.

Ya know what man... M7 is a fictional story, so is DYRL, therefore if ewilen wants to discuss it, he can.

[dna]

A1, you know you wanna live in the M7 Universe and be a Fire Bomber groupie.

From now on, whenever I see a scene with teh Flower Girl, I will picture Agent ONE! instead.

[Uxi]

Ya know what man... M7 is a fictional story, so is DYRL, therefore if ewilen wants to discuss it, he can.

Wow, really? [/sarcasm]. Of course he can. And so can I and so can you. There, we're all happy.

I don't think Vrlitwhai would have had the time or inclination to do a complete razing of the Earth. Hell, it doesn't look like Bodolza did as complete a job as was thought before in SDF: Macross (See the UN Spacy Defense Grid thread)...

So if it was as bad as we saw briefly (though they went to Tokyo and that all of Japan looked erradicated on Admiral Hayase's screen... can't remember off the top of my head where Hikaru said they had checked... but its possible he was just going to the wrong places...

[Agent ONE]

A1, you know you wanna live in the M7 Universe and be a Fire Bomber groupie.

From now on, whenever I see a scene with teh Flower Girl, I will picture Agent ONE! instead.

Thats funny, I dream about ME also.

[dna]

A1, you know you wanna live in the M7 Universe and be a Fire Bomber groupie.

From now on, whenever I see a scene with teh Flower Girl, I will picture Agent ONE! instead.

Thats funny, I dream about ME also.

Who doesn't?

[ewilen]

Uxi: by "DYRL continuity" I just mean "the sequence of events in the DYRL version of the story".

I know what you meant. Should have put a wink.

Ohhhhh....

Isn't it a given that you need SDF Macross to put the events of DYRL into perspective?

I think so. But it's funny to realize how what we know from SDF Macross colors our interpretation of what we actually see in DYRL. If we didn't see SDF Macross, we might be more inclined to assume that yes, Britai did kill most of the human race before he switched sides. Similarly, based on SDFM, we accept that Max has somehow brought the Meltrandi over to our side by the end of the movie. This was elaborated in a scene that got cut; however, if all we know is what we see in the movie, we might guess that Max basically deserted to the enemy 2/3 of the way through the film.

[lebhead]

A1, you know you wanna live in the M7 Universe and be a Fire Bomber groupie.

From now on, whenever I see a scene with teh Flower Girl, I will picture Agent ONE! instead.

Thats funny, I dream about ME also.

Who doesn't?

i know i don't!

[Nightbat]

Who doesn't?

i know i don't!

Hey, narcism is okay to have

I am the most handsome guy I ever seen ()

but that's only because I have to look at this ugly head every morning in the mirror

It helps that I'm half asleep at that time btw

[Apollo Leader]

Just to add a few more thoughts to this discussion:

1) In DYRL, the Macross is a Meltlandi ship instead of a Supervision Army ship. Britai's fleet was probably chasing it when they discovered it had folded to Earth.

2) In the DYRL mode for the PS2 Macross game, the beginning stage of the game remains consistent with what was established with the Sega Saturn game... the Zentradi arrived at Earth before the Macross took off. Whether they attacked the Earth because the UN Spacy initiated the first offense or they just decided to wipe out all life just because the former Meltlandi ship was there has never been explained... maybe someone can ask Kawamori next time he attends a US con or Egan has the chance to ask him some questions.

[CAG]

Nightbat® Posted: Nov 4 2003, 10:29 PM

as for when Earth was destroyed in DYRL

Either Hikaru was lying to minmay about not knowing what happened

and Misa was off duty sleeping so deep it resembled a coma

and the footage of the game is truth

But this doesn't seem the case in DYRL

they both were quite surprised they were on earth (and what was left of it)

Then again...they never knew how the bombardment ended since they folded out of there

Bold is mine.

And I think that that seems to be the key point. They probably wouldn't have know if the attack was a localized one, or a planet killing bombardment.