Variable Fighter Development Chart

[Morpheus]

Hi all, I'm planning to make a chart for Variable Fighter development stage which will depict the evolution from VF-0 to the state-of-the-art VF-27. Most of the material are pulled directly from Mr.March M3 website, however I still need some help in developing this chart.

Currently this chart is for UN/NUNS only, although some of the valk in the series had been developed into enemy valk (such as the Varauta mecha or the Pheyos valkyrie).

I also added the hybrid line where VF technology meets other tech (such as Destroid or power armor).

note: I forgot that YF-21 is a hybrid of Quadlun Rau with a Valk, will be updated later.

Help and comments are appreciated.

[charger69]

Very good idea!

Looks like Gundam's Past charts, but IMO you should take a different approach on your tree, because on this actual chart almost every single variable fighter looks like derived from VF-1 which are not...

[sketchley]

Random thoughts:

VF-1 leads into VF-4 into VF-11 into VF-19

VA-3 leads into VA-14

VB-6 is pretty much a fighter on it's own (though it's correct that it's an outgrowth from the Monster.)

VF-17 leads into the VF-171 into the VF-171 EX

I did a translation of Great Mechanics.DX6 a while back, and they had a flow chart that had:

VF-19(?) into YF-24 Evolution into both VF-25 & VF-27, with the VF-22 also leading into the VF-27

But hey, don't take my word for it. Go with the chart in Great Mechanics.DX 4:

VF-0 -> VF-1 (Branches in two (a and b in the following)

a branch: VF-1 -> VF-3 -> VF-5 (sub branch to VF-9) ->VF-11 -> (branches recombine)

b branch: VF-1 -> VF-3000 -> VF-5000 -> (branches recombine)

VF-11/VF-5000 -> VF-11 & VF-14 competition (VF-11 wins, and from VF-11) -> VF-19 (YF-19) & VF-22 (YF-21) competition (neither is indicated as winning) -> VF-25

VF-17 -> VF-171 are a seperate chart.

[Sakura Shinguji]

I always imagined that the VF-11 leads on to the YF-19 and YF-21... Unfortunately, I wouldn't know if that is a fact or pure imagination. Nice work though!

Edited November 13, 2008 by Sakura Shinguji

[Mr March]

LOL I was just talking to azrael about this very same idea

The chart looks great. I can't wait to see more.

[Morpheus]

Thanks all.

sketchley

Thanks for the info, I'll updated the chart accordingly.

New chart, this time I also added the manufacturer.

Btw, Mylene VF-11MAXL is based on VF-16 right?

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Nice! Love it! Great work Morph!

Edited November 14, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[David Hingtgen]

No, Mylene's valk only has the ENGINES of the VF-16. Her valk is based on the VF-11MAXL, which is based on the VF-11 and the real-world F-16XL, thus the name.

Also, you really need to add a VF-19F/S in there. YF-19 vs VF-19F/S is 10x as different as YF-21 vs VF-22. (honestly, I'd eliminate the VF-19A from the chart and replace it with an F/S)

[Morpheus]

No, Mylene's valk only has the ENGINES of the VF-16. Her valk is based on the VF-11MAXL, which is based on the VF-11 and the real-world F-16XL, thus the name.

Also, you really need to add a VF-19F/S in there. YF-19 vs VF-19F/S is 10x as different as YF-21 vs VF-22. (honestly, I'd eliminate the VF-19A from the chart and replace it with an F/S)

AFAIK VF-19A is atmospheric variant and VF-19F/S is space variant with different wing design. I could put VF-19F/S to the chart (maybe branch from YF-19).

In the mean time I'll try the keep the other valk variant away from the chart otherwise is going to be very complicated.

BTW, if I want to put the VF-X3 Crusader and SDP-1 Stampede valkyrie to the chart where should I put it? Based on the images provided by Roy Focker they are all based on VF-1, so I could make two other descendent from VF-1.

[Sulendil Ang]

Just curious, Morpheus, but is there any direct relationship between VF-22 and VF-27? As far as I know, there's no connection between these two, except perhaps the cockpit design and the HMI.

Other than that, good job. I like the idea behind it. Keep it up!

Edited November 14, 2008 by Sulendil Ang

[Morpheus]

Just curious, Morpheus, but is there any direct relationship between VF-22 and VF-27? As far as I know, there's no connection between these two, except perhaps the cockpit design and the HMI.

Other than that, good job. I like the idea behind it. Keep it up!

Original development by the Macross Galaxy Variable Fighter Development Arsenal based on the YF-24. Although its combat performance easily exceeds the VF-25 Messiah, its high performance goes beyond what a flesh-and-blood body can withstand. Lineage from the silhouette of the VF-22 Sturmvogel II can be seen in the nose, hands, feet and the main wings are equipped with boosters which boast high mob

Well, I use the above reference for correlating VF-27 to VF-22, but I don't know if they will release more information about that. VF-27 is basically borrowed several stuff from YF-21 not VF-22 (BDI and BCS concept).

I also curios since VF-22 were developed by General Galaxy and Galaxy Fleet are privately owned colony fleet, do you think General Galaxy is the main sponsor behind Macross Galaxy?

[Knight26]

Didn't the compendium used to have a text version of this chart?

[Mr March]

IMO, the VF-19A Excalibur is fine since it's the first mass production model of the YF-19. Choosing the A also matches the other choices you've made, like the VF-0A, the VF-1A Valkyrie, and so forth.

You've probably already noticed this error already, but it should read YF-21 rather than YV-21.

Btw, I've revised line art for several valkyries. Since I've not yet made an update, later this evening I'll upload them and provide you with links so they can be included in your chart. The revised pictures are for the VF-0A, the VF-4, the VF-5000B, the VF-11B, the YF-21 and the VF-22.

[dizman]

I doubt its "officially" cannon but the SV-51 definately influenced the transformation of the VF-25 and 27, not sure how you could fit that in though. Nice work on what you have so far.

[Morpheus]

Mr.March

Thanks, I'll be waiting for the new lineart then.

dizman

Well, transformation almost look the same, but Kawamori clearly stated that VF-25 is a VF-1 which transform like VF-19.

Updated chart.

Corrected some spelling, I also added Zentraedi and Varauta line for their variable fighter series. I also added the VAB-2 and VF-X-11 (which became the basis for Zentraedi EVA Feios). I also moved the VF-171EX to Macross Frontier box, since I think that variant is unique to Frontier Fleet and produced by LAI).

[Zinjo]

No, Mylene's valk only has the ENGINES of the VF-16. Her valk is based on the VF-11MAXL, which is based on the VF-11 and the real-world F-16XL, thus the name.

I think you mean the F-16MAXL (Maximum Lift).

Also, you really need to add a VF-19F/S in there. YF-19 vs VF-19F/S is 10x as different as YF-21 vs VF-22. (honestly, I'd eliminate the VF-19A from the chart and replace it with an F/S)

I disagree. The VF-19A has been used by Spacy, but most likely predominately used by the UNAF. The VF-19F/S are space optimized for the stellar fleet and as already stated their fixed wings reflect that.

I doubt its "officially" cannon but the SV-51 definately influenced the transformation of the VF-25 and 27, not sure how you could fit that in though. Nice work on what you have so far.

Yes, the SV-51 has influenced the final design of the VF-27 particularly with the vectored thrust vanes that make up its feet.

[David Hingtgen]

Um, no. There is no such thing as an F-16MAXL. F-16XL---2 were built, a single-seater and a twin-seater.

[Zinjo]

Um, no. There is no such thing as an F-16MAXL. F-16XL---2 were built, a single-seater and a twin-seater.

You are correct, my bad...

[Mr March]

New chart is looking great. Sorry about the long wait in getting back to you, I was busy. I sent you the pics in a PM.

[Morpheus]

Mr.March

Thanks for the link, I've updated the chart with the new lineart

So anyone else got idea on what else I should add or change on the chart?

[sketchley]

Oops. Made an error here:

a branch: VF-1 -> VF-3 -> VF-5 (sub branch to VF-9) ->VF-11 -> (branches recombine)

That should be VF-1 -> VF-4 -> VF-5.

There's no VF-3.

Also, the VF-5000 AND VF-5 both lead into the competion. Meaning that they lead into both the VF-11 AND VF-14.

The VF-9 does NOT lead into anything.

The Sv-51 also appears, but it leads into a question mark.

You need to add the Gluag. As in: Gluag > Neo-Gluag > Variable Gluag (images are the correct order; names are not.)

You have the wrong line art for the VF-14. Try http://unsd.macrossroleplay.org/vf-14.html

Edited November 15, 2008 by sketchley

[Mr March]

Mr.March

Thanks for the link, I've updated the chart with the new lineart

So anyone else got idea on what else I should add or change on the chart?

You're welcome. It's looks good.

I'm not sure how you want to fit the VF-14 Vampire (M3 Version) in there. Kawamori has called it the "finalized design" for the VF-14 Vampire, but maybe you could put them both side by side since technically both designs are canon. I've got it included on my website in the VF-14 Vampire (M3 Version).

There is a VF-X-3. Speaking of which, one question I do have is how do all the miscellaneous valkyries fit into the chart? Like the following:

VF-X-2

VF-X-3

VF-5

VF-6

VF-7

VF-15

VF-16

And could the VF-X-4 fit in there somewhere, because we have line art for it? Perhaps these miscellaneous variable fighters aren't that important and would just fill the chart with blank silhouettes that don't add anything. It was just a thought. But I think the VF-X-4 should be included simply because we see Hikaru playing with a model of it in SDF Macross.

[sketchley]

If I remember correctly, the VF-X-4 (or VFX-4) is a fully transformable* VF that was underdevelopment when the Zentraedi destroyed Earth. As most of the people involved in the project were lost at the same time, the project was restarted with what little info there was on the SDF-1. The result of those efforts being the VF-4.

* Lineart with SK scribbles pointing out leg and arm parts. In short, the parts are in the same places as the VF-4.

[Morpheus]

sketchley

Thanks, I made the correction. I'm wondering since Chronicles shows VF-5000 as the next line for VF-4, should we add this as well? Evolution of SV-51? Hmm, maybe into something that we never seen before (possible for future Macross series? )

Mr March

Done, I put both VF-X-1 and VF-X-4 to the chart.

About the misc valk, maybe we just leave them out the chart unless their contribution to the valk development is crucial such as VF-5 which sketchley mentioned is listed on DX.4.

Chart updated, this time I put both version of VF-14 into one box. Macross 7 PLUS shows the black one (Zentraedi variant?), which I suspect became the basis of Varauta Fz-103, while the M3 version is probably the standard version.

Chart is getting crowded, I'll try to organize it.

[sketchley]

Variable Gluag and Neo-Glaug are still mixed up. (the names are right for the image, but the order is mixed up)

Re: VF-5000

Egan Loo actually posted somewhere in MW regarding this. Basically, the VF-5000 is not the main UN Spacy fighter, but the main fighter of a different branch of the UN Armed Forces.

Edited November 15, 2008 by sketchley

[Mr March]

Weird. I've re-categorized the VF-X-4 into the mecha section. Must have got confused with the VF-X, which was non-variable.

Although Kawamori had drawn the Neo Glaug first and then drawn the Variable Glaug based upon that Neo Glaug, as I understand it the events of M3 video game take place BEFORE the events of the Macross Plus video game. Thus in-universe chronology goes Variable Glaug followed by the Neo Glaug.

I made a little FAQ entry included on the M3 for the VF-4/VF-5000 issue as I understood it. It's as follows:

Q: Why is there an apparent contradiction between the VF-4 Lightining III and the VF-5000 Star Mirage for the role of the main variable fighter of the UN Forces?

A: The book This Is Animation Special Macross Plus states the VF-4 Lightning III was intended to be the main variable fighter of all branches of the UN Forces from 2020 onward. However, the VF-5000 Star Mirage was a less expensive option that was more maneuverable in an atmosphere than the VF-4 Lightining III. Thus several branches of the UN Forces complemented or replaced their main fighter with the VF-5000 Star Mirage rather than the VF-4 Lightning III. Technically, the VF-4 Lightning III was never officially replaced as main variable fighter until the UN Spacy began adopting the VF-11 Thunderbolt in 2030. Other branches of the UN Forces likely followed suit after 2030.

Morpheus

Yeah, I realized that while I was typing. The other valkyries will just clutter the chart up and since they have little-to-no information, there's not point in adding them.

The only problem is the black arrow over top the written "VF-14". I like that you've included both VF-14 versions; it looks great. Also, is it possible to place the red arrows on the top layer of the chart? Some of the red arrows are copied over by the black lines/black borders and look awkward.

This is getting close to complete. Well done!

Edited November 15, 2008 by Mr March

[Morpheus]

Done

Should I　put the SDP-1 Stampede valkyrie and the VF-3 Crusader to the chart? (is it canon?)

[Mr March]

I think the SDP-1 Stampede is more a variant of the VF-1. Since the chart doesn't include stuff like the VF-1D/J/S, Supers/Strikes, VT-1 Ostrich and VE-1 Elint, it doesn't make much sense to include the SDP-1 Stampede either.

VF-3 Star Crusader sounds like another variable craft that could be included, but I'm not sure where.

[azrael]

Don't bother with variants. It would only confuse the issue.

The VF-3 Star Crusader doesn't fall within the within the Studio Nue continuity so I would set that aside for later.

And for the VF-14, I would just use the M3 version.

[sketchley]

(...)

Although Kawamori had drawn the Neo Glaug first and then drawn the Variable Glaug based upon that Neo Glaug, as I understand it the events of M3 video game take place BEFORE the events of the Macross Plus video game. Thus in-universe chronology goes Variable Glaug followed by the Neo Glaug.

(...)

Ga! I'm mixing up real world design and in-world design dates.

Anyhow, you may want to add the VA-3M. It's true that it is a varient, but given the radical changes between it and the VA-3.

Just curious, are you going to add the recon and trainer variants? Perhaps as seperate lines from the main chart.

Ex:

Recon: VEFR-1 Electronic Warfare Valkyrie ("Funny Chinese") > VE-1 Elint Valkyrie > VF-11 Radar Dome Equipped Super Parts > VF-17 Radar Dome Equipped Type > RVF-171 > RVF-25 Messiah

Trainer: VF-0B (VF-0D?) > VF-1D > VT-1 Ostrich > VF-5000T-G > VF-11D > VF-17T

[Sulendil Ang]

Nicely done, Morpheus! It may looked a bit crowded, but it didn't really affect the chart much.

A question, through: why no picture for VF-X-11? I thought March's M3 has at least 2 pictures of them.

sketchley: IMHO, I think the chart is too crowded to add variants into it without further enlarging the chart. Besides, this is a development chart, not a picture list of VF, so I don't think there's a need to include the variants into the chart. Just my 2 cents.

[sketchley]

Technically, the VEFR, VE & RVF are different from the VF...

[Morpheus]

Sulendil Ang

Yup, I just found that one, however there are two VF-X-11 version, one with canard and the other without. So maybe later I'll replaced it with Max version of VF-X-11.

Hmm, should I make a new chart showing ALL the valk variant with their add-on FAST pack?

[Sulendil Ang]

sketchley: True. So can I use 'variable plane' to imply all those transformable planes in Macross? Much easier for me.

But still, that didn't change my point about the whole development chart: unless needed, I don't think we should include all planes (and its variants) we have seen in the series into the chart.

Morpheus: There's two option you can consider:

1. Make the chart larger to incorporate those planes. That will avoid the problem of overcrowd, although the chart will be much, much bigger than what you (or me) think is desirable.

2. Make a separate charts, showing the variants of VF, which involves more job from your side. I personally prefer this one.

3. Don't give a damn, stress that you're making development chart, not a gallery of variable vehicles, and continue with your project. Not nice, but it's your freedom to do so.

Hey, that's 3 options, you cheater!

[sketchley]

Erm... seen Macross Chronicle Technical Sheet 1A reverse side?

I see it coming down to one of two things:

a) all types of variable machines (but not necessarily all possible varients)

b) seperate charts for the VF, VT, VE, VA, and VB types of variable machines.