Why are Macross figs so expensive?

[Queen Kittan]

I was in a forbidden planet in Dublin, Ireland a while back and they had the old Yamato Valkyries for about €36. FP can be pricey on some things, but has decent deals on others. It sems the figs in general are quite expensive.

I know inflation and all that, but the cost still doesn't seem to work out if you compare it to Takara's Transformers.

It's frustrating as I'd like to be able to afford a bunch of transforming valkyries but it's too expensive.

[polidread]

i think Transformers have a wider fanbase, thus larger distribution and the overall costs of production are spread out thinner that way.

besides Variable Fighters generally have wilder more complicated transformations requiring better engineering and materials, plus detailing / painting

[theplasticwerks]

I was in a forbidden planet in Dublin, Ireland a while back and they had the old Yamato Valkyries for about €36. FP can be pricey on some things, but has decent deals on others. It sems the figs in general are quite expensive.

I know inflation and all that, but the cost still doesn't seem to work out if you compare it to Takara's Transformers.

It's frustrating as I'd like to be able to afford a bunch of transforming valkyries but it's too expensive.

The fact that fans were willing to pay Yamato's prices from the beginning hasen't helped much

Edited November 6, 2008 by theplasticwerks

[VFTF1]

I was in a forbidden planet in Dublin, Ireland a while back and they had the old Yamato Valkyries for about €36. FP can be pricey on some things, but has decent deals on others. It sems the figs in general are quite expensive.

I know inflation and all that, but the cost still doesn't seem to work out if you compare it to Takara's Transformers.

It's frustrating as I'd like to be able to afford a bunch of transforming valkyries but it's too expensive.

Wait.

The "old" Yamato Valkyries for 36 Euro?

Um... that's ...like...for free practically.

Why is this a complaint?

As to the general question: To compare Yamato to Transformers is just wildly off the mark. Yamato Valkyrie are far far far more expensive to design, far more detailed, far more complex...

Compare Yamatos to Masterpiece Transformers at least - then things begin to even out a bit.

Generally, I do not agree that Yamatos are horribly over priced. They are basically priced at what a high-end high-detail figure for a niche market from a small company should cost.

Pete

[Queen Kittan]

Maybe it was the Toynami ones I saw then. These ones sure as hell weren't higher quality than Takara Transformers or any more complicated looking.

[Valkyrie addict]

because dumbasses like us keep taking Yamato's crazy prices up our asses with pleasure...

you can't tell me the fold booster with FAST pack attachments for the YF-19 and NON-TRANSFORMING-non-tampoed-non-weathered destroid are horribly overpriced

[VFTF1]

Maybe it was the Toynami ones I saw then. These ones sure as hell weren't higher quality than Takara Transformers or any more complicated looking.

Then you definitely didn't see any Yamatos In fact, I'm wondering what it is you saw at that price... 1/100 Toynamis maybe? Little Valks the size of a deluxe Transformer? Those are indeed utter tosh. But even the "masterpiece" Toynamis are ALSO utter tosh compared to Yamato

But hopefully you will therefore admit that your question is somewhat off base; since the question of "why is this more expensive than a Transformer" answers itself when you actually compare a real Yamato to a Transformer

Pete

[ff95gj]

because dumbasses like us keep taking Yamato's crazy prices up our asses with pleasure...

you can't tell me the fold booster with FAST pack attachments for the YF-19 and NON-TRANSFORMING-non-tampoed-non-weathered destroid are horribly overpriced

Once you are used to pay for a dozen of 1/48 valkyries, the 1/60 destroid are not that bad thereafter.

Before I started collecting 1/48 VF-1's, I can't imagine myself paying that much for a destroid.

Now I don't blink to pay. And I don't have any hesitation to pay for all 4! Just hesitating if I should get the alt colors.

I don't feel like buying toys, they are all collectors' item.

So, I am part of the reason why the stuffs are selling this expensive.

[boota]

Once you are used to pay for a dozen of 1/48 valkyries, the 1/60 destroid are not that bad thereafter.

Before I started collecting 1/48 VF-1's, I can't imagine myself paying that much for a destroid.

Now I don't blink to pay. And I don't have any hesitation to pay for all 4! Just hesitating if I should get the alt colors.

I don't feel like buying toys, they are all collectors' item.

So, I am part of the reason why the stuffs are selling this expensive.

Not bad thereafter... wow, how true... truth be told, I was like you but I decided to stop telling myself it's okay to pay for these prices... that it's okay to pay expensive shipping on top of it... I stop telling myself it's okay after I take them out of the box to enjoy them but find that they are somehow not really worth the time, money and effort because their quality is lacking.

Here's a secret for you - what you paid, took corporations like Yamato less than 10% in retail price to make for each one. hehehe! And we paid for them as though it's for our children's education.

[big F]

Probably was the Toynami ones as Forbiden Planet in London had quite a lot a few months ago that they were trying to get rid of.

[ff95gj]

Not bad thereafter... wow, how true... truth be told, I was like you but I decided to stop telling myself it's okay to pay for these prices... that it's okay to pay expensive shipping on top of it... I stop telling myself it's okay after I take them out of the box to enjoy them but find that they are somehow not really worth the time, money and effort because their quality is lacking.

Here's a secret for you - what you paid, took corporations like Yamato less than 10% in retail price to make for each one. hehehe! And we paid for them as though it's for our children's education.

I don't think they are lacking in quality though... but can't argue that the cost certainly wouldn't be close enough to how much we pay. Worht it or not... It really depends. I am thirty-something, so it is like buying back and realizing childhood memory. (the toy market is now selling the adults more than the kids. cuz we are willing to pay a lot on toys for ourselves but not for kids!)

I am more lucky that I don't need to pay shipping (most of the times). "Used to pay shipping" is also something that caused the things so expensive. When you are used to paying shipping, you would buy like crazy in a local shop because "you don't need to pay shopping this time".

Although I buy most of my stuffs in local shops, I ordered a few items through the web, so I know the mentality!

[boota]

Toy shops where you are, are not really helping the situation as far as cheaper prices goes... there are always something to be factored in into the price tag... What you can probably benefit from local shops is that you could return the toy if it was crap... but usually, you can't do that because, the retailer will tell you no.

We are partly to blame for how these things are charged... we're turning into our folks' age but we don't inherit their will power to hang onto our money longer... or steel ourselves against over-indulgence... for watever reasons... and these toy companies are taking full advantage of it... Fair enough, but the quality of these things must be worth the price with no room for doubts like collectors asking, "Why are Macross figs so expensive?" to themselves and starting threads like these.

I seriously don't remember collectible toys back in the day that are so... breakable. Sure they weren't so articulated or embellish with so much details... and they probably cost just as much as today's money if you factor in the inflation... but let's not kid ourselves. Heheh!

[VFTF1]

Well, maybe I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who runs a business, so my "radar" works a bit different but:

a) 10% of the price going to production costs is a fair guess; although you have to understand that this doesn't mean that the other 90% of the price is arbitrary. Think about the fact that this stuff has to get transported, taxed, has to meet a number of legal standards of safety and what not, and that ultimately the retailer is the one who takes the risk of stocking the thing so that you can THINK about buying it - MAYBE.

b) Hasbro/Takara Transformers, as most people know, are cheap to produce, but the biggest cost is engineering them and creating original moulds. Considering the pace with which Yamato is bringing out new moulds and re-engineering existing stuff to make it better (we're now on their 3rd version of a VF1 variable valkyrie), the costs of R&D at Yamato are probably huge. These costs are ON TOP OF that 10% production cost.

c) Consider also, that unlike Hasbro/Takara and even Bandai (for most of their products), Yamato is working with a property that, like it or not (I don't like it), has difficulty in terms of its' marketability outside of Japan due to long standing legal problems wrought by Hellish Goons. This severly limits their potential market and therefore they don't have the option of just "dumping" unsold product in some other country in the hopes that it will clear. They have to sell most of their stuff in Japan or bow out.

d) If you take a look at other high-end brands like Soul of Chogokin or Masterpiece Transformers, you will notice that the pricing on those is not significantly different from Yamato's valkyrie. Yet Takara-Tomy and Bandai are much bigger companies that can take advantage of the economies of scale and international marketing to an extent that Yamato can't.

So - I think the pricing has very little to do with consumers being "stupidly willing" to "pay that much." Or, another way of putting it: people are willing to pay that much because in their gutt they probably understand all of the above, even if they don't like to articulate it.

One can hope that technology will progress to the point where such high end stuff will start to be standard and the costs of producing it will fall and fall - sure - and we should realize that this has already happened to some extent.

If someone wanted to produce the VF-1 1/60 V.2 10 years ago, I'm sure they COULD HAVE. But how much would it have cost? Given the lack of CADs and other cutting edge technologies, the thing would have to retail for about 2,000 USD I would guess.

Just look at Studio Half Eye - it is obvious that high high hiiiigh end stuff is possible - and some people have the money to go for it: but most of us can only afford mass produced products.

We should be happy that Yamato has come along and demonstrated that it is possible to mass produce something as well done and beautiful as their product.

In short: with all due respect, but I think the subject should read: Thank Goodness Macross Figures Are So Cheap.

because they are CHEAP if you factor in all of the above.

Pete

[wizartar]

I was in a forbidden planet in Dublin, Ireland a while back and they had the old Yamato Valkyries for about €36. FP can be pricey on some things, but has decent deals on others. It sems the figs in general are quite expensive.

I know inflation and all that, but the cost still doesn't seem to work out if you compare it to Takara's Transformers.

It's frustrating as I'd like to be able to afford a bunch of transforming valkyries but it's too expensive.

I found it was easier to just import directly from Japan, so long as you keep the order including postage under €150 you won't pay any import duty. If you go over you'll be hit by the import tax + €5 handing charge which needs to be pay when they deliver the package. That way you can get all the different types and not just what FP are carrying.

[ff95gj]

Very well said... I was only venting as a consumer. I know besides production cost, there are the R&D, transportation, warehouse, returns reserve, legal costs, LICENSE FEE, etc etc.

And on top of that, margins for distributors and retailors.

It is still expensive, just that not really that much getting into the vault of Yamato I persume. (should check their annual report later)

So the right thing to do, is to get everyone you know addicted with Yamato Macross toys. Then we can talk about economic of scale and buy it cheaper.

Well, maybe I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who runs a business, so my "radar" works a bit different but:

a) 10% of the price going to production costs is a fair guess; although you have to understand that this doesn't mean that the other 90% of the price is arbitrary. Think about the fact that this stuff has to get transported, taxed, has to meet a number of legal standards of safety and what not, and that ultimately the retailer is the one who takes the risk of stocking the thing so that you can THINK about buying it - MAYBE.

b) Hasbro/Takara Transformers, as most people know, are cheap to produce, but the biggest cost is engineering them and creating original moulds. Considering the pace with which Yamato is bringing out new moulds and re-engineering existing stuff to make it better (we're now on their 3rd version of a VF1 variable valkyrie), the costs of R&D at Yamato are probably huge. These costs are ON TOP OF that 10% production cost.

c) Consider also, that unlike Hasbro/Takara and even Bandai (for most of their products), Yamato is working with a property that, like it or not (I don't like it), has difficulty in terms of its' marketability outside of Japan due to long standing legal problems wrought by Hellish Goons. This severly limits their potential market and therefore they don't have the option of just "dumping" unsold product in some other country in the hopes that it will clear. They have to sell most of their stuff in Japan or bow out.

d) If you take a look at other high-end brands like Soul of Chogokin or Masterpiece Transformers, you will notice that the pricing on those is not significantly different from Yamato's valkyrie. Yet Takara-Tomy and Bandai are much bigger companies that can take advantage of the economies of scale and international marketing to an extent that Yamato can't.

So - I think the pricing has very little to do with consumers being "stupidly willing" to "pay that much." Or, another way of putting it: people are willing to pay that much because in their gutt they probably understand all of the above, even if they don't like to articulate it.

One can hope that technology will progress to the point where such high end stuff will start to be standard and the costs of producing it will fall and fall - sure - and we should realize that this has already happened to some extent.

If someone wanted to produce the VF-1 1/60 V.2 10 years ago, I'm sure they COULD HAVE. But how much would it have cost? Given the lack of CADs and other cutting edge technologies, the thing would have to retail for about 2,000 USD I would guess.

Just look at Studio Half Eye - it is obvious that high high hiiiigh end stuff is possible - and some people have the money to go for it: but most of us can only afford mass produced products.

We should be happy that Yamato has come along and demonstrated that it is possible to mass produce something as well done and beautiful as their product.

In short: with all due respect, but I think the subject should read: Thank Goodness Macross Figures Are So Cheap.

because they are CHEAP if you factor in all of the above.

Pete

[sqidd]

Why are Macross figs so expensive?

Economics 101. Supply and Demand.

Supply and Demand Theory

It's frustrating as I'd like to be able to afford a bunch of transforming valkyries but it's too expensive.

Because you can’t afford something doesn’t make it “Too expensive”. If it cost more than what it was worth then it would be too expensive. And obviously it doesn’t cost more than it’s worth. If that was true everyone on this board wouldn’t be buying them. Something is worth as much as someone will pay for it.

Don’t “cheapen” the product because you can’t afford to buy one. Is a Ferrari Enzo “Too expensive”? It’s more than I can afford, but I would never call it too expensive. And they are clearly not too expensive because every one they have ever made sold instantly.

[Valkyrie addict]

so I guess the weathered 1/48 VF-1S and Max VF-1A don't fall in this category?!

[sqidd]

so I guess the weathered 1/48 VF-1S and Max VF-1A don't fall in this category?!

I am assuming by “this category” you mean do I think that the current pricing on the Weathered Roy and Max is too high?

Apparently the pricing on the Roy is not too high because they are all selling for what people are asking for them. I did just recently see someone post one up on feeBay for $500 BIN and it didn’t sell though. I offered them $400 and they wouldn’t take it. So right at this exact moment, because that one Roy didn’t get snatched up on feeBay you could say that one was “Too Expensive”. But only a fool allows the one exception to disprove the rule. If you were to ask me if I thought that they were “expensive” I would say yes. Even at $300 they are “expensive”. But “expensive” and “To Expensive” have two completely different meanings.

I have no idea how to classify the Max because I have not seen any pricing on them and none have shown up on the auction market from what I have seen. It’s probably fair to say that when they first get released they will be $400-500 and over time they will drop down to the level of a Low Vis 1. They will probably go for less money faster than the Roy too, I think I read there will be more of them. If there are not a lot more of them they will probably follow the same trend as the Roy has. You can be sure that a lot of people saw dollar signs in their eyes for the Max release though. I am sure there will be a lot of them available in the secondary market right away. And they will probably be asking a lot of money for them. But as long as people are buying them they are worth exactly what they sold for.

I personally am hoping that the crappy economy forces some Roy’s and some Max’s up for sale in a year or two and maybe I can pick them up for $300-400. I would pay $400 for a Roy but I doubt I would go over $300 for a Max. And I did not set those two price points based on them being “To Expensive”. It’s simply more than I am willing to spend on them. And if someone is willing to pay more then me, than what I am willing to pay is irrelevant because I am not a factor.

If you spend your entire life being mad at things you can’t afford or people who can you are going to have a pretty crappy life. You will always aspire to want more than you do and there will always be a lot of people with way more money than we have………combined. I have some friends that have $1M cars and $20M houses. Am I jelious? Hell yes. Do I wish I had all that stuff and money? Hell yes. Does any of it make me upset for one second? No, because that would be stupid.

[boota]

If not wanting to afford these things "cheapen" the product we want, we should all do it more often! Cheap prices FTW!

[VFTF1]

If not wanting to afford these things "cheapen" the product we want, we should all do it more often! Cheap prices FTW! happy.gif

Allow me to introduce you to Economics 102:

If you "cheapen" the product by not wanting it, you will send the following signal to the market:

1) Low price is more important than high quality and detail

2) Stop spending so much time and effort on making these anime-precise perfect transformation things and give me some Transformers which are imprecise but at least cheap

3) If you insist on making high quality variable Macross fighters, don't expect to make any profit off of it.

Another point:

IF the price of Macross merchandise is really HIGHER than what it could be, do realize that this means EXCESS PROFITS available in this market.

This is turn serves as a signal to other potential producers and firms to ENTER such a lucrative market.

In doing so, they increase aggregate supply.

This brings prices down.

This is already happening. The version 2 1/60 VF-1 is priced lower than the 1/48s and it includes the same tough engineering, and comes with Super and Strike Parts.

Also, Bandai put up quite a fight to get the Frontier license.

Toynami is putting up a fight state side.

If these things were selling for 10 cents a pop because everyone decided that they were not going to by unless the price was way lower - then firms would STOP TRYING TO PRODUCE HIGH QUALITY MACROSS GOODS.

In the short run: this means each individual has to decide whether they like the market price or not. This is a valuation that different people will make differently.

But to "wish" for things like a lower price is not necessarily in your best interest - especially if it comes at the cost of excess profits which draw more firms into the market and mean more competition, more effort in production technique and engineering and do ultimately translate into more value for the consumer in the form of lower prices and or higher quality.

Pete

[boota]

Thanks for the education... I'll take your "I don't like the current market price" for lack of the... "not that there is anything to dislike, the work put out just don't reflect the asking price."

Sorry man, you failed to realize that none of the current major players for the Macross anime toys to date has ever made any quality items since 1999. But thanks though, it's eye opening to see how far you would go to convince yourselves otherwise.

[VFTF1]

you failed to realize that none of the current major players for the Macross anime toys to date has ever made any quality items since 1999

Well - when talking about prices, and for that matter economics, valuation and all value-terms like "quality item" or "expensive" are subjective designations. There is no point in trying to convince someone who thinks Macross is too expensive that it's not - because "expensive" is in the wallet of the beholder, so to speak.

My point was to try and demonstrate something entirely different:

If you run a toy production company, and you see these Yamato people making these Macross variable fighters and selling them for around 200 USD each, and you - running a toy company, knowing how much R& D costs, knowing how much productions costs - figure to yourself - dag - I KNOW that I could make those things for 25 cents per item - or "dag, I know I could make those things for 20 USD per item" - basically; you know you could make those things relatively cheap - then, seeing the prices for which they are selling you would conclude that there's plent of money to be made in it - and you would enter the market.

Profits - especially extreme "unwarranted" or "too high" profits for companies actually serve customers in the long run - because whenever a market exists with a sufficiently high profit margin - this attracts other firms to enter the market in the hopes of taking a part of that profit.

This abstracts completely from whether one individual considers something "too expensive or not" and of course it would be pointless for me to try to "convince" people that Macross isn't expensive.

my point is simply to say that this is not necessarily a bad thing for us as fans - in the long run - for the reasons given above.

Pete

[Valkyrie addict]

in the end....business is business

we have very few companies supplying us with Macross items and they don't compete each other and the consumer continues to buy their products, if this companies have seen that their product will see at the price they stablish as a benchmark when they started producing their first Macross items they have no reason to change

monkey see, monkey do...

either way, we the consumer are stuck with ugly chunky or exploding toys that costs more than they should...I can pay for each an every one of this toys easily but I don't want too, cause I keep feeling getting ripped off more and more

[sqidd]

There is no point in trying to convince someone who thinks Macross is too expensive that it's not - because "expensive" is in the wallet of the beholder, so to speak.

Not necessarily. I eluded to this in my original post. There is a massive difference between “To Expensive” and “Expensive”.

“Expensive” is by all means something that is in the wallet of the beholder (nice way of putting that by the way).

“To Expensive” is defined by the market. Not one person.

I don’t know why this is such a pet peeve of mine, maybe it’s because I have been in retail for most of my working life in one form or another and I have owned a few businesses. But it drives me absolutely insane when people refer to things as “To Expensive”. Something being “To Expensive” is not up to the individual person. They don’t have the right to make that statement. I actually find it very self centered and arrogant. Where does such a person get off thinking that their single opinion trumps the opinion of the entire market for that item?

[VFTF1]

I don’t know why this is such a pet peeve of mine, maybe it’s because I have been in retail for most of my working life in one form or another and I have owned a few businesses. But it drives me absolutely insane when people refer to things as “To Expensive”. Something being “To Expensive” is not up to the individual person. They don’t have the right to make that statement. I actually find it very self centered and arrogant. Where does such a person get off thinking that their single opinion trumps the opinion of the entire market for that item?

I have very similar sentiments to yours. People who complain that something in the market is "too expensive" are like Don Quixote - fighting with windmills. If there was a cheaper way of providing the thing - you bet someone would be providing it cheaper.

But what really steams me - since I run a retail business - is people who complain and complain and complain about prices and try to hassel with you. This doesn't happen in the USA too much - at least I never saw it happen that much; but in Poland, everybody and their grandmother thinks that a price tag is actually just an offer to negotiate. It's not. Retailers usually work hard to make their prices as low as possible and as attractive to the consumer as possible. So, for somebody to come along and start to haggel and negotiate...

It just reminds me of Borat - when he comes into that hotel in New York City; the guy says a room for the night will cost 187 USD, and Borat spits in his hand, holds it out and say "HUNDRED FORTY!"

"Nooo...187" I love that reaction - and I love that part because it was so true of Eastern Europeans (before anybody accuses me, I am one - so I can talk smack about my own people ) ... And it's understandable because under communism, commerce was illegal so everything was under the table and there were no open, transparent market prices...

Anyways... it's one thing to say -as all of us do about Macross - MAN - THESE THINGS COST ALOT! DAGG! MY WALLET FEELS THE PAIN...

But it's another thing to say that they cost too much; as if it were some evil cospiracy.

Ultimately - no one is forcing anybody to buy these things at these prices.

Pete

[miriya]

Sorry. I have not read through this thread but...

I can say one thing for sure....

I wish the macross collectable figures (Yamato, Bandai, etc...) did not cost so much.

A transformer at Toys R Us may cost $10 and be a pretty cool toy but the detail, features and beauty of a 1/48 Yamato valk is at least 10 times cooler and I know that it is not the economic reason, yet it is at least 10 times more money. Economies of scale and demographics of course are probably major factors in the prices.

Regardless of the "too expensive (for my wallet)" cost of the Macross collectibles, I am thrilled that there are so many fantastic macross itmes being made. Macross is not mainstream and I am glad that there is even this much and more in the horizon.

As a macross fan who's major involvment in macross obsession is figure collecting (for display and play), and who's income is laughable, I do wish that I could afford more of these items. Price has kept me from purchasing dozens upon dozens of figures that I wolud have otherwise (smaller cost) bought.

So maybe the questions should be weather the prices are becoming prohibitive for us collectors, enough for it to make an impact on demand? And at what threshold of price lowering would demand hit a significant enough increase to outweigh the lower costs?

[VFTF1]

As a macross fan who's major involvment in macross obsession is figure collecting (for display and play), and who's income is laughable, I do wish that I could afford more of these items. Price has kept me from purchasing dozens upon dozens of figures that I wolud have otherwise (smaller cost) bought.

So maybe the questions should be weather the prices are becoming prohibitive for us collectors, enough for it to make an impact on demand? And at what threshold of price lowering would demand hit a significant enough increase to outweigh the lower costs?

To the first point I would say this:

I too was initially put off by the extreme high prices of Yamato 1/48s when I first decided to go "valky hunting." Then I saw some pictures and was blown away by the detail and quality. Then, I started considering something else...

Yeah - those Transformers at 10 bucks a pop are pretty cheap. How many of 'em are on my shelf? 1...2...3....4....5....1000...1500...2000...2500...hmm.. that's a lot of Transformers.

I counted up the figures that I had simply "because" they were labelled Transformers and not because I liked them - this basically meant the entire Armada, Energon and Cybertron line. And guess what?

Turns out that instead of 3000 USD worth of crappy Transformers toy, I could have - lo and behold - a high quality top of the line Yamato Macross collection.

It's all about prioritizing - it's amazing to see how much money can go down the drain when "all you're doing is buying cheap stuff." It's kind of like with credit card fees - it's "just 50 bucks a month in interest here and 20 bucks in interest there" ... and suddenly you realize that it adds up fast.

So - the point is - if you really trully love and desire Yamato valkyrie - take the plunge: give up other stuff - I gave up Transformers that I didn't absolutely want and love, gave up smoking 10 packs a week (now I smoke probably one pack a month), gave up going to parties and drinking lots of vodka, gave up tons of other stuff which was not as important to me as this hobby.

It suddenly becomes quite affordable and possible when you just think about how to go about doing it.

As to the second question - are prices becoming prohibitive? I would say NO.

We're in a time of economic depression, radically fluctuating exchange rates, uncertainty and fear in the market place. We're in the midst of a banking panic. Nobody uses the words "bank run" or "bank panic" or "depression" because they fear that such language will only cause even more panic - and there's some legitimacy in that view - but the fact remains that we are in a depression and in the midst of a bank panic. All of this takes its' toll. Everything seems to be more expensive, and we seem to feel more fear about the future.

But looked at with some calm and distance - I owuld say that these high end items are becoming more affordable. The VF-1 1/60 version 2 is priced very very very nicely compared to the 1/48 when you consider that the 1/60 v.2 comes with super and strike parts. Soul of Chogokin figures are just getting more and more amazing by the day.

I think if you want to talk about prohibitive pricing - check out SHE's Perfect Transformation Getter Robo. That thing is my dream - it is one machine which actually manages to take on the original anime configuration of Getters 1, 2 and 3 - albeit with slight tweaks; but still an amazing job.

There is no way in holy heck that I will likely ever be able to afford that thing. There are many other beautiful pieces that are also out of my reach.

Yamato Macrosses are thankfully not amongst them.

They are in everyone's reach - I truly believe that. If you are able to spend 1000 dollars over the course of a year on Transformers, beer, smokes, a couple of dates - whatever - stuff that is ultimately dispensible - then you can spend that money on a few valkyries.

So - I'm an optimist. I think the Macross market is booming. I think we're fortunate because our favorite anime is getting the best attention possible: a company that has radical aspiration in terms of producing superb detailed products and prices that, while steep, are adequate to the product and within range of all of us.

Pete

[Scream Man]

ARe they to expensive?

Apprently not, I keep buying them...

[Valkyrie addict]

I understand both points which are very good by VFTF1 and sqidd

yes, a Yamato 1/48 VF-1 is a wonderful toy, 10x better than a 10 dollar transformer, so it costs 10x more...true

those 10 dollar transformers are cheap low quality toys that are mass produced not meant to last or be taken care off, so when I buy a 10 dollar toy and I manhandle it and it breaks... I know it's what I pay for

now here lies the problem with most of MW member, if I buy a toy that 10x better designed and expensive, and I'm not manhandling the thing and it breaks, should I complain about it? or just suck it up? oh, but there are spare available, but I must pay for them and also pay for shipping, ok, I get the spare and it's just as faulty, plus the added time of disassembling the toy, replacing the piece and putting it back together to break again, and so on and so on and so on

in the end, I didn't get what I payed for...so why am I paying such prices if I'm virtually getting a lottery ticket to see if my toy will not arrive with any missing parts, crooked markings, exploding shoulders, etc. and all I have left to do with it is shelf it so it will look pretty behind a piece of glass...as a consumer, this is not what I expect when I payed for it

so yes, for me, although I have the money I consider a breaking toy TOO EXPENSIVE

you will not buy a 150,000USD Ferrari F430 with a 450HP engine that pops a headgasket after 50km just because it has a design flaw but the rest is solid as a rock so I will keep it parked on my garage

Edited November 13, 2008 by Valkyrie addict

[m0n5t3r]

the term "TOO expensive" is relative...

relative to how much money you have.

if you have TOO much money to spend, nothing is TOO expensive for you...

- simple man's logic

Edited November 11, 2008 by m0n5t3r

[Black Valkyrie]

Thats why I`m very careful and think many times before when I buy a Macross item. Most of my VFs I bought them were on sale like 1/55 VF-1S 16$ (2003), 1/65 VF-19F 20$ (2002), 1/60 VF-1A CF ver.01 35$ (2004), all from HLJ. So I hope for the sales to come up again.

[mr.chogokin]

Highlighted for truth.

I know some of you here have deeper pockets... My salary is modest so here's hoping you people will be more quality stringent with your future purchases for everybody's sake - whoever you are.

Can't have room for a cottage industry like Macross to be filled with crap makers who are encouraged to make more variety of the toys, just because they think they can charge and profit outrageously.

[mr.chogokin]

Oops, nearly forgot to highlight the post.

[VFTF1]

The quality issue is of course dead on true.

But note that in the majority of polls taken on the subject, and dispite the griping, the majority of people who have taken part in the polls online here at MW testify that their Yamato valkyrie are perfect, not broken and QC issue free.

At the same time, just about each of us (so again the majority) have SOME kind of "horror story" to tell about something breaking and coming in with bad QC.

This is something that - to me - has a very simple albeit not painless explanation: Yamato is a young company. Nothing like what they do has ever been done before.

Part of what you're paying in that high price is the cost of experimentation - of Yamato being able to "try again."

Not everyone will like this - but that's how I see it. I am willing to fork out 220 USD for Ivanov - have a small piece crack, blame myself for not being delicate enough, and fork out another 220 USD for a perfect version. I am also willing to buy 2 VF-OAs and sure enough one of them has an exploding shoulder. My very first Yamato was the 1/72 VF-11B- the legs fell off right out of the box.

What did I do? I kept buying Yamato.

I did this because I want to encourage the company and its' team of engineers and designers. I think this encouragement has paid off: look at the 1/60 Macross Plus line. Look at the YF-19 - compare it to the old 1/72 YF-19. Think for a moment about a world without a Yamato 1/60 YF-19. Now I'm so used to my 19 and to the technical genius of Yamato, that I don't even give it a second thought: but at one point - this was revolutionary.

Think about the 1/48s. Right now, my 1/48s are "those long nosed, chicken handed, chunksters." Why? Because Yamato has brought out the V.2 1/60 V1.

But not so long ago, when all we had for comparison were the V.1 1/60 VF-1... the 1/48s were like the incarnation of divinty: it was hard to get your mind around the fact that the thing could actually be made; that perfect transformation could actually be done.

This is what we pay for. This is what we root for. This is factored into the price.

The analogy to the ferrari is not correct I think; because

1) cars have warranties so you can take them in for repairs, and you usually pay insurance on your car anyways

2) ferraris - even the wildly expensive ones - are mass produced on a much larger scale than Valkyrie

3) Ferraris are designed to work. Yamato has to design Valkyries to be anime accurate to some crazy Japanese guys' vision. Yamato COULD have just said "ah screw the anime" and done a "practical" version of the Valkyries, mass produced them, and taken money. They didn't. They chose to pursue a big dream and do something that no one in the market ever risked.

They are asking a high price for their risk - they are asking fans and Macross lovers to share the risk.

I do.

Pete

ps - I think Yamato should hire me as a PR guy sometimes I would do pretty well

[wvn111]

I can only think of two things why Yamato prices are high... First is the detail of the toy and next is the Engineering. Yamato is the first toy company to come up with a perfect transformation(no parts inter-change). So that's why we are paying for their Super engineers brain...