Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread IV *Read 1st Post*

[azrael]

Maybe it's the perspective, but why does Frontier's Gunship always look signifcantly longer?

And did we resolve this guns on the armored pack mess? I still beleive it's the tubes onthe arms and under the chest launchers..

Given the extra 171m that Battle Frontier is compared to Battle 7 or Battle 5, I would say it's slightly bigger to account for the extra length.

[Letigre]

It appears bigger than Battle Galaxy's Gunship as well.

[anime52k8]

I think it's just perspective. The two gunships look like the same design, just that one is angled towards the viewer so it looks shorter.

[RedWolf]

I'd say Battle Galaxy has a big fat gunship.

It in not the first time we see different gunship designs.

Take Battle 7 and Battle 13. They have different Gunships

[Rbstr]

I don't see any real difference between the three gun ships at the bottom in terms of style or shape.

The 13 looks like it's picture has been "squashed" so I won't comment on that

Frontier's does seem like it might be a bit longer. That's not really unexpected given that it was built quite a while after the 7. Little changes in big ships can sometimes be quite large.

[RedWolf]

Okay lets do this again.

Looking at this similarly posed pictures Battle Frontier's gunship is longer than Battle Galaxy's gunship.

[sketchley]

Erm... it's the same CG design.

(...)

Looking at this similarly posed pictures Battle Frontier's gunship is longer than Battle Galaxy's gunship.

[RedWolf]

Erm... it's the same CG design.

Checks again... Hey you're right.

[Rbstr]

The Galaxy's just looks shorter because the whole thing is turned more toward the viewer

[sketchley]

It would be cool if they were different, but as the series was produced on a tight schedule, I think they spent their time/budget on making the Macross Galaxy look different, and saved money by recycling the gun design (or, inversely, spending more time embelishing the design of the gun ship because they knew the CG model would be used more than once.)

In series, I guess the explanation would be that they were made at roughly the same time.

The main difference between the M7 and M13 designs (other than both the in-series and out-of-series passage of time), is that the M13 was designed with a main gun that is able to quickly charge up, and able to fire in a scatter-shot kind of attack (hit multiple targets on many different tangents, and not in one solid blast). You can see the game cut scene either in the game (VF-X2), or on the 20th Anniversary DVD.

Edited May 10, 2009 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

The way I see it with the similar armaments of Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy, Battle Galaxy is a spin off Battle Frontier's Battle class variant.

Much like with the VF-25 and VF-27 being based on the YF-24.

Given that Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy are definitely longer than other Battle class ships we've seen, I think more money and resources were put into them given the corporate sponsors of their respective fleets. These two fleets aren't sponsored by Three Star Heavy Industries like we've seen with Macross 7 and Macross 5.

[Morpheus]

The way I see it with the similar armaments of Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy, Battle Galaxy is a spin off Battle Frontier's Battle class variant.

Much like with the VF-25 and VF-27 being based on the YF-24.

Given that Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy are definitely longer than other Battle class ships we've seen, I think more money and resources were put into them given the corporate sponsors of their respective fleets. These two fleets aren't sponsored by Three Star Heavy Industries like we've seen with Macross 7 and Macross 5.

To add to the discussion, Battle 25 are built on Earth while Battle Galaxy are built on Eden, and also both fleet got their escort fleet in a completely different class and design.

It seems like Galaxy Fleet are focusing toward an aggressive colonization (with massive warships and strike craft) and also it was sponsored by a private organization.

[RedWolf]

I don't think Battle Galaxy was built the same time as Galaxy Mainland. For the fact Galaxy fleet left Eden a year or a couple of months after Macross 1 left Earth.

Macross Dynamite 7 has shown Macross 7 fleet is capable of building a Battle class.

Galaxy Mainland being an oversized industrial colony ship could had have Battle Galaxy built when they got the specs of the latest version of the Battle class.

Making their own spin-off of the design.

[azrael]

Keep in mind, because Galaxy was a hub for new technology and new ideas in science and they continually evolved as they traveled. It may have looked like a New Macross-class when it left Eden. Who's to say they didn't redesign the bridge of Battle Galaxy to allow for cybernetic interfaces and complete automation after they left Eden. Who's to say the Mainland didn't evolved into it's present state from a City-like ship.

[RedWolf]

Keep in mind, because Galaxy was a hub for new technology and new ideas in science and they continually evolved as they traveled. It may have looked like a New Macross-class when it left Eden. Who's to say they didn't redesign the bridge of Battle Galaxy to allow for cybernetic interfaces and complete automation after they left Eden. Who's to say the Mainland didn't evolved into it's present state from a City-like ship.

For one it isn't shaped like the City class.

The population likely lives inside those orbs.

Also the set up is like a Megaroad fleet with a single colony vessel with a number of escorts.

The function of Battle Galaxy is likely similar to Macross class ships escorting a Megaroad.

[sketchley]

For one it isn't shaped like the City class.(...)

How do we know that that is the City section? From what we've seen so far, the ship is most likely "Mainland 1". The producers have not specifically stated that the ship is, or is not anything but part of the Macross Galaxy Fleet. Nor have they explicitely stated that there is not a City ship a la those in M5, M7, and M25.

[RedWolf]

From what we've seen so far,

Exactly, from what we've seen so far on screen.

Also from Sheryl's reaction being excited by Frontier , Macross Galaxy is not like other fleets which has space, park vegetation or lakes.

The conditions are worse having slums and chemical factories.

Alto commented as if she's never been on a dome city before.

Macross Galaxy is described the 9th large-scale emigration fleet. While Macross Frontier is the 55th large scale emigration fleet and super long-distance immigration fleet . While Macross 7 and Macross 5 is described as long-distance immigration fleets.

Given the large scale moniker I postulate that Galaxy has a multi-million population like Frontier. Macross 7 and 5 aren't even reaching the multi million range. Just a couple of hundred thousand people.

So Mainland may have a capacity greater than City class ships. Perhaps even bigger than one. But we'll have to wait official statistics on Macross Galaxy Mainland.

Edited May 11, 2009 by RedWolf

[sketchley]

Corrections:

Macross Galaxy Fleet is the 9th Large-scale Emigration Fleet, the 21st New Macross Class Emigration Fleet, and the 51st Super Long Range Emigration Fleet.

Macross Frontier is a Large-scale Emigration Fleet (number presently unknown, but given the numbering differences elsewhere, most likely the 13th), the 21st New Macross Class Emigration Fleet, and the 55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet.

But yeah, I agree that we should wait until Macross Chronicle releases some more information.

[sketchley]

Going to correct my last post here...

from Macross Chronicles:

Worldguide 17a "Macross 7 Fleet"

scanlation: "Only a few New Macross Class where made, 13 in total. After that it was the Island Cluster class and so on."

Worldguide 18a "Macross Frontier Fleet"

scanlation: "the 25th fleet comes from the numbering of the Battle escort warship (25). This isn't a New Macross Class, but an Island Cluster class. It's the 55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet."

[RedWolf]

Fascinating in the span of what? Ten or eleven years they switch to a larger version of the City block.

Taking account the ones we know and on screen evidence.

Macross 1 -> 4 NMC (Macross 7 Episode 1)

Macross 3 -> 1? NMC

Macross 5 -> 3 NMC (Macross 7 Episode 23)

Macross 7 -> 1 NMC

Macross 9 -> 1 NMC (Macross Generation)

Macross 11 -> 1 NMC

Macross 13 -> 1? NMC

----------------------

12

Either Macross 3 or Macross 13 may have two Battle class and City class ships. Making up to 13 NMC vessels built.

edit: Macross Frontier footage of two NMC leaving simultaneously.

Edited May 11, 2009 by RedWolf

[sketchley]

Technology Sheet 03a "Emigrant ship"

scanlation:

"Macross Class: after SW1

Megaroad Class: from about 2012

New Macross Class: from about 2030

Island Cluster Class: from about 2040"

[azrael]

Corrections:

Macross Galaxy Fleet is the 9th Large-scale Emigration Fleet, the 21st New Macross Class Emigration Fleet, and the 51st Super Long Range Emigration Fleet.

Macross Frontier is a Large-scale Emigration Fleet (number presently unknown, but given the numbering differences elsewhere, most likely the 13th), the 25th New Macross Class Emigration Fleet, and the 55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet.

But yeah, I agree that we should wait until Macross Chronicle releases some more information.

Fixed.

[Mr March]

Okay, I want to collect what I've read so far and make sure I have it right. So there are three different fleet designations:

Large-Scale Emigration Fleet

New Macross Class Emigration Fleet

Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet

A given fleet can be 1, 2 or all 3 of these designations. Is that correct?

As an aside to the big colony fleets, there are also:

Large-Scale Research Fleets, like the 117th fleet that fell to the Vajra in Macross Frontier

Close-Range Colonization Fleets, which colonize within 100 light years of the Solar System

Lastly, there are the ship classes:

Macross Class, Super Dimension Fortress

Megaroad Class Super-Long Range Colonization Ship

New Macross Class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + City Class Ship (such as City 7)

Island Cluster Class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + Island Class Ships (such as Island 1 + others)

The New Macross Class ships (Battle + City) only amounted to 13 ships. The Island Cluster Class ships (Battle + Islands) are what where made later and the New Macross Class ships are no longer made.

Is all that correct? If it is, that's not so bad now. It is beginning to make sense.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Mr March

[RedWolf]

The New Macross Class ships (Battle + City) only amounted to 13 ships. The Island Cluster Class ships (Battle + Islands) are what where made later and the New Macross Class ships are no longer made.

Is all that correct? If it is, that's not so bad now. It is beginning to make sense.

Also the odd numbered Macross fleets make sense.

The only 13 NMC built but some of these fleets like Macross 1 and Macross 5 have multiple NMC.

The fleet montage over Earth with an Island Cluster class orbiting Earth and two NMC leaving could be the Macross 13 fleet.

We know for certain that Macross 7, Macross 9 and Macross 11 have single City class ships.

[sketchley]

Okay, I want to collect what I've read so far and make sure I have it right. So there are three different fleet designations:

Large-Scale Emigration Fleet

New Macross Class Emigration Fleet

Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet

A given fleet can be 1, 2 or all 3 of these designations. Is that correct?

To be completely correct, one should add:

Macross Class Emigration Fleet

Megaroad Class Emigration Fleet

But yeah, even including the extra two, a fleet could still be called up to 3 different terms. Though, I'm going to add the disclaimer, in that I need to do a bit more research (it's 02:00 as I type this) regarding the New Macross class. Right now, I'm only finding 新マクロス級の移民船団 in Macross Chronicle. The の is throwing me off and I want to check if it's only this one instance, or if it pops up elsewhere (having quickly glanced at the other sheets, they state things like "Macross 5 Fleet", but not something like 5th New Macross class Emigration Fleet.

Close-Range Emigration Fleets, which colonize within 100 light years of the Solar System

Fixed!

Lastly, there are the ship classes:

Macross class, Super Dimension Fortress

Megaroad class Super-Long Range Colonization Ship

New Macross class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + City Class Ship + Fleet Ships (Riviera, Factory ship, etc) (such as City 7)

Island Cluster class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + Island Class Ships + Environment ship (Island 3) (such as Island 1 + others)

Fixed! (yeah, it's debatable if class is part of the name of the ship, or just an attributive noun.

The New Macross class ships (Battle + City) only amounted to 13 ships. The Island Cluster class ships (Battle + Islands) are what where made later and the New Macross class ships are no longer made.

Is all that correct? If it is, that's not so bad now. It is beginning to make sense.

From what I'm scanlating, yes, that's correct.

[sketchley]

Also the odd numbered Macross fleets make sense.

The only 13 NMC built but some of these fleets like Macross 1 and Macross 5 have multiple NMC.

(...)

Actually... they're not New Macross class ships. Or at least the ones with the Macross 5 aren't described as such. I believe they're described as "similar ships", but are not part of the Battle nor Super Long Range Emigration Fleet numbering systems.

[RedWolf]

Pretty vague wording if you ask me. Similar? They're copies of each other.

Ditto with Macross 1.

How similar can they get?

I guess the fleet is named after the flagship and capital city number.

My guess this is another "not to confuse the audience" reasoning by Shoji Kawamori. As with Zentradi emigration fleets which use old Zentradi warships for colony vessels.

Still Macross 11 is the weirdest NMC there is.

Too bad they didn't show Lynn Kaifun with a horrible death.

Edited May 11, 2009 by RedWolf

[sketchley]

Nah. I see it more along the lines of "this is what the New Macross class fleets look like now, a couple of decades after launching, and after the creation of the Island Cluster class system of hard-linked ships."

(...)

Still Macross 11 is the weirdest NMC there is.

(...)

[RedWolf]

I was referring to the prickliness and the wings.

[anime52k8]

Actually... they're not New Macross class ships. Or at least the ones with the Macross 5 aren't described as such. I believe they're described as "similar ships", but are not part of the Battle nor Super Long Range Emigration Fleet numbering systems.

so realistically, they're probably nigh identical to NMC's but because they aren't fleet flag ships they are named/numbered separately from the Super long ass name emigration fleet ships?

[Mark Nguyen]

I see the emmigration fleets as an organic construct after launching. Each one we've seen has been noticably different than the others; I see this as a combination of how they were built (there obviously are several sources of these fleets) and what has happened to them after launching. Some of these fleets have been in space for decades; it makes sense to modify and add to them as needed (by using the Three Star ships or whatever industrial support they have). Macross 11 probably looked a lot like the Macross 7 fleet when it launched, but over the years they added to themselves as their population grew and their needs changed.

Also, Lynn Kaifun would be in his late 60s by 2059, and hadn't been heard of for fifteen years. He may have died naturally by now, or in any case is probably in retirement.

Mark

[edwin3060]

Okay, I want to collect what I've read so far and make sure I have it right. So there are three different fleet designations:

Large-Scale Emigration Fleet

New Macross Class Emigration Fleet

Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet

A given fleet can be 1, 2 or all 3 of these designations. Is that correct?

so realistically, they're probably nigh identical to NMC's but because they aren't fleet flag ships they are named/numbered separately from the Super long ass name emigration fleet ships?

I think I'm getting a headache. They should do what the US did when they adopted the tri-service designation system for their aircraft and unify all these descriptions.

[RedWolf]

I think we can now firmly establish that New Macross Class Battle class are built around the 1,510 meter length specification and the Large Scale Emigration Fleet and Island Cluster Class Battle class at 1,681 length specification.

New Macross Class (City Class) Battle class

Battle 1

Battle 5

Battle 7

Battle 13

Large Scale Emmigration Fleet and Island Cluster Class Battle class

Battle 25 or Battle Frontier

I'm going to assume that Battle Frontier is the standard Battle class for the Island Cluster Class.

Battle 21 or Battle Galaxy

Battle Galaxy on the other hand could be a very unique due to it being attached to Macross Galaxy. Thus Admiral Perry's immediate recognition.

Later generation Battle class have greater flight decks and internal space, also longer gunships that can be fired in ship mode.

This would explain why these ships have heavier mass than the earlier 13 NMC Battle class ships.

[DarkReaper]

Battle Galaxy on the other hand could be a very unique due to it being attached to Macross Galaxy. Thus Admiral Perry's immediate recognition.

The bright violet color might have tipped him off as well.

[RedWolf]

This is interesting... It would seem that Battle Galaxy's starboard and port cannons were based on rough sketch of Battle 7.

If Battle 5 was a Zentradi design this one looks like a Meltrandi design.

Also originally Battle 7 had a teather or energy hose pipeline.

Another Battle 7 sketch but with more arrow like shoulders.

Edited May 17, 2009 by RedWolf