Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread IV *Read 1st Post*

[sketchley]

I agree with Macross Guru. It's completly unrelated, and comes across as a juvenile attempt to add pron (mecha or otherwise) to the thread.

Redwolf: the nude figure is just a nude figure used for scale. A couple of the images clearly show a SDFM Meltrandi flight suit, and connectors being plugged into the suit (the entire lower right of the image).

Though, it does make me wonder if the suit has some type of feedback, or senses the movement of the pilot and uses that movement data to move the suit.

[anime52k8]

Seems one of the original concept ideas was for Meltran pilots to pilot Quadraluuns naked. Kinda like those suits in Bubblegum Crisis.

Now it was mentioned Ranka inherited her moving hair from a Zentradi ancestor.

I remember the part about Ranka's hair moving because she's 1/4 Zentradi but I still don't see how that ties into Meltran's piloting Q-Rau's. and where did you get the idea that they originally planed to have them pilot the Q-Rau's naked? If you're basing that assertion on the presence of naked Milia; that's just there because for some reason they liked throwing in naked women for scale from time to time back then.

prime example:

random naked Misa in a EC-33B disk sensor interior drawing. I have no idea why.

[Macross GURU]

I remember the part about Ranka's hair moving because she's 1/4 Zentradi but I still don't see how that ties into Meltran's piloting Q-Rau's. and where did you get the idea that they originally planed to have them pilot the Q-Rau's naked? If you're basing that assertion on the presence of naked Milia; that's just there because for some reason they liked throwing in naked women for scale from time to time back then.

prime example:

random naked Misa in a EC-33B disk sensor interior drawing. I have no idea why.

I'm shocked! I had no idea Misa was an exhibitionist... Does Hikaru know about this?

Now that the Q-Rau got mentioned, I wonder what kind of upgrades the Q-Rea has in comparison to the Q-Rau other then the obvious cannon and apogee correction thruster sick thingy on the back.

[RedWolf]

I'm shocked! I had no idea Misa was an exhibitionist... Does Hikaru know about this?

No, but the guy flying the Orguss does.

[Macross GURU]

No, but the guy flying the Orguss does.

Actually it was a pilot of an Ishkick

[miles316]

Yes, my website has a brief entry about Micro-Missiles in the "M" section of the Macropedia. The largest micro-missiles are 28 centimeters (0.28 meters) in diameter and approx 80 cm (0.80 meters) long or roughly three times their diameter (found in the GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie). The missile used in the VF-1S Super Valkyrie and most later valkyrie micro-missiles are an even smaller type of micro-missile.

By comparison, the AGM-114 Hellfire missile is 1.63 meters long (64 in) and 17.8 cm in diameter (7 in). The popular AIM-9 Sidewinder is 2.85 meters long (9 ft 4.2 in) and 12.7 cm (5 in) in diameter.

So the largest micro-missiles are a little bigger around, but much shorter than conventional missiles. Most Macross micro-missiles appear smaller than the 28 cm micro-missiles.

Thank you.

[Zinjo]

I agree with Macross Guru. It's completly unrelated, and comes across as a juvenile attempt to add pron (mecha or otherwise) to the thread.

Redwolf: the nude figure is just a nude figure used for scale. A couple of the images clearly show a SDFM Meltrandi flight suit, and connectors being plugged into the suit (the entire lower right of the image).

Though, it does make me wonder if the suit has some type of feedback, or senses the movement of the pilot and uses that movement data to move the suit.

I always thought the Q-Rau was the inspiration for the BDI system in Plus. The suit seems very intuitive and there has to be a reason why it was the most effective power armor, outside of the pilot's skills...

[Macross GURU]

I always thought the Q-Rau was the inspiration for the BDI system in Plus. The suit seems very intuitive and there has to be a reason why it was the most effective power armor, outside of the pilot's skills...

Sounds plausible... I do know the maneuver system was developed from the Q-rau... evidence and citation may be needed...

[taksraven]

I remember the part about Ranka's hair moving because she's 1/4 Zentradi but I still don't see how that ties into Meltran's piloting Q-Rau's. and where did you get the idea that they originally planed to have them pilot the Q-Rau's naked? If you're basing that assertion on the presence of naked Milia; that's just there because for some reason they liked throwing in naked women for scale from time to time back then.

prime example:

random naked Misa in a EC-33B disk sensor interior drawing. I have no idea why.

It simple, its a naughty pervy pervy illustrator.

Taksraven

[hobbes221]

It simple, its a naughty pervy pervy illustrator.

Taksraven

No, no, no... They have to be naked otherwise their clothes would throw of the scale

[Morpheus]

Mecha tech thread...from Super Pack to naked Misa...I'm impressed.

[Killer Robot]

No, no, no... They have to be naked otherwise their clothes would throw of the scale

Hmm. So that would make Battle Frontier almost exactly 1000 Misas long. Perhaps we should make that the official unit for use in that size thread, since it's obviously the intent of the original illustrators.

[Kelsain]

Hmm. So that would make Battle Frontier almost exactly 1000 Misas long. Perhaps we should make that the official unit for use in that size thread, since it's obviously the intent of the original illustrators.

No-no. It's important to get the units correct, or else the proportions will be all wrong. That's 1000 NAKED Misas long.

[DarkReaper]

Yeah, her top hat and high heels might throw off the scaling.

[miles316]

SDF 1 started out as a supervision army ship. Was the supervision army still taking their marching orders from the Proto Devlin, or were they just trying to hide from the Zentrady and survive.

[anime52k8]

SDF 1 started out as a supervision army ship. Was the supervision army still taking their marching orders from the Proto Devlin, or were they just trying to hide from the Zentrady and survive.

second option. PD were sealed away and all the Protoculture were gone, but the SA were still running around the galaxy and the zentradi were still hunting them.

[miles316]

I moved my question to the newbie thread.

Edited March 15, 2009 by miles316

[Gubaba]

Were The Zentradi hunting them down because no one told them to stop, or were the Supervision Army still waging war on the PC/Zentradi.

What does this have to do with Frontier or mecha...?

[d3v]

Now that the Q-Rau got mentioned, I wonder what kind of upgrades the Q-Rea has in comparison to the Q-Rau other then the obvious cannon and apogee correction thruster sick thingy on the back.

A larger cockpit to fit Klan.

Hmm. So that would make Battle Frontier almost exactly 1000 Misas long. Perhaps we should make that the official unit for use in that size thread, since it's obviously the intent of the original illustrators.

I approve.

Yeah, her top hat and high heels might throw off the scaling.

Not if you have the proper conversion formula (X naked Misa's = Y Misa's with top hat and high heels).

[charger69]

To Zinjo:

It's sound right...

Edited March 29, 2009 by charger69

[Zinjo]

if you are interested in

Macross Frontier - Official Fan Book

http://archive-scans.blogspot.com/2009/03/...an-book_12.html

This guy is great! Thank you Archive

That may be nice, but taking cash out of BigWest's pocket is not really cool around here...

We want to see more Macross productions and that only happens when the sponsors make money on publications and merchandise. There is a cost to everything that seems free.

[RedWolf]

I believe I've figured out the length of Battle Galaxy. It is exactly the same length as Battle Frontier, 1,681 meters.

Also where that excess 171 meters is in relation to the other ships of their class.

As we know Battle 7, Battle 5 and Battle 13 are 1,510 meters in length.

But Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy is longer. Look carefully at Battle Galaxy. There two sets of deck protusions. Up to the inner set is the regular length of a New Macross Class. The outer set is the excess 171 meters.

It isn't that Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy are bigger than Battle 7, Battle 5 and Battle 13 their deck is longer.

[Killer Robot]

It isn't that Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy are bigger than Battle 7, Battle 5 and Battle 13 their deck is longer.

What I'm curious about is that they weigh something like twice as much despite being so externally similar. Or at least Frontier does.

[RedWolf]

What I'm curious about is that they weigh something like twice as much despite being so externally similar. Or at least Frontier does.

I suspect most of the excess weight goes to the gunship. As Battle Frontier's gunship has features that Battle 7 did not.

The others go into extra beam cannons placed all over Battle Frontier. Battle galaxy on the other hand has bigger guns on its shoulders.

[sketchley]

I believe I've figured out the length of Battle Galaxy. It is exactly the same length as Battle Frontier, 1,681 meters.

I see you haven't read "Great Mechanics.DX 7.

Also where that excess 171 meters is in relation to the other ships of their class.

As we know Battle 7, Battle 5 and Battle 13 are 1,510 meters in length.

But Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy is longer. Look carefully at Battle Galaxy. There two sets of deck protusions. Up to the inner set is the regular length of a New Macross Class. The outer set is the excess 171 meters.

It isn't that Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy are bigger than Battle 7, Battle 5 and Battle 13 their deck is longer.

Again, refer to "Great Mechanics.DX #7 (or wait until I get a round toit and type up the translation of it). FYI, it's refered to as an "approximately 200 m stretch".

[hobbes221]

I suspect most of the excess weight goes to the gunship. As Battle Frontier's gunship has features that Battle 7 did not.

The others go into extra beam cannons placed all over Battle Frontier. Battle galaxy on the other hand has bigger guns on its shoulders.

Just a thought but there could also be a increase in, or new type of armor plate due to reactions from past combat actions. The design could have given up some internal volume to allow for a stronger frame as well.

This is just a idea that I had when remembering how the M1 Abrams started out at about 61.5 tons and the latest ones roll off the line at around 69.5 tons. They don't look very different on the outside but due to the new armor packages newer ones are a much harder kill. Maybe something along the same lines are going on with the carriers.

[Mr March]

Isn't gold a far too soft and pliable material? It would just go splat against armor. I guess it's more of a tungsten (or DU) core mantled with a thin layer of gold.

Also, 300m penetration against Destroid armour? That can only be a translation error. The round would have turned into plasma and diffused way before that.

The shells in the SSL-9B sniper rifle are apparently using several metals/alloys and polymers, so gold is probably only one part of the package. In addition to the electromagnetic advantages other have mentioned, gold may be used in the shells not for it's structural strength, but as a way to add density. Gold is one of the most dense metals, so it would make a projectile much more dense and thus grant it superior kinetic force. Of course, the super-hard metal casing of the sniuper rifle shell is also a cypher. Is this an allusion to space metal, the material used way back in the SDF Macross era as the frame of the VF-1 Valkyrie?

Back on the topic of gold as a commodity, now that the human civilization has long expanded beyond Earth, it's quite possible gold is no longer considered a rare metal. Other sources may have been found or even synthesis may now be possible.

I'm not sure if that penetration figure is accurate, but the SSL-9B sniper rifle is firing a projectile at an astounding velocity. To give you an idea of how fast the SSL-9B sniper rifle is firing its bullets, the current limit of cannon ballistics for tanks has them firing at 1,800 m/s (roughly 6,000 feet per second). Rail guns currently being researched can fire projectiles at double that velocity, starting at 3,500 m/s or more. In comparison, the SSL-9B is firing at a max velocity of 7,490 m/s. I'm not sure if that 300 meter penetration rating is correct, but a bullet from that gun must have one hell of a penetration rating given the insane velocity of the projectile.

[Killer Robot]

Also, 300m penetration against Destroid armour? That can only be a translation error. The round would have turned into plasma and diffused way before that.

It might be a translation error, or it might be an overenthusiastic projection using modern technical conventions. When discussing tanks and anti-armor weapons, protection and penetration is discussed in a standard thickness equivalent to that of plain rolled steel armor as was used as of WWII. Modern tanks use much more effective protection for similar weights and thicknesses, but to simplify things weapons are described by how much rolled steel they can penetrate and armor by how much steel it would take to compete. For example, the newest depleted uranium ammunition for the M1 Abrams by one source is listed as penetrating 960mm at 2000 meters range, and have turret armor equivalent to 800-900mm against projectiles and more against explosive anti-tank rounds. The physical thickness of its armor is much less than this, however.

Now, if the writer meant this it gives some perspective: it's not designed to penetrate 300m of destroid armor, but rather a destroid with 300m equivalent of steel armor, this might make sene, but the idea of destroids being 300 times tougher than modern tanks sounds pretty excessive too. Then again, looking at stats from WWII tanks, modern ones have armor and armor penetration on the order of ten times as high, and we didn't capture any advanced alien tech in the intervening period, so maybe it's only a little shocking.

[Mr March]

I'm guessing the 300 meter figure is correct. The 300 meter rating must be a representative figure since no destroid is 300 meters in size, let alone possessing armor that thick. A rating of 300 millimeters would be barely the same penetrating power as the earliest anti-tank missiles from the 1960s. We know that standard gun pods can destroy other valkyries and that the weakest of the valkyries (the VF-0, without thermonuclear engines) possessed armor as hard as a tank. Since we know from the events of Macross Frontier that the SSL-9B is far more powerful than a standard gun pod, it absolutely cannot have a penetration rating of 300 millimeters.

[azrael]

I'm guessing the 300 meter figure is correct. The 300 meter rating must be a representative figure since no destroid is 300 meters in size, let alone possessing armor that thick. A rating of 300 millimeters would be barely the same penetrating power as the earliest anti-tank missiles from the 1960s. We know that standard gun pods can destroy other valkyries and that the weakest of the valkyries (the VF-0, without thermonuclear engines) possessed armor as hard as a tank. Since we know from the events of Macross Frontier that the SSL-9B is far more powerful than a standard gun pod, it absolutely cannot have a penetration rating of 300 millimeters.

It's a freakin typo. "300m" should be "300mm". Which is the size of a regular desk ruler, which is quite thick. And it's Destroid armor, which is probably fairly dense not to mention it said it's a composite armor.

[Mr March]

Ah, so it's 300mm but "Destroid armor" is the representative benchmark, not steel. That makes sense then. Of course, it also makes it impossible to determine the real world equivalent, but I suppose that's the point

[sketchley]

(...) And it's Destroid armor, which is probably fairly dense not to mention it said it's a composite armor.

... with plenty of OTEC advances incorporated.

The good news is that they didn't include energy conversion armour... but wait, doesn't an energy conversion armour equipped VF have about the same armour as the standard Destroid?

[azrael]

Ah, so it's 300mm but "Destroid armor" is the representative benchmark, not steel. That makes sense then. Of course, it also makes it impossible to determine the real world equivalent, but I suppose that's the point

It's not like they make tanks anymore. We also don't know how tough Destroid armor is. The point of the wording is, a SPX-55-round can punch through some pretty hard stuff if it wanted to. And, let us not forget that a sniper rifle is a precision weapon. You don't spray-and-pray with that thing.

[Mr March]

The good news is that they didn't include energy conversion armour... but wait, doesn't an energy conversion armour equipped VF have about the same armour as the standard Destroid?

No, not as originally envisioned. First generation destroids were said to have "heavy armor and firepower that far surpassed a VF." Which is probably why they use destroid armor as the representative benchmark for armor in Macross; because it's the strongest stuff they build. Even the Vajra energy converting armor wasn't strong enough to stop the SSL-9B shells. Which is not really surprising, given the ridiculous firepower of that sniper rifle.

The only low end benchmark we have for armor in Macross is the VF-0 Phoenix, a mecha powered by conventional (non-reaction) turbine engines which had armor equivalent to a tank. Once reaction engines came along and VFs advanced, energy converting armor would have only become much stronger. By time 2059 came around, it's possible the valkyries may have ECA many times more powerful than the earliest VFs.

It's not like they make tanks anymore. We also don't know how tough Destroid armor is. The point of the wording is, a SPX-55-round can punch through some pretty hard stuff if it wanted to. And, let us not forget that a sniper rifle is a precision weapon. You don't spray-and-pray with that thing.

Unless you count the Stryker Mobile Guns seen in Macross Frontier, Episode 1

But yes, knowing the properties of GFS-a2 composite armor on the destroids would be necessary to determine penetrating power (and the properties of the "super-hard metal" shells too). Nonetheless, you're right that the context is clearly stating the SSL-9B is one of the most powerful valkyrie guns. Regardless of what the actual numbers might be, a dense projectile shot from that sniper gun at 7,490 m/s is going to go through nearly anything. It's no wonder I originally mistook the gun for a beam weapon when it vaporized a Vajra's head and torso

Edited April 12, 2009 by Mr March

[RedWolf]

Too bad for Michael that last year was the Year of the Dead Sniper. I think only Duke Togo, Gogol 13 not the MW member, came out alive.