Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread IV *Read 1st Post*

[Mr March]

We do see Alto pull so much g's in the last episode that his helmet glass breaks.

Yeah, and Brera's cybernetic head implant breaks under very little g. Dramatic license, methinks.

[edwin3060]

Yeah, and Brera's cybernetic head implant breaks under very little g. Dramatic license, methinks.

Maybe not-- after all, it broke because the VF was hit and he probably hit his head against the inside of the cockpit.

Onto the larger issue-- the wonders of the plot device that is the ISC means that there is no need to change the animation style for higher gs--- because if a previous series pilot was pulling 9Gs, and a MF pilot was pulling 27Gs but the ISC reduced the effect to 9Gs, the animation effects would be the same.

[Final Vegeta]

Maybe not-- after all, it broke because the VF was hit and he probably hit his head against the inside of the cockpit.

Nope, it broke because of an electric discharge.

Onto the larger issue-- the wonders of the plot device that is the ISC means that there is no need to change the animation style for higher gs--- because if a previous series pilot was pulling 9Gs, and a MF pilot was pulling 27Gs but the ISC reduced the effect to 9Gs, the animation effects would be the same.

Actually I think it would take higher g's to visibly deform a body, so the animation style would still be the same in any case.

Also mind that ISC was not the first anti-g countermeasure, as seen with the VF-15:

First variable fighter with a seat which incorporates the biological anti-G boost system. This system stimulates the human body with laser, electromagnetic pulse, infrared, and other means to momentarily activate metabolic functions against stress.

FV

[Killer Robot]

We probably should up our estimate of what VF-19/22 pilots usually pull to more like 10-12g at the minimum since that's what the new generation of real world g-suits seem to be capable of, and I don't imagine the 2040s are inferior to that, alternate timeline or not. Not that it's a vast difference: the ISC still more than doubles what the pilot can withstand.

Also, even assuming proportional/limited reduction rather than elimination, if at the 27.5g the airframe can sustain the ISC is capable of reducing perceived acceleration to a level somewhat lower level than the ace-straining VF-19 levels, so much the better: pilots suffer visually and cognitively before they actually risk blacking out. If for example the pilot is feeling some 25% of what the plane is, that 7g max is still a pretty wide range for tactile feedback, while remaining a lot gentler than the 2040 models. If it's less a constant percentage and more of a curve, then the same applies a bit differently: either way, a pilot trained on conventional variable fighters will need some retraining for ISC models, but it's less of a leap than going from conventional aircraft to VFs, or likely even from a VF-1 to a VF-19.

[edwin3060]

Nope, it broke because of an electric discharge.

Actually I think it would take higher g's to visibly deform a body, so the animation style would still be the same in any case.

Also mind that ISC was not the first anti-g countermeasure, as seen with the VF-15:

First variable fighter with a seat which incorporates the biological anti-G boost system. This system stimulates the human body with laser, electromagnetic pulse, infrared, and other means to momentarily activate metabolic functions against stress.

FV

Thanks for the correction =)

The ISC may not be the first anti-g countermeasure, but it certainly is the first that actually reduces the g levels, rather than the system in the VF-15, which just stimulates the body to resist the gs.

KR: Good point. Also, if the effect of the ISC is proportional, I would think that the body and mind (esp. muscle memory) of the pilot can be trained to gauge the g's he is pulling from what he actually feels, which should help in the control of the VF-25, given that we know the EX-Gear system works by detecting some electrical field generated from either the nerves or the muscles.

[edwin3060]

Just some pictures of the QF-4000/AIF7S Ghost 1/72 model kit, clearly showing the 25mm beam gun (ventral) and some triple port weapon on the side. There is still another weapons system unaccounted for-- I think it is the missile system and these are in the pods above the intakes on the Ghost where the Super packs for the old Ghost X-9 would be. The key differences, in comparison with the V-9 Ghost pictures on M^3, is that the canards and ventral fins are swept backwards rather than forwards. The V-9 also has a beam gun in place of the dorsal sensor of the QF-4000.

There are also some stealth/LO stylings in the design given that the wing/fin sweep angles are all the same, the dihedral on the canards and the main wings are the same, and the engine exhausts are similar in style to the B-2/YF-23 with serrated edges and a slit-like form to promote exhaust mixing with ambient air to reduce the IR signature.

Edited March 5, 2009 by edwin3060

[hobbes221]

Again, thanks for the pics.

Alright, new question! Who here thinks that the 25mm guns (beam or bullet) are a viable primary weapon system in the Macross world? Given the one time I've seen them in use (episode 7) they look to be able to get the job done. Now I'm not talking about talking out a Big Red Vajra but more along the lines of other VFs or similar sized mech. As we now know that they also arm the Ghosts I'm thinking that they are go to go. (also would like to here your thoughts as I'm working on a VF design of my own, and 25mm plays a big part )

Oh and it would make my day if someone with the models are/or toys could give me the rough size for a GU-17 gunpod, length and width is all I'm looking for, thanks

[edwin3060]

Again, thanks for the pics.

Alright, new question! Who here thinks that the 25mm guns (beam or bullet) are a viable primary weapon system in the Macross world? Given the one time I've seen them in use (episode 7) they look to be able to get the job done. Now I'm not talking about talking out a Big Red Vajra but more along the lines of other VFs or similar sized mech. As we now know that they also arm the Ghosts I'm thinking that they are go to go. (also would like to here your thoughts as I'm working on a VF design of my own, and 25mm plays a big part )

Oh and it would make my day if someone with the models are/or toys could give me the rough size for a GU-17 gunpod, length and width is all I'm looking for, thanks

The gunpod for the 1/60 DX toy is 13.5 cm long unextended, 15 cm extended and 1.2 cm at the widest-- I think the DX toy has the most anime-accurate gunpod so far in terms of design and how it extends.

[Mr March]

Alright, new question! Who here thinks that the 25mm guns (beam or bullet) are a viable primary weapon system in the Macross world? Given the one time I've seen them in use (episode 7) they look to be able to get the job done. Now I'm not talking about talking out a Big Red Vajra but more along the lines of other VFs or similar sized mech. As we now know that they also arm the Ghosts I'm thinking that they are go to go. (also would like to here your thoughts as I'm working on a VF design of my own, and 25mm plays a big part )

Just based off all the statistics for the Macross Frontier mecha, I am very much getting the sense that the 25mm beam or ballistic guns are the standard low/mid range anti-armor weapon in the Macross universe. Or at least, the Macross universe in 2059. But obviously to be a viable weapon against a mecha, 25mm guns in Macross are dishing out significantly more firepower than conventional 25mm guns, especially to maintain pace with advances in energy converting armor and to overcome defensive technologies like pin-point barriers.

[Macross GURU]

I was just thinking that the YF-24 looks like a VF-25 with a F/A-22 delta wing, or correctly, the VF-25 is a YF-24 with a variable geometry swing-wing (the swing-wing is so passe, but fits with the 25th anniversary looking like the VF-1).

[miles316]

I was just thinking that the YF-24 looks like a VF-25 with a F/A-22 delta wing, or correctly, the VF-25 is a YF-24 with a variable geometry swing-wing (the swing-wing is so passe, but fits with the 25th anniversary looking like the VF-1).

were can some one find a picture of the YF-24?

[DarkReaper]

You can even fly it in YSflight. Physics are botched in the latest VFX release though.

Edited March 7, 2009 by DarkReaper

[RedWolf]

were can some one find a picture of the YF-24?

[Macross GURU]

Here is an early drawing of the VF-11 (I think) that remarkably resembles the YF-24. This is scanned from Kawamori's design works book.

[sketchley]

Macross Guru - image is a rough of the VF-19 Kai.

Someone posted picts from the RVF-25 kit (either this thread, or another). I did some translations of it herein: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S...VF-25/RVF25.htm

Namely: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S....htm#BACKGROUND (line about QF-4000)

and http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S...#WEAPON_SYSTEMS (Head Mounted Sensors)

If I find the time, I'll get the stuff on the Radome and Antenna translated. If... heh.

[edwin3060]

Macross Guru - image is a rough of the VF-19 Kai.

Someone edwin3060 posted picts from the RVF-25 kit (either this thread, or another). I did some translations of it herein: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S...VF-25/RVF25.htm

Namely: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S....htm#BACKGROUND (line about QF-4000)

and http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/S...#WEAPON_SYSTEMS (Head Mounted Sensors)

If I find the time, I'll get the stuff on the Radome and Antenna translated. If... heh.

Sweet thanks. Great translation! Are you planning to work on the Super parts translation as well?

Some comments and questions,

ICS stands for Inertial Capacitor System I believe (from Macross Compendium)

The part about the head not containing lasers contradicts the Macross Compendium VF-25S page translated by Gubaba which states that other than the VF-25G, and the VF-25S, all other VF-25s have 2 head lasers.

Where did you get the data about the 300 targets? I believe the scans stated 128 targets, or at least thats what I understand from the Kanji.

Also, about the body mounted missile packs, where did you get the data about the 42 missiles from? I ask because Mr March seems to have the same error in calculating the number of missiles for the body mounted missiles for the Super pack.

Thank you very much for translating!

Edited March 8, 2009 by edwin3060

[sketchley]

Try reading instead of scanning, next time:

from top of stats: Cannon Macross entries are in darkgreen

From my post in this thread: If I find the time, I'll get the stuff on the Radome and Antenna translated. If... heh.

Anyhow:

Re: ISC: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=1934.0 (the Compendium used my translation)

Re: the lack of head lasers: the RVF-25 isn't a VF-25.

[edwin3060]

Hmmm ok. It is still a VF-25 variant though-- and you have your bit about the 42 missiles in green, which directly contradicts the model kit info.

Edited March 8, 2009 by edwin3060

[sketchley]

Hmmm ok. It is still a VF-25 variant though-- and you have your bit about the 42 missiles in green, which directly contradicts the model kit info.

That's a very presumptuous statement for you to make, especially considering that a) you can't read Japanese, and b) the kit doesn't state the number of missiles.

The number comes from a fellow MW member who counted the missiles in the anime.

Also, can you take better quality pictures? Blurry picts are a bitch to read - to the point of being illegible.

[miles316]

Does any one know the length, and diameter of the micro missile? What is the general size? Is it the size of the hellfire missile or a two inch rocket?

Edited March 8, 2009 by miles316

[DarkReaper]

Does any one know the length, and diameter of the micro missile? What is the general size? Is it the size of the hellfire missile or a two inch rocket?

About the same size as an Appale (sp?) Genki can.

[edit]Added smily for extra clarification[/edit]

Edited March 8, 2009 by DarkReaper

[miles316]

About the same size as an Appale (sp?) Genki can

Like a can of pop?

[edwin3060]

That's a very presumptuous statement for you to make, especially considering that a) you can't read Japanese, and b) the kit doesn't state the number of missiles.

The number comes from a fellow MW member who counted the missiles in the anime.

Also, can you take better quality pictures? Blurry picts are a bitch to read - to the point of being illegible.

I know-- Mr March counted them some months back--- but wouldn't the model kit info supersede the anime drawn count? I believe the kit does state the number of missiles in the description--

Anyway, there are:

4 x SLE-7A

1 x SLE-3A

10 x SLE-1C

which matches the 15 missiles shown in the missile pack above it.

---From the VF-25F Super packs post

While I've lost the ability read Japanese, I can still understand the kanji, which is why I could make a little sense of the descriptions.

Which pics are too blurry to translate? I will try to take better pics, but like I stated previously, I don't have a scanner and my camera is 3-4 years old.

[edwin3060]

Like a can of pop?

Yep except that it's extra addictive and can get innocent Mayan islanders to give up their blood

[Mr March]

Does any one know the length, and diameter of the micro missile? What is the general size? Is it the size of the hellfire missile or a two inch rocket?

Yes, my website has a brief entry about Micro-Missiles in the "M" section of the Macropedia. The largest micro-missiles are 28 centimeters (0.28 meters) in diameter and approx 80 cm (0.80 meters) long or roughly three times their diameter (found in the GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie). The missile used in the VF-1S Super Valkyrie and most later valkyrie micro-missiles are an even smaller type of micro-missile.

By comparison, the AGM-114 Hellfire missile is 1.63 meters long (64 in) and 17.8 cm in diameter (7 in). The popular AIM-9 Sidewinder is 2.85 meters long (9 ft 4.2 in) and 12.7 cm (5 in) in diameter.

So the largest micro-missiles are a little bigger around, but much shorter than conventional missiles. Most Macross micro-missiles appear smaller than the 28 cm micro-missiles.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Mr March

[sketchley]

---From the VF-25F Super packs post

While I've lost the ability read Japanese, I can still understand the kanji, which is why I could make a little sense of the descriptions.

Which pics are too blurry to translate? I will try to take better pics, but like I stated previously, I don't have a scanner and my camera is 3-4 years old.

My camera is 3-4 years old, too. Mount it on a tripod, or place it on a pile of books, when you press the trigger... erm, button. You'll know the blurry ones if you look closely at the pictures.

Those are booster engines, btw.

Edited March 9, 2009 by sketchley

[Macross GURU]

Wait... So, what is the correct number of missiles on the VF-25 and variants? I'm working on the RPG supplement for the new book. Not to front on sketchley's work, what he has done is fantastic.

[sketchley]

Wait... So, what is the correct number of missiles on the VF-25 and variants? I'm working on the RPG supplement for the new book. Not to front on sketchley's work, what he has done is fantastic.

Go with the number that Mr.March has. It's the number I used, and it comes from a count that one or more MW members did.

Just to be clear, only the Super VF-1 has ever had the number of missiles it carries clearly identified - even then, some counting of a cutaway of the FAST packs was needed. Even the lineart of the other VFs only ever have "micro-missile" and an arrow pointing to the launcher slit (and they are usually not identified in any stats.) There are, of course, some exceptions, but that's the rule.

What system are you doing the stats in?

Edited March 9, 2009 by sketchley

[Macross GURU]

Go with the number that Mr.March has. It's the number I used, and it comes from a count that one or more MW members did.

Just to be clear, only the Super VF-1 has ever had the number of missiles it carries clearly identified - even then, some counting of a cutaway of the FAST packs was needed. Even the lineart of the other VFs only ever have "micro-missile" and an arrow pointing to the launcher slit (and they are usually not identified in any stats.) There are, of course, some exceptions, but that's the rule.

What system are you doing the stats in?

Row-boat-tech (robotech ) Palladium second edition (more like 1.5 edition but at least the rules are better written and better explained this time) I'm making it work directly with the book. No real changes except some optional house rules. I think the Macross Saga book is better then robotech #1 published previously. Well, at least 95% accurate as much as the license from HG (boo) allows... And they state GERWALK mode not guardian mode!

EDIT: fixed spelling mistakes.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Macross GURU

[edwin3060]

My camera is 3-4 years old, too. Mount it on a tripod, or place it on a pile of books, when you press the trigger... erm, button. You'll know the blurry ones if you look closely at the pictures.

Those are booster engines, btw.

You're going to have to point out the blurry ones if you want them, because I don't know which ones you have problems reading.

Also, I think its pretty silly to go with an animation count when half the time we're trying to rationalise animation mistakes here. We probably already have an official source that says it is 15 missiles per missile pod and even details the number and type of each missile. It's ironic, because while Mr March is probably waiting for your translations before he updates his website, you are using his data to justify your count?

P.S. Just to be clear, we are talking about the body mounted missile pods and not the wing-fence mounted booster pods right?

Edited March 9, 2009 by edwin3060

[edwin3060]

Wait... So, what is the correct number of missiles on the VF-25 and variants? I'm working on the RPG supplement for the new book. Not to front on sketchley's work, what he has done is fantastic.

From what I can understand, 15 in each body mounted missile pod for a total of 30 (not including reloads), plus whatever is in the wing booster pods (3 launchers each for a total of 6).

[RedWolf]

Seems to me Ranka's hair is a reference to a unused concept.

NSFW Nekkid Meltran Quadraluun pilot.

The hair works as an interface?

[anime52k8]

Seems to me Ranka's hair is a reference to a unused concept.

NSFW Nekkid Meltran Quadraluun pilot.

The hair works as an interface?

elaborate please, I have no idea what you mean.

[RedWolf]

elaborate please, I have no idea what you mean.

Seems one of the original concept ideas was for Meltran pilots to pilot Quadraluuns naked. Kinda like those suits in Bubblegum Crisis.

Now it was mentioned Ranka inherited her moving hair from a Zentradi ancestor.

[Macross GURU]

Seems one of the original concept ideas was for Meltran pilots to pilot Quadraluuns naked. Kinda like those suits in Bubblegum Crisis.

Now it was mentioned Ranka inherited her moving hair from a Zentradi ancestor.

What does naked Meltandi have to do with Ranka's 'mood' hair? This is non-sequitur...