Gubaba Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Has there really been any clear indication that Zentradi, at least in miclone form, are any tougher or more resilient than humans? All I can think of is the aside in the Frontier manga that little Klan had adultlike strength, and I'm not sure how serious I took that. Also Ranka's somewhat improved resistance to vacuum, but that's different than withstanding acceleration. I have heard in the past that some mecha/vehicles were more popular with Zentradi pilots, but I gathered that it was because they handle similarly to Zentradi mecha, and so were more familiar to Zentradi who had begun in the uncultured fleets or just had been full-sized pilots then later went miclone. Meaning it was that they were easier to adjust to from past training and experience, rather than being better suited to unique features of Zentradi physiology. Just look at Ranka--she's only 1/4 Zentradi, yet has higher tolerances for being exposed to space. Full Zentradi should be significantly "superior". According to Macross Chronicle's Zentradi Page, Zentradi in Micloned form are exactly the same as humans (check the "Distinctive Physical Features" section), but yeah...that seems to contradict what Ranka says, so I'm not sure who's right here. Quote
Killer Robot Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I've heard that said before: what I'm asking is if that's ever clearly stated as more than fan speculation. The vacuum thing I grant, but strength, general toughness, and acceleration tolerance? I can't recall a Zentradi miclone ever being demonstrated as especially strong when it wasn't someone visibly large and muscular, nor can I think of any cases of showing greater tolerance for acceleration: Guld's tearing himself apart seemed pretty clearly to be a "grit and focus" thing in sharp contrast to making a point of his being physically superhuman. I again grant the little manga aside of Klan being unusually strong, but it seemed to be just a casual excuse for comic violence in the same way that the animated version had Michel playing windmill with her for a similar joke. (The manga also made a similar aside about the VF-1 still being competitive with the latest and greatest fighters: I didn't take that too literally either.) Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 I would think that the majority of the Zentraedi fighting forces would still use their own equipment in Macronized form, whether it be due to tradition, or what they're used to or superior strength etc when Macronized. Additionally, with the information from the MChronicles, I think we can say that micronized Zentraedi don't have superior G resistance-- or that it is not enough to matter. Guld still killed himself in the YF-21, afterall. Quote
badboy00z Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Viffedas is stronger than 3 human soldiers as shown in M7 when she opened the hanger door. Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Viffedas is stronger than 3 human soldiers as shown in M7 when she opened the hanger door. Strength doesn't directly relate to G tolerance. Quote
Killer Robot Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Viffedas is stronger than 3 human soldiers as shown in M7 when she opened the hanger door. She's much of who I meant by "visibly large and muscular Zentradi." As an almost comically large and strong looking woman it's not too surprising she shows it off now and then. When I see Milia or Elmo shove open a door some human twice their size couldn't budge, I'll think it means something. Until then, it sounds like Macross Chronicle hasn't mentioned any powers of the sort. Quote
sketchley Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I would think that the majority of the Zentraedi fighting forces would still use their own equipment in Macronized form, whether it be due to tradition, or what they're used to or superior strength etc when Macronized. But why? They know of and have access to newer, better equipment. So far, the new equipment includes the Regult-Kai, Gluag-Kai, Gnerl-Kai, Quequallie-Kai, Enemy Battlesuit (Nousjadel-Ger-Kai?), and Variable Gluag. If we include mecha designed for human (micron) sizes, than we can add the Pheyos Valkyrie. The Annabella Lasiodora and the Gjagravan Va *may* also be designed for giants - though I've yet to come across any info regarding the pilots (size, number or anything else.) Presumably, they are micron sized, given the rest of the equipment fielded by the group that fields them. Edited February 17, 2009 by sketchley Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 But why? They know of and have access to newer, better equipment. So far, the new equipment includes the Regult-Kai, Gluag-Kai, Gnerl-Kai, Quequallie-Kai, Enemy Battlesuit (Nousjadel-Ger-Kai?), and Variable Gluag. If we include mecha designed for human (micron) sizes, than we can add the Pheyos Valkyrie. The Annabella Lasiodora and the Gjagravan Va *may* also be designed for giants - though I've yet to come across any info regarding the pilots (size, number or anything else.) Presumably, they are micron sized, given the rest of the equipment fielded by the group that fields them. I'm not saying that they stick to their old SW1 equipment. I'm saying that they stick to using Macron-sized equipment rather than Micronizing themselves to use human sized equipment. Quote
RedWolf Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not saying that they stick to their old SW1 equipment. I'm saying that they stick to using Macron-sized equipment rather than Micronizing themselves to use human sized equipment. Those are modern versions used by post-cultured rebel Zentradi. (Macross VF-X) As can be seen in Macross Plus OVA part 1 the Zentradi did not rest on their laurels. Creating power suits of their own. The Quadraluun-Rea is a modern take on the Quadraluun-Rau. Even the customised Queadluun-Quilqua. Now the Variable Glaug is built in Zentradi and miclone size flavors. Much like taking the idea of the Monster and creating the VB-6 Koenig Monster using overtech learned from the humans. Quote
Zinjo Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Has there really been any clear indication that Zentradi, at least in miclone form, are any tougher or more resilient than humans? All I can think of is the aside in the Frontier manga that little Klan had adultlike strength, and I'm not sure how serious I took that. Also Ranka's somewhat improved resistance to vacuum, but that's different than withstanding acceleration. I have heard in the past that some mecha/vehicles were more popular with Zentradi pilots, but I gathered that it was because they handle similarly to Zentradi mecha, and so were more familiar to Zentradi who had begun in the uncultured fleets or just had been full-sized pilots then later went miclone. Meaning it was that they were easier to adjust to from past training and experience, rather than being better suited to unique features of Zentradi physiology. In SDFM when Millia "tossed" Komilla to Misa in their living room. She explained that Komilla was a lot tougher than a human baby and Misa shouldn't worry. Quote
Zinjo Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 But why? They know of and have access to newer, better equipment. So far, the new equipment includes the Regult-Kai, Gluag-Kai, Gnerl-Kai, Quequallie-Kai, Enemy Battlesuit (Nousjadel-Ger-Kai?), and Variable Gluag. If we include mecha designed for human (micron) sizes, than we can add the Pheyos Valkyrie. Dont' forget the VF & VA-14's... Quote
sketchley Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I'm not saying that they stick to their old SW1 equipment. I'm saying that they stick to using Macron-sized equipment rather than Micronizing themselves to use human sized equipment. Yes. That's why I listed macron-sized equipment. The Quadraluun-Rea is a modern take on the Quadraluun-Rau. Even the customised Queadluun-Quilqua. I haven't read anywhere that the Queadlunn-Rae is a modern take on the Queadlunn-Rau. In fact, the Compendium says: Queadluun-Rea is a mobile weapon used by the Zentradi (mainly female soldiers) since the ancient times. Edited February 17, 2009 by sketchley Quote
sketchley Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Dont' forget the VF & VA-14's... Only the VA-14. Quote
miles316 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 The limiter that Guld disabled was likely the G-Limiter, much like they have in modern day aircraft. All modern day fighters can out-G their pilots, but software limiters are built into their flight control computers that keep the aircraft from doing so, except for instantaneous turns, and in the case of Russian Aircraft, they have a button on the stick that allows them to temporarily turn off the limiter. WHen Guld turned off that limiter it allowed him to take the YF-21 all the way up to its G-limit, now did he sustain those Gs, not likely, more then likely he would thrust and manuever quickly, recover for a few seconds, thrust and manuever quickly, recover, etc... until he made the final suicide strike. See, he set up a pattern that the Ghost learned, and then faked it out at the last instant bursting to the full G-limit just long enough to smash into the ghost at the cost of his own life, or maybe he arrogently thought he could survive it, but of course he couldn't. As for the VF-25&27, if they have some kind of G-dampener in the cockpit then that would protect the pilot and allow the VF to reach more closely, or actually reach its G limit. This would allow the VF-25&27 to be more manueverable then the VF-19&22. And, as has been stated if that same system were to be incorporated into the VF-19&22, they probably would be able to outmanuever the VF-25&27 due to the fact that those two mecha were more resistant to G loads. Personnaly I think that would be hilarious to see in a sequel or second season, Alto and crew see a flight of VF-19&22s and think that they will be able to totally take them, but end up getting spanked because they have been refitted with the cockpit G-dampener. Why would reducing the G load on the pilot effect the planes handling. Quote
RedWolf Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Why would reducing the G load on the pilot effect the planes handling. Human factors are essential in designing machines. What use is a faster engine if the pilot blacks out or gets killed? Being user friendly is welcome, Probably the reason why Frontier likes to use the VF-171. Not everybody is an ace pilot. Quote
anime52k8 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 As for the VF-25&27, if they have some kind of G-dampener in the cockpit then that would protect the pilot and allow the VF to reach more closely, or actually reach its G limit. This would allow the VF-25&27 to be more manueverable then the VF-19&22. And, as has been stated if that same system were to be incorporated into the VF-19&22, they probably would be able to outmanuever the VF-25&27 due to the fact that those two mecha were more resistant to G loads. Personnaly I think that would be hilarious to see in a sequel or second season, Alto and crew see a flight of VF-19&22s and think that they will be able to totally take them, but end up getting spanked because they have been refitted with the cockpit G-dampener. and you know that the VF-19/VF-22 are inherently more resistant to G loads how? Quote
taksraven Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Nerdy tech question. Who had head lasers first, Macross or Gundam?? Taksraven Quote
Morpheus Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Nerdy tech question. Who had head lasers first, Macross or Gundam?? Taksraven I don't think Gundam got a head laser unless your speaking about Zeong. I think it was Macross, Gundam got a vulcan head, besides Macross head lasers is much more powerful than a Gundam beam rifle. Quote
anime52k8 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Nerdy tech question. Who had head lasers first, Macross or Gundam?? Taksraven Gundam came before macross and Gundam has had head guns since the start, but Macross Head lasers are infinitely cooler. The head guns in Gundam are almost ALWAYS fixed Gatling guns as apposed to the awesome independently targeted missile shooting laser goodness of Macross. Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Gundam came before macross and Gundam has had head guns since the start, but Macross Head lasers are infinitely cooler. The head guns in Gundam are almost ALWAYS fixed Gatling guns as apposed to the awesome independently targeted missile shooting laser goodness of Macross. Well Gundam SEED had head gatlings that worked as CWIS but I get your point and you know that the VF-19/VF-22 are inherently more resistant to G loads how? Because of their higher G ratings-- +35.5/-19.5 for VF-19 and +60/-45 for the VF-22 vs 27.5G for the VF-25 (and only for 120 secs). Granted, the VF-19 and VF-22 have less powerful engines and would not be able to even generate such high Gs in space-- but in atmosphere it is another matter entirely due to the control surfaces available. Quote
DarkReaper Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 The wings would have to be huge to generate 35.5g without a too high angle of attack. So it's basically all down to vernier power. And even those mostly just generate rotation instead of translation. I guess those simply are the level of g the airframe can sustain before breaking apart instead of what it can actually pull. Looking at those g-ratings though, the VF-25 would rip itself to shreds if it ever decides to go full boost on low tanks. Quote
anime52k8 Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Well Gundam SEED had head gatlings that worked as CWIS but I get your point SEED sucked, I probably didn't make it to that point in the show. Quote
Graham Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Always thought it was silly how the head Gatlings of many Gundams are listed as being 60mm caliber. Given how big a 60mm Gatling would be, there is no way you would be able to fit two of them (or even 1) inside a Gundam's head. 20mm or 12.7mm would be far more realistic. Graham Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 SEED sucked, I probably didn't make it to that point in the show. You didn't make it to the end of the first episode? Quote
badboy00z Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Always thought it was silly how the head Gatlings of many Gundams are listed as being 60mm caliber. Given how big a 60mm Gatling would be, there is no way you would be able to fit two of them (or even 1) inside a Gundam's head. 20mm or 12.7mm would be far more realistic. Graham Gundam heads are a lot bigger than Valk heads. Hell mobile suits are bigger than Valks. Also the size of the heads varies. Quote
Sulendil Ang Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 It's confirmed: the Super Pack code is SPS25S/MF25. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=717377 Quote
edwin3060 Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 It's confirmed: the Super Pack code is SPS25S/MF25. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=717377 I wonder what it stands for... Super Pack System 25S/ Macross Frontier 25 ? Quote
anime52k8 Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Always thought it was silly how the head Gatlings of many Gundams are listed as being 60mm caliber. Given how big a 60mm Gatling would be, there is no way you would be able to fit two of them (or even 1) inside a Gundam's head. 20mm or 12.7mm would be far more realistic. Graham I've always been amazed that they can actually fit ammo for the Gattling guns in the head. You didn't make it to the end of the first episode? actually I think I started at like episode 3 or something, finished maybe 2 or 3 and decided it wasn't worth trying to keep up with. Quote
Graham Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Gundam heads are a lot bigger than Valk heads. Hell mobile suits are bigger than Valks. Also the size of the heads varies. Gundam heads are bigger, but not that much bigger. Do you realise just how big a 60mm Gatling would be, let alone two? Quote
Graham Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Because of their higher G ratings-- +35.5/-19.5 for VF-19 and +60/-45 for the VF-22 vs 27.5G for the VF-25 (and only for 120 secs). Granted, the VF-19 and VF-22 have less powerful engines and would not be able to even generate such high Gs in space-- but in atmosphere it is another matter entirely due to the control surfaces available. You realise the 120 second figure is how long the ICS protecs the pilot for at 27.5G not how long the VF-25 can endure 27.5G. Quote
Graham Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Anybody up for having a go at translating the VF-25 Super Pack info from the kit booklet. I'm dying to know more about the Super Pack stats. Graham Quote
azrael Posted February 20, 2009 Author Posted February 20, 2009 Anybody up for having a go at translating the VF-25 Super Pack info from the kit booklet. I'm dying to know more about the Super Pack stats. Unfortunately, the size of the scans makes it hard to make out some characters properly (and yes I did start when those scans show up yesterday). Considering DVD/Blu-ray vol. 7 came out this week, the Fan book is also coming and then I have the 1/72 model...I'll look at it in the order that I receive it. And judging by my tracking numbers, The Fan book and vol. 7 will reach me first. Quote
Graham Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Unfortunately, the size of the scans makes it hard to make out some characters properly (and yes I did start when those scans show up yesterday). Considering DVD/Blu-ray vol. 7 came out this week, the Fan book is also coming and then I have the 1/72 model...I'll look at it in the order that I receive it. And judging by my tracking numbers, The Fan book and vol. 7 will reach me first. What fan book, is this something new, or the one that's been out a few weeks already? I think we need a thread dedicated to Frontier books, so we can keep track. Graham Quote
Killer Robot Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 I think we need a thread dedicated to Frontier books, so we can keep track. Can it start with a nice big first post "Beginner's Guide to the bewildering array of new Macross books?" Since I could totally use that. Quote
sketchley Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) What fan book, is this something new, or the one that's been out a few weeks already? I think we need a thread dedicated to Frontier books, so we can keep track. Graham I think he means "Macross F Official Fan Book". Just wait until you start including magazines that have MF articles. I'm getting a headache just thinking about it! EDIT: and yes, I'm with Azrael: can't read the writing in the scan. Edited February 20, 2009 by sketchley Quote
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