Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread IV *Read 1st Post*

[Zinjo]

Keep in mind, because Galaxy was a hub for new technology and new ideas in science and they continually evolved as they traveled. It may have looked like a New Macross-class when it left Eden. Who's to say they didn't redesign the bridge of Battle Galaxy to allow for cybernetic interfaces and complete automation after they left Eden. Who's to say the Mainland didn't evolved into it's present state from a City-like ship.

Nevermind, Sketchley cleared up the question....

Edited June 10, 2009 by Zinjo

[Graham]

Lineart scans of the Armored Pack from the new August issue of Hobby Japan.

Would still love to confirm if these are by Kawamori or not. IMO, the writting looks like his.

Graham

[Mr March]

Yummy! More line art. Thanks big G

[hobbes221]

Oh man, line art - sweet!

Good stuff Graham, thanks as always.

[Letigre]

SWEET.

After finally seeing close ups the line art, do you guys agree that the pair of ports on the chestplate are two of the four RÖV-22 22mm beam machineguns? (It's now obvious as well that the two ports on the hip pieces are for manuevering jets after seeing the backside, now.)

[azrael]

After finally seeing close ups the line art, do you guys agree that the pair of ports on the chestplate are two of the four RÖV-22 22mm beam machineguns? (It's now obvious as well that the two ports on the hip pieces are for manuevering jets after seeing the backside, now.)

Nope. Those ports look a tad too big to be 22mm. For comparison, the hip guns on the VF-25 are 25mm. Neither the manual or the Chronicle mention where the 4 22mm beam guns are. So I'm not convinced.

[Graham]

Not convinced those chest ports are 2 of the 22mm guns. IMO, They are likely the vent ports for the chest missile exhaust. Agree those ovals on the hip armor are not the 22mm guns, based on the new lineart. Perhaps the 22mm guns are in the forearm packs, 2 per arm pack?

[Letigre]

I just don't buy the idea of those being exhaust ports, since when have mini/micro missle launchers used them in-universe? ever used them?

It's an odd placement for them either way, I can only imagine they're just more manuevering jets if they aren't gunports..

[Graham]

b

I just don't buy the idea of those being exhaust ports, since when have mini/micro missle launchers used them in-universe?

The GBP-1S chest armor has vent ports on the side, as do other parts of the armor, like that for the arms. The VF-1 super arm packs even look to have exhaust fans built in according to the Gold book poster. When you fire that many missiles at once the smoke needs somewhere to go. Pretty sure I've seen vent ports on the VF-11 & VF-0.

[anime52k8]

I kind of doubt the chest port are guns, but I'm wondering about the arm bits? those look like some kind of cannon, really big one.

[Mr March]

Almost every missile launching pod in Macross has had some kind of venting port built into the launcher. Sometimes they are very apparent as detailed sections, but other times they will be simple slits built into the side or back of the launcher.

The GBP-1S Armor for the VF-1J Valkyrie has all kinds of exhaust vents, as Graham described.

The PWS-0X Reactive Armor for the VF-0S Phoenix has two vents mounted on the back of the top launchers.

The APS-11 Protect Armor Pack for the VF-11 Thunderbolt also has vents mounted on the back of the top launchers and other vents similar to the GBP-1S system for the VF-1 Valkyrie.

I've attached an image below for reference.

Regarding the 4 x RÖV-22 22mm beam machine guns on the VF-25S APS-25A/MF25 Armored Messiah, it looks like this new line art completely blasts apart my theory that the paired ports on the hip armor were the new 22mm guns. That's a shame, since it would make so much sense if those paired ports were the guns. But the line art makes them look like verniers of some kind. Now I'm thinking the only place that would accommodate those 22mm guns are the two forward ports on the front torso armor and those two ports under the arms. They are what would be #1 and #8 on the key in Graham's scans above. Either that or the 22mm guns are cleverly hidden beneath some miscellaneous hole/slot/detail somewhere else on the armor and we are meant to wonder. I'm almost getting a bad feeling that we may not learn where they are.

As an aside, I find it odd these newest drawings show a number of micro-missiles for the launcher pods that doesn't match with the official figures

Edited June 28, 2009 by Mr March

[anime52k8]

As an aside, I find it odd these newest drawings show a number of micro-missiles for the launcher pods that doesn't match with the official figures

maybe they changed the number of missiles in the animation and the official numbers are off that, or maybe the people who wrote the official numbers can't count.

[Mr March]

Well, if it's any consolation, the anime doesn't show the correct count either and actually shows several different counts across the episodes

So I think we're safe with the official figures.

[azrael]

Here's a thought: The person who drew the lineart was the someone who worked on the model and never saw the specs. Or vice versa.

[Letigre]

Damn, I never noticed the vents before.

That said, scoruing over the drawings again, none of what appears to be venting on the rest of the armor (like the slits on the leg pods) appears elsewhere, the chest and particualrly, the shoulder pods do not seem to have any visible venting.

Here's a thought: The person who drew the lineart was the someone who worked on the model and never saw the specs. Or vice versa.

Maybe, maybe not. The lack of an offical word is rather annoying since they seem to be so detail-oriented otherwise.

Also, if you look closely, the detailing of the two ports on the chest closely match that of the packs on each arm. The the gun barrels seems to be inside the port, what you largely see appears to be an armored housing.

[Mr March]

I'm not really worried about differing missile counts between specs and the art/model. Since the animation itself shows inconsistent missile counts we can accept the official written trivia as clarification on the matter.

The only thing I'm worried about is the location of those four 22mm guns. If those guns were unaccounted for between the creation of the official specs and the creation of the art/models, THAT would be bad. However, since there's rarely been such a weapon discrepancy in Macross (I believe the missile count of the VF-4 Lightning III is the only example), I doubt the issue is a communication error in the creative process. I suppose mistakes do happen but I'm hopeful we're just not receiving all the official information as yet.

I would like to think the torso and forearm ports are the 22mm guns. However, even though they could work in theory, I'm just not entirely convinced they aren't verniers. The official trivia lists 10 x Gobishi Heavy Industries SLE-1B High-maneuverability verniers for the APS-25A/MF25 Armored Pack that I'm still trying to locate. I know there are at least two verniers on the top of each booster section, so that accounts for 4 verniers. But I don't know where the other six are located. It's possible the torso and forearm ports are not weapons or vents, but verniers. If the torso/forearm ports are verniers, that would account for another four. Which means there would only be two verniers left to identify.

Honestly, I can't see those torso/forearm ports as vents for the missiles. The detail and positioning of the ports just seem too important to be vents. I hope the torso/forearm ports are either the verniers or the 22mm guns.

I wonder, if we go back to the animation, is there ever a scene that shows any of those ports doing something? I mean, we only ever saw the big 57 mm beam cannons of the APS-25A/MF25 Armored Pack in action during a VERY brief sequence. Might we have seen some activity from those torso/forearm ports in another brief sequence?

[Letigre]

Could the added two ports (on either side of the 25mm hip guns) on each hip armor section account for four of them? When viewed from the backside, they're shown to be directly on top of a pair of conspicuous canisters. But then they aren't as obvious as the one on top of each booster either.

[Mr March]

Maybe. But I was thinking that the 10 x Gobishi Heavy Industries SLE-1B High-maneuverability verniers are probably meant to be somewhat larger, like the two top mounted verniers on the booster engines of the Armored pack. That's why I was thinking those torso/forearm ports might be verniers, because they are about the same size as the two top verniers mounted on the boosters.

[Letigre]

I figured that as well. Also, annoyingly strangely enough it's alot easier to pick the large verniers out on the Super Pack's boosters.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Letigre

[azrael]

I suspect the verniers are located, 2/booster, 1 on each side of the chest piece, 1 on each hip, and 1 on each arm. The 4 22mm guns are probably located on the hips, behind the hip vernier. There's a picture in the Chronicle where it looks like they are barrels.

[Mr March]

That's sounds about right to me. It makes the most sense and combines the visual details nicely with the official trivia.

[Zinjo]

I was referring to the prickliness and the wings.

The "Wings" could simply be solar collectors... Using natural energy would take some of the power burden off the reactors for daily energy requirements of the Island ships.

[Zinjo]

It would be cool if they were different, but as the series was produced on a tight schedule, I think they spent their time/budget on making the Macross Galaxy look different, and saved money by recycling the gun design (or, inversely, spending more time embelishing the design of the gun ship because they knew the CG model would be used more than once.)

In series, I guess the explanation would be that they were made at roughly the same time.

I'd be more inclined to believe that they used the in universe reasoning that the Galaxy Corp. spent their budget on outfitting the Galaxy with the latest R&D equipment for a vast array of experiments, including ones that would be illegal on Federation (aka NUNS) ships and simply commissioned a basic NMC that they could modify however they liked. From a production standpoint, if you have a completely different Macross type battleship for the Galaxy fleet then the show would have another new Macross ship that would distract from the hero ship "Macross Quarter".

The main difference between the M7 and M13 designs (other than both the in-series and out-of-series passage of time), is that the M13 was designed with a main gun that is able to quickly charge up, and able to fire in a scatter-shot kind of attack (hit multiple targets on many different tangents, and not in one solid blast). You can see the game cut scene either in the game (VF-X2), or on the 20th Anniversary DVD.

That depends on if the Macross 13 was refitted or not. The Mac 7 appears to be a very basic carrier, whereas the Mac 13 has quite a few battleship armaments on it. We see this again in the Mac 25. Was there a re-design for the 13 which was then carried into subsequent Battle Carriers or was the 13 simply a re-fitted NMC that had completed its colony mission and then pressed back into general fleet service?

[Graham]

I suspect the verniers are located, 2/booster, 1 on each side of the chest piece, 1 on each hip, and 1 on each arm. The 4 22mm guns are probably located on the hips, behind the hip vernier. There's a picture in the Chronicle where it looks like they are barrels.

Hip vernier? Which opening are you talking about, the circle-bar?

Just to clarify, are you talking about the hip armour, which covers the engine intake, or the wing root armor, that covers the VF-25's 25mm wing root gun?

On what I call the wing root armor, there are three openings, the front, which is thought to be the opening for the VF-25's 25mm gun, although I'm begining to wonder if the opening actually lines up with the 25mm gun or not. Then there are the two ovals behind it, which based on the line art published in the August HJ and the new Frontier Archieves books, show cylinders on the rear of the armor (behind the ovals), which to me don't look big enough to be guns, but who knows?

Graham

[Mr March]

I can't speak for anyone else but when I speak of the hip, I'm referring to the armored piece with the three ports on it, the armor that covers the 25mm guns on the outer side of the intakes, just below the wing root. I've attached the picture below.

I think the best explanation is that the larger port is a vernier for the Armored pack, which means the standard 2 x 25 mm guns on the VF-25's intakes couldn't be fired when the craft is armored. If the VF-25's standard 2 x 25mm guns can't be fired in Armored configuration, that explains why the Armored pack would feature four additional 22mm guns.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Mr March

[azrael]

Hip vernier? Which opening are you talking about, the circle-bar?

Just to clarify, are you talking about the hip armour, which covers the engine intake, or the wing root armor, that covers the VF-25's 25mm wing root gun?

On what I call the wing root armor, there are three openings, the front, which is thought to be the opening for the VF-25's 25mm gun, although I'm beginning to wonder if the opening actually lines up with the 25mm gun or not. Then there are the two ovals behind it, which based on the line art published in the August HJ and the new Frontier Archieves books, show cylinders on the rear of the armor (behind the ovals), which to me don't look big enough to be guns, but who knows?

Yes I am talking about the Armored parts.

It could be a port to allow the 25mm gun to be used with the Armored pack. But I guess that depends on the artist. In the Chronicle's Tech sheet on the Full Armor (issue #21), there's a picture from a different artist that drew the model lineart. In the Chronicle's picture, those ports on the hips for the 22mm guns that Mr. March pointed out appear to be barrels of some sort, which has be believing that those are the 22mm beam guns. In the Chronicle as well, that artist drew that other port on the hip only slightly bigger so it could be a port to allow the 25mm guns.

I am fairly convinced that the chest ports aren't beam guns at this point. Verniers or vents are a good possibility.

[Graham]

Also convinced that the chest ports are vents or verniers, not beam guns.

[Graham]

From the Frontier Archives book, I've located the likely location of 2 more verniers on the Armoured pack. These are on a previously unknown piece of armour on the outer part of the upper leg, located just below the intake armour. These are not visible on the CG art due to the angle of thd art, but are visible in the lineart & model kit pics. Will post pics on Monday. Home scanner down now.