The computer and electronics super geek thread

[mikeszekely]

Changing topics slightly---BioWare just announced specs for the PC version of Dragon Age. While I much prefer consoles in general, when it comes to RPGs etc, I often feel I miss out on all the mods etc that eventually come out on the PC, so I'm strongly thinking about getting Dragon Age for my PC. That said, I'm thinking about a cheap upgrade--memory:

I have 4 DDR2 slots. Currently using 2 of them, with 1 gig of PC 6400 (800mhz) each, running an EPP at 4-4-4-12 timings. I could buy another 2 identical sticks, and have 4 gigs of 6400, for 35 bucks. Cheapest upgrade. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820145034

Or, I could buy 2, 2GB sticks of PC 8500 (1066hz) and replace the 6400. My motherboard should be well capable of running them at their 5-5-5-15 EPP. Most are 55-85+ bucks depending on which version/brand. My motherboard is 1600mhz FSB capable, which seems to be "recommended" for PC 8500. Plus my motherboard is very capable/accomodating of sending extra voltage to memory---one of the reasons I bought it, so no worries there.

So---is PC8500 worth the extra expense, or is it so subtle it's not worth it? Also---what's the difference between Corsair's cheapest XMS2 PC8500, and their Dominator PC8500, besides price? Both seem to have 5-5-5-15 options. There's several other 4GB PC8500 options---how good is G-skill?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820231166

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820145215

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820104073

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820145214

(recommended video card is 512MB version of 8800GTS---which is slightly better than my 8800GT---but I figure slightly overclocking my 8800GT should be fine, if it's not up to snuff as-is----even spending over $150 won't give THAT big of an improvement--a new card is definitely not worth it at this point performance-wise nor price-wise) But I should up my RAM anyways for Windows7.

Were I in your shoes, I'd just buy one stick of 6400. I've got 3GB of Kingston Hyper X that runs at that speed (I forget the timing thought), and that rated a 5.9 out of 5.9 in Vista, and a 6.5 out of 7.9 in Windows 7. And frankly, that's never not been enough for me. Yeah, if I was running a 64-bit OS when I built this sucker, and yeah, if I did more heavy-duty multi-media editing, maybe, but most apps really don't know what to do with too much memory. It's like there's a point... up to that point, you get big boosts from more RAM, but beyond it, the cost/benefit ratio tapers off.

With a 32 bit OS, as others have mentioned, Windows can't address it all. You're limited to about 4GB, but that includes your videocard's VRAM, which is probably half a gig. If you go the Win 7 route, you can always grab a 64 bit copy, but Windows 7 will probably run more efficiently than Vista in the first place.

[David Hingtgen]

New topic: My virus software has been going nuts lately-----*3* encounters/warnings in the last 18 hours or so of "ie frame" trojan or something similar from various sites. Always an html file itself that's infected. Can't find anything recent about it on the net. Did a bunch of sites get hacked or something? One was a site about cars, one a site about military jets, etc---very "normal/clean" sites that I have been to before.

[eugimon]

could be the ads being run on the site.

[mikeszekely]

New topic: My virus software has been going nuts lately-----*3* encounters/warnings in the last 18 hours or so of "ie frame" trojan or something similar from various sites. Always an html file itself that's infected. Can't find anything recent about it on the net. Did a bunch of sites get hacked or something? One was a site about cars, one a site about military jets, etc---very "normal/clean" sites that I have been to before.

What AV are you using? Not that it's related, but I used AVG for years until I started to get a number of false positives.

Speaking of trouble with sites, is anyone else having trouble getting to Kotaku? Firefox keeps giving me a blank page, and Opera is giving me one it cached from over a week ago. It's the only Gawker site that's giving me any trouble... Lifehacker and Gizmodo are coming up fine.

Edited June 19, 2009 by mikeszekely

[azrael]

could be the ads being run on the site.

Yeh, I've notice lots of ad-sites hosting crap over the past year.

[shiroikaze]

Speaking of trouble with sites, is anyone else having trouble getting to Kotaku?

Kotaku loads up for me, but at a fricking crawl... it takes like almost a minute to have one page fully loaded... Works sorta fine in Firefox for me though.

[mikeszekely]

Kotaku loads up for me, but at a fricking crawl... it takes like almost a minute to have one page fully loaded... Works sorta fine in Firefox for me though.

I guess the problem was on their end, not ours. Looks like it's working normally now.

[David Hingtgen]

I'm using Avast!, and they're not false positives, (well at least 1 for sure was real) since Malware Bytes verified the hit.

[DJ Loe Kee]

could be the ads being run on the site.

i'll third this comment. i heard on another forum that a guy got a virus from an ad that myspace was running.

[David Hingtgen]

Ok, got a new task----new PC for at most $1000, mainly just for surfing, but would like to play Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 decently on a fairly small screen (probably 17in). (yeah, it's hard to build to future specs, but take a guess). If it could still run those games ok without spending a grand, do so. Doesn't need much potential for upgradability nor future-proofing----only upgrade it's likely to ever get is graphics/RAM. It will never be overclocked at all, and will use the stock CPU and graphics coolers.

I'm thinking GTX 260 and an E7600 to start? No idea what mobo, though I like Gigabyte's stuff. Oh yeah--should be a fairly small PC too. No Antec Solo/Sonata cases or anything. Should be a fairly simple case---it's not going to be out on display. (honestly, finding THAT has been the hardest thing so far--if you DON'T want a half-dozen fans and glowing transparent case sides there's not much choice---simple cases tend to be giant all-steel monsters)

Exact parts may very well end up being "what combos are available that week at Newegg" (want to get everything from one place---Newegg or Tigerdirect)---or just buy a complete barebones kit from Tiger.

[Ladic]

Case + PSU = $120

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDet...st=Combo.201728

Motherboard = $120

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128359

CPU = $160

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115037

Memory = $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820145184

Hard Drive = $70

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136218

Video Card = $125

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814131140

DVD = $25

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16827151171

Total = $667

[mikeszekely]

Case + PSU = $120

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDet...st=Combo.201728

Motherboard = $120

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128359

CPU = $160

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115037

Memory = $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820145184

Hard Drive = $70

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136218

Video Card = $125

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814131140

DVD = $25

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16827151171

Total = $667

You may even be able to shave a little more off the mobo, case, and PSU, but I certainly can't fault this list.

[shiroikaze]

You may even be able to shave a little more off the mobo, case, and PSU, but I certainly can't fault this list.

You can also save 2.5% to 3.5% when signing up for http://www.bing.com/cashback/ (previously Live Cashback). Though you won't get your check right away...

It's nice know sites like www.slickdeals.net to help out saving on purchases (or spending more...)

Edited June 20, 2009 by shiroikaze

[David Hingtgen]

I do like that list quite a bit overall, thanks much, just a few tweaks:

1. I'd prefer it not have an E8400, as that's what I have in mine! Purely a pointless envy thing, but the problem is E8200/8300s etc are harder to find, so that's why I was thinking E7600. Or maybe I can buy an E8600 and sell them my E8400 for their new PC. Though it is still true as it was a year ago when it cost more---the E8400 is about the best bang for the buck there is.

2. Case is bigger than preferred. Anything in the 16in by 16in range?

3. That seems a bit cheap for a 4870. I've always used nvidia cards, but I don't really have a preference (nor does who will actually be using the PC) (yes, I'm actually complaining about saving money there----graphics cards will show differences in quality easily IMHO, and shouldn't be skimped on)

4. Bit cheaper mobo? That seems fairly high-end for what's going to be put into it, and Gigabyte seems to have several other P45-based ones.

5. Powersupply is overkill IMHO, probably go with the 500w version of that one.

PS----what's the most reliable, longest-lived hard drive one can get right now? That'd be the best for this PC. Assume it's going to be the PC's only drive, and it should last for many years.

[azrael]

2. Case is bigger than preferred. Anything in the 16in by 16in range?

Then we get into the Micro-ATX sizes. If you want that size, then I can rework some of it. The size of video cards today kinda forces us to pick a mid-ATX cases. The other option is to get a lower-end card, like a 9-series GeForce.

3. That seems a bit cheap for a 4870. I've always used nvidia cards, but I don't really have a preference (nor does who will actually be using the PC) (yes, I'm actually complaining about saving money there----graphics cards will show differences in quality easily IMHO, and shouldn't be skimped on)

4870s are going down in price.

4. Bit cheaper mobo? That seems fairly high-end for what's going to be put into it, and Gigabyte seems to have several other P45-based ones.

Not cheaper than that though.

The lowest P45/P43 board is this guy:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128380

5. Powersupply is overkill IMHO, probably go with the 500w version of that one.

Actually, I would look around for a cheaper one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817182185

PS----what's the most reliable, longest-lived hard drive one can get right now? That'd be the best for this PC. Assume it's going to be the PC's only drive, and it should last for many years.

I've had Seagates last on me but after that whole firmware fiasco, one can never be sure. I've also had some Western Digitals that don't want to die.

[shiroikaze]

I've had Seagates last on me but after that whole firmware fiasco, one can never be sure. I've also had some Western Digitals that don't want to die.

Samsung HDs don't seem to be that bad either.

also, I don't know if it's already used up but Newegg does have a 10% off of hard drives. "EMCHDD10A"

Edited June 20, 2009 by shiroikaze

[mikeszekely]

Then we get into the Micro-ATX sizes. If you want that size, then I can rework some of it. The size of video cards today kinda forces us to pick a mid-ATX cases. The other option is to get a lower-end card, like a 9-series GeForce.

The low-end 9-series, maybe. I have an Antec P182 case, which is larger than most of my friends' mid-towers, and I had to remove the upper hard drive rack to accommodate my ridiculously long 9800GTX+. To the best of my knowledge, ATI's cards have been getting bigger (like nVIDIA's), but they still tend to be smaller than comparable GeForce cards.

Not cheaper than that though.

The lowest P45/P43 board is this guy:

But is a P45 board necessary? Plenty of G41's, including MicroATX sizes, for under $100. Sure, it's got half the RAM limit, but I don't think you're going to put 8GB, let alone 16GB in it, any time soon. Southbridge is the ICH7 instead of the ICH10, but otherwise they're fairly similar.

I've had Seagates last on me but after that whole firmware fiasco, one can never be sure. I've also had some Western Digitals that don't want to die.

I think you're basically fine under a TB. Firmware and other issues for drives larger than a TB seems to be giving most manufacturers a 1-in-6 or so failure rate.

That said, I've traditionally used Seagate and Western Digital drives, with a preference for Western Digital. The hard drive in the link is the hard drive I've got Windows installed on right now. When I did go for a TB drive, my first choice would have been the WD Caviar Black, but only the Greens seem to go on sale for under $100. Because of the firmware thing, I avoided Seagate and went with Hitachi. No problems so far.

[Ladic]

I would not skimp on the PSU, it is after all the most important part of a PC build.

And at 120 for both case and PSU, it is pretty cheap, for a good brand (60 a piece).

Plus if you ever plan to upgrade you Video card, that PSU should be able to handle it.

[DJ Loe Kee]

Then we get into the Micro-ATX sizes. If you want that size, then I can rework some of it. The size of video cards today kinda forces us to pick a mid-ATX cases. The other option is to get a lower-end card, like a 9-series GeForce.

why not go with a 8-series GeForce card?

i have the xfx 8800gts g92 (it comes factory overclocked) but newegg only has the evga 8800gts g92 (i actually wanted an evga card but newegg only had the xfx g92 card when i built my pc last year).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130325

it's barely over $100 and it was $250 when i saw them on newegg last year. the 2 ppl who recommended the g92's to me said that they are really good cards.

the card takes up two slots on the mb so i'm not too sure if it is too big for your needs.

[David Hingtgen]

8800 series is too low IMHO, GTX260/4870 are a decent step up. Not worth paying for as an upgrade from an 8800, but if you're starting from scratch---worth the extra money. Can they fit in a micro-ATX, or will standard ATX be required for them? (and any possible decent future graphics upgrade)

[shiroikaze]

8800 series is too low IMHO, GTX260/4870 are a decent step up. Not worth paying for as an upgrade from an 8800, but if you're starting from scratch---worth the extra money. Can they fit in a micro-ATX, or will standard ATX be required for them? (and any possible decent future graphics upgrade)

An mATX case? Mileage may vary I guess, but I know for sure the Antec mini P180s can hold those huge cards (I think you might need to remove one of the hard drive cages to do that)...

Edited June 21, 2009 by shiroikaze

[Ladic]

I you really want a smaller case that can fit a large video card this is a very good option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811133044

and here is a version without the windows a bit cheaper after the MIR

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811133045

I would not get the Antec P180, I have that case, and while its an awesome case, its also almost exactly the same size of a standard midtower case.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Ladic

[shiroikaze]

I you really want a smaller case that can fit a large video card this is a very good option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811133044

and here is a version without the windows a bit cheaper after the MIR

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811133045

That's kinda awesome! It looks like a really sleek microwave!

@David: If you're still looking for a PSU, there's this OCZ 700W for $49.99 after rebate.

Edited June 21, 2009 by shiroikaze

[Uxi]

DUDE! Please let us know how it goes. I love that phone! I can't wait till it hits Australia.

Hopefully the touch OS is as good as if not better than the 5800 Xpressmusic I got.

This phone rocks. It's 5mp cam and flash have pretty much replaced my point and shoot. Great quality. I routinely run 4-5 apps at a time without any performance hit and have lurked this site more than a few and posted to some other message boards. Great browser, good speed, all the connectivity options and bells and whistles you could ask for. If I could remember my pass here, I'd make a post or two.

pic (not mine):

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/itzj...69/_DSC0042.jpg

and vid that perfectly captures my performance:

[kensei]

This phone rocks. It's 5mp cam and flash have pretty much replaced my point and shoot. Great quality. I routinely run 4-5 apps at a time without any performance hit and have lurked this site more than a few and posted to some other message boards. Great browser, good speed, all the connectivity options and bells and whistles you could ask for. If I could remember my pass here, I'd make a post or two.

pic (not mine):

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/itzj...69/_DSC0042.jpg

and vid that perfectly captures my performance:

Great to hear. All I really wanted to know was if the thing was responsive and usable. It's my backup choice of phone just in case the Satio or Omnia HD doesn't work out so hot.

[shiroikaze]

Question of curiousity: If I partition a hard drive into two parts. The first part holding basically the OS, the latter partition holding programs such as, let's say the games of today. Regardless of how miniscule it is, is there any decrease in performance at all?

[azrael]

Question of curiousity: If I partition a hard drive into two parts. The first part holding basically the OS, the latter partition holding programs such as, let's say the games of today. Regardless of how miniscule it is, is there any decrease in performance at all?

It's actually suppose to be faster for smaller file systems head repositioning. Instead of indexing a MFT the size of a 320 GB hard drive, you can partition off a 100GB and index that faster than a 320GB partition or make the head move less since the reading head only has to access a small area as oppose to a large partition with lots of room to access. I've used this method for years and I've never had a problem with it.

[kensei]

Just wondering, is there a windows utility that reads the output of the Wattage of the PSU of your computer? I really want to know what it's putting out.

Also, I want to get another surge protector for my computer. Now, I have a few powerboards at home, two in fact that I am linking up. Please tell me why i can't use the single wall adaptor surge protectors and plug my powerboards into that, but rather i would have to buy something like these:

http://www.belkin.com/au/IWCatSectionView....ction_Id=201772

[azrael]

Just wondering, is there a windows utility that reads the output of the Wattage of the PSU of your computer? I really want to know what it's putting out.

Wattage monitor? Nope. There are wall outlet monitors. Most motherboard manufacturers package a voltage monitoring software with the motherboard.

Also, I want to get another surge protector for my computer. Now, I have a few powerboards at home, two in fact that I am linking up. Please tell me why i can't use the single wall adaptor surge protectors and plug my powerboards into that, but rather i would have to buy something like these:

Are you trying to daisy-chain your power strips together?

[kensei]

Wattage monitor? Nope. There are wall outlet monitors. Most motherboard manufacturers package a voltage monitoring software with the motherboard.

Voltage sorry. Was not thinking.

Are you trying to daisy-chain your power strips together?

Yeah. Can't think of a reason not to, but just waiting to get told off for doing so.

[DJ Loe Kee]

Just wondering, is there a windows utility that reads the output of the Wattage of the PSU of your computer? I really want to know what it's putting out.

Also, I want to get another surge protector for my computer. Now, I have a few powerboards at home, two in fact that I am linking up. Please tell me why i can't use the single wall adaptor surge protectors and plug my powerboards into that, but rather i would have to buy something like these:

http://www.belkin.com/au/IWCatSectionView....ction_Id=201772

i prefer an ups with a battery backup for my pc.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....ps&name=APC

they're kinda expensive though.

[azrael]

Voltage sorry. Was not thinking.

Check your motherboard manufacturer.

Yeah. Can't think of a reason not to, but just waiting to get told off for doing so.

It's not that you can't. It's more like "you shouldn't". The chance that you may overload the circuit increases if you daisy chain your power, which would cause the circuit breaker to kick in, causing you to lose power to part or all of your home, making you get up off your chair, go down to the switch and turn it back on, hoping nothing blows up when you turn the power back on.

[emajnthis]

i prefer an ups with a battery backup for my pc.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....ps&name=APC

they're kinda expensive though.

agreed, along with what Azrael said. I only have one UPS and it's for my server stuff (server, router, and switch), i'm also lucky enough to have cat5e already run through my house and terminated on a patch panel in my basement so all of that noisy, hot and heavy crap stays in one spot that i never see.

Oh, also, i'm not sure where you work, but i got my UPS from my work as a DRMO item (just the chassis, the battery was expired), and then bought the battery separate. If you know anyone who works in government or government facilities, they throw away UPS' all the time (switches too!).

Edited June 23, 2009 by emajnthis

[Hiriyu]

Just wondering, is there a windows utility that reads the output of the Wattage of the PSU of your computer? I really want to know what it's putting out.

If your mobo manufacturer doesn't have a utility for this, you could try Speedfan (clicky). There are lots of other utilities out there which do the same thing, but so far I'm happiest with Speedfan.

HTH

[Xeros]

Change of topic

WAR IS COMING...

Google to Launch Operating System

Official Google Blog

Edited July 8, 2009 by Xeros